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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:28 pm

    There are people who believe this crap. The funny thing is, its this same woman constantly screaming about this bs. But what is even funnier is that she openly claimed to have signed a legal binding document/contract of her employment that states she isnt supposed to openly talk about her work, but what is she doing now? Clearly a paid provocator, but one that could actually be sued.

    She barely gets any recognition so she probably has nothing so that is why very little airtime.
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:34 pm

    Even Yats admitting the financial game is up, Kiev is flat broke. Reducing spending on defence would help of course.

    KIEV, June 25. /TASS/. Ukraine cannot afford to service the external debt that has accumulated over the past three years, Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said during a meeting with representatives of the US Chamber of Commerce on Thursday. "Currently, we cannot service the debt that has accumulated, above all, over the past three years. Ukraine has received $40 billion over the past three years. The total amount required to service the external debt, in fact, is equal to our military spending which makes up 5% of the country’s GDP," Yatsenyuk said.
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    Post  Ghoster Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:47 pm

    sepheronx wrote:There are people who believe this crap. The funny thing is, its this same woman constantly screaming about this bs. But what is even funnier is that she openly claimed to have signed a legal binding document/contract of her employment that states she isnt supposed to openly talk about her work, but what is she doing now? Clearly a paid provocator, but one that could actually be sued.

    She barely gets any recognition so she probably has nothing so that is why very little airtime.

    I find it funny, that the opinion of being anti-West or pro-Russian in the article is described as something only a "paid troll" could write.

    Kharkiv News, which is probably the only alternative view news site in Ukraine, is described as a "group of trolls masquerading as journalists". It really mostly reposts articles from Ukrainian and Russian media.

    Paid trolls posting something like this probably exist on both sides, but that borderline insane lady really blows it out of proportion.
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    Post  whir Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:07 pm

    Ghoster wrote:I find it funny, that the opinion of being anti-West or pro-Russian in the article is described as something only a "paid troll" could write.
    You don't even to go as far as being anti or pro something just deviating from the party line is enough to be accused of being a paid troll this days.

    Ghoster wrote:Paid trolls posting something like this probably exist on both sides, but that borderline insane lady really blows it out of proportion.
    No one pays people to write lengthy walls of text with reasoned arguments it's simply not worth the effort since it's both exhausting and time consuming.
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    Post  Bolt Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:20 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:Does anyone by any chance know what the 241 mark means? Twitter guy says it's Russian rail transport marking.

    https://twitter.com/RobPulseNews/status/613776569572720640
    My job has some common points with railroad transportation, but to be honest, I don't know what could "24" mean in this case (it doesn't mean it means nothing, I could be ill-informed of it).
    Now, if it was Н2200, it would be a standard sign for a T-72 tank that is being transported on railroad platform. "H" meaning "oversized", and "2200" meaning the tank is oversized in the lower area and in the side area.

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    Post  Flagship Victory Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:05 pm

    The US to deliver another batch of 100 Humvees in July.

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/us-to-deliver-extra-100-humvees-to-ukraine-in-july-392028.html
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    Post  Flagship Victory Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:20 pm

    recent Putin interview with Charlie Ross

    http://defence.pk/threads/when-putin-speaks-in-his-own-words.382541/

    It's interesting that Putin says he wants nothing from Maidan and Putin refers to Maidan as his friends in Kiev. Shocked scratch

    To me, I do not think Russia is supplying any arms to NAF. Remember NAF can get just about anything off the black market. Heck, even Nusra has Kornets.

    I do believe that Russia is an ally of Maidan. The diplomatic ties speak for themselves. Perhaps Putin does think Maidan is his friends in Kiev. What a Face
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    Post  Khepesh Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:42 pm

    Bolt wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:Does anyone by any chance know what the 241 mark means? Twitter guy says it's Russian rail transport marking.

    https://twitter.com/RobPulseNews/status/613776569572720640
    My job has some common points with railroad transportation, but to be honest, I don't know what could "24" mean in this case (it doesn't mean it means nothing, I could be ill-informed of it).
    Now, if it was Н2200, it would be a standard sign for a T-72 tank that is being transported on railroad platform. "H" meaning "oversized", and "2200" meaning the tank is oversized in the lower area and in the side area.

    It's not 24, it's 2Ч. Not sure exactly what it means in this context but nothing to do with rail transport on those two captured from ukrops T-64BV. 2Ч usually it means second part. That tweet is a good example of how amateur ukrops western stooges are
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:45 pm

    Ghoster wrote:Inside Putin's secret 'troll factory': How mother turned whistleblower to reveal the secrets of shadowy propaganda unit where staff were told to call Obama a 'monkey' and Ukraine 'Nazis' online
    She described how armies of online foot soldiers pose as ordinary Russians to write hundreds of biased comments on social media.

    They comment on topics such as sanctions, the Ukraine conflict, the seizure of Crimea, the shooting down of flight MH17 and assassinations of Putin enemies - like Boris Nemtsov -

    Shit, we're busted guys. What a Face

    But seriously, is anyone in the West even stupid enough to believe this nonsense?

    Yes comrade, it is time to execute extraction protocol. We shall all assemble at the harbor where KGB midget-sub under command of Colonel Python will pick us up.

    But first open the box labeled "Russia-Stronkk!!!!11!!" located under your PC. Inside you will find silenced Makarov pistol, bottle of vodka, GLONASS transmitter, Russian flag, cyanide capsule, ushanka hat and a sandwich.

    You may now eat the sandwich.      

    lol1   yes sir  russia   Very Happy


    But seriously, this talk of "payed trolls" is just the 21'st century version of expressions like"American spy" or "Soviet sleeper agent" that were popular during Cold War and were used by idiots when they would run out of intelligent arguments to support their claims. Over here we had expression "enemy spy" or some BS like that, can't remember anymore really... I am sure today Norks say "Southern spy", Saudis say "Iranian infidel" etc, etc....

    It is not just politics, I seen people on gaming forums accuse others of being payed trolls for EA or Activision or others...
    Basically "Reducto ad Hitlerum", only in this case it is "Reducto ad Trollum".
    ---------------------
    And another thing. They say that we are payed trolls, so did any one of you guys get any money, because I have been working pro-bono for 8 months already.  cry
    Really, at this point I would settle for free burger and a coffee at the start of my shift.

    Hell, Kremlin could even be generous enough to get us some Starbucks.....  russia
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    Post  Flagship Victory Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:51 pm

    The mother of the captured Russian special force soldier who spoke to Reuters got arrested.

    http://pressafoto.ru/mat-gru#
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    Post  Regular Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:05 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:recent Putin interview with Charlie Ross

    http://defence.pk/threads/when-putin-speaks-in-his-own-words.382541/

    It's interesting that Putin says he wants nothing from Maidan and Putin refers to Maidan as his friends in Kiev. Shocked scratch

    To me, I do not think Russia is supplying any arms to NAF. Remember NAF can get just about anything off the black market. Heck, even Nusra has Kornets.

    I do believe that Russia is an ally of Maidan. The diplomatic ties speak for themselves. Perhaps Putin does think Maidan is his friends in Kiev. What a Face


    Not sure if You are serious?
    Russia supplies everything to separatists. Be it Russian government or private donations. From food, medicine to bullets. There is no such black market in the region to arm such quantity of men. How would You smuggle lets say Akatsya to Eastern Ukraine without anyone noticing? Captured equipment was the case in the begging of ATO. Now Ukrainian equipment usually is turned into smoldering scrap metal. How do You see it it's another issue, I personally think Russia started supply separatists quite late.
    BTW Nusra captured Kornets from Hezies AFAIK. Russia doesn't sell their top weapons on black market, it's not 90s anymore.


    Last edited by Regular on Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:06 pm

    They will try to stop the radio next

    Over the past several weeks, Ukrainian media have been reporting on a surge in Ukrainians' use of unlicensed satellite dishes, often installed with the express purpose of watching Russian television channels banned by the country's Ministry of Information Policy over the past year.

    Commenting on the failure of the Ministry to "protect Ukrainians from Russian propaganda," Radical Party MP Andriy Lozovoy proposed the creation of a special police unit under the Ministry of Internal Affairs charged with destroying the pirate dishes. "Let the Ministry of Information Policy develop a program to block the signal. But if there is no political will for tough decisions, I will personally propose to [Minister of Internal Affairs Arsen] Avakov to see to it that police officers drive around and cut down these dishes," Lozovoy noted. The MP added that it is critical that the satellite dishes be blocked "at any cost," since they "brainwash people, especially older people, who believe what the television says."

    Commenting on the urgency of the matter, Lozovoy declared that "the danger is particularly acute in the regions where there is separatist sentiment, including Odessa and the Kharkiv regions." The deputy claimed to have information that "Kremlin agents" would use the transmission of information via satellite dishes in their 'separatist interests.'


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150625/1023852222.html#ixzz3e6eWqmRj
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:22 pm

    Ghoster wrote:OSCE is finally being somewhat useful. Looks like Kiev forces are preparing for something.

    Despite claims that withdrawal of heavy weapons was complete, the SMM observed the following weapons’ movements and presence in areas non-compliant with the withdrawal lines. In government-controlled areas in the north of the Donetsk region, the SMM observed four main battle tanks (MBT) (one T-64 and three T-72s), one being repaired and three moving north. In government-controlled areas to the north-north-west of Donetsk city, the SMM noted a significant Ukrainian Armed Forces presence, and lines of defensive trenches being developed and strengthened. In government-controlled Novoselivka Druha (36km north-north-east of Mariupol), the SMM observed three military flatbed trucks carrying 120mm mortars, moving north. In areas in and around “DPR”-controlled Novoazovsk (39km east of Mariupol), an SMM UAV spotted four MBTs, 50 armoured personnel carriers, five artillery pieces and 69 military trucks.
    http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/166856

    OSCE being vague as always, doesn't actually name whose equipment it is in the last part.
    Its probable I would have thought that as it was described as being in a DPR controlled area that it was DPR gear. As you say they are never specific on ownership, they only say who controlled the area they saw it in.

    This is a bit of good news from the same report

    Immediately north of government-controlled Volnovakha (55km north of Mariupol), the SMM observed a stationary Swiss humanitarian aid convoy consisting of 10 heavy trucks. After 15 minutes, it moved north through the Ukrainian Armed Forces checkpoint in government-controlled Buhas (60km north of Mariupol), and proceeded into “DPR”-controlled territory.

    Whilst this was a comment on the water pumping station damage. If done by a Grad, are there any LPR positions within range as 60Km seems quite a way away?

    At a water supply facility in government-controlled Zolote (60km north-west of Luhansk), the SMM noted that one of the water-pump stations and a transformer were damaged, caused – according to plant employees – by MLRS Grad rockets on 23 June. The SMM noted a large crater impact outside the damaged pump station. The employees said the presence of mines was preventing the replacement of the transformer. In “Lugansk People’s Republic” (“LPR”)-controlled Vesniane (45km west of Luhansk), and in the government-controlled villages of Hrechyshkyne, Kapitanove, Muratove and Bobrove (45, 50, 50 and 56km north-west of Luhansk, respectively), various interlocutors told the SMM that there was no mains water.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:25 pm

    Regular wrote:Not sure if You are serious?
    Russia supplies everything to separatists. Be it Russian government or private donations. From food, medicine to bullets. There is no such black market in the region to arm such quantity of men. How would You smuggle lets say Akatsya to Eastern Ukraine without anyone noticing? Captured equipment was the case in the begging of ATO. Now Ukrainian equipment usually is turned into smoldering scrap metal. How do You see it it's another issue, I personally think Russia started supply separatists quite late.
    BTW Nusra captured Kornets from Hezies AFAIK. Russia doesn't sell their top weapons on black market, it's not 90s anymore.

    The law in the west is innocence unless proven guilty. The fact that there is no proof of Russia supplying arms and equipment to NAF. There is likely private donations by Russian soldiers stationed near the border with Donbas, yes, but no proof from the Russian government.

    Anyone know that the story is behind that Russian serviceman who fought in Donbas? Was he ordered by the Russian government or did he do it illegally? Seems he was scared s when Simon found him.

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    Post  Regular Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:40 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    Regular wrote:Not sure if You are serious?
    Russia supplies everything to separatists. Be it Russian government or private donations. From food, medicine to bullets. There is no such black market in the region to arm such quantity of men. How would You smuggle lets say Akatsya to Eastern Ukraine without anyone noticing? Captured equipment was the case in the begging of ATO. Now Ukrainian equipment usually is turned into smoldering scrap metal. How do You see it it's another issue, I personally think Russia started supply separatists quite late.
    BTW Nusra captured Kornets from Hezies AFAIK. Russia doesn't sell their top weapons on black market, it's not 90s anymore.

    The law in the west is innocence unless proven guilty. The fact that there is no proof of Russia supplying arms and equipment to NAF.

    Occam's razor of course. But it's not so simple as we seen exclusive weapons and equipment in hands of separatists. Few examples are ASVK newest modifications not so long ago only seen in EXPOS and now used by serbians and few other dudes, and we all remember RPOs so popular among SPARTA men. Heck no one is really hiding it look at the video



    Last edited by Regular on Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:56 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  Flagship Victory Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:45 pm

    Regular wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:
    Regular wrote:Not sure if You are serious?
    Russia supplies everything to separatists. Be it Russian government or private donations. From food, medicine to bullets. There is no such black market in the region to arm such quantity of men. How would You smuggle lets say Akatsya to Eastern Ukraine without anyone noticing? Captured equipment was the case in the begging of ATO. Now Ukrainian equipment usually is turned into smoldering scrap metal. How do You see it it's another issue, I personally think Russia started supply separatists quite late.
    BTW Nusra captured Kornets from Hezies AFAIK. Russia doesn't sell their top weapons on black market, it's not 90s anymore.

    The law in the west is innocence unless proven guilty. The fact that there is no proof of Russia supplying arms and equipment to NAF.

    Occam's razor of course. But it's not so simple as we seen exclusive weapons and equipment in hands of separatists. ASVK newest modification, RPOs so popular among SPARTA men. Heck no one is really hiding it look at the video

    True. Could be from private donations or from soldiers stationed near the border. Fact is, we do not know where these equipment came from. Considering Putin refers to Maidan as his friends in Kiev during interview, I doubt Putin knows about such equipment in NAF.
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    Post  Regular Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:08 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:

    True. Could be from private donations or from soldiers stationed near the border. Fact is, we do not know where these equipment came from. Considering Putin refers to Maidan as his friends in Kiev during interview, I doubt Putin knows about such equipment in NAF.
    Private donations could be possible if company actually sends it to separatists, no need to go through Russian army. But good luck for soldiers who would give their property of Army to knows who. Inventorisation of weapons happens pretty much daily and such thing as advanced counter battery radar would be missed. No one would give a shit if You supplied weapons to separatists or Pope himself, heads would roll.
    Putin refers to everyone as a friend or college, listen his speeches more. He is rather polite when it comes to addressing his rivals.

    And about that VICE NEWS video, well played Simon, even if I don't like his smug face, nice investigation but.. it was all obvious.
    My take is that Russia decided to move in because Ukrainian army was escalating situation by staying in Debaltseve when Russia wanted separatists and Ukraine atleast to have some no man's zone. Ukrainians dug in pretty good, they had tons of supplies and strategically vital position- between two regions. Not to mention constant shelling was coming from there and civvies are getting most of it. Debaltseve became a fortress. And time was ticking, MINSK 2 was finalized while this shit had to be done quick. It was no brainer that someone had to do dirty job, not a rag tag guys, but a proper army in a proper battle. Don't get me wrong separatists have very nice units that are very professional and would give Ukrainian army run for their money, but NAF is army only in name, scale of operation wasn't the the same. Casualty ratio of defenders and attackers gives a hint or two who Ukrs were dealing with too.

    Now Russia is playing smart and using plausible deniability. I must admit, among all the suffering, Ukrainian gambit is a beautiful thing. Russia is playing it perfectly. On other hand US is a shadow of former self when it comes to global politics. US started to bully it's western allies to hurt Russia and it doesn't really help in a long run. It's getting closer to the day when Europe will be able to ignore US.


    Last edited by Regular on Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  gregoire Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:08 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    Regular wrote:Not sure if You are serious?
    Russia supplies everything to separatists. Be it Russian government or private donations. From food, medicine to bullets. There is no such black market in the region to arm such quantity of men. How would You smuggle lets say Akatsya to Eastern Ukraine without anyone noticing? Captured equipment was the case in the begging of ATO. Now Ukrainian equipment usually is turned into smoldering scrap metal. How do You see it it's another issue, I personally think Russia started supply separatists quite late.
    BTW Nusra captured Kornets from Hezies AFAIK. Russia doesn't sell their top weapons on black market, it's not 90s anymore.

    The law in the west is innocence unless proven guilty. The fact that there is no proof of Russia supplying arms and equipment to NAF. There is likely private donations by Russian soldiers stationed near the border with Donbas, yes, but no proof from the Russian government.

    Anyone know that the story is behind that Russian serviceman who fought in Donbas? Was he ordered by the Russian government or did he do it illegally? Seems he was scared s when Simon found him.



    Has been commented on extensively in this topic.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:12 pm

    You know, if the US REALLY wants Russia to get involved, it's not hard to do. Give Maidan 500 Paladins and a million rounds of 155 mm shells and shell Donetsk. I doubt Russia would be able to sit tight in such an event. Shocked

    So far, the US hasn't pulled out the big gun. So far, Russia did not need to get involved. But you never know when the US will pull out the big gun. My guess is after 2016 election.

    Head of NATO Breedlove says Putin not done with Ukraine.

    http://news.yahoo.com/nato-warns-risk-return-heavy-fighting-ukraine-122857271.html


    Last edited by Flagship Victory on Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:21 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:The mother of the captured Russian special force soldier who spoke to Reuters got arrested.

    http://pressafoto.ru/mat-gru#

    The mother got arrested?

    It said nothing about that in the link.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:22 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:The mother of the captured Russian special force soldier who spoke to Reuters got arrested.

    http://pressafoto.ru/mat-gru#

    The mother got arrested?

    It said nothing about that in the link.

    I stand corrected. On themess.net someone said so. I'm Canadian and I don't read Russian.
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    Post  The Mule Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:37 pm

    Hello everybody!

    The Russians are saying they are supplying the rebels in every way but officially. Think of Putin's 'anyone can get a hold of weapons nowadays' reply. Why is this even disputed?

    More in the news, Russia's now officially an 'aggressor' according to PACE. Sigh...

    http://assembly.coe.int/nw/xml/XRef/X2H-Xref-ViewPDF.asp?FileID=21970&lang=en
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    Post  gregoire Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:37 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:You know, if the US REALLY wants Russia to get involved, it's not hard to do. Give Maidan 500 Paladins and a million rounds of 155 mm shells and shell Donetsk. I doubt Russia would be able to sit tight in such an event. Shocked

    So far, the US hasn't pulled out the big gun. So far, Russia did not need to get involved. But you never know when the US will pull out the big gun. My guess is after 2016 election.

    Head of NATO Breedlove says Putin not done with Ukraine.

    http://news.yahoo.com/nato-warns-risk-return-heavy-fighting-ukraine-122857271.html

    They want Russia to attack "unprovoked". Any country would defend itself if attacked and so would Russia.
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    Post  Regular Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:39 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:You know, if the US REALLY wants Russia to get involved, it's not hard to do. Give Maidan 500 Paladins and a million rounds of 155 mm shells and shell Donetsk. I doubt Russia would be able to sit tight in such an event. Shocked
    Suspect
    May I ask, how old are You?
    You can't simply pull those numbers out of Your arse.
    Ukraine has enough of artillery to turn Donetsk into Grozny. What it does is something else. It's terrorizing by artillery. Making people tired of war.
    Ekh, can You give reasonable explanation who would man those Paladins?
    How much establishing logistical chain for such big number of artillery systems would cost to US and Ukraine?
    Just a hint,
    Tornado MLRS are very mobile systems You know. And they are relative cheap. Perfect for artillery duels, but in this case it would be a hunt not a duel. Hence Ukrainian artillery positions close to Russian border where pretty spicy..
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #16 - Page 21 B129c010
    Flagship Victory
    Flagship Victory

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #16 - Page 21 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Flagship Victory Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:42 pm

    The Mule wrote:More in the news, Russia's now officially an 'aggressor' according to PACE. Sigh...

    http://assembly.coe.int/nw/xml/XRef/X2H-Xref-ViewPDF.asp?FileID=21970&lang=en

    Well, ahem, you don't take a chunk of another country and be called a saint. Rolling Eyes Putin should have been more careful. Occupy but do not absorb. The Crimea issue is a big problem. Sanctions will not end unless Putin gives Crimea back to Ukraine. But if Putin does so, Putin would become the worst president in Russian history. Let's just say Putin is in between a rock and a hard place, because he didn't think it through and went ahead with emotions.  dunno

    The US perfectly knows Putin's personality. They know he is a very emotional person. They anticipated Putin would absorb Crimea on emotions. Putin fell right into their trap. Because of this, Putin is branded as the evil Putler in the west and Russia is branded as the Third Reich in the west.  Shocked  It was planned all along. Years in the making.

    Israel absorbed Golan in 1982 and even today Syria and Israel are enemies because of that.

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #16 - Page 21 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

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