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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Neutrality
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    Post  Neutrality Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:40 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Now that I think about it, what would be US and Ukraine success to splitting apart Russia? Even though it seems impossible due to cultural connections between Russians from west and Russians from east (since they are same people), there seems to be a never ending supply of Russians willing to cater to the west.  As well, Russian government seems to be sitting on its collective arses regarding about dealing with US activity in Russia. I know they are attempting through disbanding NGO's or bringing them out to light, but they barely scratched the surface with that. Add in, they have yet to force out the US ambassador and its various staff when they are caught having meetings with 5th columnists prior to elections.

    If they dont act, then it could end up as a reality. But it wont be how US and kiev expect it.  I imagine it eould end up more federalized with more power to Siberia and alike, while retaining their Russianess.

    But, if the federal goverment does their jobs properly, then they can stamp this all out early and less dirty.

    By letting the project "Banderastan" succeed.

    And it will never happen. The situation with Crimea actually showed that people want to be with Russia instead of the opposite. There's no need to force the US Ambassador out of Russia either. If he or his bosses try anything, he'll know that there's a giant shadow of the Russian intelligence community on him, following his every move and planning 10 steps ahead. Navalny needs to worry about his credibility now because of that briliant video. Perhaps these so-called oppositioners will finally realize that the best course of action in Russia is to form a fruitfuil dialogue with the current leadership, without any influence from abroad. Zhirinovsky and Zyuganov are the opposition and the Kremlin does listen to them. Hell, Putin even holds meetings with them when there's a situation.
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    Post  sepheronx Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:43 pm

    kvs wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Now that I think about it, what would be US and Ukraine success to splitting apart Russia? Even though it seems impossible due to cultural connections between Russians from west and Russians from east (since they are same people), there seems to be a never ending supply of Russians willing to cater to the west.  As well, Russian government seems to be sitting on its collective arses regarding about dealing with US activity in Russia. I know they are attempting through disbanding NGO's or bringing them out to light, but they barely scratched the surface with that. Add in, they have yet to force out the US ambassador and its various staff when they are caught having meetings with 5th columnists prior to elections.

    If they dont act, then it could end up as a reality. But it wont be how US and kiev expect it.  I imagine it eould end up more federalized with more power to Siberia and alike, while retaining their Russianess.

    But, if the federal goverment does their jobs properly, then they can stamp this all out early and less dirty.

    There are many of them but they have no critical mass.   Unlike Ukraine, Russia has no analogue of the Banderatards.   The 3% liberast core is a joke
    and they need the USA to literally wipe their bums for them.   Any attempt to organized armed thugs such as Right Sector in Russia is failing outright
    and the Russian government is not sitting on its ass in this regard.   They are intercepting weapons, recruiters and other activity.   That they
    let Navalny hobnob with US Embassy drones shows that they are not stupid.   They kill two birds with one stone: in the eyes of the Russian 97%
    majority he outs himself as a paid foreign agent and at the same time the FSB can monitor all the tentacles that the US has in Russia.  

    You are right. But they will need to upkeep and increase funding for FSB and other agencies dealing with these issues, to stamp out thug groups. Funny that there are Right sector people in Russia, but then again, there are useful idiots everywhere.

    With that said, I dont even know if the liberal groups are 3%. In the 90's, they had double digit popularity (something like 15%). But I read that Navalny at best can garner something like 0.1% popularity. Maybe 1% for RPR-Paranbas party. The other liberal party in Russia are apparently rabid anti west.

    Parties that garner the most popularity seem to be United Russia (obviously), Fair Russia, and Communist party.

    But, still scary how many people are willing to easily be purchased. The blunders of the US does make the jobs of the FSB easier, but there is always room for failure and if the CIA do get 1 through, it could be a disaster for Russia. So ousting them entirely is much safer. Heck, just limiting embassy to 3 staff members will greatly reduce risks.

    But only Venezuela seems to be willing to do that.
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    Post  kvs Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:01 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Now that I think about it, what would be US and Ukraine success to splitting apart Russia? Even though it seems impossible due to cultural connections between Russians from west and Russians from east (since they are same people), there seems to be a never ending supply of Russians willing to cater to the west.  As well, Russian government seems to be sitting on its collective arses regarding about dealing with US activity in Russia. I know they are attempting through disbanding NGO's or bringing them out to light, but they barely scratched the surface with that. Add in, they have yet to force out the US ambassador and its various staff when they are caught having meetings with 5th columnists prior to elections.

    If they dont act, then it could end up as a reality. But it wont be how US and kiev expect it.  I imagine it eould end up more federalized with more power to Siberia and alike, while retaining their Russianess.

    But, if the federal goverment does their jobs properly, then they can stamp this all out early and less dirty.

    There are many of them but they have no critical mass.   Unlike Ukraine, Russia has no analogue of the Banderatards.   The 3% liberast core is a joke
    and they need the USA to literally wipe their bums for them.   Any attempt to organized armed thugs such as Right Sector in Russia is failing outright
    and the Russian government is not sitting on its ass in this regard.   They are intercepting weapons, recruiters and other activity.   That they
    let Navalny hobnob with US Embassy drones shows that they are not stupid.   They kill two birds with one stone: in the eyes of the Russian 97%
    majority he outs himself as a paid foreign agent and at the same time the FSB can monitor all the tentacles that the US has in Russia.  

    You are right. But they will need to upkeep and increase funding for FSB and other agencies dealing with these issues, to stamp out thug groups. Funny that there are Right sector people in Russia, but then again, there are useful idiots everywhere.

    With that said, I dont even know if the liberal groups are 3%. In the 90's, they had double digit popularity (something like 15%). But I read that Navalny at best can garner something like 0.1% popularity. Maybe 1% for RPR-Paranbas party.  The other liberal party in Russia are apparently rabid anti west.

    Parties that garner the most popularity seem to be United Russia (obviously), Fair Russia, and Communist party.

    But, still scary how many people are willing to easily be purchased.  The blunders of the US does make the jobs of the FSB easier, but there is always room for failure and if the CIA do get 1 through, it could be a disaster for Russia. So ousting them entirely is much safer.  Heck, just limiting embassy to 3 staff members will greatly reduce risks.

    But only Venezuela seems to be willing to do that.

    I get where you are coming from. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. I use the 3% liberast core figure but they manage to hoodwink about another 12%
    into joining them in the past. I think this 12% sucker fraction has really dropped now and I will not believe any poll result which claims that they have
    15% or more support. If Putin is at 88% then there are 12% who are not in favour of him but these include people who think he is too soft on the west.
    A simplistic apportioning of the fringe element gives the pro-west faction about 6% of which I think only 3% are Navalny style 5th columnists.
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    Post  sepheronx Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:07 pm

    I dont know where the claim for support comes from, since second party in terms of votes are the communist with Just (or fair, whetever) Russia gaining third. These were the last elections.
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    Post  Khepesh Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:35 pm

    Pushilin has said that everything is fine, Purgin is fine, it is only some affair about Alexandrov who is on the run. Pushilin says Purgin is fine, not Purgin saying he is fine, Purgin is not seen or heard, only the man who replaced him. Breaking news! Himmler says that Ernst Rohm is fine Rolling Eyes
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    Post  sepheronx Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:39 pm

    So NAF is giving up? Or what are you trying to convey?  If so, good thing Russia isnt fighting for it.

    Let them sort their own shit out.  Just place a massive wall to prevent Ukrainians from getting in or out freely, and let them sort their own crap out.  While Russia rebuilds itself and eventually Ukrainians will demand similar living standards to Russians.

    After a while, Ukraine will get even worst as it cannot trade with its major neighbour and no one else will buy their crap.

    Let this also be a lesson to Russia to take better care of its friends so to prevent this issue happening elsewhere.
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    Post  Khepesh Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:47 pm

    sepheronx wrote:So NAF is giving up? Or what are you trying to convey?  If so, good thing Russia isnt fighting for it.

    Let them sort their own shit out.  Just place a massive wall to prevent Ukrainians from getting in or out freely, and let them sort their own crap out.  While Russia rebuilds itself and eventually Ukrainians will demand similar living standards to Russians.

    After a while, Ukraine will get even worst as it cannot trade with its major neighbour and no one else will buy their crap.

    Let this also be a lesson to Russia to take better care of its friends so to prevent this issue happening elsewhere.
    In which case you have no objections against a VSN offensive at some stage in the future as they will simply be "sorting out their own crap"
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    Post  Bolt Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:59 pm

    Interesting interview with the vice commander of Prizrak brigade (former Mozgovoy's bridage)



    For those who don't speak Russian, several points:

    - He thinks right now "Russian"/separatist propaganda went down on the level of Ukrainian propaganda, which means - in the shitter.
    - Nobody can't really tell how many Ukrainians were killed in action during fighting near Debalcevo. they didn't had enough free time to make a list of the bodies they've found. At least 23 corpses were found at Novogrigorievka. there were not a lot of POWs during that campaign, as a lot of Ukrainians managed to retreat, however their retreat was disorganized and chaotic.
    - He swears that there aren't any real Russian officers or soldiers in their brigade, and he didn't see any during all his time on Donbass (10 months). There are a lot of Russian volunteers in their brigade, he himself is from Siberia for example, but all are either civilians like himself or ex military. There are ~600 men in his brigade.
    - He also tells that although Ukraine has more vehicles, men and planes, and they can breakthrough in some area, Ukrainians understand that Russia won't let them succeed on bigger scale and will intervene, "as it was done in August" - basically, he confirms Russia has intervened during Illovajsk.
    - He says there are a lot of dissatisfaction with both DNR and LNR governments among usual soldiers and civilians.
    - he is not as romantic about the whole deal as was before, but he doesn't want to go back, as he sees a lot of problems but at the same time, "somebody has to solve them and why not me?". he also mentioned he came to Donbass to help after he read some Ukrainian comments after Odessa's massacre.
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    Post  sepheronx Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:00 pm

    OK. But if things were not so bad for NAF, then why give up? Or are they not giving up and youbare simply getting worked up over two people?
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    Post  Khepesh Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:38 pm

    sepheronx wrote:OK. But if things wetr not so bad for NAF, then why give up? Or are they not giving up and youbare simply getting worked up over two people?
    I am not getting "worked up", I made that post tounge in cheek, that is why the reference to Rohm. It was meant to be a subtle reference to real breaking news I am not going to post here as clearly it will be unwelcome, if true.
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:09 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:OK. But if things wetr not so bad for NAF, then why give up? Or are they not giving up and youbare simply getting worked up over two people?
    I am not getting "worked up", I made that post tounge in cheek, that is why the reference to Rohm. It was meant to be a subtle reference to real breaking news I am not going to post here as clearly it will be unwelcome, if true.
    I sincerely hope that is an empty threat. We need all the valuable sources we can get. Perhaps some here are going through the same stresses that are happening at the front due to lack of anything to do. Desertions next? Smile

    Incidentally, I find it amazing that all is still basically quiet on the front. If only we had a fly on the wall in the Merkel discussion as it seems to stem from then. She must have really put his balls/wallet in the crusher.
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    Post  sepheronx Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:11 pm

    Please post the news.
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    Post  victor1985 Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:19 pm

    what is happen with novorussia? who knows? maibe they just are tired up and dont feel like they wanna fight ? maibe just ucrainians make them be like that? maibe they just saw they dont have a chance in front of all the huge powers in the world?
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    Post  Khepesh Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:30 pm

    IF the implications become reality, which I doubt, then it will be very unpleasant. However, where is Purgin, his wife and Alexei Alexandrov junior, his father is also Alexei. The Alexandrov on the run is not, as was thought, junior, but senior. None of them have been seen since Friday after the incident at Uspenka border crossing. They are reported to have been arrested on the way to Donetsk, and it is said at Makeevka, and that Alexandrov senior escaped arrest. Where this information originates is a mystery, but officials in DNR have stated that Alexandrov senior is on the run. Today it seems that MGB have denied knowledge of where Purgin, his wife and Alexandrov junior are. There were rumors late on Friday that Purgin's wife was at home, or on her way to meet Purgin, or Purgin on his way to meet her. Likely all stuffing. The basic facts are that these four people have not been seen since Friday. It may be that Alexandrov senior really is on the run, the other three may appear tomorrow safe, but that they have not appeared since Friday and MGB do not know where they are is disturbing IF true. http://riafan.ru/398453-ministerstvo-gosbezopasnosti-dnr-purgina-u-nas-net-i-ne-byilo/
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:34 pm

    victor1985 wrote:what is happen with novorussia? who knows? maibe they just are tired up and dont feel like they wanna fight ? maibe just ucrainians make them be like that? maibe they just saw they dont have a chance in front of all the huge powers in the world?
    They are under strategic guidance as to what their objectives are and it doesn't come from Kiev. As with all defensive situations they are just waiting for something to happen and getting on with life as best they can until their future is decided. You can be certain that, regardless of what is going on politically, down in the emplacements they are ready to give better than they get.
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:38 pm


    Folks seem to be forgetting one important tidbit: for the time being shellings have stopped.

    With Merkel putting kibosh on UAF offensive Porky is now stuck with ~50000-90000 angry nazis and shanghaied conscripts on the front and economic and societal collapse at home with nothing to distract the hungry, freezing sheep with just two months before onset of winter.  

    If ukrops do go for kamikaze-run then it's NAF counteroffensive all the way, but otherwise just watch rest of ukropistan and enjoy the season 2 of the show.

    With Novo civilian bodycount finally in the zero this is perfect time to grab some popcorn.

    Without war the very founding and defining idea behind concept of Ukraine has been erased from existence. Let the nature take it's course now.

    This is hard, complicated and very, very long battle that is not fought only on the frontlines. NAF boys earned a break , let ukrops do their job for them for a while and stop panicking.

    Russia has so far invested a lot, risked a lot, put it's money where it's mouth is and will definitely not leave the NAF behind, that much we know by now. Year ago there were foundations for logical doubt and I was first one to doubt back then, but after this last year there is simply no place for doubt anymore.


    Last edited by PapaDragon on Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  auslander Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:38 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:OK. But if things wetr not so bad for NAF, then why give up? Or are they not giving up and youbare simply getting worked up over two people?
    I am not getting "worked up", I made that post tounge in cheek, that is why the reference to Rohm. It was meant to be a subtle reference to real breaking news I am not going to post here as clearly it will be unwelcome, if true.
    I sincerely hope that is an empty threat. We need all the valuable sources we can get. Perhaps some here are going through the same stresses that are happening at the front due to lack of anything to do. Desertions next? Smile

    Incidentally, I find it amazing that all is still basically quiet on the front. If only we had a fly on the wall in the Merkel discussion as it seems to stem from then. She must have really put his balls/wallet in the crusher.

    Last I heard was there are increasing calls to 'show us Purgin' from the locals. If he is not shown there might be an ugly incident, according to rumor. Rumor also has it that there is a bit of annoyance concerning the breakup of the small demonstration yesterday in Donetsk in support of Purgin. What the two fat suits and the big, albeit unarmed, men should remember, again according to rumor, is there are a whole lot of armed men and women in DPR who are seasoned combat veterans, many of whom will take a very dim view of a return to the 'old ways' of business and government. It may well be good advice for the budding new PTB to remember 1917-1918. History has a nasty habit of repeating itself, both the good and the bad.

    I would aver that when Mr. Poroshenko (dripping sarcasm can be disguised in formal polite language, in case no one noticed) met Mutti Merkel (sorry, I never felt any love for Gestapo) she shoved her hand down his skivvies and I sincerely doubt the fondle was amorous. So much for his 'I can't control the volunteer battalions' protestations of the last 18 months.
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    Post  zg18 Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:44 pm

    First part video 00-1:45 sec , Right Sector goes into action , second part Donbass troops inspect remains of same RS convoy.....

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    Post  Khepesh Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:47 pm

    auslander wrote:

    Last I heard was there are increasing calls to 'show us Purgin' from the locals. If he is not shown there might be an ugly incident, according to rumor. Rumor also has it that there is a bit of annoyance concerning the breakup of the small demonstration yesterday in Donetsk in support of Purgin. What the two fat suits and the big, albeit unarmed, men should remember, again according to rumor, is there are a whole lot of armed men and women in DPR who are seasoned combat veterans, many of whom will take a very dim view of a return to the 'old ways' of business and government. It may well be good advice for the budding new PTB to remember 1917-1918. History has a nasty habit of repeating itself, both the good and the bad.  

    I would aver that when Mr. Poroshenko (dripping sarcasm can be disguised in formal polite language, in case no one noticed) met Mutti Merkel (sorry, I never felt any love for Gestapo) she shoved her hand down his skivvies and I sincerely doubt the fondle was amorous. So much for his 'I can't control the volunteer battalions' protestations of the last 18 months.
    I think that I and everybody had simply assumed that Alexandrov junior was in the basement and Purgin and wife possibly under house arrest, or at least been told to stay out of public and not make statements. But if report about what MGB say is true, then this all becomes interesting. I cannot find any report or reference of any type that indicates that these four have been seen or heard of since Friday.
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:50 pm

    zg18 wrote:First part video  00-1:45 sec , Right Sector goes into action , second part Donbass troops inspect remains of same RS convoy.....

    First minute repeated. Dry roads then wet. Where did the gun go from the back of the technical one wonders?
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    Post  franco Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:56 pm

    The truth finally comes out on why the UAF cannot defeat the NAF in battle;

    http://southfront.org/comsoukrainian/

    Another curious story is about the 3 soldiers from the 79th Airborne deciding to go and visit the Marines down in the Crimea... would wonder if they might have been some of the soldiers who decided to stay in the UAF and were on their way back to visit their old buddies who had switched to the Russian Armed Forces.

    Saturday:

    On the morning of September 5 has learned of the disappearance of three soldiers 79 separate airmobile brigade: senior soldier Yurova AI and soldiers Orlenko AA and Mekshuna KM During search operations, it was found that the above soldiers in the night of 04.09.2015 on 05/09/2015 replaced with an observation post, arrived at the location, dressed in civilian clothes (sneakers, shorts and a vest), and, according to their colleagues, they went to swim in the dam, which is located on the territory adjacent to the illegally occupied territory of Crimea. As it turned out later at night in the area drove 2 car (UAZ and Ural) from the illegally occupied territory of Crimea and probably illegally detained our soldiers.


    Sunday:

    To call the missing on the border with the Crimea paratroopers failed. This was the TV channel "112 Ukraine" the officer said the press service of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Alexey Mazepa.
    "All of their belongings and weapons left in the military unit, so I do not think they wanted to make some kind of change. It is my personal opinion. We tried to call them, but the phones are out of range of the network."


    Monday:

    Soldiers of the Russian FSB border department detained three soldiers in the Crimea, the 79th Brigade APU who are suspected of illegally crossing the state border of the Russian Federation. The incident occurred on the technological causeway across the lake Siwash.
    According to the FSB, during the arrest of Ukrainian troops were not in possession of any documents.
    - Soldiers of Ukraine said that the decision to communicate with the Russian Marines, which they have repeatedly seen on the other coast of the Sivash, they appeared the day before during the consumption of alcoholic beverages. Waking up the next morning and not having other activities, Ukrainian paratroopers took with watermelon, slice of fat and alcohol, which is purchased from local residents, and went to "fraternize", - stated in the official press service of the border department of the FSB.
    According to the testimony of detainees paratroopers, they crossed the border states exclusively for peaceful purposes. They wanted to "eat watermelon with bacon, drink vodka, complain of hard service in the Ukrainian armed forces."
    Russian border guards have decided to bring Ukrainian military personnel to administrative responsibility for violation of the state border of the Russian Federation and the transfer of detainees border authorities of Ukraine.
    Currently, Ukrainian paratroopers feel good, express a desire to return as soon as possible to the Ukraine, at the same time expressing concern that there awaits them a severe punishment.
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    Post  victor1985 Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:58 pm

    [quote="JohninMK"][quote="victor1985"]what is happen with novorussia? who knows? maibe they just are tired up and dont feel like they wanna fight ? maibe just ucrainians make them be like that? maibe they just saw they dont have a chance in front of all the huge powers in the world? [/quote]
    They are under strategic guidance as to what their objectives are and it doesn't come from Kiev. As with all defensive situations they are just waiting for something to happen and getting on with life as best they can until their future is decided. You can be certain that, regardless of what is going on politically, down in the emplacements they are ready to give better than they get.[/quote]
    where from then if is not from kiev? washintong? moscow ? berlin ? paris bruselles bucharest where from where from?
    zg18
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    Post  zg18 Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:31 pm

    Ukrainian military started to deploy WW2 ZiS-3 gun mod. 1942

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 14 COU8P0zXAAAZu9c
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:38 pm

    victor1985 wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    victor1985 wrote:what is happen with novorussia? who knows? maibe they just are tired up and dont feel like they wanna fight ? maibe just ucrainians make them be like that? maibe they just saw they dont have a chance in front of all the huge powers in the world?
    They are under strategic guidance as to what their objectives are and it doesn't come from Kiev. As with all defensive situations they are just waiting for something to happen and getting on with life as best they can until their future is decided. You can be certain that, regardless of what is going on politically, down in the emplacements they are ready to give better than they get.
    where from then if is not from kiev? washintong? moscow ? berlin ? paris bruselles bucharest where from where from?
    Given that this is a Russian named site and you have been here for a while I am really not sure if your question is a wind up or not.
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    Post  auslander Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:48 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    auslander wrote:

    Last I heard was there are increasing calls to 'show us Purgin' from the locals. If he is not shown there might be an ugly incident, according to rumor. Rumor also has it that there is a bit of annoyance concerning the breakup of the small demonstration yesterday in Donetsk in support of Purgin. What the two fat suits and the big, albeit unarmed, men should remember, again according to rumor, is there are a whole lot of armed men and women in DPR who are seasoned combat veterans, many of whom will take a very dim view of a return to the 'old ways' of business and government. It may well be good advice for the budding new PTB to remember 1917-1918. History has a nasty habit of repeating itself, both the good and the bad.  

    I would aver that when Mr. Poroshenko (dripping sarcasm can be disguised in formal polite language, in case no one noticed) met Mutti Merkel (sorry, I never felt any love for Gestapo) she shoved her hand down his skivvies and I sincerely doubt the fondle was amorous. So much for his 'I can't control the volunteer battalions' protestations of the last 18 months.
    I think that I and everybody had simply assumed that Alexandrov junior was in the basement and Purgin and wife possibly under house arrest, or at least been told to stay out of public and not make statements. But if report about what MGB say is true, then this all becomes interesting. I cannot find any report or reference of any type that indicates that these four have been seen or heard of since Friday.

    Agreed, hence the thinly cloaked threats making the rounds. I would think it would be in the best interests of all concerned for Purgin et al to be produced in public as soon as possible. Executions thinly disguised as assassinations won't fly this time and if such has happened retribution may well be swift.

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