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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

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    Karl Haushofer

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    Post  Karl Haushofer Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:42 pm

    Project Canada wrote:Back to topic

    http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-turning-economic-basket-case-breadbasket-074220586.html

    It think it's foolish to think that Ukraine would magically turn into Europe's breadbasket when most European farmers are having a difficult time selling their produce after Russia's embargo, and besides why would they buy Ukrainian produce instead of their own? There's just too much wishful thinking in this article imo

    Ukraine has the most fertile land in Europe (if not the world) and an ideal climate for farming, and lots of cheap workforce. For companies like Monsanto Ukraine is a goldmine.

    The West loves that it got this land instead of Russia.
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    Post  Karl Haushofer Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:47 pm

    Historically speaking Russia losing Ukraine is unprecedented. No great power has voluntarily given up it's most fertile break basket without a war.
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    Post  kvs Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:50 pm

    Back in 2008 NATO was not actively trying to start WWIII to save its sorry a** from the looming depression. Now it is
    openly trying to entice Russia to intervene militarily in the Donbas. Clearly something has changed. And that would be
    the level of desperation in NATO. NATO's credit bubble economy is running out of fresh inputs for its Ponzi scheme foundation
    and that is deadly serious. Nobody should have any delusions about the current situation. There will be no peace.

    So Russia needs to crank up nuclear warhead production and deployment. If NATO wants a war, it should face the certainty
    of being annihilated.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 11 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Flagship Victory Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:52 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Project Canada wrote:Back to topic

    http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-turning-economic-basket-case-breadbasket-074220586.html

    It think it's foolish to think that Ukraine would magically turn into Europe's breadbasket when most European farmers are having a difficult time selling their produce after Russia's embargo, and besides why would they buy Ukrainian produce instead of their own? There's just too much wishful thinking in this article imo

    Ukraine has the most fertile land in Europe (if not the world) and an ideal climate for farming, and lots of cheap workforce. For companies like Monsanto Ukraine is a goldmine.

    The West loves that it got this land instead of Russia.

    That's right. Ukraine had close to half of the USSR's might. Ukraine always had the best Soviet military equipment. Even Tu-160s and nukes! The aim of dissolving the USSR was to pit Ukraine against Russia because Ukraine is a big powerful country having a big population.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:56 pm

    Putin and those traitors Zackarchenko and Plonitsky must think this war is a game for their entertainment while they sit in comfy rooms. They must enjoy watching people getting killed every single day. Politicians like them are sickos. Twisted Evil They do not want this war to end because they love watching people getting killed every single day.

    Bravo to people of Donbas for tourching OSCE's damn cars. cheers

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/reuters-four-osce-cars-torched-in-separatist-east-ukraine-395366.html


    Last edited by Flagship Victory on Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Karl Haushofer Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:58 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:

    That's right. Ukraine had close to half of the USSR's might. Ukraine always had the best Soviet military equipment. Even Tu-160s and nukes! The aim of dissolving the USSR was to pit Ukraine against Russia because Ukraine is a big powerful country having a big population.

    The West did not dissolve the USSR. The Kremlin dissolved the USSR. The West was just witnessing the event and could not believe it's own eyes watching those Kremlin morons destroy the empire that the Tsars spent centuries of building. I bet they were celebrating with wine and laughter in Washington and London watching those idiots Gorbachev and Yeltsin destroy centuries worth of Russian heritage.

    Yeah, the West stepped into Ukraine with their NGO's after the Kremlin destroyed the USSR. The hatred of Russia in Ukraine might be largely "thanks" to these NGO's.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:01 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:The West did not dissolve the USSR. The Kremlin dissolved the USSR. The West was just  witnessing the event and could not believe it's own eyes watching those Kremlin morons destroy the empire that the Tsars spent centuries of building. I bet they were celebrating with wine and laughter in Washington and London watching those idiots Gorbachev and Yeltsin destroy centuries worth of Russian heritage.

    Yeah, the West stepped into Ukraine with their NGO's after the Kremlin destroyed the USSR. The hatred of Russia  in Ukraine might be largely "thanks" to these NGO's.

    Technically, the presidents of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus unilaterally dissolved the USSR after they arrested the general secretary Gorbachev and put him under house arrest in Yalta.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belavezha_Accords


    Last edited by Flagship Victory on Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Karl Haushofer Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:01 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:The West did not dissolve the USSR. The Kremlin dissolved the USSR. The West was just  witnessing the event and could not believe it's own eyes watching those Kremlin morons destroy the empire that the Tsars spent centuries of building. I bet they were celebrating with wine and laughter in Washington and London watching those idiots Gorbachev and Yeltsin destroy centuries worth of Russian heritage.

    Yeah, the West stepped into Ukraine with their NGO's after the Kremlin destroyed the USSR. The hatred of Russia  in Ukraine might be largely "thanks" to these NGO's.

    Technically, the presidents of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus unilaterally dissolved the USSR after they arrested the general secretary Gorbachev.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belavezha_Accords

    And the whole thing was initiated from Moscow. Without the events in Moscow the USSR might still be intact.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:04 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:And the whole thing was initiated from Moscow. Without the events in Moscow the USSR might still be intact.

    Correct. The USSR was not beaten by war. The USSR was beaten by treachery.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:06 pm

    Ukraine's farming is its strength. Ukraine's population was like 55 million in 1991. Now it's under 40 million. Ukraine's prices are low and Europeans can buy up Ukrainian foods at almost no cost.

    http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-turning-economic-basket-case-breadbasket-074220586.html
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:12 pm

    Project Canada wrote:Back to topic

    http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-turning-economic-basket-case-breadbasket-074220586.html

    It think it's foolish to think that Ukraine would magically turn into Europe's breadbasket when most European farmers are having a difficult time selling their produce after Russia's embargo, and besides why would they buy Ukrainian produce instead of their own? There's just too much wishful thinking in this article imo

    Riiiiiight.... Rolling Eyes

    Certain country called SFR Yugoslavia was described as European breadbasket for decades by it's braindead politicians.

    Google it if you want to hear how that fairy tale ended... lol1
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    Post  Project Canada Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:45 pm

    A good article about the present NATO-Russia conflict in Ukraine oblast, Russian federation russia


    US-Russia Standoff: Washington Wants 'Open Conflict or Cold War'

    The United States hardliners appear to be dragging the country to a point of no return when only two scenarios with regard to Russia will remain possible, a stalemate or a catastrophe, warns foreign affairs expert Patrick L. Smith.

    "Either we are on the near side of open conflict between two great powers, accidental or purposeful and probably but not necessarily on Ukrainian soil, or we are in for a re-rendering of the Cold War that will endure as long as the original," Smith asserted.

    Ukraine is at the heart of this process.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150809/1025561057.html#ixzz3iKxj3k1h
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    Post  Flagship Victory Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:28 pm

    Project Canada wrote:A good article about the present NATO-Russia conflict in Ukraine oblast, Russian federation russia


    US-Russia Standoff: Washington Wants 'Open Conflict or Cold War'

    The United States hardliners appear to be dragging the country to a point of no return when only two scenarios with regard to Russia will remain possible, a stalemate or a catastrophe, warns foreign affairs expert Patrick L. Smith.

    "Either we are on the near side of open conflict between two great powers, accidental or purposeful and probably but not necessarily on Ukrainian soil, or we are in for a re-rendering of the Cold War that will endure as long as the original," Smith asserted.

    Ukraine is at the heart of this process.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150809/1025561057.html#ixzz3iKxj3k1h

    Russia tries to freeze the conflict in Ukraine like in Moldova and Georgia. Ukraine is no Moldovia or Georgia. Ukraine is much bigger and more powerful. Without peacekeepers, the war cannot freeze.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19 - Page 11 Empty How The Cold War Was Won

    Post  calripson Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:08 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:

    That's right. Ukraine had close to half of the USSR's might. Ukraine always had the best Soviet military equipment. Even Tu-160s and nukes! The aim of dissolving the USSR was to pit Ukraine against Russia because Ukraine is a big powerful country having a big population.

    The West did not dissolve the USSR. The Kremlin dissolved the USSR. The West was just  witnessing the event and could not believe it's own eyes watching those Kremlin morons destroy the empire that the Tsars spent centuries of building. I bet they were celebrating with wine and laughter in Washington and London watching those idiots Gorbachev and Yeltsin destroy centuries worth of Russian heritage.

    Yeah, the West stepped into Ukraine with their NGO's after the Kremlin destroyed the USSR. The hatred of Russia  in Ukraine might be largely "thanks" to these NGO's.

    Just because the Cold War was not won by bullets and bombs does not mean the "West" were passive observers. To the contrary, their was a massive well planned strategy to collapse the USSR utilizing all vectors of soft power as well as Brzezinski's honey trap of Afghanistan.

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    Rodinazombie

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    Post  Rodinazombie Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:21 pm

    I dont post that much here, but I do read every post.

    Every post that is, until now. The past few pages ive just skipped over due to the stupidity of some people.

    Will you please start talking like adults and cease posting dribble?

    Rant Over.

    Back on topic, its very frustrating to see the bombardments continue to increase with zero reaction from our side. I pray for the day these scumbags will get their comeuppance.

    To the guys who think this winter will see an energy meltdown for ukraine, think again. You guys say that russias tactic is to 'be the good guy' by respecting ukrainian territory, by following minsk and being the brotherly nation so that it can keep the country together and pick up whats left afterwards.

    So if russia is trying to be the good guy, why would russia suddenly screw them over with energy??? If russia leaves ukrainian citizens to freeze to death by cutting off the energy they will have a propaganda field day. It goes completely against the 'grand plan' that some are so fond of. Russia has had plenty of chances to put the boot in so far but has continued to give it gas discounts and supply it with coal.

    And lets not forget. Even if ukraine runs out of money to buy any more gas, the IMF will top up the ukies balance.

    Sorry but i dont share your enthusiasm for the ukrainian energy meltdown.



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    Post  ExBeobachter1987 Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:47 pm

    Rodinazombie wrote:So if russia is trying to be the good guy, why would russia suddenly screw them over with energy??? If russia leaves ukrainian citizens to freeze to death by cutting off the energy they will have a propaganda field day. It goes completely against the 'grand plan' that some are so fond of. Russia has had plenty of chances to put the boot in so far but has continued to give it gas discounts and supply it with coal.

    There is no grand plan.
    What we see are the desperate attempts of the Russian elite to neutralise Ukraine with political means and maintain links to the West.

    Rodinazombie wrote:And lets not forget. Even if ukraine runs out of money to buy any more gas, the IMF will top up the ukies balance.

    Sorry but i dont share your enthusiasm for the ukrainian energy meltdown.

    You are right. What people should look out for is the meltdown of the Ukrainian society and increasing lack of support for the war.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:56 pm

    Civilians torched OSCE's vehicles in Donetsk today. This is a stark warning to Zackarchenko. The people of Donetsk are not afraid of a cripple like you nor are they afraid of your few puny bodyguards. You are a stooge of Putin who told you not to bother with Maidan's shelling. If no action is done, your days will be numbered and you will end up like Saddam and Gaddafi. Wink
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:05 pm


    Ungrateful bastards!!! lol1 Laughing Razz

    Ukrainian Military Complains of US Humvee Vehicles Delivery

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20150809/1025565293.html

    HMMWV (Humvee) US military vehicles have turned into a problem for the Ukrainian army, media reports.

    The vehicles are equipped with old, worn-out tires. This is becoming problematic for the military as it is difficult to replace the tires in Ukraine.

    “This is the expected outcome of the lend-lease. There are no spare wheels. The rubber is old, after just a short drive the tires cracked,” said Oleg Movchan of APU. The problem is how to get similar tires, he said on his Facebook page, media reports.

    In March, Ukrainian media reported that the main problem for Humvee vehicles in Ukraine is the lack of spare parts.

    The Ukrainian military also noted that because of the poor quality of diesel fuel the car’s engines quickly get clogged filters.
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    Post  JohninMK Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:10 pm

    More from the 'couldn't make it up' department. What did Kiev expect, brand new vehicles? Didn't they check availability of parts, especially the non European ones or their cost, especially as they must have known the US world leading expertise in giving something free them making the money back later.

    HMMWV (Humvee) US military vehicles have turned into a problem for the Ukrainian army, media reports. The vehicles are equipped with old, worn-out tires. This is becoming problematic for the military as it is difficult to replace the tires in Ukraine.

    “This is the expected outcome of the lend-lease. There are no spare wheels. The rubber is old, after just a short drive the tires cracked,” said Oleg Movchan of APU. The problem is how to get similar tires, he said on his Facebook page, media reports.

    In March, Ukrainian media reported that the main problem for Humvee vehicles in Ukraine is the lack of spare parts. The Ukrainian military also noted that because of the poor quality of diesel fuel the car’s engines quickly get clogged filters.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150809/1025565293.html#ixzz3iLXNywoH
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    Post  Karl Haushofer Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:10 pm

    kvs wrote:Back in 2008 NATO was not actively trying to start WWIII to save its sorry a** from the looming depression.    Now it is
    openly trying to entice Russia to intervene militarily in the Donbas.   Clearly something has changed.   And that would be
    the level of desperation in NATO.
    I don't know who is "desperate", NATO or Russia, but Russia is the one who is retreating and NATO is the one who is advancing. Russia getting Crimea is obviously great and a big loss for the NATO, but as far as the whole Ukraine is concerned the NATO won there and Russia's influence has been reduced to a minimum.
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    Post  Karl Haushofer Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:12 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:Civilians torched OSCE's vehicles in Donetsk today. This is a stark warning to Zackarchenko. The people of Donetsk are not afraid of a cripple like you nor are they afraid of your few puny bodyguards. You are a stooge of Putin who told you not to bother with Maidan's shelling. If no action is done, your days will be numbered and you will end up like Saddam and Gaddafi. Wink

    This is not enough. They should kidnap OSCE officials and force them out of Donbass.
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    Post  Werewolf Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:13 pm

    Uhh uhhh another "Lend-Lease" the Muricans will claim to have defeated the Russian Barbarians if they did not provide ukrops via their Lend-Lease...
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    Post  Flagship Victory Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:14 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:I don't know who is "desperate", NATO or Russia, but Russia is the one who is retreating and NATO is the one who is advancing. Russia getting Crimea is obviously great and a big loss for the NATO, but as far as the whole Ukraine is concerned the NATO won there and Russia's influence has been reduced to a minimum.

    Crimea is 4% the size of Ukraine. Ukraine is 3% the size of Russia. Crimea is a tiny gain for Russia, a huge loss for Ukraine. The US does not need Crimea to threaten Russia. The US can base its fleet at Odessa. The US has achieved its goal of turning Ukrainians against Russia the moment Putin fell into the US's trap and absorbed Crimea into Russia.
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    Post  Karl Haushofer Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:21 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:I don't know who is "desperate", NATO or Russia, but Russia is the one who is retreating and NATO is the one who is advancing. Russia getting Crimea is obviously great and a big loss for the NATO, but as far as the whole Ukraine is concerned the NATO won there and Russia's influence has been reduced to a minimum.

    Crimea is 3% the size of Ukraine, just as Ukraine is 3% the size of Russia. Crimea is a tiny gain for Russia, a huge loss for Ukraine. The US does not need Crimea to threaten Russia. The US can base its fleet at Odessa. The US has achieved its goal of turning Ukrainians against Russia the moment Putin fell into the US's trap and absorbed Crimea into Russia.

    Crimea is significant because it gives Russia a great defensive terrain against attacks from the sea, and it's shore may contain some gas reserves.

    And Crimea was not any "trap" for Russia and Russia did the correct thing there. Ukrainians would have turned against Russia anyway.  The West absolutely did not want Russia to take Crimea. It was supposed to remain in Ukraine.

    But yes, other than Crimea the Russian gains are not that great concerning Donbass. The rebel-held territory is a tiny piece of land, not even half of the whole Donbass territory. The rebels should at some point take Mariupol and Sloviansk but it is not likely to happen in years since Russia cannot afford to support them enough.
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:22 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    kvs wrote:Back in 2008 NATO was not actively trying to start WWIII to save its sorry a** from the looming depression.    Now it is
    openly trying to entice Russia to intervene militarily in the Donbas.   Clearly something has changed.   And that would be
    the level of desperation in NATO.
    I don't know who is "desperate", NATO or Russia, but Russia is the one who is retreating and NATO is the one who is advancing. Russia getting Crimea is obviously great and a big loss for the NATO, but as far as the whole Ukraine is concerned the NATO won there and Russia's influence has been reduced to a minimum.

    Oh will you please cut the crap already?

    Post after post of this whining.

    FFS, the Ukraine is not a prize as you make out. I am glad to be rid of it.
    It is an economic Afghanistan for the one foolish enough to pile money into it. If the Ukraine runs out of money (which it will) and the IMF or whoever tops up the Ukraine's accounts in order to keep buying - I will be only glad.
    The Ukraine is an economic and political catastrophe and is bleeding the West's money and patience, long may it continue to do so.
    Millions of refugees and migrants leaving for the EU will also work to Russia's advantage. Russia for its part can secure all its borders, erect walls and shoot anybody trying to get over; problem solved. Let the EU with its 'human-rights' (very selective human-rights, as they clearly don't give a shit when dozens of sunbathers are murdered in broad daylight by Ukrainian artillery) deal with the coming human flood from the Ukraine.

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