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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    auslander
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    Post  auslander on Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:32 am

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    auslander wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    NAF definitely looking and acting more and more like a professional fighting force with each passing day. They have definitely made a lot of ground on bringing up the quality of their soldiers. Voentorg has definitely been busy. Still there is work that needs to be done. However, it would have been hard to tell some of these guys apart from the Russian Army a decade ago.

    Thanks for posting some quality content on here Flagship. You derserve my +1. Bet it feels good no longer being the public enemy number one here anymore. Wink

    I'll keep an eye on him, mayhap he can redeem himself in my eyes. If so I'll take him off the ignore list.

    We have opportunity to speak to some of the wounded sent here for treatment and some of our boys come home for R&R when events allow, and I must admit there has been quite the change in the soldiers this year. I am very impressed with them, not only in their advanced skills in warcraft but their general demeanor has changed, subtle but a change. Professional is the word for most. We had an event  a week ago this past Friday and our boys did their duty as well as the Desantniki involved. I would say Novorossiya now has a proper professional, and all volunteer, Army.
    Usually as soon as Flagship stops post news is when he goes full retard. Just an observation.

    Pretty interesting observation of the NAF there that none of us really have the opportunity to make Auslander. I know enough about the current Russian Military myself through serving relatives and some exposure to say they are some of the best soldiers out there. On par with the US, which despite its sh!tty politicians has a very well trained military filled with great people. Seeing that you can compare them to the Russian Military is high praise indeed.

    Incidentally. there is a quote that a legendary American Civil War Confederate general named Stonewall Jackson. For those unfamiliar with American history, the situation that the Confederates were in had a lot of ideological parallels with the Novorossiyan Rebels today. Jackson said, "The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth."

    There are many parallels between Novorossiya and The Confederate States of America, right down to the main issue, federalization. If you read the period documents and writings of the participants you will understand that the war was not over slavery, it was state's rights versus National Government. Being from the very deep south I am well aware of what happened back then and I know of Lieutenant General T.J. Jackson. What the Yankees teach as The American Civil War we call and were taught about The War of Northern Aggression. When I first saw the Flag of Novorossiya I immediately showed my wife the flag and showed her the CSA Battle Flag. She simply smiled and said 'This time they won't lose'.

    We often have interaction with both RF soldiers and NAF soldiers. A year ago, although I said nothing to anyone, I did not think our boys would win. I knew we here were safe behind the sword and shield of Russian Army but I feared very much for the outcome up north. Today those fears are long gone, I see virtually no difference between NAF and RAF soldiers now. I am suitably impressed with not only their vastly improved combat skills but also their demeanor with civilians and veterans, in other words like soldiers of RAF our boys with NAF exude a confidence that is palpable, not arrogance but confidence, confidence in their abilities and confidence for the end result of the war. Make no mistake, this war will last quite some time and we will lose a lot of good men and women and a lot of civilians, but in the end we will have victory.

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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:05 am

    auslander wrote:There are many parallels between Novorossiya and The Confederate States of America, ...

    The parallels are not superficial; they are direct.

    Please go to the following thread for the clues. Unfortunately I haven't had the opportunity to add material to the thread after initially starting it up.

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t3832-history-fiction-or-science
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    Post  Guest on Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:23 am

    auslander wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    auslander wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    NAF definitely looking and acting more and more like a professional fighting force with each passing day. They have definitely made a lot of ground on bringing up the quality of their soldiers. Voentorg has definitely been busy. Still there is work that needs to be done. However, it would have been hard to tell some of these guys apart from the Russian Army a decade ago.

    Thanks for posting some quality content on here Flagship. You derserve my +1. Bet it feels good no longer being the public enemy number one here anymore. Wink

    I'll keep an eye on him, mayhap he can redeem himself in my eyes. If so I'll take him off the ignore list.

    We have opportunity to speak to some of the wounded sent here for treatment and some of our boys come home for R&R when events allow, and I must admit there has been quite the change in the soldiers this year. I am very impressed with them, not only in their advanced skills in warcraft but their general demeanor has changed, subtle but a change. Professional is the word for most. We had an event  a week ago this past Friday and our boys did their duty as well as the Desantniki involved. I would say Novorossiya now has a proper professional, and all volunteer, Army.
    Usually as soon as Flagship stops post news is when he goes full retard. Just an observation.

    Pretty interesting observation of the NAF there that none of us really have the opportunity to make Auslander. I know enough about the current Russian Military myself through serving relatives and some exposure to say they are some of the best soldiers out there. On par with the US, which despite its sh!tty politicians has a very well trained military filled with great people. Seeing that you can compare them to the Russian Military is high praise indeed.

    Incidentally. there is a quote that a legendary American Civil War Confederate general named Stonewall Jackson. For those unfamiliar with American history, the situation that the Confederates were in had a lot of ideological parallels with the Novorossiyan Rebels today. Jackson said, "The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth."

    There are many parallels between Novorossiya and The Confederate States of America, right down to the main issue, federalization. If you read the period documents and writings of the participants you will understand that the war was not over slavery, it was state's rights versus National Government. Being from the very deep south I am well aware of what happened back then and I know of Lieutenant General T.J. Jackson. What the Yankees teach as The American Civil War we call and were taught about The War of Northern Aggression. When I first saw the Flag of Novorossiya I immediately showed my wife the flag and showed her the CSA Battle Flag. She simply smiled and said 'This time they won't lose'.

    We often have interaction with both RF soldiers and NAF soldiers. A year ago, although I said nothing to anyone, I did not think our boys would win. I knew we here were safe behind the sword and shield of Russian Army but I feared very much for the outcome up north. Today those fears are long gone, I see virtually no difference between NAF and RAF soldiers now. I am suitably impressed with not only their vastly improved combat skills but also their demeanor with civilians and veterans, in other words like soldiers of RAF our boys with NAF exude a confidence that is palpable, not arrogance but confidence, confidence in their abilities and confidence for the end result of the war. Make no mistake, this war will last quite some time and we will lose a lot of good men and women and a lot of civilians, but in the end we will have victory.

     
    Didn't know you were from the South, Auslander Very Happy

    Novorossiya started off worse than the CSA did in their respective wars for independence in a way. Both were heavily outnumbered and outgunned by their respective unions, but the rebels in the CSA were organized more quickly and their commanders were far superior to the Union. Meanwhile, the only commander that was a good tactician and was consistently winning his fights was Strelkov. As the war went on, the good commanders disappeared from both the NAF and the CSA Army and both sides started to lose. Both fledgling countries needed assistance from a military power to survive. The British chose not to get involved, while Russia didn't abandon Novorossiya. The rest is history now.

    So you think as long as the NAF is under the care and watchful eye of the RF, they will be fine? Like no longer will the wind need to blow?
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    Post  JohninMK on Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:42 pm

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    auslander wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    auslander wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    NAF definitely looking and acting more and more like a professional fighting force with each passing day. They have definitely made a lot of ground on bringing up the quality of their soldiers. Voentorg has definitely been busy. Still there is work that needs to be done. However, it would have been hard to tell some of these guys apart from the Russian Army a decade ago.

    Thanks for posting some quality content on here Flagship. You derserve my +1. Bet it feels good no longer being the public enemy number one here anymore. Wink

    I'll keep an eye on him, mayhap he can redeem himself in my eyes. If so I'll take him off the ignore list.

    We have opportunity to speak to some of the wounded sent here for treatment and some of our boys come home for R&R when events allow, and I must admit there has been quite the change in the soldiers this year. I am very impressed with them, not only in their advanced skills in warcraft but their general demeanor has changed, subtle but a change. Professional is the word for most. We had an event  a week ago this past Friday and our boys did their duty as well as the Desantniki involved. I would say Novorossiya now has a proper professional, and all volunteer, Army.
    Usually as soon as Flagship stops post news is when he goes full retard. Just an observation.

    Pretty interesting observation of the NAF there that none of us really have the opportunity to make Auslander. I know enough about the current Russian Military myself through serving relatives and some exposure to say they are some of the best soldiers out there. On par with the US, which despite its sh!tty politicians has a very well trained military filled with great people. Seeing that you can compare them to the Russian Military is high praise indeed.

    Incidentally. there is a quote that a legendary American Civil War Confederate general named Stonewall Jackson. For those unfamiliar with American history, the situation that the Confederates were in had a lot of ideological parallels with the Novorossiyan Rebels today. Jackson said, "The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth."

    There are many parallels between Novorossiya and The Confederate States of America, right down to the main issue, federalization. If you read the period documents and writings of the participants you will understand that the war was not over slavery, it was state's rights versus National Government. Being from the very deep south I am well aware of what happened back then and I know of Lieutenant General T.J. Jackson. What the Yankees teach as The American Civil War we call and were taught about The War of Northern Aggression. When I first saw the Flag of Novorossiya I immediately showed my wife the flag and showed her the CSA Battle Flag. She simply smiled and said 'This time they won't lose'.

    We often have interaction with both RF soldiers and NAF soldiers. A year ago, although I said nothing to anyone, I did not think our boys would win. I knew we here were safe behind the sword and shield of Russian Army but I feared very much for the outcome up north. Today those fears are long gone, I see virtually no difference between NAF and RAF soldiers now. I am suitably impressed with not only their vastly improved combat skills but also their demeanor with civilians and veterans, in other words like soldiers of RAF our boys with NAF exude a confidence that is palpable, not arrogance but confidence, confidence in their abilities and confidence for the end result of the war. Make no mistake, this war will last quite some time and we will lose a lot of good men and women and a lot of civilians, but in the end we will have victory.

     
    Didn't know you were from the South, Auslander Very Happy

    Novorossiya started off worse than the CSA did in their respective wars for independence in a way. Both were heavily outnumbered and outgunned by their respective unions, but the rebels in the CSA were organized more quickly and their commanders were far superior to the Union. Meanwhile, the only commander that was a good tactician and was consistently winning his fights was Strelkov. As the war went on, the good commanders disappeared from both the NAF and the CSA Army and both sides started to lose. Both fledgling countries needed assistance from a military power to survive. The British chose not to get involved, while Russia didn't abandon Novorossiya. The rest is history now.

    So you think as long as the NAF is under the care and watchful eye of the RF, they will be fine? Like no longer will the wind need to blow?
    I suspect the wind will blow if needed, but that need is reducing. The most likely scenario in my mind is that, in the event of a UA strike, the maximum amount of firepower will need to be deployed to annihilate the strike and its tail before it can get very far. Whilst it has been shown to be relatively easy to identify long range weapons when they are used individually, if used en-mass with barrel artillery/120mm rockets they would just get lost in the hellstorm.
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    Post  whir on Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:32 pm

    TV Zvezda via Google Translate wrote:Ополченцы отремонтировали оставшуюся от силовиков РСЗО «Ураган»
    Militias repaired the rest of the security forces MLRS "Hurricane"
    July 26, 2015, 13:55

    Ukrainian militia repair technique thrown Ukrainian security officials. So, on the alert to the militias soon intercede updated MLRS "Hurricane."

    Repair Service BC New Russia continues to restore previously seized Ukrainian technique.

    Meanwhile, from the Sand APU incendiary shells fired at the village of Oktyabrsky. Shoot from the Artemovsk towards Gorlovka reportedly militia heard howitzers. And from Avdeevka disappeared "Right Sector".
    It is expected that Ukrainian security forces are preparing MLRS barrage of howitzers and the north of Donetsk.

    Near the village of Lugansk in the city at night was mortar fire from Makaravo it noted that, probably fired from the positions of the terrorist battalion "Chernigov".

    Video: Summary of the militia of New Russia / VKContinue to Video.
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:42 pm

    whir wrote:
    TV Zvezda via Google Translate wrote:Ополченцы отремонтировали оставшуюся от силовиков РСЗО «Ураган»
    Militias repaired the rest of the security forces MLRS "Hurricane"
    July 26, 2015, 13:55

    Ukrainian militia repair technique thrown Ukrainian security officials. So, on the alert to the militias soon intercede updated MLRS "Hurricane."

    Repair Service BC New Russia continues to restore previously seized Ukrainian technique.

    Meanwhile, from the Sand APU incendiary shells fired at the village of Oktyabrsky. Shoot from the Artemovsk towards Gorlovka reportedly militia heard howitzers. And from Avdeevka disappeared "Right Sector".
    It is expected that Ukrainian security forces are preparing MLRS barrage of howitzers and the north of Donetsk.

    Near the village of Lugansk in the city at night was mortar fire from Makaravo it noted that, probably fired from the positions of the terrorist battalion "Chernigov".

    Video: Summary of the militia of New Russia / VKContinue to Video.

    Interesting, thank you.
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:45 pm

    Ситуация Новороссии ‏@EgoRZemtsoV 13h13 hours ago

    Под Авдеевкой на растяжке подорвался украинский певец Николай Гордийчук, ещё три укра ранены.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 21 CKy_W3DUEAA1Cd5

    google translate: Under the Avdeevka to stretch blown Ukrainian singer Nikolai Gordiychuk, Ukra three more wounded.

    So, three Ukrainians got wounded and Right Sector left.
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    Post  Neutrality on Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:20 pm

    So are we supposed to feel sorry for that singer? He got what he was he looking for in a place where only one thing is to be found (eventually).
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    Post  JohninMK on Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:31 pm

    This is weird, they stop a truck apparently going into Russia with ammo! Should have sped it on its way, unless they needed it for themselves.


    DONETSK, July 26. /TASS/. Defence Ministry of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) does not have any information Ukrainian border guard stopped a KAMAZ truck loaded with ammunition, the ministry’s representative Eduard Basurin told reporters on Sunday. "I know nothing about it," he said. "Ukraine keeps making statements of the kind to have reasons to accuse Russia afterwards."

    "Ukraine’s Security Service once again is trying to accuse Russia of a military presence in Donbass," the Donetsk News Agency quoted a representative of the DPR’s military authority. "This time they have stopped a KAMAZ with ammunition. As yet, they have not presented proofs of that, apart from the claims and weird pictures of boxes with ammunition. How could they identify the so-called major? Did he have a military ID issued by the DPR? The very presence of a Russian military accompanying a shipment of ammunition by the front line causes irony only."

    Earlier on Sunday, Ukraine’s border guard said they stopped at the Berezovoye crossing station in the Donetsk region a KAMAZ truck loaded with ammunition and two military, one of which "said he was a Russian Major." The border guard said the truck had arrived from Olenevka, which is controlled by the militia.

    Later on, speaker of the Ukrainian presidential administration on the punitive mission in Donbass Alexander Motuzyanik said they were identifying the detained men. "One of them said he was a professional military of the Russian Armed Forces, a Major, and we are still to identify him, as who knows what he could say about himself," the speaker said.
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    Post  JohninMK on Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:32 pm

    Brilliant UA publicity move

    MOSCOW, July 26. /TASS/. A delegation of the Organisation for Security and Co-Operation in Europe (OSCE) led by coordinator of the subgroup on humanitarian issues of the Contact Group on settlement of the situation in Donbass Toni Frisch got under a shelling by the Ukrainian military near the town of Schastye, a well-informed source told the LuhanskInformCentre on Sunday.

    "As the Ukrainian military stopped the fire, Frisch made the decision to return to Luhansk," the source said.

    On July 25, Toni Frisch arrived on a two-day visit to the self-proclaimed Luhansk People’s Republic (LPR) to analyse the humanitarian situation there. Besides, he planned to inspect the destroyed water-supply system in Luhansk and to see other towns in the republic.
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    Post  JohninMK on Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:35 pm

    What's up?

    MOSCOW, July 26. /TASS/. Over the past night Ukraine’s Donetsk did not register a shelling, the city’s heads of district administrations told the Donetsk News Agency on Sunday.

    "We did not fix any shelling last night," press service of the Kuibyshev district said. "In our district, the night was quiet; there is no information about shelling, destroying or victims," administration of the Kiev district said.

    The Petrov region near the front line was not shelled, either. Local authorities say the quiet situation continues in Donetsk.
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    Post  BKP on Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:04 pm

    auslander wrote:
    There are many parallels between Novorossiya and The Confederate States of America, right down to the main issue, federalization. If you read the period documents and writings of the participants you will understand that the war was not over slavery, it was state's rights versus National Government. Being from the very deep south I am well aware of what happened back then and I know of Lieutenant General T.J. Jackson. What the Yankees teach as The American Civil War we call and were taught about The War of Northern Aggression. When I first saw the Flag of Novorossiya I immediately showed my wife the flag and showed her the CSA Battle Flag. She simply smiled and said 'This time they won't lose'.

    We often have interaction with both RF soldiers and NAF soldiers. A year ago, although I said nothing to anyone, I did not think our boys would win. I knew we here were safe behind the sword and shield of Russian Army but I feared very much for the outcome up north. Today those fears are long gone, I see virtually no difference between NAF and RAF soldiers now. I am suitably impressed with not only their vastly improved combat skills but also their demeanor with civilians and veterans, in other words like soldiers of RAF our boys with NAF exude a confidence that is palpable, not arrogance but confidence, confidence in their abilities and confidence for the end result of the war. Make no mistake, this war will last quite some time and we will lose a lot of good men and women and a lot of civilians, but in the end we will have victory.

     

    Huh? I thought you once said you were an ex-German national. Anyhow, it seems increasingly popular for some these days to make this claim that the American Civil War was not about slavery but about "states' rights." Even Paul Craig Roberts, who generally has worthwhile things to say, seems to subscribe to this. Of course, he too is a southerner. But, that is a topic wherein he and I part ways in our perspectives.

    The reason why states' rights was at issue to the extent that war broke out was because of slavery. The south wanted new states entering the union to have the the "right" of allowing slavery. It was true, and they understood, that if the new states did not have this right, then the balance of political influence in the federal government would slowly tip in favor of the non-slave-owning states.

    It's true that the northern states were far from being morally perfect themselves, and many persons of influence there were scoundrels and exploiters themselves. Nevertheless, the south was standing in the way of the trend of history, which is that slavery was rightly on it's way out. Who the hell should feel that they have "right" to own another human being like a chattel animal? It is an outrageous idea, and I do take issue with anyone who supports it. Those apes would've dragged that evil institution right into the 20th century if they had their way. And who knows? Maybe they would've eventually become a sister state of Nazi Germany right here in North America. The movement undertaken by Novorussians has nothing to do in spirit with that of the CSA. The fact that their emblem bears some similarity to the CSA battle standard is probably an accident of graphic design, not an attempt to indicate kinship in spirit to that earlier, foreign, and rightfully-defeated movement.

    And as to the misnomer "The War of Northern Aggression," need I remind you that it was the south that initiated armed conflict by attacking fort Sumter?
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    Post  Ghoster on Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:11 pm

    JohninMK wrote:What's up?

    MOSCOW, July 26. /TASS/. Over the past night Ukraine’s Donetsk did not register a shelling, the city’s heads of district administrations told the Donetsk News Agency on Sunday.

    "We did not fix any shelling last night," press service of the Kuibyshev district said. "In our district, the night was quiet; there is no information about shelling, destroying or victims," administration of the Kiev district said.

    The Petrov region near the front line was not shelled, either. Local authorities say the quiet situation continues in Donetsk.
    The article only implies Donetsk. 1 civilian was killed when Gorlovka was shelled last night.
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:12 pm

    Neutrality wrote:So are we supposed to feel sorry for that singer? He got what he was he looking for in a place where only one thing is to be found (eventually).

    I wasn't posted about the singer, didn't read it -- I was posting about Ukrainians getting killed

    & Right Sector leaving.

    & wondering why they left? because people was getting killed, or some other reason?
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    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:16 pm

    JohninMK wrote:This is weird, they stop a truck apparently going into Russia with ammo! Should have sped it on its way, unless they needed it for themselves.


    DONETSK, July 26. /TASS/. Defence Ministry of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) does not have any information Ukrainian border guard stopped a KAMAZ truck loaded with ammunition, the ministry’s representative Eduard Basurin told reporters on Sunday. "I know nothing about it," he said. "Ukraine keeps making statements of the kind to have reasons to accuse Russia afterwards."

    "Ukraine’s Security Service once again is trying to accuse Russia of a military presence in Donbass," the Donetsk News Agency quoted a representative of the DPR’s military authority. "This time they have stopped a KAMAZ with ammunition. As yet, they have not presented proofs of that, apart from the claims and weird pictures of boxes with ammunition. How could they identify the so-called major? Did he have a military ID issued by the DPR? The very presence of a Russian military accompanying a shipment of ammunition by the front line causes irony only."

    Earlier on Sunday, Ukraine’s border guard said they stopped at the Berezovoye crossing station in the Donetsk region a KAMAZ truck loaded with ammunition and two military, one of which "said he was a Russian Major." The border guard said the truck had arrived from Olenevka, which is controlled by the militia.

    Later on, speaker of the Ukrainian presidential administration on the punitive mission in Donbass Alexander Motuzyanik said they were identifying the detained men. "One of them said he was a professional military of the Russian Armed Forces, a Major, and we are still to identify him, as who knows what he could say about himself," the speaker said.

    No name? Suspect Looks like another version of Ukrainian mathematical proof. No honey. cheers No wonder why Ukraine has no mathematicians. No one ever accepts their joke proofs. cheers
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    Post  kvs on Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:19 pm

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2008/01/thomas-dilorenzo/speaking-truth-to-the-lincoln-cult/

    There is way too much mythology about the Great Emancipation and the Great Emancipator.

    The Civil War in the US was about power and resources. It was not some human rights crusade.
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    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:25 pm

    There is very little parallel between the American civil war and the war in Donbas. The south was very powerful, very big compared to the north, and manufactured its own arms. NAF controlled Donbas is very small compared to Maidan Ukraine and does not manufacture any arms.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_of_America

    A much better comparison is the US war of independence from Britain. The 13 colonies were much smaller than Britain and did not manufacture any arms. All their arms were supplied by France which later directly entered the war.
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    Post  BKP on Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:51 pm

    kvs wrote:https://www.lewrockwell.com/2008/01/thomas-dilorenzo/speaking-truth-to-the-lincoln-cult/

    There is way too much mythology about the Great Emancipation and the Great Emancipator.

    The Civil War in the US was about power and resources.   It was not some human rights crusade.

    LOL, it's funny how they always manage to find some Uncle Tom like the author of that article to trot out. I wonder if they had to shoot at his feet to get him to dance that jig.

    But, okay, from whose perspective was it not a human rights crusade? For the white abolitionists like John Brown it sure was. For the black slaves that weren't house niggers you can bet it sure was. But you're right that for some privileged whites it was simply about power and resources. For the large plantation owners of the south it wasn't about slavery per se, but the money they made off of it. Slave-labor crops like cotton were the economic lifeblood of the south, and the source of great wealth and power for a few. It was like what oil is to the economy today. That is what they were fighting to preserve: wealth, power and the way of life they were accustomed to. Keeping other people held to hellish lives as slaves was a means to that end. Anyhow, white people largely stopped fighting wars over abstract principles a long time ago, if they ever did. It always boils down to wealth and power one way or the other. That these people would go to war with each other for the concept of "states' rights" as a solely abstract principle is laughable.
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    Post  whir on Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:25 pm

    BKP wrote:Nevertheless, the south was standing in the way of the trend of history, which is that slavery was rightly on it's way out. Who the hell should feel that they have "right" to own another human being like a chattel animal? It is an outrageous idea, and I do take issue with anyone who supports it. Those apes would've dragged that evil institution right into the 20th century if they had their way.
    The problem is that it wasn't neither outrageous nor evil back in the day, and only started to become a political issue when the cost between free and slavery labor started to distance itself thanks to mechanisation. But it wasn't until much later, and only after decades of failed proselytism, when other catholic confessions started to position themselves against slavery trying to emulate the evangelisation efforts of catholic church that it become a moral issue for them. The humanistic approach was far from mainstream.


    Last edited by whir on Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Flagship Victory
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    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:33 pm

    whir wrote:The problem is that it wasn't neither outrageous nor evil back in the day, and only started to become a political issue when the cost between free and slavery labor started to distance itself thanks to mechanisation. But it wasn't until much later, and only after decades of failed proselytism, when other catholic confessions started to position themselves against slavery trying to emulate the evangelisation efforts of catholic church that it become a moral issue from them. The humanistic approach was far from mainstream.

    Contrary to popular belief, the south never lacked technology and mechanization. The south was profitable doing cotton business. The north was jealous and didn't want the south doing that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSS_Virginia
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:34 pm

    One of the greatest myths of US history was that the CSA were idealistic rebels fighting against northern corruption and exploitation when in truth the south was just as bad or even worse. It was a society where the absolute majority of land and  the wealth was owned by dynastical oligarchic slave owner families living in opulenece where the rest of population was landless  and living on the brink of poverty, not to mention what the slaves had to go through. In fact throughout the civil war there was a very large amount of pro-northern partisan activity done by the local population in the south.

    So that's why the donbass rebellion is no analogue to the civil war.
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    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:50 pm

    Maidan claims to have captured a Russian major transporting arms caught by Ukraine border guards. As usual, fake with no proof.

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/associated-press-ukraine-claims-russian-officer-detained-394312.html

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    Post  Erk on Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:11 pm

    JohninMK wrote:This is weird, they stop a truck apparently going into Russia with ammo! Should have sped it on its way, unless they needed it for themselves.


    DONETSK, July 26. /TASS/. Defence Ministry of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) does not have any information Ukrainian border guard stopped a KAMAZ truck loaded with ammunition, the ministry’s representative Eduard Basurin told reporters on Sunday. "I know nothing about it," he said. "Ukraine keeps making statements of the kind to have reasons to accuse Russia afterwards."

    "Ukraine’s Security Service once again is trying to accuse Russia of a military presence in Donbass," the Donetsk News Agency quoted a representative of the DPR’s military authority. "This time they have stopped a KAMAZ with ammunition. As yet, they have not presented proofs of that, apart from the claims and weird pictures of boxes with ammunition. How could they identify the so-called major? Did he have a military ID issued by the DPR? The very presence of a Russian military accompanying a shipment of ammunition by the front line causes irony only."

    Earlier on Sunday, Ukraine’s border guard said they stopped at the Berezovoye crossing station in the Donetsk region a KAMAZ truck loaded with ammunition and two military, one of which "said he was a Russian Major." The border guard said the truck had arrived from Olenevka, which is controlled by the militia.

    Later on, speaker of the Ukrainian presidential administration on the punitive mission in Donbass Alexander Motuzyanik said they were identifying the detained men. "One of them said he was a professional military of the Russian Armed Forces, a Major, and we are still to identify him, as who knows what he could say about himself," the speaker said.

    Why would a truck filled with ammo going in either direction, choose to cross at a UAF controlled checkpoint? Unless it actually wanted to be caught.

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    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:14 pm

    Erk wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:This is weird, they stop a truck apparently going into Russia with ammo! Should have sped it on its way, unless they needed it for themselves.


    DONETSK, July 26. /TASS/. Defence Ministry of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) does not have any information Ukrainian border guard stopped a KAMAZ truck loaded with ammunition, the ministry’s representative Eduard Basurin told reporters on Sunday. "I know nothing about it," he said. "Ukraine keeps making statements of the kind to have reasons to accuse Russia afterwards."

    "Ukraine’s Security Service once again is trying to accuse Russia of a military presence in Donbass," the Donetsk News Agency quoted a representative of the DPR’s military authority. "This time they have stopped a KAMAZ with ammunition. As yet, they have not presented proofs of that, apart from the claims and weird pictures of boxes with ammunition. How could they identify the so-called major? Did he have a military ID issued by the DPR? The very presence of a Russian military accompanying a shipment of ammunition by the front line causes irony only."

    Earlier on Sunday, Ukraine’s border guard said they stopped at the Berezovoye crossing station in the Donetsk region a KAMAZ truck loaded with ammunition and two military, one of which "said he was a Russian Major." The border guard said the truck had arrived from Olenevka, which is controlled by the militia.

    Later on, speaker of the Ukrainian presidential administration on the punitive mission in Donbass Alexander Motuzyanik said they were identifying the detained men. "One of them said he was a professional military of the Russian Armed Forces, a Major, and we are still to identify him, as who knows what he could say about himself," the speaker said.

    Why would a truck filled with ammo going in either direction, choose to cross at a UAF controlled checkpoint? Unless it actually wanted to be caught.


    Unless Russia is delivery ammo to Maidan Ukraine What a Face
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    Post  Godric on Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:49 pm

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:So are we supposed to feel sorry for that singer? He got what he was he looking for in a place where only one thing is to be found (eventually).

    I wasn't posted about the singer, didn't read it -- I was posting about Ukrainians getting killed

    & Right Sector leaving.

    & wondering why they left? because people was getting killed, or some other reason?

    1/misinformation ?
    2/relocated probably towards Transcarpathia/Kiev ?
    3/preparation for a coup hence no shelling of Donetsk last night ?
    4/ going to disarm ie illegal armed group (decreed by Porky) ?? highly unlikely scenario

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