The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

franco wrote:Maidian and the neonazi's have been complaining for some time that the Regular Ukrainian Army has been selling weapons and ammo to the Donbas rebels. This and the previous weapons seizure this month may actually be that. They wouldn't be able to sell directly across the battlefront so shipping across the Russian border to be taken back into Novorus. Obviously the SBU or Border Guards, which have always been the most loyal military force in Ukraine to the cause, have clued in or got lucky. But who knows for sure?

medo wrote:So, now we now, that Russia doesn't send much of their own weapons and ammunition to Novorussia, but transfer Ukrainian weapons and ammunition to Novorussian army, which Ukrainian army sell, most probably to pay for food, fuel, medics, etc. This is good for Novorussia on a long time period. More that Ukrainian army sell their weapons and ammunition, less will be in Ukrainian reserves to fight battles. Considering, that the only Ukrainian ammunition factory is in Lugansk in Novorussia, Ukrainian army and ukronazi units will sooner or later run out of ammunition and they will have no money to buy it from NATO.

whir wrote:

franco wrote:Maidian and the neonazi's have been complaining for some time that the Regular Ukrainian Army has been selling weapons and ammo to the Donbas rebels. This and the previous weapons seizure this month may actually be that. They wouldn't be able to sell directly across the battlefront so shipping across the Russian border to be taken back into Novorus. Obviously the SBU or Border Guards, which have always been the most loyal military force in Ukraine to the cause, have clued in or got lucky. But who knows for sure?

There's no need to cross the border when you can just cross the right checkpoint, the problem is that after the Tornado fiasco and the reorganisation of the smuggling business several shipments of goods have been apprehended in the last few weeks (today the last one) so maybe the driver's map was not updated or someone want's to hike up the tariffs.

BKP wrote:A Short List of Russian Successes Over the Past Few Months
Russia is on a roll, but you would never know it reading the mainstream media
Aleksandr Rodzhers,  Fri, Jul 24.
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/short-list-russian-successes-over-past-few-months-q/ri8945

Pretty good article from Russia Insider listing several recent Russian successes, both internal and geopolitical. Some items of particular note:
...................................................
.

Flagship Victory wrote:

medo wrote:So, now we now, that Russia doesn't send much of their own weapons and ammunition to Novorussia, but transfer Ukrainian weapons and ammunition to Novorussian army, which Ukrainian army sell, most probably to pay for food, fuel, medics, etc. This is good for Novorussia on a long time period. More that Ukrainian army sell their weapons and ammunition, less will be in Ukrainian reserves to fight battles. Considering, that the only Ukrainian ammunition factory is in Lugansk in Novorussia, Ukrainian army and ukronazi units will sooner or later run out of ammunition and they will have no money to buy it from NATO.

If Maidan runs out of ammo, wouldn't the US send ammo and arms to Maidan?

JohninMK wrote:It looks as if the Dutch prosecutor's office is not bound by the same secrecy agreement as the crash investigation. They appear to be claiming that the SBU tapes are the real thing, after 12 months in storage.

One of the individuals who may have been involved in the downing of flight MH17 according to the Dutch Public Prosecution Service (OM), was recognized by Ukraine as a former high ranking Russian intelligence officer.

It is the first indication that the Dutch Prosecution Service is considering the involvement of high ranking Russian (former) servicemen.

On Monday, the Public Prosecution Service published four tapped telephone conversations from the period surrounding the crash. The service did not reveal the callers’ identities, but explained that the conversations featured “separatists”. On Monday, chief prosecutor Fred Westerbeke spoke of “authentic recordings” that “were analyzed through and through”.

.................................................

The Organized Crime Office points out that this scenario is still under investigation. By now, the Netherlands have officially requested Russia for information. Chief prosecutor Fred Westerbeke is hoping to travel to Moscow shortly in order to view Russian evidence on the flight crash. The Dutch Public Prosecution Service would not comment on the issue this morning. The Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs was unable to give a reaction as well. Russian media, which are controlled by the government, stated earlier that the SBU’s tapped telephone conversations were “corrupted”.



Whole article at http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2015/04/01/russian-officer-recognized-on-tape-by-dutch-investigation-team-mh17/

medo wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:

medo wrote:So, now we now, that Russia doesn't send much of their own weapons and ammunition to Novorussia, but transfer Ukrainian weapons and ammunition to Novorussian army, which Ukrainian army sell, most probably to pay for food, fuel, medics, etc. This is good for Novorussia on a long time period. More that Ukrainian army sell their weapons and ammunition, less will be in Ukrainian reserves to fight battles. Considering, that the only Ukrainian ammunition factory is in Lugansk in Novorussia, Ukrainian army and ukronazi units will sooner or later run out of ammunition and they will have no money to buy it from NATO.

If Maidan runs out of ammo, wouldn't the US send ammo and arms to Maidan?

For free? I don't think so. Ukraine will have to pay it, but without money it is not possible. Don't forget, US weapons and ammunition is far more expensive than Russian one. For how many units, Ukraine is able to buy weapons and ammo from US? And they will still need food and fuel, so they will still sell those US weapons and ammo to Novorussia.

Flagship Victory wrote:

medo wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:

medo wrote:So, now we now, that Russia doesn't send much of their own weapons and ammunition to Novorussia, but transfer Ukrainian weapons and ammunition to Novorussian army, which Ukrainian army sell, most probably to pay for food, fuel, medics, etc. This is good for Novorussia on a long time period. More that Ukrainian army sell their weapons and ammunition, less will be in Ukrainian reserves to fight battles. Considering, that the only Ukrainian ammunition factory is in Lugansk in Novorussia, Ukrainian army and ukronazi units will sooner or later run out of ammunition and they will have no money to buy it from NATO.

If Maidan runs out of ammo, wouldn't the US send ammo and arms to Maidan?

For free? I don't think so. Ukraine will have to pay it, but without money it is not possible. Don't forget, US weapons and ammunition is far more expensive than Russian one. For how many units, Ukraine is able to buy weapons and ammo from US? And they will still need food and fuel, so they will still sell those US weapons and ammo to Novorussia.

I think it would be under foreign aid, paid for by US taxpayers. That's how the US arms industry makes big money. Foreign aid is a big part of that. All those arms sent to Iraq, for example, are done under foreign aid. The US also has plenty of surplus ammo.

Ivan the Colorado wrote:All is well and true Flagship except that Ukraine is a special case. In places like Iraq, that is how the US is selling weapons there. In Ukraine, the US is afraid that the VSU will not achieve satisfactory results with the provided arms. The US doesn't want to see US weapons in NAF or eventually Russian hands being one of the biggest concerns. Its a good bet that heads were rolling in US government as soon as they found out that the Rebels had captured counter-battery radars. If the US sends weapons like FGM-148s or something along those lines, then imagine the ensuing scandals once the Rebels inevitably post videos of them thanking Obama for the Javelins. The US has ruled out donating lethal aid to Ukraine. However if the Ukrops squander some of their IMF money and blow it on arms, I am sure the US would be more tempted to sell to them. That being said, we still won't see the Ukrops running around with any interesting equipment anytime soon.

Ivan the Colorado wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:

medo wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:

medo wrote:So, now we now, that Russia doesn't send much of their own weapons and ammunition to Novorussia, but transfer Ukrainian weapons and ammunition to Novorussian army, which Ukrainian army sell, most probably to pay for food, fuel, medics, etc. This is good for Novorussia on a long time period. More that Ukrainian army sell their weapons and ammunition, less will be in Ukrainian reserves to fight battles. Considering, that the only Ukrainian ammunition factory is in Lugansk in Novorussia, Ukrainian army and ukronazi units will sooner or later run out of ammunition and they will have no money to buy it from NATO.

If Maidan runs out of ammo, wouldn't the US send ammo and arms to Maidan?

For free? I don't think so. Ukraine will have to pay it, but without money it is not possible. Don't forget, US weapons and ammunition is far more expensive than Russian one. For how many units, Ukraine is able to buy weapons and ammo from US? And they will still need food and fuel, so they will still sell those US weapons and ammo to Novorussia.

I think it would be under foreign aid, paid for by US taxpayers. That's how the US arms industry makes big money. Foreign aid is a big part of that. All those arms sent to Iraq, for example, are done under foreign aid. The US also has plenty of surplus ammo.

All is well and true Flagship except that Ukraine is a special case. In places like Iraq, that is how the US is selling weapons there. In Ukraine, the US is afraid that the VSU will not achieve satisfactory results with the provided arms. The US doesn't want to see US weapons in NAF or eventually Russian hands being one of the biggest concerns. Its a good bet that heads were rolling in US government as soon as they found out that the Rebels had captured counter-battery radars. If the US sends weapons like FGM-148s or something along those lines, then imagine the ensuing scandals once the Rebels inevitably post videos of them thanking Obama for the Javelins. The US has ruled out donating lethal aid to Ukraine. However if the Ukrops squander some of their IMF money and blow it on arms, I am sure the US would be more tempted to sell to them. That being said, we still won't see the Ukrops running around with any interesting equipment anytime soon.

BKP wrote:

auslander wrote:
There are many parallels between Novorossiya and The Confederate States of America, right down to the main issue, federalization. If you read the period documents and writings of the participants you will understand that the war was not over slavery, it was state's rights versus National Government. Being from the very deep south I am well aware of what happened back then and I know of Lieutenant General T.J. Jackson. What the Yankees teach as The American Civil War we call and were taught about The War of Northern Aggression. When I first saw the Flag of Novorossiya I immediately showed my wife the flag and showed her the CSA Battle Flag. She simply smiled and said 'This time they won't lose'.

We often have interaction with both RF soldiers and NAF soldiers. A year ago, although I said nothing to anyone, I did not think our boys would win. I knew we here were safe behind the sword and shield of Russian Army but I feared very much for the outcome up north. Today those fears are long gone, I see virtually no difference between NAF and RAF soldiers now. I am suitably impressed with not only their vastly improved combat skills but also their demeanor with civilians and veterans, in other words like soldiers of RAF our boys with NAF exude a confidence that is palpable, not arrogance but confidence, confidence in their abilities and confidence for the end result of the war. Make no mistake, this war will last quite some time and we will lose a lot of good men and women and a lot of civilians, but in the end we will have victory.

 

Huh? I thought you once said you were an ex-German national. Anyhow, it seems increasingly popular for some these days to make this claim that the American Civil War was not about slavery but about "states' rights." Even Paul Craig Roberts, who generally has worthwhile things to say, seems to subscribe to this. Of course, he too is a southerner. But, that is a topic wherein he and I part ways in our perspectives.

The reason why states' rights was at issue to the extent that war broke out was because of slavery. The south wanted new states entering the union to have the the "right" of allowing slavery. It was true, and they understood, that if the new states did not have this right, then the balance of political influence in the federal government would slowly tip in favor of the non-slave-owning states.

It's true that the northern states were far from being morally perfect themselves, and many persons of influence there were scoundrels and exploiters themselves. Nevertheless, the south was standing in the way of the trend of history, which is that slavery was rightly on it's way out. Who the hell should feel that they have "right" to own another human being like a chattel animal? It is an outrageous idea, and I do take issue with anyone who supports it. Those apes would've dragged that evil institution right into the 20th century if they had their way. And who knows? Maybe they would've eventually become a sister state of Nazi Germany right here in North America. The movement undertaken by Novorussians has nothing to do in spirit with that of the CSA. The fact that their emblem bears some similarity to the CSA battle standard is probably an accident of graphic design, not an attempt to indicate kinship in spirit to that earlier, foreign, and rightfully-defeated movement.

And as to the misnomer "The War of Northern Aggression," need I remind you that it was the south that initiated armed conflict by attacking fort Sumter?

Ghoster wrote:Near the town of Severodonetsk, Ukrainian police arrested a man who tried to smuggle a BTR all the way from Schastye.

http://112.ua/kriminal/v-luganskoy-obl-zaderzhan-muzhchina-pytavshiysya-vyvezti-btr-na-svoem-gruzovike-mvd-247808.html



In this video - the same BTR 60. It was handed to "Aydar" battalion a year ago.


There's some talk about Kiev's volunteer battalions being ordered to withdraw from Shyrokyne and later from Schastye soon. Currently seems to be just rumors.

flamming_python wrote:auslander give me an honest answer

Are you a complete BSer or not?

'Coz really man, if you are - I salute you. I mean really, I would be impressed.
Between all the other hyper-troll characters we have had here and on mp.net, including Monarchist et all - you would have the top marks.

Ivan the Colorado wrote:If he is a BSer, he maybe the best one out there.

Flagship Victory wrote:

Ivan the Colorado wrote:All is well and true Flagship except that Ukraine is a special case. In places like Iraq, that is how the US is selling weapons there. In Ukraine, the US is afraid that the VSU will not achieve satisfactory results with the provided arms. The US doesn't want to see US weapons in NAF or eventually Russian hands being one of the biggest concerns. Its a good bet that heads were rolling in US government as soon as they found out that the Rebels had captured counter-battery radars. If the US sends weapons like FGM-148s or something along those lines, then imagine the ensuing scandals once the Rebels inevitably post videos of them thanking Obama for the Javelins. The US has ruled out donating lethal aid to Ukraine. However if the Ukrops squander some of their IMF money and blow it on arms, I am sure the US would be more tempted to sell to them. That being said, we still won't see the Ukrops running around with any interesting equipment anytime soon.

You make a good point. In hindsight, it's possible Russia gave NAF the go ahead to do offensive in January this year with the goal of capturing an American supplied counter mortar radar, which NAF did. If the US supplies a big counter battery radar, then we can expect Russia to give NAF green light again for another offensive to capture that equipment.