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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    auslander
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  auslander Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:40 pm

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:
    Yes. In Texas, it's always been a Texas accent.

    But my Dad pronounced some words such as "paints" for pants, "aig" for egg, and "bum" for bomb, & those pronunciations came out of Southern East coastal area. Virginia area maybe. It has a certain name, but I can't remember it right now. -- pronunciation passed down from generation to generation.

    and I knew a woman, about my Dad's age, who said "mawning" for morning, and that came out of Mississippi or Alabama.

    Probably not as much as in my Dad's generation.

    I picked up a favorite Mexican slang word: "chingaletta", which was slang for whatever you wanted to call something, if you didn't know the name. . "Hand me that chingaletta." & later realized chinga  is basically like the word f***.  Embarassed
    So I had to drop that one. & I love that word. It just rolls off of the tongue.  Very Happy

    Anglos pick up Mexican words, especially if they're friends with,  date, or marry a Mexican.

    Like one pronounced Ah eey ho, which means something like "Oh shit!"  Very Happy   as best as I remember.

    & others..

    I know I pronounce words like I have a mouth full of molasses. & we drop the last letter on words. goin', leavin', stayin',

    When I moved to my current HOR in Florida some 30 years ago I bought a house in the historic district and at that time the district was full of sweet little old Southern Ladies who kept the old ways going within reason. They spoke in a cultured Southern Accent, very soft and gentle but like you say, my Lady, they dropped the last letter of the words in general. For some reason a lot of the old dears liked me and when I was in country I was often dragooned to their dinners. It was like stepping back 100 years, the servants, the old ladies in their finest, a few of the surviving old gentlemen dressed to the 9's and little old me, also cleaned up and walking on my hind legs. I do speak the cultured dialect well when needed, perhaps that is why the old gals liked me so much, that and I used the by modern standards archaic politeness. To this day I would never dream of addressing Mrs. Easterday up the street from my house as anything but Misz' Easterday, it just wasn't done, just as she would never address me in any way other than my rank and last name. Sadly many of them are now gone, the houses often sold after an 'estate sale' where their descendent's sold off all the hundred and more year old furniture and baubles for a pittance and dumped the house at below market. Figures.

    I'm heading 'home' next month, got to get a new passport. Since the phat putz up north says we are still in orcland, guess he hasn't seen a pic of the flags flying in this AO, I can't get the passport done there and I can't go to orcland to get it for obvious reasons so I've got to return 'home'. I'll tie up the remaining odds and ends and this pilgrimage will probably be the last time I darken their doors. Misz Easterday is still with us and we have kept in contact the old way, by letter. I am expected to dinner a few days after I arrive. Methinks it will be grand as always.
    auslander
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  auslander Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:09 pm

    Mr.Comrade wrote:Video of the most devastating victims of this war, the children. This is a very emotional video

    Now you know why we down here in the South would have fought them and their masters to the bitter end. They'll not do that to our children, our pensioners, our women, our towns, cities and villages. That is why the orc troops did not move from their lagers, not even their vaunted 'spetznaz' in Feodosya. They knew we would kill them, they were told very clearly so.
    Cowboy's daughter
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  Cowboy's daughter Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:51 pm

    auslander wrote:
    Cowboy's daughter wrote:
    Yes. In Texas, it's always been a Texas accent.

    But my Dad pronounced some words such as "paints" for pants, "aig" for egg, and "bum" for bomb, & those pronunciations came out of Southern East coastal area. Virginia area maybe. It has a certain name, but I can't remember it right now. -- pronunciation passed down from generation to generation.

    and I knew a woman, about my Dad's age, who said "mawning" for morning, and that came out of Mississippi or Alabama.

    Probably not as much as in my Dad's generation.

    I picked up a favorite Mexican slang word: "chingaletta", which was slang for whatever you wanted to call something, if you didn't know the name. . "Hand me that chingaletta." & later realized chinga  is basically like the word f***.  Embarassed
    So I had to drop that one. & I love that word. It just rolls off of the tongue.  Very Happy

    Anglos pick up Mexican words, especially if they're friends with,  date, or marry a Mexican.

    Like one pronounced Ah eey ho, which means something like "Oh shit!"  Very Happy   as best as I remember.

    & others..

    I know I pronounce words like I have a mouth full of molasses. & we drop the last letter on words. goin', leavin', stayin',

    When I moved to my current HOR in Florida some 30 years ago I bought a house in the historic district and at that time the district was full of sweet little old Southern Ladies who kept the old ways going within reason. They spoke in a cultured Southern Accent, very soft and gentle but like you say, my Lady, they dropped the last letter of the words in general. For some reason a lot of the old dears liked me and when I was in country I was often dragooned to their dinners. It was like stepping back 100 years, the servants, the old ladies in their finest, a few of the surviving old gentlemen dressed to the 9's and little old me, also cleaned up and walking on my hind legs. I do speak the cultured dialect well when needed, perhaps that is why the old gals liked me so much, that and I used the by modern standards archaic politeness. To this day I would never dream of addressing Mrs. Easterday up the street from my house as anything but Misz' Easterday, it just wasn't done, just as she would never address me in any way other than my rank and last name. Sadly many of them are now gone, the houses often sold after an 'estate sale' where their descendent's sold off all the hundred and more year old furniture and baubles for a pittance and dumped the house at below market. Figures.

    I'm heading 'home' next month, got to get a new passport. Since the phat putz up north says we are still in orcland, guess he hasn't seen a pic of the flags flying in this AO, I can't get the passport done there and I can't go to orcland to get it for obvious reasons so I've got to return 'home'. I'll tie up the remaining odds and ends and this pilgrimage will probably be the last time I darken their doors. Misz Easterday is still with us and we have kept in contact the old way, by letter. I am expected to dinner a few days after I arrive. Methinks it will be grand as always.

    Yes. When I was growing up, it was "Yes Mam; No Mam; Yes Sir; No Sir", and my Grandfather called my mother "Mrs. lastname", and my Mother called him "Mr. lastname". I've seen spouses call each other the same, in public anyway. No disrespecting your elders, men stood in the presence of women, removed their hats, & archaic politeness still remains in Texas, especially with men of my generation.
    JohninMK
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  JohninMK Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:03 am

    Not a surprise

    OSCE Special Envoy for Ukraine Martin Sajdik said that the Contact Group on Ukraine reconciliation has not reached consensus on the withdrawal of weaponry from the line of contact in Donbass so far.

    MINSK (Sputnik) — The Contact Group on Ukraine reconciliation has not reached consensus on the withdrawal of weaponry from the line of contact in Donbass so far, OSCE Special Envoy for Ukraine Martin Sajdik said Tuesday. The security subgroup started working on a draft document on the withdrawal of weapons with a caliber under 100mm in August.

    "The negotiations on the proposed plan of the withdrawal of tanks, artillery with caliber less than 100 mm and 120-mm mortars continued. The sides have not reached agreement on this issue yet," Sajdik told reporters.

    According to him, during the seven-hour talks of the Contact Group representatives, the sides agreed that privacy on the issue was important for possible schedule harmonization, including the sequence of the pullout of weaponry and the verification mechanism.

    He described the group's talks in the capital of Belarus as "an open, positive and constructive discussion." The consultations on arms withdrawal will continue in the coming weeks, he added.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150923/1027371691.html#ixzz3mVlpP4sG
    Erk
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    Post  Erk Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:00 am

    On Tuesday, Poroshenko announced that Ukraine and NATO had signed a joint declaration on strengthening defense and technical cooperation, as well as a roadmap for a partnership between Ukraine and NATO on strategic communications. The program is aimed at supporting Kiev in counteracting “Russian propaganda” and informing the society on what’s happening in Ukraine, Interfax reported.

    The North-Atlantic alliance is also ready to discuss how it can boost Kiev’s military, particularly by potentially providing aid in restoring its naval forces, RIA Novosti reported, citing NATO’s Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg. The NATO official also said that the Alliance is providing advisors to Ukraine’s defense ministry and army general staff, according to TASS.
    http://www.rt.com/news/316237-poroshenko-ukraine-nato-outpost/

    NATO inching it's way into Ukraine.

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    Post  par far Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:06 am

    Erk wrote:
    On Tuesday, Poroshenko announced that Ukraine and NATO had signed a joint declaration on strengthening defense and technical cooperation, as well as a roadmap for a partnership between Ukraine and NATO on strategic communications. The program is aimed at supporting Kiev in counteracting “Russian propaganda” and informing the society on what’s happening in Ukraine, Interfax reported.

    The North-Atlantic alliance is also ready to discuss how it can boost Kiev’s military, particularly by potentially providing aid in restoring its naval forces, RIA Novosti reported, citing NATO’s Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg. The NATO official also said that the Alliance is providing advisors to Ukraine’s defense ministry and army general staff, according to TASS.
    http://www.rt.com/news/316237-poroshenko-ukraine-nato-outpost/

    NATO inching it's way into Ukraine.



    Time to break up Ukraine into pieces, this cannot wait.
    auslander
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    Post  auslander Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:40 am

    Erk wrote:
    On Tuesday, Poroshenko announced that Ukraine and NATO had signed a joint declaration on strengthening defense and technical cooperation, as well as a roadmap for a partnership between Ukraine and NATO on strategic communications. The program is aimed at supporting Kiev in counteracting “Russian propaganda” and informing the society on what’s happening in Ukraine, Interfax reported.

    The North-Atlantic alliance is also ready to discuss how it can boost Kiev’s military, particularly by potentially providing aid in restoring its naval forces, RIA Novosti reported, citing NATO’s Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg. The NATO official also said that the Alliance is providing advisors to Ukraine’s defense ministry and army general staff, according to TASS.
    http://www.rt.com/news/316237-poroshenko-ukraine-nato-outpost/

    NATO inching it's way into Ukraine.


    I figured there was a reason Stoltenberg was in 404 and now we know why. NATO will set up bases in a non member area as they steadily creep towards the borders of RF and defacto make 404 a member. This is not a good event for sure.
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    Post  sepheronx Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:43 am

    Nato cannot accept a member whom has issues with its own territories, hence why Russia is wanting Novorussia to stay part of Ukraine as that very method. Ukraine has territorial issues, and if not, Novorussia will also act as a thorn for nato integration of Ukraine.

    All these agreements being signed and what not are the same BS done during USchenko's time in power. I remember it quite clearly. Only way they can get Ukraine in, is by breaking their own laws in this case, and would cause a shitstorm in the alliance as no one wants to get directly involved in the conflict.

    It is all fondling each other as a way for nato to show Ukraine that they are not forgotten about, even though not much they can do.
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    Post  eehnie Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:30 am

    Sepheronx is right. Ukraine is not and will not be a NATO member while Ukraine has internal issues. This is why Russia want not an official seccession of Novorrussia from Ukraine. While Ukraine has not full control of their nominal territory, Ukraine is done with the NATO and the EU.

    In fact this is only propaganda because no-one will give enough money to Ukraine to restore their Naval Forces. Ukraine has enough work triying to restore their land forces equipment.
    auslander
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    Post  auslander Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:32 am

    sepheronx wrote:Nato cannot accept a member whom has issues with its own territories, hence why Russia is wanting Novorussia to stay part of Ukraine as that very method. Ukraine has territorial issues, and if not, Novorussia will also act as a thorn for nato integration of Ukraine.

    All these agreements being signed and what not are the same BS done during USchenko's time in power. I remember it quite clearly.  Only way they can get Ukraine in, is by breaking their own laws in this case, and would cause a shitstorm in the alliance as no one wants to get directly involved in the conflict.

    It is all fondling each other as a way for nato to show Ukraine that they are not forgotten about, even though not much they can do.

    I disagree, this will lead to permanent 'training bases' in 404 first, then they will quietly, I would say before year's end, make the bases just that, NATO military bases in orcland to 'defend the training cadre'. One has to give NATO/US credit for their never ending resourcefulness in getting around the rules to do what they want to do.
    Erk
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    Post  Erk Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:34 am

    sepheronx wrote:Nato cannot accept a member whom has issues with its own territories, hence why Russia is wanting Novorussia to stay part of Ukraine as that very method. Ukraine has territorial issues, and if not, Novorussia will also act as a thorn for nato integration of Ukraine.

    All these agreements being signed and what not are the same BS done during USchenko's time in power. I remember it quite clearly.  Only way they can get Ukraine in, is by breaking their own laws in this case, and would cause a shitstorm in the alliance as no one wants to get directly involved in the conflict.

    It is all fondling each other as a way for nato to show Ukraine that they are not forgotten about, even though not much they can do.

    The article I quoted was about NATO providing aid to Ukraine, not membership.
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:48 pm

    Erk wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Nato cannot accept a member whom has issues with its own territories, hence why Russia is wanting Novorussia to stay part of Ukraine as that very method. Ukraine has territorial issues, and if not, Novorussia will also act as a thorn for nato integration of Ukraine.

    All these agreements being signed and what not are the same BS done during USchenko's time in power. I remember it quite clearly.  Only way they can get Ukraine in, is by breaking their own laws in this case, and would cause a shitstorm in the alliance as no one wants to get directly involved in the conflict.

    It is all fondling each other as a way for nato to show Ukraine that they are not forgotten about, even though not much they can do.

    The article I quoted was about NATO providing aid to Ukraine, not membership.

    Legendary NATO aid, we all seen results back in Debaltsevo... lol1

    Sepheronx is 100% right. The moment some NATO clown starts to even theoretically consider actually setting up anything in 404 entire Donbass will turn into Kursk in less than 6 hours.
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    Post  higurashihougi Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:10 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:Legendary NATO aid, we all seen results back in Debaltsevo... lol1

    Sepheronx is 100% right. The moment some NATO clown starts to even theoretically consider actually setting up anything in 404 entire Donbass will turn into Kursk in less than 6 hours.

    We can see how Afghan and Irak armed forces rejected NATO standard, and the U.S. had to bough Russian weapons to provide them Cool

    Any sane militarymen who experienced Russian-style weapons will surely say a NO to NATO standard.
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    Post  Erk Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:29 pm

    At least 200 people wearing camouflage and masks stormed the local administration building in the city of Kharkov, eastern Ukraine, local media said. The perpetrators are alleged to be members of the radical Azov battalion.

    The masked men reportedly clashed with police and security forces at the city’s administration building. Those who have entered the building have also reportedly used tear gas, the Ukrainian 112 channel is saying.

    The masked activists were seen holding flags with the insignia of the radical Azov Battalion, which is accused of committing numerous human rights violations in Eastern Ukraine, according to international watchdogs.
    http://www.rt.com/news/316266-masked-men-storm-kharkov/
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    Post  higurashihougi Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:57 pm

    Yeah, Kyiv declared that it won't pay the debt anymore... but not apply to Russian debt  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil

    http://www.rt.com/business/316280-ukraine-debt-payment-default/

    Ukraine says it will halt paying off its external debt on Wednesday, facing the risk of a technical default. The list of non-payments doesn’t include the $3 billion owed to Russia. The debt to Moscow is due in December which Russia has insisted it wants in full.

    According to a document published on the website of the Ukrainian government, the restructuring applies to the $3 billion Eurobonds purchased by Russia. However, payments on them have not been suspended.

    The list included seven issues of Ukrainian government bonds.

    "We are talking about restructuring $15 billion, agreed by 13 of 14 Ukrainian creditors. Russia didn’t accept the haircut and, therefore, its $3 billion is not included,” said an expert polled by Russian business daily Kommersant.
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:18 pm


    ''Ukraine Likely to Face Civil War in West of the Country - German Media''

    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150923/1027393780.html





    ''Ukrainian Journalist Resigns, Joins Independence Supporters''

    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150923/1027390043.html
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    Post  sepheronx Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:54 pm

    auslander wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Nato cannot accept a member whom has issues with its own territories, hence why Russia is wanting Novorussia to stay part of Ukraine as that very method. Ukraine has territorial issues, and if not, Novorussia will also act as a thorn for nato integration of Ukraine.

    All these agreements being signed and what not are the same BS done during USchenko's time in power. I remember it quite clearly.  Only way they can get Ukraine in, is by breaking their own laws in this case, and would cause a shitstorm in the alliance as no one wants to get directly involved in the conflict.

    It is all fondling each other as a way for nato to show Ukraine that they are not forgotten about, even though not much they can do.

    I disagree, this will lead to permanent 'training bases' in 404 first, then they will quietly, I would say before year's end, make the bases just that, NATO military bases in orcland to 'defend the training cadre'. One has to give NATO/US credit for their never ending resourcefulness in getting around the rules to do what they want to do.

    None of that will matter though, cause if Ukraine isnt a nato member, then the nato bases are opened for an attack and nato could not intervene as they werent supposed to be there in the first place. If US does try to pull this though, regardless, then I imagine Russia will recognize Novorussia existence, which would flare up the area as others from regions occupied by Ukraine will probably see this as their opportunity. Russia isnt showing their hands yet. If I thought up these ideas, I think Russian authorities did as well, plus dozen more ideas too.
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:58 pm

    Kiev cranking up the future war fighting investment.

    The United States and Poland will help to improve the fighting capability of the Ukrainian armed forces with new armored vehicles and UAVs, Ukrainian media reported on Wednesday.

    Ukraine’s state-owned arms manufacturer Ukroboronprom has signed a number of contacts with America’s Textron Systems and Poland’s WB Electronics companies for the joint design and production of war drones and modernization of the country’s armored vehicles, the Kiev-based weekly newsmagazine Korrespondent reported on Wednesday. As part of an agreement signed with Textron Systems at the Arms and Security-2015 International Trade Fair in Kiev, the two firms will work together to radically upgrade the Humvee armored fighting vehicles and in thestart production of new tanks and AFV’s for the Ukrainian military.

    Poland's WB Electronics company has agreed to make available to Ukraine’s Antonov aircraft designers their latest knowhow designs for the production of a new tactical drone for the Ukrainian Air Force.

    "The new projects are meant to supply the Ukrainian armed forces with modern weapons, including advanced UAV’s and heavy armor,” the Ukroboronprom’s press-service said in a statement. Last week Ukroboronprom shipped a record 35 artillery systems to the armed forces, while the Kiev Tank Factory increased its annual output by a hefty four times, Korrespondent reported.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150923/1027405177/us-poland-ukraine-arms.html#ixzz3mZdvm0Yx
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:03 pm

    Looks like the local elections have been postponed 4 months.

    MOSCOW, September 23. /TASS/. The self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DPR and LPR respectively) have chosen February 21 as the date for holding local elections in line with Ukraine’s legislation, LPR leader Igor Plotnitsky said on Wednesday. "The date for holding elections has been determined by the Minsk-2 deal," Plotnitsky said. "If Ukraine stops sabotage and imitation and immediately goes ahead with the Minsk-2 implementation, it will approximately be this date. The package of measures should be implemented step by step: a special status, amnesty, and a reform of the Constitution and a law on elections negotiated by the sides."

    "We have considered all the procedural timeframes required by Ukraine’s laws — the procedure of amendments in the constitution, Rada’s regulations and timeframes for announcing and then preparing elections. So the date fell on February 21," he said.

    Plotnitsky said Donbas "treated laws and regulations of Ukraine with respect." "However, they [Ukraine’s government] have taken it in as an ultimatum," LPR leader went on to say. "But our proposals contain just requirements written in the Minsk-2 agreements. Ukraine sealed the deal. So does [President Petro] Poroshenko happen to believe the Minsk deal is an ultimatum which he himself signed?" "The logic is quite contorted," he said. "I feel that Petro Alekseyevich [Poroshenko’s patronymic] should stop worrying, calm down and carefully consider our proposals." "Ukraine has declared an ultimatum to itself," Plotnitsky said. "We don’t understand why Ukraine’s officials have perceived our proposal to hold elections on February 21 as an ultimatum. On the contrary, we are showing a path to a compromise."

    On Tuesday, the LPR envoy at the Minsk talks of the Contact Group resolving the conflict in Donbas, Vyacheslav Deinego, said that on that day the self-proclaimed republics had submitted to the Contact Group an adequate timeframe for implementation of political provisions of the Minsk deal, which would help secure the settlement of political issues in Donbas.

    "We have prepared a schedule with an adequate timeframe for implementing each political point of the package of measures to break the impasse. It was drafted based on the current legislation of Ukraine and the regulation of the Verkhovna Rada and also the norms of the OSCE’s Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights (ODIHR)," Deinego said noting that the DPR and LPR had suggested to Kiev that local elections should be held on a new date, February 21.
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    Post  sepheronx Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:17 pm

    Donetsk republic to withdraw from Minsk peace deal if Kiev attempts to join NATO — leader
    http://tass.ru/en/world/823159

    Does this also mean same for Lugansk as well? Cause that territory seems quiet as of late but I bet they are not eager about NATO as well.

    But this does confirm my predictions if NATO is attempted in Ukraine.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:11 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Donetsk republic to withdraw from Minsk peace deal if Kiev attempts to join NATO — leader
    http://tass.ru/en/world/823159

    Does this also mean same for Lugansk as well? Cause that territory seems quiet as of late but I bet they are not eager about NATO as well.

    But this does confirm my predictions if NATO is attempted in Ukraine.

    I suspect that if they try to induct Ukraine in to NATO fully, you may very well see the civil war spread to Kharkov, Mariupol, and eventually towards Odessa. If NATO wants to induct Ukraine, they'll have to induct a country that's land-locked, with no ports. But then Ukraine may very well disintegrate before it's ever inducted....Nothing will be more ironic than a NATO puppet state experiencing Balkanization!Twisted Evil
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    Post  sepheronx Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:12 pm

    That is why NATO is not acting quick.  They know it can get much worst.
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    Post  sepheronx Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:28 pm

    Foreign Volunteers Fight for Kiev in Donbass Violating Minsk Agreement

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150923/1027414255/croatian-volunteer-fights-for-ukrainian-army-violates-minsk-agreement.html#ixzz3ma0y7Dxb

    Gee, where is the condemnation from the western nitwits?
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    Post  auslander Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:54 pm

    sepheronx wrote:That is why NATO is not acting quick.  They know it can get much worst.

    I stand by my prediction. NATO/US were not successful with Krim and Sevastopol but they will not stop, they want to ring Russia with bases and if needs be they will keep the populace of 404 under control one way or another for the safety of their coming bases. There are already some NATO, read US, advisors down to rota level with certain orc units and they've been extant since before the Debaltsyevo Debacle. The half day stand down during the Debaltsyevo assault was to let them leave, them and some other EU types who should not have been there. They were allowed to leave the cauldron with the clothes on their backs and their automat, absolutely nothing else, hence the brand new radar tracking devices left in place, cased. No big deal on that, rumor has it that Mother already had some but I would bet a few someones got a thumbs down in their next FitRep.

    NATO will pull the mission creep gig until they have what they want in 404 and it won't take them long to do it, I would say before Christmas 404 will have a much more considerable presence than they have now and now is not small.
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    Post  sepheronx Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:59 pm

    Then it would all be unnoficial and leaving them up for attack. And if Novorussia gets wind of it, minsk2 would be done and fighting would commence. Any dead nato soldier would not spark a response from nato itself as they were not officially supposed to be there and they will simply say "volunteers" like Russia. While Novorussia will end up expanding and gaining independence. Nato then have their base in a whatever is remaining of that shitty country.

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