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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

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    whir


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    Post  whir Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:49 pm

    Akula971 wrote:Things that might have been overlooked
    You're missing the most important one, Kiev fuelled the paranoia among their troops to unbelievable levels stating one thing and the opposite on a daily basis with all kinds of stories competing in surrealism.

    This gives an idea of the chaotic situation on the battlefield with populations changing hands several times in a row or troops getting lost by the absence of a clear frontline that was only marked by random skirmishes.

    Without first hand accounts or field reports from either side it's near impossible to know what happened accurately.

    Edit: autospelling angry.


    Last edited by whir on Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  sepheronx Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:54 pm

    Khepesh wrote:Very heavy ukrops bombardment from Avdeevka taking place, so loud that it can be heard in Gorlovka, who still wait for the usual evening grim serenade of death....

    Residents of Makeevka say it's very loud to them and not only from direction of airport and Kievsky, which is already reported, but from Yasinovataya. No reports from Yasinovataya yet.

    From Putilovka they say that the bombardment of them has been continuous for twenty minutes. Usually these bombardments are of not like artillery bombardment before an attack, but a few shells land, or sometimes a volley from an entire battery, then silence for a little while before some more. So continuous is unusual.

    I dont understand the PUkrainians objective. Attack and hoping to be attacked by rebels? Why? Especially when they have their so called freedom loving maidainauts from RS and other nazibrigades, protesting and having fun loving shootouts in Transcarpathia. In hopes to unites the people and nazis again against the NaF?

    Stupid.
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:58 pm

    Its all over the place now as the 'hate Russia' campaign builds up again. So, a big MH-17 article in the UK's Telegraph today. This is a bit of it. Their conclusion on the last line of their report, Putin did it.

    But as the anniversary approaches, the tragedy of MH17 is likely to take centre stage in a geopolitical confrontation between Russia and the West.

    Two official investigations into the MH17 disaster - a technical air accident inquiry led by the Dutch Safety Board, and a separate criminal investigation by Dutch, Australian, Belgian, Malaysian and Ukrainian detectives - are under way. The Safety Board is expected to release its final report in October. The criminal investigation is expected to run on at least until the end of the year.

    Wim de Bruin, a spokesman for the Dutch chief prosecutor's office, declined to discuss details but said the criminal investigation's final dossier for the court would give a "detailed account of what happened". "We didn't expect to get as far as we are now," he said. "There will be charges of murder and possibly charges of war crimes."

    Malaysian and Dutch diplomats at the United Nations have drafted a resolution to create an international tribunal to bring to justice those responsible. Russia has hinted it might veto such a move, describing the idea as “premature”.


    Full article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11732678/One-year-on-MH17-evidence-against-separatists-appears-overwhelming.html
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 27 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  JohninMK Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:02 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:Very heavy ukrops bombardment from Avdeevka taking place, so loud that it can be heard in Gorlovka, who still wait for the usual evening grim serenade of death....

    Residents of Makeevka say it's very loud to them and not only from direction of airport and Kievsky, which is already reported, but from Yasinovataya. No reports from Yasinovataya yet.

    From Putilovka they say that the bombardment of them has been continuous for twenty minutes. Usually these bombardments are of not like artillery bombardment before an attack, but a few shells land, or sometimes a volley from an entire battery, then silence for a little while before some more. So continuous is unusual.

    I dont understand the PUkrainians objective. Attack and hoping to be attacked by rebels? Why? Especially when they have their so called freedom loving maidainauts from RS and other nazibrigades, protesting and having fun loving shootouts in Transcarpathia. In hopes to unites the people and nazis again against the NaF?

    Stupid.
    Not stupid, they are intentionally destroying infrastructure and displacing the population. Also one suspects that it is to give the troops at the front something to do, to keep them and the logistics tail active, rather than have them sitting round getting bored and a suntan. Anyway, nothing many young lads like doing more than a bit of vandalism.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:24 pm

    auslander wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:Very heavy ukrops bombardment from Avdeevka taking place, so loud that it can be heard in Gorlovka, who still wait for the usual evening grim serenade of death....

    Residents of Makeevka say it's very loud to them and not only from direction of airport and Kievsky, which is already reported, but from Yasinovataya. No reports from Yasinovataya yet.

    From Putilovka they say that the bombardment of them has been continuous for twenty minutes. Usually these bombardments are of not like artillery bombardment before an attack, but a few shells land, or sometimes a volley from an entire battery, then silence for a little while before some more. So continuous is unusual.

    The storm clouds gather, as do the clans. We are ready but they, not we, must attack.

    Maidan will never attack. They too chicken for that. cheers
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:37 pm

    sepheronx wrote:.......................................

    I dont understand the PUkrainians objective. Attack and hoping to be attacked by rebels? Why? Especially when they have their so called freedom loving maidainauts from RS and other nazibrigades, protesting and having fun loving shootouts in Transcarpathia. In hopes to unites the people and nazis again against the NaF?

    Stupid.

    You answered your own question.

    Nazis are going rogue and Kiev needs distraction fast to get them all back in line.
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:49 pm

    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:It was option back then but someone decided to put petty politics and personal interest above law and justice and to pussyfoot around a very dangerous problem.

    Cutting off Ukraine was not an acceptable option in the 1990s and 2000s. The strategic dependency on Ukraine was too large.

    I meant late 1940s or 1950s

    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:Same thing happened in former Yugoslavia after WWII with same results.

    What exactly did the Yugoslavs wrong?

    During WW2 there were many atrocities committed by members of ethnic groups who collaborated with Nazis.

    After war ended those crimes were swept under the rug by commies in order not to stir ethnic tensions (according to them). That concept was called "brotherhood and unity". Crimes were not investigated and criminals got away with it scott-free.

    Perpetrators and families of victims often had to live next door to each other and pretend everything was fine. Commies thought  that everything will be forgotten. No one forgot...

    Then 90s happened and you know the rest.


    Last edited by PapaDragon on Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Akula971 Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:52 pm

    whir wrote:
    Akula971 wrote:Things that might have been overlooked
    You're missing the most important one, Kiev fuelled the paranoia among their troops to unavailable levels stating one thing and the opposite on a daily basics with all kinds of stories competing in surrealism.

    This gives an idea of the chaotic situation on the battlefield with populations changing hands several times in a row or troops getting lost by the absence of a clear frontline that was only marked by random skirmishes.

    Without first hand accounts or field reports from either side it's near impossible to know what happened accurately.

    Well that was the motivation behind my post, to post whatever was already there. Because disinfo, paranoia are prevalent while actual eyewitness accounts and SOLID data and proofs are not. I just want to share what is SOLID intel so we can deduce some sense out of it.
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    Post  gregoire Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:54 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:Very heavy ukrops bombardment from Avdeevka taking place, so loud that it can be heard in Gorlovka, who still wait for the usual evening grim serenade of death....

    Residents of Makeevka say it's very loud to them and not only from direction of airport and Kievsky, which is already reported, but from Yasinovataya. No reports from Yasinovataya yet.

    From Putilovka they say that the bombardment of them has been continuous for twenty minutes. Usually these bombardments are of not like artillery bombardment before an attack, but a few shells land, or sometimes a volley from an entire battery, then silence for a little while before some more. So continuous is unusual.

    I dont understand the PUkrainians objective. Attack and hoping to be attacked by rebels? Why? Especially when they have their so called freedom loving maidainauts from RS and other nazibrigades, protesting and having fun loving shootouts in Transcarpathia. In hopes to unites the people and nazis again against the NaF?

    Stupid.
    Not stupid, they are intentionally destroying infrastructure and displacing the population. Also one suspects that it is to give the troops at the front something to do, to keep them and the logistics tail active, rather than have them sitting round getting bored and a suntan. Anyway, nothing many young lads like doing more than a bit of vandalism.

    I agree. They are having war in slow motion. Intentionally targeting essential infrastructure and everything that makes a city or village work. They are clearly getting directions because they never could have the intel to bomb effectively. The raids are to check the NAF's reaction time and vulnerabilities. Of course this is a 2 way street and the NAF is getting plenty of information back. Besides, defense is easier than offense unless offense is of the overwhelming nature the west loves so much. They will be matched in kind no matter what they throw at the NAF. But there is unrest in the UAF and in kiev so things won't keep on going the way it does. Something's got to give.
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:08 pm

    Don't you wish you could be a fly on the wall? Hard US bankers verses desperate Ukrainians. A $129M interest payment coming up next Friday, the 24th, will no doubt concentrate their minds.

    KIEV (Sputnik) – Kiev has agreed to meetings with its creditors next week to come to a final solution to its outstanding foreign debt, the Ukrainian Finance Ministry said in a statement on Thursday. “Additional meetings between the two parties are planned for next week with the single goal of finalizing the conditions of Ukraine’s debt situation as soon as possible,” the statement reads.

    The conflict between Kiev forces and independence supporters in the eastern part of the country erupted in April 2014 and has left Ukraine on the brink of default. The country's currency, the hryvnia, has significantly dropped in value since that time.

    Ukraine’s overall debt stands at $70 billion, of which some $40 billion is owed to international money lenders.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/business/20150716/1024691384.html#ixzz3g5RRnSt6
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    Post  whir Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:16 pm

    Sputnik wrote:Most Corrupt US Agency to Go to Ukraine to Help Kiev Fight Corruption
    EUROPE 21:22 16.07.2015

    Representatives from the US Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Agency will go to Ukraine for an exchange program to share their experience with Ukrainian colleagues, news portal Ruposters.ru reported, citing Roman Nasirov, Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada Committee on Taxation and Customs Policy.

    The US delegation is expected to share their knowledge and technical expertise with Ukrainian Customs officers.

    "We agreed that over the next two months US customs officers will arrive and work in Kiev and Odessa customs offices and share their experience," Nasirov said, as quoted by the source.

    The Ukrainian parliament is trying to combat large scale corruption in the country. Last year, Ukraine was ranked 142nd (tied with Uganda and the Comoros Islands) on the list of the most corrupt countries in the world, conducted by Transparency International (TI). Corruption exists in many spheres of Ukrainian public services, but the most corrupt are the legal system, the police and the health services, as well as the parliament itself, according to TI. Continue reading.
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    Post  Regular Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:28 pm

    Breaking news, it was revealed that MH-17 was taken down by Praviy Sektor suicide bomber abroad the plane Very Happy
    Haha, seriously any news about the investigation? There is a video of seps digging through lugagge, but I can't find it. Does it incriminate anyone?
    Shit way to die, but if You die You won't really need an iphone anymore, so boo hoo, it's war, people need stuff from clothes to electronics. I would rather try to find food troley and I would hope food there wouldn't have human bits in it. Don't forget, conflict was at full swing and ukraine was squeezing it hard, humanitarian aid was non existant. Looting = survival


    Last edited by Regular on Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  whir Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:31 pm

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 27 UJw1raV
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 27 O3ypkr7
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 27 PoqmyNm
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 27 Jy8diCL
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:33 pm

    Regular wrote:Breaking news, it was revealed that MH-17 was taken down by Praviy Sektor suicide bomber abroad the plane Very Happy
    Haha, seriously any news about the investigation? There is a video of seps digging through seps, but I seem not to find it. Does it incriminate anyone? Shit way to die, but if You die You won't really need an iphone anymore, so boo hoo
    Any news? Are you joking? The place is awash with the stuff, building up a head of anti Russian (of course it was them) sh*t.

    Its all proven to be without doubt the Russians, no wait the Seps, no it was the UA, hold on the Israelis!!! Who knows if we will ever know.
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    Post  2SPOOKY4U Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:34 pm

    whir wrote:
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 27 UJw1raV

    Holy Suppressors Batman,

    was this taken off of Novorussian social media?
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    Post  Regular Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:35 pm

    whir wrote:The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 27 UJw1raV
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 27 O3ypkr7
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 27 PoqmyNm
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 27 Jy8diCL
    Looted from Soviet era Ukrainian army reserves ofcourse. Putin betrayed Novorosiya. Flagship©
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:37 pm

    whir wrote:The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 27 UJw1raV
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 27 PoqmyNm
    The same guy, first in July 2014 second in July 2015, aged a bit?
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    Post  whir Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:41 pm

    Regular wrote:Breaking news, it was revealed that MH-17 was taken down by Praviy Sektor suicide bomber abroad the plane Very Happy
    Haha, seriously any news about the investigation? There is a video of seps digging through seps, but I seem not to find it. Does it incriminate anyone? Shit way to die, but if You die You won't really need an iPhone anymore, so boo hoo, it's war, people need stuff from clothes to electronics.
    Don't talk shit, rebels and local rescue services collected two full midsize trucks full of belongings from the passengers, including all kinds of electronics, that were given to investigators.

    Is this video you're talking about? It was posted on YouTube but taken down immediately.

    News AU wrote:Never-before-seen footage reveals Russian-backed rebels arriving at the wreckage of MH17
    7 HOURS AGO JULY 17, 2015 12:01AM

    EXCLUSIVE

    USSIAN-backed rebels in Ukraine’s east believed they had shot down a Ukraine Airforce fighter jet as disturbing new footage shows them ransacking the luggage of passengers and crew from Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17.

    A year ago today, 298 passengers and crew including 38 Australian citizens and residents died aboard the Kuala Lumpur bound commercial flight after it was shot down over east Ukraine, 40km from the Russian border. Continue reading.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:47 pm

    whir wrote:The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 27 UJw1raV
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 27 O3ypkr7
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 27 PoqmyNm
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 27 Jy8diCL

    What guns are these? cheers
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    Post  whir Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:50 pm

    2SPOOKY4U wrote:was this taken off of Novorussian social media?
    More than probable, although I've borrowed looted them from Ukrainian sources.

    JohninMK wrote:The same guy, first in July 2014 second in July 2015, aged a bit?
    I don't think so, look at the mattresses over the right side and the dirt marks on the floor, they are identical.

    Flagship Victory wrote:What guns are these? cheers
    From top to bottom:
    VSSK
    SV-98
    SR-3M
    and VSSK
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    Post  Flagship Victory Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:01 pm

    whir wrote:
    VSSK
    SV-98
    SR-3M
    and VSSK

    Gracias. cheers
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:10 pm

    whir wrote:The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 27 UJw1raV
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 27 O3ypkr7
    ...................................

    Freakin' Chinese Army has to go on waiting list to get those monsters... russia

    This is clear proof that Russia refuses to supply NAF... Flagship Haushofer has been vindicated lol1
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    Post  Flagship Victory Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:13 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:Freakin' Chinese Army has to go on waiting list to get those monsters... russia

    This is clear proof that Russia refuses to supply NAF... Flagship Haushofer has been vindicated  lol1

    China needs Russian arms? scratch

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 27 Rdn_516360b150185



    Last edited by Flagship Victory on Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:17 pm

    whir wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:The same guy, first in July 2014 second in July 2015, aged a bit?
    I don't think so, look at the mattresses over the right side and the dirt marks on the floor, they are identical.

    It was a joke Smile
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    Post  OminousSpudd Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:28 pm

    whir wrote:
    Rodinazombie wrote:Has anyone seen about strelkov being sued by the families of people who died on mh17 for 900 million?

    So none of the investigations have been finished yet and they already know who to sue? And what about the ukrainian government/the airline for allowing flights over an area where planes were shot down on a daily basis at this time?

    I don't blame the families, they just want justice, my problem is with the people who have guided them and the system which has allowed this.
    This has happened in Chicago where someone sued Iran over Hamas bombing and won. Probably those relatives have been advised to follow the example hoping to receive some kind of compensation in the future but this is hardly a case for universal jurisdiction.

    If someone has not read it:

    The Telegraph wrote:MH17: Russian separatist leader sued for $900 million by crash victims
    By David Millward, US Correspondent2:00AM BST 16 Jul 2015

    Exclusive: Igor Girkin formally accused of orchestrating the shooting down of the Malaysia Airlines flight in east Ukraine

    Igor Girkin, the leader of Russian separatist forces in eastern Ukraine, was on Wednesday formally accused of orchestrating the shooting down of the Malaysia Airlines flight, MH17, in July last year.

    A writ filed in Chicago also alleges that Mr Girkin was acting with the blessing of the Kremlin when his forces fired at the Boeing 777 en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.

    The case has been brought on behalf of the families of 18 of the passengers on board the aircraft, including six Britons.
    They are claiming a total of $900 million (£575 million).

    In all 298 people died when a missile was fired at the aircraft as it flew over eastern Ukraine. Continue reading.

    What a bunch of total zombies. If I had lost a family member on that plane I would be heavily investigating it, even if it was just through the internet...

    Any reasonable thinking individual would soon discover that it is highly unlikely rebel forces shot the aircraft down. This is an emotional knee-jerk reaction fueled by third-party encouragement.

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