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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:24 pm

    HeNeArKrXeRn_ wrote:So I'm back from a 2 weeks vacation in Russia, and I, ironically, couldn't really follow what was happening in Ukrainistan... even when spending time in next door Rostov.

    Can someone give me a quick overview of what's happening, especially on the Right Sector referendum project.

    OT: I recommend to everyone to go visit Sochi, amazing city for beach-oriented vacation.

    I heard that Sochi has become an massive Asian destination, so it is crawling with tourists. I don't know if I would look forward to that.

    Then again, I wouldn't mind seeing any part of Russia, even the bad.
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    Post  Guest Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:18 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    HeNeArKrXeRn_ wrote:So I'm back from a 2 weeks vacation in Russia, and I, ironically, couldn't really follow what was happening in Ukrainistan... even when spending time in next door Rostov.

    Can someone give me a quick overview of what's happening, especially on the Right Sector referendum project.

    OT: I recommend to everyone to go visit Sochi, amazing city for beach-oriented vacation.

    I heard that Sochi has become an massive Asian destination, so it is crawling with tourists.  I don't know if I would look forward to that.

    Then again, I wouldn't mind seeing any part of Russia, even the bad.
    Like all resort spots. If you know your way around, you can find nice spots free of tourists. My relatives have a beach house nearby from Soviet times and it opens up to a nice and relatively empty beach. Same goes for the mountains.
    Cowboy's daughter
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:23 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Cowboy's daughter wrote:Is this for real

    What is the patch on his shoulder??

    Ukrainian Nazis of the punitive battalion "Azov" burned Orthodox icons, the Bible and the history books.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 31 CLFUHqNUAAAuZFw


    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 31 CLFUIoGUkAAwZGv

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 31 CLFUIcSUAAAFzy0

    Sh*t like this was one of the catalysts for Balkans sh*tstorm in the 90's.

    Déjà vu 24/7...

    Dear God. Sad
    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:30 am

    I dont know if it has been mentioned but a priest (I think orthodox) was shot in Kiev in an assassination attempt, died from his wounds in hospital.
    Flagship Victory
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    Post  Flagship Victory Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:09 am

    Only 2 Maidan soldiers WIA yesterday. At this rate, the war won't be over in 10 years. I want to see better results, tomorrow, ladies and gents. Cool
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    Post  Karl Haushofer Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:31 am

    Flagship Victory wrote:Only 2 Maidan soldiers WIA yesterday. At this rate, the war won't be over in 10 years. I want to see better results, tomorrow, ladies and gents. Cool

    This war will not be decided with blood and number of casualties. It will be a political decision. The stronger side (the West or Russia, depending who wins) will dictate the final peace settlement. This is not a war between Kiev and Donbass but a war between the West and Russia.
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:32 am

    HeNeArKrXeRn_ wrote:So I'm back from a 2 weeks vacation in Russia, and I, ironically, couldn't really follow what was happening in Ukrainistan... even when spending time in next door Rostov.

    Can someone give me a quick overview of what's happening, especially on the Right Sector referendum project.

    OT: I recommend to everyone to go visit Sochi, amazing city for beach-oriented vacation.

    I will never forgive myself for missing the Sochi Olympics. cry

    Curse this chronic shortage of extra cash!!! angry
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    Post  Flagship Victory Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:39 am

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:Only 2 Maidan soldiers WIA yesterday. At this rate, the war won't be over in 10 years. I want to see better results, tomorrow, ladies and gents. Cool

    This war will not be decided with blood and number of casualties. It will be a political decision. The stronger side (the West or Russia, depending who wins) will dictate the final peace settlement. This is not a war between Kiev and Donbass but a war between the West and Russia.

    I beg to differ. A war can only be decided by casualties on the ground. Americans were not driven out of Vietnam, Soviets were not driven out of Afghanistan, Americans were not driven out of Iraq and Afghanistan, had they incurred no casualties.
    Flagship Victory
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    Post  Flagship Victory Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:43 am

    Russia vetoes western tribunal whose aim was to persecute NAF with regards to MH17. cheers

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/russia-vetoes-resolution-to-set-up-mh17-international-tribunal-394583.html
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    Post  Karl Haushofer Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:45 am

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:Only 2 Maidan soldiers WIA yesterday. At this rate, the war won't be over in 10 years. I want to see better results, tomorrow, ladies and gents. Cool

    This war will not be decided with blood and number of casualties. It will be a political decision. The stronger side (the West or Russia, depending who wins) will dictate the final peace settlement. This is not a war between Kiev and Donbass but a war between the West and Russia.

    I beg to differ. A war can only be decided by casualties on the ground. Americans were not driven out of Vietnam, Soviets were not driven out of Afghanistan, Americans were not driven out of Iraq and Afghanistan, had they incurred no casualties.

    This is not true if the parties of the world are controlled from outside.

    Russia could help the rebels win this war but the West is there to make this as costly for Russia as possible. It is up to Russia to decide whether the cost is worth the gains.
    ExBeobachter1987
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    Post  ExBeobachter1987 Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:49 am

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:Only 2 Maidan soldiers WIA yesterday. At this rate, the war won't be over in 10 years. I want to see better results, tomorrow, ladies and gents. Cool

    This war will not be decided with blood and number of casualties. It will be a political decision. The stronger side (the West or Russia, depending who wins) will dictate the final peace settlement. This is not a war between Kiev and Donbass but a war between the West and Russia.

    I beg to differ. A war can only be decided by casualties on the ground. Americans were not driven out of Vietnam, Soviets were not driven out of Afghanistan, Americans were not driven out of Iraq and Afghanistan, had they incurred no casualties.

    Casualties are of secondary importance. It is far more important to achieve the set goals and maintain morale and the will to fight the enemy if necessary.
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:37 am

    I think I've watched a different, earlier video of this group distributing goods.

    Patriot Division. Alexandrovka (suburb Marinka)

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    Post  Guest Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:42 am

    Interesting video from Churkin: http://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201507300236-sfyf.htm
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    Post  Flagship Victory Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:51 am

    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:Casualties are of secondary importance. It is far more important to achieve the set goals and maintain morale and the will to fight the enemy if necessary.

    You are right in that wars are best won without shedding blood. However, as it stands, there is no more negotiation between Maidan and NAF. The only way to end this war is therefore by attrition on the ground.
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    Post  Regular Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:14 am

    Regular-old post wrote:Breaking news, it was revealed that MH-17 was taken down by Praviy Sektor suicide bomber abroad the plane, seriously any news about the investigation?

    Breaking news! This is serious thing people, Life news is reporting that plane exploded from inside! They even have a proof. Use google translator
    http://lifenews.ru/mobile/news/158220

    So let me get this straight, according to Russian officials first stated it was SU-25 that was even photographed shooting a missile. Then Russia dropped this idea and proceeded with Ukrainian BUK version which was supported by Almaz Antey. and this version is supported by Russian officials who again state it was Ukraine that shot down MH17. But what about that picture of SU-25? Almaz Antey totally discredited Russian general staff with their version. And now whe have this gem. And Russian vetoe in UN. This bullshit is getting more and more ridiculouswith, not that I support that tribunal, but as an innocent party Russia shouldn't vetoe it.


    Last edited by Regular on Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:30 am; edited 1 time in total
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:29 am

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Cowboy's daughter wrote:Is this for real

    What is the patch on his shoulder??

    Ukrainian Nazis of the punitive battalion "Azov" burned Orthodox icons, the Bible and the history books.(pics)

    Sh*t like this was one of the catalysts for Balkans sh*tstorm in the 90's.

    Déjà vu 24/7...

    Dear God. Sad

    The majority of Ukraina and Russia both follow Eastern Orthodox. Are these Azovs tried to isolate themselves ?
    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:09 am

    Regular wrote:
    Regular-old post wrote:Breaking news, it was revealed that MH-17 was taken down by Praviy Sektor suicide bomber abroad the plane, seriously any news about the investigation?

    Breaking news! This is serious thing people, Life news is reporting that plane exploded from inside! They even have a proof. Use google translator
    http://lifenews.ru/mobile/news/158220

    So let me get this straight, according to Russian officials first stated it was SU-25 that was even photographed shooting a missile. Then Russia dropped this idea and proceeded with Ukrainian BUK version which was supported by Almaz Antey. and this version is supported by Russian officials who again state it was Ukraine that shot down MH17. But what about that picture of SU-25? Almaz Antey totally discredited Russian general staff with their version. And now whe have this gem. And Russian vetoe in UN. This bullshit is getting more and more ridiculouswith, not that I support that tribunal, but as an innocent party Russia shouldn't vetoe it.

    And why shouldn't they veto it?  The investigation isn't over yet and nothing has been determined.  They are trying to already pinpoint the blame on the rebels without providing evidence or anything.  Russia is saying don't jump the gun while the other ones are.  Out of 15 countries 11 voted in favor of it. One has to look at which countries voted in favor of it, I imagine they are all tied to US and very anti Russian.  Only problem is people are already saying Russia is guilty and trying to hide it with this veto.  But the problem is, no one has evidence.

    I also find it odd that they all want a "Tribunal" for those innocent dead, but where was the Tribunal against US when they shot down the Iranian aircraft?  Or what about the previous issues with Soviets shooting down the Korean aircraft?  Or Ukraine when they shot down that Russian aircraft?

    Maybe you should read/watch this then: http://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201507300236-sfyf.htm

    It was posted by Ivan earlier and Churkin makes a very good point.  Why were civil planes flying over an area where military operation (even use of military planes) were operating (also planes previously shot down) and where are the military air traffic controller recordings?

    No one is superseding anyone. Pretty much Almaz Antey is giving their "info/knowledge", while LifeNews may be reporting something deemed as evidence, and Russian government is giving what they seen. Su-25 was more than likely present as others have pointed out. Could it have shot down the aircraft? Maybe but probably not. Buk M1 sounds far more convincing.
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    Post  Erk Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:19 am

    It's an uncanny coincidence that a piece of MH370 turns up the day of the vote on the UN tribunal for MH17, it's like trying to get twice the mileage out of Malaysian Airlines air crashes in the news headlines.


    “Russian propaganda” and the “imagination of RT producers” have become so powerful they have created an ethnic group seeking autonomy in western Ukraine, according to US Ambassador in Kiev, Geoffrey Pyatt. He also says the Right Sector threat is overblown.

    Pyatt recently traveled to the western region of Zakarpatye [Zakarpattia], the area that made international headlines in July after armed clashes between police and ultranationalists from the Right Sector in the town of Mukachevo left several people dead.
    http://www.rt.com/op-edge/311024-rt-imagined-rusyns-nationalists-pyatt/

    Lets hope Pyatt is correct, and the Right Sector doesn't start killing more people.
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    Post  auslander Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:20 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    Regular wrote:
    Regular-old post wrote:Breaking news, it was revealed that MH-17 was taken down by Praviy Sektor suicide bomber abroad the plane, seriously any news about the investigation?

    Breaking news! This is serious thing people, Life news is reporting that plane exploded from inside! They even have a proof. Use google translator
    http://lifenews.ru/mobile/news/158220

    So let me get this straight, according to Russian officials first stated it was SU-25 that was even photographed shooting a missile. Then Russia dropped this idea and proceeded with Ukrainian BUK version which was supported by Almaz Antey. and this version is supported by Russian officials who again state it was Ukraine that shot down MH17. But what about that picture of SU-25? Almaz Antey totally discredited Russian general staff with their version. And now whe have this gem. And Russian vetoe in UN. This bullshit is getting more and more ridiculouswith, not that I support that tribunal, but as an innocent party Russia shouldn't vetoe it.

    And why shouldn't they veto it?  The investigation isn't over yet and nothing has been determined.  They are trying to already pinpoint the blame on the rebels without providing evidence or anything.  Russia is saying don't jump the gun while the other ones are.  Out of 15 countries 11 voted in favor of it. One has to look at which countries voted in favor of it, I imagine they are all tied to US and very anti Russian.  Only problem is people are already saying Russia is guilty and trying to hide it with this veto.  But the problem is, no one has evidence.

    I also find it odd that they all want a "Tribunal" for those innocent dead, but where was the Tribunal against US when they shot down the Iranian aircraft?  Or what about the previous issues with Soviets shooting down the Korean aircraft?  Or Ukraine when they shot down that Russian aircraft?

    Maybe you should read/watch this then: http://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201507300236-sfyf.htm

    It was posted by Ivan earlier and Churkin makes a very good point.  Why were civil planes flying over an area where military operation (even use of military planes) were operating (also planes previously shot down) and where are the military air traffic controller recordings?

    No one is superseding anyone. Pretty much Almaz Antey is giving their "info/knowledge", while LifeNews may be reporting something deemed as evidence, and Russian government is giving what they seen.  Su-25 was more than likely present as others have pointed out.  Could it have shot down the aircraft? Maybe but probably not.  Buk M1 sounds far more convincing.

    Sigh. One last time. Two countries had intelsats above that area. Two countries know exactly who shot the aircraft down. If it was NAF or RAF who did the shootdown one country would have had their sat images on the news instantly. They did not publish their images and have been moving heaven and earth to find a way to blame it on NAF and/or RAF since, hence the huge delays in the incident report coming out, the visit by the investigators to the crash scene almost a year after the incident 'to gather more evidence' and the veto power of Ukraine over publication of the report. Connect the dots. It doesn't matter how it was shot down, the fact is it was shot down and there is far more than reasonable suspicion the Ukraine Armed Forces did the deed.

    I smell a golden trap laid by the premier statesman of our time in that his adversaries are caught in a blatant lie that they can not publicly either admit or deny without world class loss of credibility. The problem is US/EU will eventually have to release the final report and even a Ukraine veto will not stop the report from getting out one way or the other, ergo there is a very real possibility of a major and catastrophic event at report release time if for no other reason than to prevent the public from focusing on the report, their collective attention will be on the new and more horrific event.
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:59 am

    "We will string them up from the nearest tree" is not quite a quote from Poro.

    KIEV, July 29. /TASS/. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko pledged on Wednesday to punish those responsible for the crash of the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in the eastern Ukrainian Donetsk region last summer. "The results speak for themselves," he wrote on his Facebook page in comments on the UN Security Council vote on the MH17 tribunal draft resolution on Wednesday. "But Ukraine won’t stop at that. The guilty parties must be punished by all means. This is our duty to those who were killed and their relatives," the president said.

    Russia vetoed on Wednesday the United Nations Security Council resolution on establishing an international tribunal to prosecute persons guilty of the MH17 plane crash over Ukraine on July 17, 2014. Eleven Security Council members voted for the Malaysia-proposed draft, which, in fact, was enough for its adoption but Russia used its right of veto. Another three countries, including Angola, Venezuela and China, abstained from voting.

    A draft resolution of the UN Security Council on setting up a tribunal for the MH17 tragedy is devoid of any legal or case basis, the Russian ambassador to the UN, Vitaly Churkin said on Wednesday as he was explaining for Moscow's decision to veto the document. "We have repeatedly explained all this to our colleagues, urging them to think on alternatives," the diplomat said, adding that the authors of the draft resolution "refused to act in the spirit of cooperation". The incident with MH17 cannot be qualified as a threat to international peace and security, he said adding that the shooting down of a Russian Tupolev-154 jet by a Ukrainian naval missile over the Black Sea in the autumn of 2001 did not entail the setting up of any tribunals.

    "Russia is ready to continue assisting in a full, independent and objective investigation into the causes and circumstances of the crash of the Malaysian airliner, basing on provisions of Security Council resolution 2166 [of 2014] with an aim to find those guilty and have them punished," the diplomat said. Russia’s decision to vote against the MH17 tribunal draft resolution "has nothing to do with encouragement of impunity," the UN ambassador said.
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:04 am

    What's up? Have the other 1000's gone home? Officers with no NCO/soldier support? Oh, wasn't that 'ammunition convoy' a single truck? Dear dear, must do better.

    KYIV, July 29 /Ukrinform/. Russian officer Vladimir Starkov, detained by the Ukrainian border guards at Berezove checkpoint (Donetsk region) said that about 2,000 Russian officers were documented as "advisors" to terrorists of the so-called Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic. This is reported by the SBU press center.

    As chairman of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) Vasyl Hrytsak noted during the general briefing with Head of the State Border Service of Ukraine Viktor Nazarenko, "there is a clearly established mechanism of coordination and direct involvement of the Russia's Armed Forces staff in the Russian aggression against our country."

    The SBU Chairman brought unquestioning evidence of Vladimir Starkov belonging to the personnel of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. A Russian army officer named as Major Vladimir Starkov, who was arrested by Ukrainian border guards at Berezove checkpoint (Donetsk region), accompanied an ammunition convoy from Donetsk to the village of Yasne, State Border Guard Service Chief Viktor Nazarenko has said.
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:10 am

    Fat chance. If they won't pay 'market price' which the Russians say is similar (varies due to different transit charges, advance payment etc) to what everyone else in EE is paying, rather than 'mates rates', they ain't gonna get the taps open again.

    KYIV, July 29 /Ukrinform/. EU-Ukraine-Russia trilateral talks on price of Russian gas deliveries will take place in the first half of September. Head of the European Integration Department of the Ministry of Energy and Coal Industry Mykhailo Bno-Airiian said this at a briefing, Ukrinform reports.

    "We still hope to reach a compromise. On August 27-28, the bilateral talks between the Ukrainian energy minister and Sefcovic [Vice-President of the European Commission] on this issue [the Russian gas price] are likely to be held in Vienna in order to hold the trilateral talks with Russians in the first half of September and to reach a compromise," he said. He reminded that Ukraine expected to receive a document that stipulates a format of gas relations till the end of the heating season.
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    Post  Neutrality Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:12 am

    Churkin raises a very important question. I really think the Ukrainians increased and even provoked the chances of downing of a civilian aircraft above a warzone. I'd call it a tactic of desperation on their part. Who shot it down I dare not speculate but if the Russians did intercept communication between military air trafficers then I bet they have captured something juicy.
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    Post  Ghoster Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:40 am

    2 residents of Gorlovka killed and 6 wounded after junta's shelling yesterday. 2 children were among the wounded.

    http://dan-news.info/obschestvo/shest-zhitelej-gorlovki-raneny-v-rezultate-obstrela-iz-nix-dvoe-detej.html
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    Post  Ghoster Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:52 am

    Some reports/updates written by militia this week.
    http://news-front.info/2015/07/27/boevye-svodki-opolcheniya-novorossii-dnr-i-lnr-27-07-2015-obnovlyaetsya

    Posted by militiaman Alexei Milchakova:

       "We located on the front 1MSB 1 UICC (where we were) and housing authorities DNR took all armored vehicles (including BMPs), and mortars citing the Minsk agreements (analogue Khasavyurt). It remains to hang banner- "Welcome." PS. BMP does not fall under the Minsk (caliber weapon 73 or 30), but the authorities have shown "goodwill gesture."

    Posted by volunteer with the call sign "Zubr":

       "Hello, I write to you, choking with rage! We located on the front line (!!!) that in the mode of high alert and under constant skirmishes with ukrami 1st SME 1 DNR took all the equipment and mortars. The motivation was as always simple - to perform the Minsk Agreement .. and this despite the fact that BMP does not fall under the Minsk caliber, ie Command took even provided weapons Minsk conspiracy! What can I say - we are in a frenzy! We are, literally, with his bare hands placed under the full disposal ukrov, with only one small arms forced to fend off punitive! I will say only one thing - to tolerate such an attitude to him, we will not. "

    http://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_68587

    29.07.15. Posted by an officer BTRO LC.

    "We shot on schedule, and we just gritting his teeth in the trenches. The situation near the village of Lugansk every day becomes more and more tense, APU shamelessly take advantage received because of a unilateral withdrawal of weapons and everyday shooting defensive LC. Our main problem consists of two things. Firstly, the enemy appeared competent artillery officer, who managed the best of them in stock funds artillery, armored vehicles and heavy motorized infantry weapons to create an effective ensemble that literally runs on schedule for our defense positions. To far for examples not to go: a few days ago for medical losses amounted day we have two "hundred" (killed) and eight fighters "three hundred" (wounded). We answer can not do anything. We shot on schedule, and we are just gritting his teeth in the trenches . All that was - reserved for "Minsk" in the rear. The enemy knows this, so quietly he drives SAUshku at a distance of 8 kilometers and running on the "mountain" (LC defensive positions on the bridge pedestrian crossing at the village of Lugansk), both at the site. It's a shame because to tears - I do with this self-propelled gun? With grenade at 8km not shoot. Yet they put armor directly in the village, between the houses. That is shamelessly used the established diplomatic incident. But even with this artificial superiority, but to shoot from a distance position they are nothing more. Our defense is irresistible to them, and they know it. Hence, such a cowardly tactic. "


    Last edited by Ghoster on Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:13 am; edited 1 time in total

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