The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

I think a solution, maybe only tempory, to the Mukachevo problem has been found. Head of Transcarpathia oblast has said that it is likely there will be no assault on pravy sektor at Mukachevo as there is nobody there to assault, they are gone. The two pravy sektor who had surrendered earlier were in fact wounded so it is not surprising they surrendered. To me it is clear that pravy sektor at Mukachevo have been allowed to escape in order to defuse the worst of the problem, which will now be ignored, until the next incident. http://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/2113490

Khepesh wrote:Perhaps an appropriate moment to post the latest video of VSN tank battalion "Diesel"

Rebels are starting to look a professional army more and more. Almost hard to tell them apart from the Russian Army circa 2000s.

Poro has surfaced, no connection with the situation now being defused of course.


Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko will gather a War Cabinet on July 13 following the shootout in the western Mukachevo, Ukrainian Presidential Press Secretary Svyatoslav Tsegolko said Monday.

KIEV (Sputnik) — Earlier on Saturday, the Right Sector began protests in several Ukrainian cities, including Kiev and Lviv after the movement members exchanged fire with police in the Ukrainian southwestern city of Mukachevo.

"The events in Mukachevo will be the main theme of a War Cabinet, which the president will hold on Monday. Let me remind you that the War Cabinet is a working body of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine," Tsegolko wrote in his official account on Facebook.

At least three people died and about 10 were injured as a result of the shootout, according to the Ukrainian security forces estimates.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150713/1024535784.html#ixzz3figcyRBW

Crap, I hopped over the border to Hungary for one day to soak my hyde in mineral water, catch some rays and hassle bikini clad wenches.

I come back, fire up the forum and find seven pages of pure awesomeness.

Why did you start the party without me guys? I thought we were friends...

PapaDragon wrote:Crap, I hopped over the border to Hungary for one day to soak my hyde in mineral water, catch some rays and hassle bikini clad wenches.

I come back, fire up the forum and find seven pages of pure awesomeness.

Why did you start the party without me guys? I thought we were friends...

Hey while you are over there can you go peak across the border? We could always use a correspondent from the front lines.

Ivan the Colorado wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:Crap, I hopped over the border to Hungary for one day to soak my hyde in mineral water, catch some rays and hassle bikini clad wenches.

I come back, fire up the forum and find seven pages of pure awesomeness.

Why did you start the party without me guys? I thought we were friends...

Hey while you are over there can you go peak across the border? We could always use a correspondent from the front lines.

No luck buddy, it was one day trip and I was on opposite end of Hungary. Ukraine is not really hot topic in bars over there.

Shame, I missed biggest scoop since Debaltsevo... bummer...

PapaDragon wrote:

Ivan the Colorado wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:Crap, I hopped over the border to Hungary for one day to soak my hyde in mineral water, catch some rays and hassle bikini clad wenches.

I come back, fire up the forum and find seven pages of pure awesomeness.

Why did you start the party without me guys? I thought we were friends...

Hey while you are over there can you go peak across the border? We could always use a correspondent from the front lines.

No luck buddy, it was one day trip and I was on opposite end of Hungary. Ukraine is not really hot topic in bars over there.

Shame, I missed biggest scoop since Debaltsevo... bummer...

Fair enough. I wouldn't fret just yet, the show ain't over yet (maybe just getting started). So let's all heat up our popcorn and hope this shall be the biggest summer blockbuster of the year!

Regarding the events in winter of 2014 when the police started to disperse the protestors. Apparently the Canadian embassy gave shelter to several protestors who were being chased and sought after the Kiev police. RBK mentions (quoting the source) that one of the protestors showed a Canadian passport and was shortly granted access to the embassy, along with several others. This also probably explains why there was a short rally in front of the American embassy.

Anyone with deep knowledge of international law? Isn't this breach of neutrality that any embassy within a certain country should maintain? IMHO if you shelter criminals then you are subject to the laws of the host country. If the embassy refuses to hand over the subjects AND doesn't allow the police to enter then its responsible for its own safety too.

What i have been saying about in war . truth is the first Victim?

Lets see ladies and gentlemans who are behind ISIS Public relations terror Campaign..



and here is the video .. the actual montage ,how it was displayed by CNN..  




Many of the videos of beheading videos of ISIS , are not actually filmed in the middle
east.. but in Western Film studios.. in connection with Senator MCain..

This does not means ISIS are fake.. they are terrorist.and they behead people all the time..
it only means that the Public relations terror many times is being handled by the CIA..  
specially the ones you see many Guantanamo like uniforms ,all clean ,brand new.. like taken from a Guantanamo store..Are nothing less than CIA Terror propaganda.. seeking to manipulate americans into the need of US interfering in middle east.

apparently it was Ukrainians CyberBerkut  who hacked the computers of Senator mcAIN staff when visit Ukraine.. and found those very interesting videos..  


http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/07/11/staged-isis-beheading-video-hacked-from-mccain-staffer/

reported the scandal of fake McAIN-CIA behedings by SPutnik france news too..
http://fr.sputniknews.com/international/20150711/1016963919.html

Probably the same studios they used to film the apollo moon landing..  

THis is what i call ,being caught with their pants down.. in a Fraudulent Propaganda..
like "FUck the EU" scandal  of Nuland.. And Such videos are later passed to CNN/BBC and all NATO media.. "as Proof".. that NATO need to interfere before its too late.. when in reality they are the ones fueling the violence and providing training and weapons to Criminal Extremist.. not only in Syria and Iraq.. but also Ukraine.

What you see there.. is actually Very Normal way of Operating western Intelligence agencies . This is very normal.. Deceiving and manipulating people opinion is part of their strategy.
To make sure they get citizens in the west.. to do what the US and NATO wants.. So
people need always to be highly skeptic of any video being promoted in CNN or BBC ,Reuters or even VICE and that they get an exclusive.  

The ukrainian conflict people need to be aware about Terror Propaganda too..or false flags like
Mh-17 malasyan plane... in Ukraine that seeks to either demonize Russia or to provoke Russia into invading.. The CIA and MI6  and Mossad are trying to promote a war against Syria and isolation and containment of Russia , and all this holywood propaganda is part of the Public relations tools, the western agencies use.. Zarashenko have several times already warning.. that they intelligence sources inside Ukraine ,have seen Ultra nationalist.. using the uniforms of Russia army. trying to pass as Russian Soldiers.

In the Odessa massacre for example there are reports that many of the burned people ,
the closer investigation shows ,many of them died before being burned ,in another place..
killed by a bullet and were later moved inside the building for a bigger impact of the massacre..
The Snipers in Kiev that shoot at both sides is another example of deception.. and later blame it
on Berkut  police.

people will never believe how much Bullshit US government is ready to pull ,in order to get
justified for their military actions..    take a look at how they reported the first gulf war..

It has been noticed that in one of the reports from Mukachevo appeared Kamil Valetov from "Dnepr". He was one of the men who took part in the video conferences with Mozgovoi. I wonder what he was doing there, and I wonder if a single word we have been told about this affair from Kiev side has been even close to the truth, and while it is not doubted that Lano and his accomplices are crimminal scum abusing their authority, were those who attacked them simply other crimminal scum wanting a shootout for control of smuggling activities?, I don't know, and like these curious IS videos, cannot take anything at face value.

Mutiny in the Ukrainian army?

Neutrality wrote:Regarding the events in winter of 2014 when the police started to disperse the protestors. Apparently the Canadian embassy gave shelter to several protestors who were being chased and sought after the Kiev police. RBK mentions (quoting the source) that one of the protestors showed a Canadian passport and was shortly granted access to the embassy, along with several others. This also probably explains why there was a short rally in front of the American embassy.

Anyone with deep knowledge of international law? Isn't this breach of neutrality that any embassy within a certain country should maintain? IMHO if you shelter criminals then you are subject to the laws of the host country. If the embassy refuses to hand over the subjects AND doesn't allow the police to enter then its responsible for its own safety too.

Don't need a lot of knowledge. An embassy is the sovereign territory of the country concerned. Get inside and you are subject to that country's laws not the host. Could be a problem getting out again tho' if you are wanted in the host. Getting can sometimes also be a problem.

In the UK we have Assange holed up in the Ecuador embassy and it is costing us a fortune guarding the place to make sure he does not slip out.

Head of Ukranian side of Joint  Centre for Monitoring and Coordination for the "ceasefire", Major General Andrei Taran, has been arrested for high treason. A pity, but there will be more senior officer "traitors" yet undiscovered. Perhaps they will decide to act before it is too late and we will after all see a coup, but I'm not betting on this. Since last week an unending series of "stuff happening" and odd news.... http://russian.rt.com/article/103075

Edit: Tho the report simply states that he was dismissed, it can be reasonably extrapolated that you do not let a senior general found to be a "traitor" keep his freedom. General Taran was also deputy chief of defence intelligence according to Lysenko. If so, and there is no reason to think Lysenko would lie about this, then he would have had access to the highest grade and fully up to date intelligence.

Latest on this involves word of hacked twitter accounts and such, so maybe all is not as it seems, as usual....

Right Sector Terrorists take six year old boy hostage in Zakarpaty

http://russian.rt.com/article/103100

President of Ukraine Petr Poroshenko instructed the heads of the Interior Ministry and Security Service to report on the situation surrounding the seizure of the child hostage thriller "Right Sector" in Transcarpathia.
13/07/2015, 14:34
"The Minister of the Interior (Arsen Avakov) and chairman of the Security Service (Vasily Gritsak) informed the President about the situation surrounding the kidnapping six year old boy in the Transcarpathian region. The President took the emergency situation under personal control and instructed to make every effort to secure his release, "- he wrote the press secretary of the president of Ukraine Svyatoslav Tsegolko in his microblog on Twitter.


Original news RT in Russian:
http://russian.rt.com/article/103100

I make no apologies for using the word terrorist, right sector are the closest thing to terrorists in ukraine, and should be treated as such.

I just want to throw this idea into the wind, not serious, but the situation is now so bizarre that anything seems possible.

So, no matter what Poroshenko and his handlers say, Donbass is lost forever to Kiev, and when he is sober I guess that he knows this. The ATO continues because Washington wants it to and Poroshenko dare not stop it. But now with the situation regarding pravy sektor, the reality of the true state of Ukraine may cause people to sober up and realise that Donbass and the ATO is an uneccesary distraction and that they need to fight for what is left of Ukraine. We cannot see the future, and certainly did not see the current crisis/tragic comedy of Mukachevo erupting, but dare we begin to think that sooner than expected the ATO will end and DNR and LNR regain all their territory. There will be some bizarre political, diplomatic and mental contortions on behalf of Kiev to acheive this, but they stare into the abys, and Poroshenko may see that he will not be supported by Washington much longer no matter what, and he needs to fight for survival in a country that will tear itself apart.



Soon?


and....

^^^^

I think we dont yet truly know how big a punch right sector can pull, RS and porky have danced around each other quite a few times now but none has really dared to call the others bluff so far.

Porkies hesitancy may more to do with his own lack of balls rather than the strength of RS, im sure RS could be crushed if needs be, but whether ukrainian forces will have the stomach for fighting their own uber patriotic brothers is another question. RS may not be the entity that splits the government in itself, but may form the catalyst for other powers to come into play.

Rodinazombie wrote:^^^^

I think we dont yet truly know how big a punch right sector can pull, RS and porky have danced around each other quite a few times now but none has really dared to call the others bluff so far.

Porkies hesitancy may more to do with his own lack of balls rather than the strength of RS, im sure RS could be crushed if needs be, but whether ukrainian forces will have the stomach for fighting their own uber patriotic brothers is another question.  RS may not be the entity that splits the government  in itself, but may form the catalyst for other powers to come into play.

Catalyst. If serious fighting erupts in west or even central Ukraine then I think that will be the end of ATO. The silence of scum like Tyagnibok is interesting.

And these last weeks DNR/LNR have almost fallen over in desire to seem meak and mild and as passive as possible. If plan is truely cunning, then nobody will no what it is or even suspect what it could be, the end result maybe, but not how. I don't know, but it's all so odd now....

Khepesh wrote:I just want to throw this idea into the wind, not serious, but the situation is now so bizarre that anything seems possible.

So, no matter what Poroshenko and his handlers say, Donbass is lost forever to Kiev, and when he is sober I guess that he knows this. The ATO continues because Washington wants it to and Poroshenko dare not stop it. But now with the situation regarding pravy sektor, the reality of the true state of Ukraine may cause people to sober up and realise that Donbass and the ATO is an uneccesary distraction and that they need to fight for what is left of Ukraine. We cannot see the future, and certainly did not see the current crisis/tragic comedy of Mukachevo erupting, but dare we begin to think that sooner than expected the ATO will end and DNR and LNR regain all their territory. There will be some bizarre political, diplomatic and mental contortions on behalf of Kiev to acheive this, but they stare into the abys, and Poroshenko may see that he will not be supported by Washington much longer no matter what, and he needs to fight for survival in a country that will tear itself apart.

Well to be honest with you, it was foreseeable. Most knew sooner or later it would boomerang back but no one knew how, where and when. Let's be logical here and understand what's happening right now: Right Sector proves yet again that they are nothing but a bunch of criminals hiding behind the "heroes of Ukraine" veil. Poroshenko's dilemma is as follows: Continue to cooperate with them because he needs sympathy and soldiers for the ATO, showing Ukrainian citizens what kind of scum he's ready to be friends with. Or not to deal with Right Sector and lose the aforementioned benefits.

If he goes for the first scenario then he's going to lose sympathy from his own people and people will (hopefully) most likely start to openly rebel against him and let's say hypothetically Mukachevo or any similar city in either Western or Central Ukraine becomes another Slovyansk. What's he going to do? Start another ATO? He's going to commit political seppuku with that and I'm 100% this will start the process of the country breaking apart oblast by oblast.

If he goes for scenario #2. Well, this isn't so hard to guess either. It's happening right now already. Blocking training camps in Lviv oblast, mobilizing the National Guard and if things really go south, bring in the army. So they will start an open war against Right Sector and lose the necessary people to fight the ATO in Eastern Ukraine. I predict a war between VSU and volunteer battalions in the Eastern ATO if this happens too. The VSU will probably realize OR get the command to eliminate these battalions. We can only guess what the NAF are going to do in case this happens. Personally I hope they make some sort of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" kind of thing, work out a deal and eliminate them together. Perhaps the shelling of Donetsk can be stopped this way.

As you can see the scumbag (Poroshenko) is caught between 2 walls which is why he gathered the SNBO. He doesn't know what to do so he's asking people who are just as clueless what to do. No sympathy for him. I hope he realizes what's coming at him. You're right Khepesh. Poroshenko stares into the abyss, and the abyss stares back at him.

Khepesh wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:^^^^

I think we dont yet truly know how big a punch right sector can pull, RS and porky have danced around each other quite a few times now but none has really dared to call the others bluff so far.

Porkies hesitancy may more to do with his own lack of balls rather than the strength of RS, im sure RS could be crushed if needs be, but whether ukrainian forces will have the stomach for fighting their own uber patriotic brothers is another question.  RS may not be the entity that splits the government  in itself, but may form the catalyst for other powers to come into play.

Catalyst. If serious fighting erupts in west or even central Ukraine then I think that will be the end of ATO. The silence of scum like Tyagnibok is interesting.

And these last weeks DNR/LNR have almost fallen over in desire to seem meak and mild and as passive as possible. If plan is truely cunning, then nobody will no what it is or even suspect what it could be, the end result maybe, but not how. I don't know, but it's all so odd now....

If i were influential in novorossia and feeling a bit naughty, id be tempted to send some people down to mukachevo with a nice suitcase full of weapons and carry out a couple of ambushes on the army and RS. Stir it up a bit.

Rodinazombie wrote:

Khepesh wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:^^^^

I think we dont yet truly know how big a punch right sector can pull, RS and porky have danced around each other quite a few times now but none has really dared to call the others bluff so far.

Porkies hesitancy may more to do with his own lack of balls rather than the strength of RS, im sure RS could be crushed if needs be, but whether ukrainian forces will have the stomach for fighting their own uber patriotic brothers is another question.  RS may not be the entity that splits the government  in itself, but may form the catalyst for other powers to come into play.

Catalyst. If serious fighting erupts in west or even central Ukraine then I think that will be the end of ATO. The silence of scum like Tyagnibok is interesting.

And these last weeks DNR/LNR have almost fallen over in desire to seem meak and mild and as passive as possible. If plan is truely cunning, then nobody will no what it is or even suspect what it could be, the end result maybe, but not how. I don't know, but it's all so odd now....

If i were influential in novorossia and feeling a bit naughty, id be tempted to send some people down to mukachevo with a nice suitcase full of weapons and carry out a couple of ambushes on the army and RS. Stir it up a bit.

If the Russian GRU has any plans to assassinate Yarosh - now would be an excellent time to implement them.

Khepesh wrote:Head of Ukranian side of Joint  Centre for Monitoring and Coordination for the "ceasefire", Major General Andrei Taran, has been arrested for high treason. A pity, but there will be more senior officer "traitors" yet undiscovered. Perhaps they will decide to act before it is too late and we will after all see a coup, but I'm not betting on this. Since last week an unending series of "stuff happening" and odd news.... http://russian.rt.com/article/103075

Edit: Tho the report simply states that he was dismissed, it can be reasonably extrapolated that you do not let a senior general found to be a "traitor" keep his freedom. General Taran was also deputy chief of defence intelligence according to Lysenko. If so, and there is no reason to think Lysenko would lie about this, then he would have had access to the highest grade and fully up to date intelligence.

Latest on this involves word of hacked twitter accounts and such, so maybe all is not as it seems, as usual....

Another motive for them to keep the war going is to cause as much death and destruction in Donbass as possible. They know that they cannot have Donbass so why not make it as costly for Russia to rebuild it as possible and why not kill as many pro-Russian people as possible?

flamming_python wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:

Khepesh wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:^^^^

I think we dont yet truly know how big a punch right sector can pull, RS and porky have danced around each other quite a few times now but none has really dared to call the others bluff so far.

Porkies hesitancy may more to do with his own lack of balls rather than the strength of RS, im sure RS could be crushed if needs be, but whether ukrainian forces will have the stomach for fighting their own uber patriotic brothers is another question.  RS may not be the entity that splits the government  in itself, but may form the catalyst for other powers to come into play.

Catalyst. If serious fighting erupts in west or even central Ukraine then I think that will be the end of ATO. The silence of scum like Tyagnibok is interesting.

And these last weeks DNR/LNR have almost fallen over in desire to seem meak and mild and as passive as possible. If plan is truely cunning, then nobody will no what it is or even suspect what it could be, the end result maybe, but not how. I don't know, but it's all so odd now....

If i were influential in novorossia and feeling a bit naughty, id be tempted to send some people down to mukachevo with a nice suitcase full of weapons and carry out a couple of ambushes on the army and RS. Stir it up a bit.

If the Russian GRU has any plans to assassinate Yarosh - now would be an excellent time to implement them.

I would wait and see which way he is moving first, if he looking for compromise with poroshenko then take him out, if he is looking for a fight, let him be the useful idiot and damage porky as much as possible.

Yarosh has a bullet with his name written on it, he will get it sooner or later, the most important thing is not to pull the trigger too early whilst he can be useful. I prefer a useful soon to be dead scumbag rather than just a dead scumbag.

Rodinazombie wrote:If i were influential in novorossia and feeling a bit naughty, id be tempted to send some people down to mukachevo with a nice suitcase full of weapons and carry out a couple of ambushes on the army and RS. Stir it up a bit.

Mukachevo is on the other side of Ukraine.

Neutrality wrote:foreseeable

Yes, and with all the radicals, but perhaps more so after the war not while it continues. I am in general agreement with the rest of your post, tho want to add this. I would not dismiss pravy sektor and Svoboda as sort of clubs for crimminals as is often the case, because they do have underlying politics that in some elements strike a chord with population. They don't get the votes because they are otherwise simply clowns and electorate want a party in power that it knows will have at least some idea of how to run a country. Pravy sektor have been very good at making a little seem a lot, like yesterday with a lot of demonstrations all over the country, but in some cities, like Sumy, only 25 people appear. But they make it seem they are bigger and that is important, and now they present themselves as anti oligarch and pro ordinary people, the socialist part of their national socialism, they could present thenselves as "victims" of the big bad oligarch state. While the pravy sektor front units never moved yesterday, I think if Kiev tried a "night of the long knives", they would fight, and experienced tough fighters, even if scum, will make mincemeat out of many ordinary ukrops units. I think any serious fighting will be the end for Kiev, but allowing pravy sektor to dominate the news like this is almost as bad. Poroshenko not only stares into the abys, he is also between a rock and a hard place.

Rodinazombie wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:

Khepesh wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:^^^^

I think we dont yet truly know how big a punch right sector can pull, RS and porky have danced around each other quite a few times now but none has really dared to call the others bluff so far.

Porkies hesitancy may more to do with his own lack of balls rather than the strength of RS, im sure RS could be crushed if needs be, but whether ukrainian forces will have the stomach for fighting their own uber patriotic brothers is another question.  RS may not be the entity that splits the government  in itself, but may form the catalyst for other powers to come into play.

Catalyst. If serious fighting erupts in west or even central Ukraine then I think that will be the end of ATO. The silence of scum like Tyagnibok is interesting.

And these last weeks DNR/LNR have almost fallen over in desire to seem meak and mild and as passive as possible. If plan is truely cunning, then nobody will no what it is or even suspect what it could be, the end result maybe, but not how. I don't know, but it's all so odd now....

If i were influential in novorossia and feeling a bit naughty, id be tempted to send some people down to mukachevo with a nice suitcase full of weapons and carry out a couple of ambushes on the army and RS. Stir it up a bit.

If the Russian GRU has any plans to assassinate Yarosh - now would be an excellent time to implement them.

I would wait and see which way he is moving first, if he looking for compromise with poroshenko then take him out, if he is looking for a fight, let him be the useful idiot and damage porky as much as possible.

Yarosh has a bullet with his name written on it, he will get it sooner or later, the most important thing is not to pull the trigger too early whilst he can be useful. I prefer a useful soon to be dead scumbag rather than just a dead scumbag.

He's moving for a compromise, and always will; he's smart enough not to get into a direct fight with the SBU and Porko; he values his own life too much.

Which means that the objective should be to remove the compliant and subordinated old-guard like Yarosh, and try to promote the emergance of younger, more impatient leaders who are more likely to get into a direct conflict with Ukrainian power structures.
Think of it in terms of the IRA and Provisional IRA in Northern Ireland. Who do you think British Intelligence secretly supported?