Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Cowboy's daughter
    Cowboy's daughter

    Posts : 1169
    Points : 1208
    Join date : 2015-04-24
    Location : Texas

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:40 am

    Rodinazombie wrote:According to the live feed above, the OSCE mission is planning to leave donetsk city at 6am, we all know that rats flee when it gets too hot, so if true this may well be an indicator of things to come if their withdrawal isnt something that was pre-planned.


    Might well be.
    JohninMK
    JohninMK

    Posts : 7790
    Points : 7873
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:43 am

    Chersonesus wrote:

    ATO wounded are being taken as far as Odessa for treatment. I wonder how much spare capacity the Ukrop medical system has.
    I was reading and now can't find the link, that the US has supplied at least one major field hospital, complete with loads of medicines and other stuff with replacement supplies for the next 18 months. This is one area in which a lot of NATO expertise has been deployed. Treatment of the injured should be totally different to last time.
    Cowboy's daughter
    Cowboy's daughter

    Posts : 1169
    Points : 1208
    Join date : 2015-04-24
    Location : Texas

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:48 am

    Another video


    Sounds artillery: the area w / station, 22:58. Donetsk. 08/12/2015


    Cowboy's daughter
    Cowboy's daughter

    Posts : 1169
    Points : 1208
    Join date : 2015-04-24
    Location : Texas

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:53 am

    & this, if it's to be trusted...


    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 CMPPKxaXAAAWySq
    sepheronx
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7090
    Points : 7358
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 31
    Location : Canada

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:00 am

    Rodinazombie wrote:Heres the full report from vkontakte

    Vkontakte wrote:"VSU launched an attack across the front line. The fighting goes across the front line. The main areas of clashes are Volnovaha, Lugansk, Mariupol, Avdeevka, Yasinovataya and Gorlovka. MAT launched an attack around 18:00. The first clash occurred in Adveevke. The fighting began immediately, using heavy artillery, small arms and large. The siloviki are not particularly aim, as under fire hit Kiev region of Donetsk. The shells lay on the street Vasil, Timur and Kurchatov. Are fixed entering the houses. It is also one of the shells flew up to Makeyevka, falling on the street Metallurgical.

    The enemy continues to pull forces to the area Starognatovki. Exploration DNI fixed columns promotion APU toward White Kamenka, after which it was dealt artillery strike. At security forces heavy losses. About two dozen guns moved from Mariupol to Sahanku and October. At the same time strengthen their own positions VSU in the area Kurakhovo. It seems that the enemy fears the army troops break the NPT, which has once again defeated the security forces in the district of Donetsk airport for Marinka.

    Less than an hour ago, we were attacked settlements and Spartak Yasinovataya. The shelling was carried out by the artillery krupnostvolnoy Avdeevka. About 20 minutes ago from Avdeevka also came under fire district Putilovki shell hit the house at Grove Street Putilovskaya 12.

    At the moment, the militia emerged a meet Ukrainian troops from the settlement in October. Fights were fastened under Gnutova and Pavlopolem. DNR Army launched a counterattack at Gorlovka Avdeevka. Retreating, the VSU is applied randomly shelling residential areas Avdeevka. Locals report about arriving in Chervonogvardeyku.

    On the territory of the LC are fighting in the village of Lugansk and Popasnaya. Both sides are actively used all kinds of weapons.

    Just under a flared Chillmere and granite. Militia managed to take control of the height of 209.6. Shelling continues to suffer Gorlovka.

    Thus, the fighting intensified across the front line, which indicates that the VSU transferred to the active phase of the offensive. "

    If you understand russian, follow the link and get live updates to the situation

    http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/2335394.html

    So if I am reading this right, at Donetsk Airport and soldiers coming through from Mariupol got wiped out by NAF? If so, good.
    Khepesh
    Khepesh

    Posts : 1667
    Points : 1736
    Join date : 2015-04-22
    Location : Ахетатон и Уасет

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Khepesh on Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:01 am

    Rodinazombie wrote:

    Khepesh, have you seen this video before or is it fresh?

    Reportedly its grads being used outside donetsk, unsure whose exactly as it just says под донецком.

    To be honest with just a black screen, thuds of shells and dogs howling it could be anywhere, but it says it is makeevka and it is reported they having incoming
    Khepesh
    Khepesh

    Posts : 1667
    Points : 1736
    Join date : 2015-04-22
    Location : Ахетатон и Уасет

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Khepesh on Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:06 am

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:& this, if it's to be trusted...
    I would give maybe 60% possibility they are true, which is better than last year when I would give them 25%

    This could all still be very heavy provocation, but if it's true about OSCE, then probably we have a war now.
    avatar
    Rodinazombie

    Posts : 577
    Points : 607
    Join date : 2015-04-22

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Rodinazombie on Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:09 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    Rodinazombie wrote:Heres the full report from vkontakte

    Vkontakte wrote:"VSU launched an attack across the front line. The fighting goes across the front line. The main areas of clashes are Volnovaha, Lugansk, Mariupol, Avdeevka, Yasinovataya and Gorlovka. MAT launched an attack around 18:00. The first clash occurred in Adveevke. The fighting began immediately, using heavy artillery, small arms and large. The siloviki are not particularly aim, as under fire hit Kiev region of Donetsk. The shells lay on the street Vasil, Timur and Kurchatov. Are fixed entering the houses. It is also one of the shells flew up to Makeyevka, falling on the street Metallurgical.

    The enemy continues to pull forces to the area Starognatovki. Exploration DNI fixed columns promotion APU toward White Kamenka, after which it was dealt artillery strike. At security forces heavy losses. About two dozen guns moved from Mariupol to Sahanku and October. At the same time strengthen their own positions VSU in the area Kurakhovo. It seems that the enemy fears the army troops break the NPT, which has once again defeated the security forces in the district of Donetsk airport for Marinka.

    Less than an hour ago, we were attacked settlements and Spartak Yasinovataya. The shelling was carried out by the artillery krupnostvolnoy Avdeevka. About 20 minutes ago from Avdeevka also came under fire district Putilovki shell hit the house at Grove Street Putilovskaya 12.

    At the moment, the militia emerged a meet Ukrainian troops from the settlement in October. Fights were fastened under Gnutova and Pavlopolem. DNR Army launched a counterattack at Gorlovka Avdeevka. Retreating, the VSU is applied randomly shelling residential areas Avdeevka. Locals report about arriving in Chervonogvardeyku.

    On the territory of the LC are fighting in the village of Lugansk and Popasnaya. Both sides are actively used all kinds of weapons.

    Just under a flared Chillmere and granite. Militia managed to take control of the height of 209.6. Shelling continues to suffer Gorlovka.

    Thus, the fighting intensified across the front line, which indicates that the VSU transferred to the active phase of the offensive. "

    If you understand russian, follow the link and get live updates to the situation

    http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/2335394.html

    So if I am reading this right, at Donetsk Airport and soldiers coming through from Mariupol got wiped out by NAF?  If so, good.


    Its quite a challenge to decypher machine translations at the best of time, but in any case id say dont make any conclusions yet, we dont even know the scale of fighting yet, let alone how it has concluded.

    On the other hand, i think we all know in general the conclusion of any major battle, and thats that the ukies will lose.


    avatar
    Rodinazombie

    Posts : 577
    Points : 607
    Join date : 2015-04-22

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Rodinazombie on Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:10 am

    Khepesh wrote:
    Cowboy's daughter wrote:& this, if it's to be trusted...
    I would give maybe 60% possibility they are true, which is better than last year when I would give them 25%

    This could all still be very heavy provocation, but if it's true about OSCE, then probably we have a war now.

    What provocation? I cant see CDs post for some reason...
    Cowboy's daughter
    Cowboy's daughter

    Posts : 1169
    Points : 1208
    Join date : 2015-04-24
    Location : Texas

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:16 am

    Rodinazombie wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:
    Cowboy's daughter wrote:& this, if it's to be trusted...
    I would give maybe 60% possibility they are true, which is better than last year when I would give them 25%

    This could all still be very heavy provocation, but if it's true about OSCE, then probably we have a war now.

    What provocation? I cant see CDs post for some reason...

    I had trouble getting it to post. It was there but wouldn't show up. It finally did.

    It's coming off of this twitter, You can see it here. It's by pete john 53 min ago, and starts out "osce to leave all out war started by ukies"

    https://twitter.com/shinobi22427722
    Khepesh
    Khepesh

    Posts : 1667
    Points : 1736
    Join date : 2015-04-22
    Location : Ахетатон и Уасет

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Khepesh on Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:22 am

    There is not a great deal of hard info on the cassad ticker, and probably it's a bit too early for definitive news to come in that has been verified. So far of interest is about artillery fire being exchanged at Mariupol, but about any ground attacks nothing, and nothing more about what happens at Stilo. Everything else is "normal" but all on one night, which of course is not "normal".

    Edit: very cautiously I will suggest that there is the possibility of an assault on ukrops at Dzerzhinsk based on some veiled speech, but sometimes people are a bit too veiled so it may not be so.

    On the ticker - A probably pre-prepared statement from Givi essentially saying that ukrops have thrown Minsk away, have attacked since last Sunday, and that VSN have moved up to the front and soon there will be battle. That was probably made hours ago. But now Givi has said VSN moved to the front in force and no secret,  what prompted my "popcorn alert" last night was that massive columns of tanks had moved thro northern Donetsk. A friend in Kirovsky watched from his balcony and eventually gave up counting there were so many. And today the same.

    Again on the ticker - residents of Lisichansk hear volleys of artillery and Grad from the south east. They are well behind ukrops front lines so if they can hear this then perhaps all hell has broke lose along the northern front. military maps shows nothing on that part of the front, yet.
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 9352
    Points : 9434
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:50 am


    I guess now we know for a fact that good ole' Frankie Templeton gave Yaresko and Ukrainians the shaft on that loan payment delay they were so eager to get.

    Hence the commencement of operation ''Grorious Kamikaze''... Twisted Evil
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 9352
    Points : 9434
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:55 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    Chersonesus wrote:

    ATO wounded are being taken as far as Odessa for treatment. I wonder how much spare capacity the Ukrop medical system has.
    I was reading and now can't find the link, that the US has supplied at least one major field hospital, complete with loads of medicines and other stuff with replacement supplies for the next 18 months. This is one area in which a lot of NATO expertise has been deployed. Treatment of the injured should be totally different to last time.

    Given the UAF track record, those 18 months sound quite optimistic to me...
    KoTeMoRe
    KoTeMoRe

    Posts : 3990
    Points : 4007
    Join date : 2015-04-22
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:59 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    Chersonesus wrote:

    ATO wounded are being taken as far as Odessa for treatment. I wonder how much spare capacity the Ukrop medical system has.
    I was reading and now can't find the link, that the US has supplied at least one major field hospital, complete with loads of medicines and other stuff with replacement supplies for the next 18 months. This is one area in which a lot of NATO expertise has been deployed. Treatment of the injured should be totally different to last time.

    Given the UAF track record' those 18 months sound quite optimistic to me...

    My worries are that UAF won't fare any better than last time, if the Crimean Rumour is to be believed. This time It will be Tide Wind Time, aka Tsunami.
    avatar
    Rodinazombie

    Posts : 577
    Points : 607
    Join date : 2015-04-22

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Rodinazombie on Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:59 am

    At least tonights actions are following the usual pattern so far:

    Heavy barrage by ukies
    Attack by ukies
    Counter fire from VSN
    Ukies blame VSN for escalation of hostilities.

    Still to come....

    OSCE pin points arty fire from rebels yet is unable to find evidence of ukie shelling
    US state department is disappointed at russia not sticking to the minsk agreement and calls for more support in order to preserve democracy.
    KoTeMoRe
    KoTeMoRe

    Posts : 3990
    Points : 4007
    Join date : 2015-04-22
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:24 am

    Lel did they banned Ruthenius again?
    sepheronx
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7090
    Points : 7358
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 31
    Location : Canada

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:01 am

    Rodinazombie wrote:At least tonights actions are following the usual pattern so far:

    Heavy barrage by ukies
    Attack by ukies
    Counter fire from VSN
    Ukies blame VSN for escalation of hostilities.

    Still to come....

    OSCE pin points arty fire from rebels yet is unable to find evidence of ukie shelling
    US state department is disappointed at russia not sticking to the minsk agreement and calls for more support in order to preserve democracy.

    I think it is about time someone points out to US on media, that it was Ukraine who ran out of the Minsk agreement at recent meetings. And then also question OSCE and provide evidence of Ukraines shelling and demand, on live TV, for their response. Funny, that recently it was OSCE that was getting hit by Ukrainian military and they are saying nothing of it?  Are they that eager to die to just create a lie?

    If OSCE flees, it is only for the better for both Russia and Novorussia. At that point, they don't have to handle their lies and bullshit.
    Cowboy's daughter
    Cowboy's daughter

    Posts : 1169
    Points : 1208
    Join date : 2015-04-24
    Location : Texas

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:22 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Lel did they banned Ruthenius again?

    Yes. (I went to check.)

    O.M.G., I heard from DonCity!! I'd sent her a pvt message, and she replied a long msg, with info and photos.

    I sent her another one inviting her to come here and join the forum. I really, really, really hope she does.

    She says she's fine. I hope she'll come and post the info she shared with me, and the photos, on this forum.

    She did say that where she lives "those killed ....at last count: 100 civilians, 50 soldiers, 60 people were lost in)."

    & I'll share this:
    Thanks, I'm fine. We are still in the rear. The movement of equipment across our city significantly reduced. Sounds of gunfire barely audible. Sometimes I hear shelling when Gorlovka. In my town everyday life continues. wrote:

    I forgot to look and see what day she posted this to me.

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 9352
    Points : 9434
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:29 am

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Lel did they banned Ruthenius again?

    Yes. (I went to check.)

    O.M.G., I heard from DonCity!! I'd sent her a pvt message, and she replied a long msg, with info and photos.

    I sent her another one inviting her to come here and join the forum. I really, really, really hope she does.

    She says she's fine. I hope she'll come and post the info she shared with me, and the photos, on this forum.

    She did say that where she lives "those killed ....at last count: 100 civilians, 50 soldiers, 60 people were lost in)."

    & I'll share this:

    I forgot to look and see what day she posted this to me.


    Good to hear about DonCity, hope she joins us here. Nice work contacting her CD. thumbsup

    What about Ruthenius? Where did they ban him from?
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 9352
    Points : 9434
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:32 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    Chersonesus wrote:

    ATO wounded are being taken as far as Odessa for treatment. I wonder how much spare capacity the Ukrop medical system has.
    I was reading and now can't find the link, that the US has supplied at least one major field hospital, complete with loads of medicines and other stuff with replacement supplies for the next 18 months. This is one area in which a lot of NATO expertise has been deployed. Treatment of the injured should be totally different to last time.

    Given the UAF track record' those 18 months sound quite optimistic to me...

    My worries are that UAF won't fare any better than last time, if the Crimean Rumour is to be believed. This time It will be Tide Wind Time, aka Tsunami.

    Perhaps, but they still need to attack heavy NAF defences in WWI conditions, as in, ground offensive with no air cover.

    Tall order for anyone...
    KoTeMoRe
    KoTeMoRe

    Posts : 3990
    Points : 4007
    Join date : 2015-04-22
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:35 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Cowboy's daughter wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Lel did they banned Ruthenius again?

    Yes. (I went to check.)

    O.M.G., I heard from DonCity!! I'd sent her a pvt message, and she replied a long msg, with info and photos.

    I sent her another one inviting her to come here and join the forum. I really, really, really hope she does.

    She says she's fine. I hope she'll come and post the info she shared with me, and the photos, on this forum.

    She did say that where she lives "those killed ....at last count: 100 civilians, 50 soldiers, 60 people were lost in)."

    & I'll share this:

    I forgot to look and see what day she posted this to me.


    Good to hear about DonCity, hope she joins us here. Nice work contacting her CD. thumbsup

    What about Ruthenius? Where did they ban him from?

    From Dat Other Place.
    Cowboy's daughter
    Cowboy's daughter

    Posts : 1169
    Points : 1208
    Join date : 2015-04-24
    Location : Texas

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:59 am

    Thanks, PapaDragon. I hope we see her soon!
    BKP
    BKP

    Posts : 474
    Points : 483
    Join date : 2015-05-02

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  BKP on Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:04 am

    Pretty interesting and fairly lengthy piece in Counterpunch today:

    Ukrainians are Voting With Their Feet Against War and Economic Disaster
    Roger Annis, 08/12/15

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/12/ukrainians-are-voting-with-their-feet-against-war-and-economic-disaster/

    There's a few different things in there. The first is about some new apps widely consulted by draftable Ukie males to avoid getting publicly shang-hai'd for use as canon fodder in Donbass by ubiquitous, roving government goon squads. Obviously, the ones "recruited" in this manner are going to make for some shitty, ultra-unmotivated troops.

    Another section discusses the various official "waves" or "recruitment drives." They've been generally dismal, as has been reported before. However, the 5th one was perhaps somewhat less so. However, I'm not familiar with the source he quotes for the stats, so can't vouch for their veracity. And, of course, it's Ukraine, so... *cough*.

    This is what I found most interesting, however:

    According to several reports received by New Cold War.org, many Ukrainian men, joined by their spouses in some cases, have taken refuge in the two regions which the Kyiv regime’s ‘ATO’ has failed to conquer—Crimea and Donbas. This is ironic because many of these people are strident, pro-Maidan nationalists who supported the February 2014 coup.

    Crimea is a preferred destination over Russia for nationalists to flee for a variety of reasons.

    For one, it is relatively easy to flee there. Apart from very lengthy queues, there are no formal barriers to entry to Crimea from Ukraine.

    Two, nationalists can console themselves that, according to their myths and beliefs, and according to official Ukrainian government policy, they have not left Ukraine at all. Crimea is considered by them as “Ukrainian” territory. No doubt, many of those fleeing to Crimea also hope that the myth of Crimea as Ukrainian territory will shield from the wrath of their fellow nationalists and the wrath of whatever government is in power when and if they return home.

    Thirdly, and this will come as a surprise to those who take Western media propaganda as good coin, pro-Ukrainian nationalists have freedom of expression in Crimea. Here is a part of a report received by New Cold War.org from a correspondent in Ukraine who recently returned from Crimea:

    A lot of Maidan nationalists (especially of the middle class) write and post from Thailand, India, Turkey and other countries, calling upon Ukrainians at home to “defend the country” while they live comfortably abroad.

    As for the children of our rich businessmen and officials living abroad, there are a lot of jokes circulating on social media and in online media in Ukraine of how these “volunteer battalions” abroad are bravely defending Ukraine from “Russian aggression”… as they write from Paris and London. The brave writers have trouble pointing to evidence of Russian soldiers in their midst, but they soldier on in defending Europe from the Russian threat they say exists.

    In Crimea, I met many Ukrainian nationalists who come from western Ukraine and Kyiv. They wear symbolic Ukrainian dress and carry national flags and badges. No one touches them so long as they don’t provoke the local people.

    I noted in speaking to some of them that they are angry with Petro Poroshenko. According to them, the “lost territories” (Crimea and Donbas) should be retaken (and the local populations deported to Russia). But not by themselves, they explain, because they say they are the “national elite” that is needed for the future resurrection of Ukraine. (End report citation.)

    If true, they might make a perfect 5th column to provide the necessary tinder. Just send in some agents provocateurs and stir up conflict. Then, on cue, the Orwellian Western MSM dutifully lie and say that these are the "true Crimeans, viciously oppressed by Russian thugs," and turn them into the casus belli US warmongers seem to be longing for. Maybe I'm paranoid, but allowing those assholes in does not strike me as a good idea. But, who knows, maybe they're just a bunch of cowardly Maidan jumpers who talk a lot but do f**k all except flee to live in sleeping bags, otherwise they would've enlisted, right?  

    BTW, has armed conflict restarted?
    KoTeMoRe
    KoTeMoRe

    Posts : 3990
    Points : 4007
    Join date : 2015-04-22
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:08 am

    BKP wrote:Pretty interesting and fairly lengthy piece in Counterpunch today:

    Ukrainians are Voting With Their Feet Against War and Economic Disaster
    Roger Annis, 08/12/15

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/12/ukrainians-are-voting-with-their-feet-against-war-and-economic-disaster/

    There's a few different things in there. The first is about some new apps widely consulted by draftable Ukie males to avoid getting publicly shang-hai'd for use as canon fodder in Donbass by ubiquitous, roving government goon squads. Obviously, the ones "recruited" in this manner are going to make for some shitty, ultra-unmotivated troops.

    Another section discusses the various official "waves" or "recruitment drives." They've been generally dismal, as has been reported before. However, the 5th one was perhaps somewhat less so. However, I'm not familiar with the source he quotes for the stats, so can't vouch for their veracity. And, of course, it's Ukraine, so... *cough*.

    This is what I found most interesting, however:

    According to several reports received by New Cold War.org, many Ukrainian men, joined by their spouses in some cases, have taken refuge in the two regions which the Kyiv regime’s ‘ATO’ has failed to conquer—Crimea and Donbas. This is ironic because many of these people are strident, pro-Maidan nationalists who supported the February 2014 coup.

    Crimea is a preferred destination over Russia for nationalists to flee for a variety of reasons.

    For one, it is relatively easy to flee there. Apart from very lengthy queues, there are no formal barriers to entry to Crimea from Ukraine.

    Two, nationalists can console themselves that, according to their myths and beliefs, and according to official Ukrainian government policy, they have not left Ukraine at all. Crimea is considered by them as “Ukrainian” territory. No doubt, many of those fleeing to Crimea also hope that the myth of Crimea as Ukrainian territory will shield from the wrath of their fellow nationalists and the wrath of whatever government is in power when and if they return home.

    Thirdly, and this will come as a surprise to those who take Western media propaganda as good coin, pro-Ukrainian nationalists have freedom of expression in Crimea. Here is a part of a report received by New Cold War.org from a correspondent in Ukraine who recently returned from Crimea:

    A lot of Maidan nationalists (especially of the middle class) write and post from Thailand, India, Turkey and other countries, calling upon Ukrainians at home to “defend the country” while they live comfortably abroad.

    As for the children of our rich businessmen and officials living abroad, there are a lot of jokes circulating on social media and in online media in Ukraine of how these “volunteer battalions” abroad are bravely defending Ukraine from “Russian aggression”… as they write from Paris and London. The brave writers have trouble pointing to evidence of Russian soldiers in their midst, but they soldier on in defending Europe from the Russian threat they say exists.

    In Crimea, I met many Ukrainian nationalists who come from western Ukraine and Kyiv. They wear symbolic Ukrainian dress and carry national flags and badges. No one touches them so long as they don’t provoke the local people.

    I noted in speaking to some of them that they are angry with Petro Poroshenko. According to them, the “lost territories” (Crimea and Donbas) should be retaken (and the local populations deported to Russia). But not by themselves, they explain, because they say they are the “national elite” that is needed for the future resurrection of Ukraine. (End report citation.)

    If true, they might make a perfect 5th column to provide the necessary tinder. Just send in some agents provocateurs and stir up conflict. Then, on cue, the Orwellian Western MSM dutifully lie and say that these are the "true Crimeans, viciously oppressed by Russian thugs," and turn them into the casus belli US warmongers seem to be longing for. Maybe I'm paranoid, but allowing those assholes in does not strike me as a good idea. But, who knows, maybe they're just a bunch of cowardly Maidan jumpers who talk a lot but do f**k all except flee to live in sleeping bags, otherwise they would've enlisted, right?  

    BTW, has armed conflict restarted?

    It doesn't work like that. Krym albeit at 2 million+ is yet a very little place. Things are aknoxledged pretty fast.
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Guest on Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:37 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    Chersonesus wrote:

    ATO wounded are being taken as far as Odessa for treatment. I wonder how much spare capacity the Ukrop medical system has.
    I was reading and now can't find the link, that the US has supplied at least one major field hospital, complete with loads of medicines and other stuff with replacement supplies for the next 18 months. This is one area in which a lot of NATO expertise has been deployed. Treatment of the injured should be totally different to last time.

    Given the UAF track record' those 18 months sound quite optimistic to me...

    My worries are that UAF won't fare any better than last time, if the Crimean Rumour is to be believed. This time It will be Tide Wind Time, aka Tsunami.
    Poroshenko's handlers don't want to give Russia an irrefutable reason to come in and ruin all their hard work. But with that said, it isn't the first time Kiev has tried to get Russia actively involved in the conflict. The Ukrops looked poised to invade Krim quite a few times already. With all the political upheaval going on Kiev who knows who is holding the chains anymore, or if Pork and co. decided to stop listening to their handlers.

    Sponsored content

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:59 pm