The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

Mr Macros wrote:Helicopter Mukachevo 12.07.2015

auslander wrote:A few tiny articles have appeared in west media, most saying the violence was at a sports club and saying that one side had on Right Sector insignia and that the 'violence' started from an 'arguement'. Last one I looked at, AP, said something to the effect of the orcs say it's VVP behind the unrest. Nothing like living in a parallel universe, is there.

auslander wrote:This mess will calm down when one side blinks and not before. We'll see how far our brave and resourceful soldier Yarosh pushes on what may become yet another coup, or how determined our sweet, kind and gentle reformer Poroshenko is to retain power. In the end I think Langley will make the decision as to who is swinging from the lamp post.

On the other hand Kiev can not prosecute a two, or possibly three, front war, they can't even do anything besides kill civilians in Donbass. I am like a lot of you, the popcorn is ready, just got some more beer and I'll pay some attention to this as the evening wears on while I work.

whir wrote:

Типичный Киев wrote:Our police have cares. Six police for 6 minutes per person to be detained.

Алексей Карангин via YouTube comments wrote:The courage and consummate professionalism 4 !!!!! Kiev police seizure of spoons from the homeless deserves respect. Guys, how much you would have to, if he had a knife?

Neutrality wrote:EDIT: So apparently it's just cheaper to have them registered on EU license plates.

Regular wrote:Fuck sake I see those motherfuckers were trained in USA
Not much have changed, but uniforms

Факти ICTV wrote:The militants preparing to attack a Avdiyivka

MeetKi wrote:Ukrainian ICTV channel for some mysterious reasons promulgated material that cardinally, not in harmony with the general propaganda in this country where any alternative opinion declared "high treason." ICTV posted an interview with a soldier of the Ukrainian army, in which he acknowledges that the positions Armed Forces of Ukraine in Avdeevka are in the residential sector and subjected to grave danger civilians.
He said that in particular, the position of the battalion located midway between the five-story house and nine-story house.
In addition, "the liberator" complained to reporters that, despite the fact that the positions of Armed Forces of Ukraine are hidden between the apartment buildings, the separatists cover their positions very accurately and at all work professionally. Soldiers also suspects that the fire separatists coordinate local residents. Ukrainian occupier also stressed that local residents overwhelmingly separatists, and hate the Ukrainian army. I do not hide that they consider her an occupying.
"They work well as snipers and their intelligence, they see us, they know our every move. To them help the local residents. Local give them a clear position there, they taught them that ... they know exactly square ... They there most 80 percent - the separatists. They openly say: "We support our own, waiting for ours." We are for them there as conquerors. We came as some dill. They hate us there. There is very few of those pro-Ukrainian ... "- confessed Ukrainian Soldiers.

flamming_python wrote:

The video-shooters are shouting 'Hanba!'; which is Polish (and I presume Ukrainian too) for 'Shame!'

So they are trying to shame the Ukrop Army who are going after the Pravyj Sektor criminals?
Pravyj Sektor supporters? Or is it just that everyone there sympathises with Pravyj Sektor?

Khepesh wrote:Large scale evacuation of Donetsk city begins due to bombardment and problems with maintaining essential services. The first batch of 500, of the most vulnerable, have left. This will be from the western districts, primarily Kuibishevsky which has suffered most.

Ispan wrote:Ok first little contribution here. Back in october, in another thread in another forum, Khepesh and I talked about the significance of photos of the graves of unknown Ukranian soldier and if the registry number shown in pictures meant that the Ukranian side had buried the remains of 6,500 unknown soldiers.  Khepesh found out that it was indeed a correlative tally. A couple weeks ago another graveyard picture appeared and the total had climbed out to 7,500 by spring. There were also a leak to a German newspaper from German intelligence that the real casualties of the war in Ukraine were around 50,000, roughly broken down as follows:

20,000 Ukranian troops dead, probably half that number Novorussian combatants, and 20,000 civilian dead.

Such a proportion of unknown dead is staggering and despite that statistics tell me that those numbers are plausible I sometimes have misgivings and think I might have been exagerating casualties. The casualty reports of the constant skirmishing and shelling during "quiet" periods barely reach the 100 daily casualties minimum from my calculations, though that could only meant that most of the slaughter takes place during major battles.

I have read numerous reports of Ukranian sources that they admit to hundreds of wounded when there is a major fight, and that everybody knows Ukranian dead are many times more than the junta reports. I know a Spaniard living in south Ukraine, that tells me he finds my data entirely believable, if he extrapolates from the number of wounded arriving at hospitals, and memorial servives held for the dead.

Still, I would like some other confirmation about the high number of unknown dead, and I got it. I work in a multinational company, and per chance I ended up talking about the war in Ukraine to some of my coworkers. One of my workmates,s, young people in their 20s. One of them, a girl from Bulgaria, was rather pro Ukraine, and skeptical about my pro Russian stance but suddenly her attention perked up and she changed her mind when I talked about the number of unknown dead Ukranian soldiers. She has a girl friend from Ukraine and she told me that her friend had mentioned that: than in her town, young guys, boyfriends, former schoolmates, are called up to serve in the army, and  a lot of them are not seen again and nothing is heard from them. They simply vanish. And that's in addition to those that are known to be killed and have a burial service.

I know is a second hand testimony, but it fits with all the other pieces of the puzzle. Ukranian army has suffered huge losses in personnel and equipment, and is now mostly made up of reluctant conscripts with low morale, wich makes it beg the question of why the Novorussians haven't launched an offensive to liberate their territory, specially since the Minsk talks lead to nowhere and do not give the Donbass population anything of measurable value, not even peace.

franco wrote:

whir wrote:

Mr Macros wrote:Helicopter Mukachevo 12.07.2015

Could be Yarosh, there are reports that he has helicoptered out there.

Ispan wrote:Ok first little contribution here. Back in october, in another thread in another forum, Khepesh and I talked about the significance of photos of the graves of unknown Ukranian soldier and if the registry number shown in pictures meant that the Ukranian side had buried the remains of 6,500 unknown soldiers.  Khepesh found out that it was indeed a correlative tally. A couple weeks ago another graveyard picture appeared and the total had climbed out to 7,500 by spring.

Khepesh wrote:Interesting news and moves the situation further. Reported that Yarosh has ordered pravy sector forces involved in the ATO to withdraw from Donbass and move to Western Ukraine http://112.ua/obshchestvo/boycy-pravogo-sektora-po-prikazu-yarosha-pokinuli-pozicii-v-zone-ato-na-donbasse-ps-244335.html Also reported, and not all this is in the link, that pravy sektor has called on Ukranian Army to essentially mutiny and stop taking orders from Poroshenko. It would be good if this was all true or became true, but seems to much a good dream to be true. I suspect that tho it will attract some attention they do not want, Kiev will soon enough show pravy sektor the limits of what they can get away with. If this continues and pravy sektor continue to control the news and debate, then Poroshenko is fucked, surely.

Khepesh wrote:Some further news, and this is all from what pravy sektor themselves are saying. The two front battalions, "Azov" and "Donbass" are said to withdraw and under radio silence, and a threat issued that pravy sektor will deploy the reserves battalions, about 18 or 19, to wherever they are needed. I would presume that these reserve battalions, if that many really exist, will be total useless scum.

I don't even want to repeat anything about this that appears on the Novorossiya supporting networks other than to say it is euphoric, and perhaps far too much so and there may be a headache tomorrow, but this is the moment, lets enjoy, cheer, wave the sabre and charge while the sun shines

JohninMK wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Some further news, and this is all from what pravy sektor themselves are saying. The two front battalions, "Azov" and "Donbass" are said to withdraw and under radio silence, and a threat issued that pravy sektor will deploy the reserves battalions, about 18 or 19, to wherever they are needed. I would presume that these reserve battalions, if that many really exist, will be total useless scum.

I don't even want to repeat anything about this that appears on the Novorossiya supporting networks other than to say it is euphoric, and perhaps far too much so and there may be a headache tomorrow, but this is the moment, lets enjoy, cheer, wave the sabre and charge while the sun shines

Won't the logistics be impossible? From east to west is a long way and they will need transports, food and fuel, unless they 'requisition' it as they travel.

The reserve battalions are likely to leave a trail of devastation as well.

Rodinazombie wrote:^^^^^

I really cant see it going that far just yet, i think yarosh will be getting a phonecall from the US ambassador before long and normality will resume.

Things are moving in the right direction though,this is definitely a sign of things to come.

I say good, let the 'ATO' come home to western ukraine, let them feel what donbass has been going through over the past year.