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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

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    Rodinazombie

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    Post  Rodinazombie Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:10 am

    Regardin putin talking about the kiev regime as 'friends'.

    Russian is a unique language in that you can describe someone as 'уважаемый' (dear, respected) and despite it sounding like a term of endearment, it can be quite the opposite. If i call some scumbag a 'уважаемый друг' it would be quite clear what my feelings are towards him, yet its much classier than abusing him in the language he expects. Its the same as how putin calls the west 'partners' or 'colleagues'.



    He knows damn well they are the enemy, but he is not dropping down to the level of the hysterical idiots in the west. Im pretty sure that must annoy those same people who demonize him, when he responds with polite calmness to their hysteria.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:14 am

    Rodinazombie wrote:Regardin putin talking about the kiev regime as 'friends'.

    Russian is a unique language in that you can describe someone as 'уважаемый' (dear, respected) and despite it sounding like a term of endearment, it can be quite the opposite.  If i call some scumbag a 'уважаемый друг' it would be quite clear what my feelings are towards him, yet its much classier than abusing him in the language he expects. Its the same as how putin calls the west 'partners' or 'colleagues'.



    He knows damn well they are the enemy, but he is not dropping down to the level of the hysterical idiots in the west. Im pretty sure that must annoy those same people who demonize him, when he responds with polite calmness to their hysteria.

    I see. I'm westerner, do not understand Russian ways. Here in the west people call enemies even opponents as bastards. Westerners need to learn manners. censored
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    Post  Rodinazombie Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:22 am

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    Rodinazombie wrote:Regardin putin talking about the kiev regime as 'friends'.

    Russian is a unique language in that you can describe someone as 'уважаемый' (dear, respected) and despite it sounding like a term of endearment, it can be quite the opposite.  If i call some scumbag a 'уважаемый друг' it would be quite clear what my feelings are towards him, yet its much classier than abusing him in the language he expects. Its the same as how putin calls the west 'partners' or 'colleagues'.



    He knows damn well they are the enemy, but he is not dropping down to the level of the hysterical idiots in the west. Im pretty sure that must annoy those same people who demonize him, when he responds with polite calmness to their hysteria.

    I see. I'm westerner, do not understand Russian ways. Here in the west people call enemies even opponents as bastards. You see westerners have bad manners. censored

    Im sure you have watched the godfather, read between the lines. You can send a message without saying it in words. Thats one mistake western politicians make, they let their tongues get the better of them and then have to make embarrassing climbdowns later, ie obama and his red line stance with syria.


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    Post  Flagship Victory Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:27 am

    The Mule wrote:More in the news, Russia's now officially an 'aggressor' according to PACE. Sigh...

    http://assembly.coe.int/nw/xml/XRef/X2H-Xref-ViewPDF.asp?FileID=21970&lang=en

    Well, ahem, you don't take a chunk of another country and be called a saint. Rolling Eyes Putin should have been more careful. Occupy but do not absorb. The Crimea issue is a big problem. Sanctions will not end unless Putin gives Crimea back to Ukraine. But if Putin does so, Putin would become the worst president in Russian history. Let's just say Putin is in between a rock and a hard place, because he didn't think it through and went ahead with emotions.  dunno

    The US perfectly knows Putin's personality. They know he is a very emotional person. They anticipated Putin would absorb Crimea on emotions. Putin fell right into their trap. Because of this, Putin is branded as the evil Putler in the west and Russia is branded as the Third Reich in the west.  Shocked  It was planned all along. Years in the making.

    Israel absorbed Golan in 1982 and even today Syria and Israel are enemies because of that.

    I think Crimea will be given back to Ukraine in a few years if nothing big develops between Russia and Ukraine. Yeah, Putin fell into the trap and absorbed Crimea. Now wish he hadn't because of sanctions. Putin will not give back Crimea, else his legacy would be in tattered. It would be done by the next Russian president. Again, all of this, including Putin absorbing Crimea, has been years in the making by the US. The end goal is to put a US military base in Donbas. So my guess is, after Russia gives Crimea back to Ukraine, the US would put a military base in Donbas. In the meantime, Poroshenko has to play good cop and not cause a Russia Ukraine war. You see even shelling Donetsk with heavy artillery does not draw a word from Putin anymore these days. Putin longs to normalize relations and drop sanctions more than he cares about Donetsk. This is why, in my opinion, the US's plan is so far working perfectly.

    If I'm not mistaken, the US's plan is this:

    1. start Maidan

    2. drive out Yanu

    3. Putin gets mad, absorbs Crimea

    4. brand Russians evil in western media and apply sanctions

    5. Putin gets cold feet

    6. next Russian president gives Crimea back to Ukraine

    7. sanctions stay in place and builds US military base in Donbas

    8. US wins Russia loses big time

    Since when has the US kept promise? The US promised not to expand NATO after the USSR is split. The US lied and expanded NATO to Russia's border.


    Last edited by Flagship Victory on Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Guest Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:33 am

    The Mule wrote:Hello everybody!

    The Russians are saying they are supplying the rebels in every way but officially. Think of Putin's 'anyone can get a hold of weapons nowadays' reply. Why is this even disputed?

    More in the news, Russia's now officially an 'aggressor' according to PACE. Sigh...

    http://assembly.coe.int/nw/xml/XRef/X2H-Xref-ViewPDF.asp?FileID=21970&lang=en
    Hey Mule! Nice to see you made it over here.

    Don't mind Flagship. He is in the same boat as Monarchist (who is coincidentally on this site) and Anabolism back on MP.net. All of them do not recognize the current Russian government as legitimate and believe it is evil.

    By the way, there is an introductory section on this forum that you may want to go introduce yourself on.
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    Post  Guest Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:34 am

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    The Mule wrote:More in the news, Russia's now officially an 'aggressor' according to PACE. Sigh...

    http://assembly.coe.int/nw/xml/XRef/X2H-Xref-ViewPDF.asp?FileID=21970&lang=en

    Well, ahem, you don't take a chunk of another country and be called a saint. Rolling Eyes Putin should have been more careful. Occupy but do not absorb. The Crimea issue is a big problem. Sanctions will not end unless Putin gives Crimea back to Ukraine. But if Putin does so, Putin would become the worst president in Russian history. Let's just say Putin is in between a rock and a hard place, because he didn't think it through and went ahead with emotions.  dunno

    The US perfectly knows Putin's personality. They know he is a very emotional person. They anticipated Putin would absorb Crimea on emotions. Putin fell right into their trap. Because of this, Putin is branded as the evil Putler in the west and Russia is branded as the Third Reich in the west.  Shocked  It was planned all along. Years in the making.

    Israel absorbed Golan in 1982 and even today Syria and Israel are enemies because of that.

    I think Crimea will be given back to Ukraine in a few years if nothing big develops between Russia and Ukraine. Yeah, Putin fell into the trap and absorbed Crimea. Now wish he hadn't because of sanctions. Putin will not give back Crimea, else his legacy would be in tattered. It would be done by the next Russian president. Again, all of this, including Putin absorbing Crimea, has been years in the making by the US. The end goal is to put a US military base in Donbas. So my guess is, after Russia gives Crimea back to Ukraine, the US would put a military base in Donbas. In the meantime, Poroshenko has to play good cop and not cause a Russia Ukraine war. You see even shelling Donetsk with heavy artillery does not draw a word from Putin anymore these days. Putin longs to normalize relations and drop sanctions more than he cares about Donetsk. This is why, in my opinion, the US's plan is so far working perfectly.

    If I'm not mistaken, the US's plan is this:

    1. start Maidan

    2. drive out Yanu

    3. Putin gets mad, absorbs Crimea

    4. brand Russians evil in western media and apply sanctions

    5. Putin gets cold feet

    6. next Russian president gives Crimea back to Ukraine

    7. says the US lied and sanctions stay in place and builds US military base in Donbas

    8. US wins Russia loses big time

    Since when has the US kept promise? The US promised not to expand NATO after the USSR is split. The US lied and expanded NATO to Russia's border.

    C'mon Flagship. You can do better than that.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:36 am

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:C'mon Flagship. You can do better than that.

    That is the US's plan. We are on step 6.

    You remember, a few months ago, after Minsk 2 Maidan shelled Donbas and Putin got out of bed at 3 in the morning and blasted Maidan tongue What does Putin say these days when Maidan does the same thing every single day? Not a single word. Putin got scared by sanctions.

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/russia-and-former-soviet-union/reuters-russias-medvedev-says-can-change-list-of-banned-western-imports-391968.html

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-25/eu-sanctions-are-influencing-russia-over-ukraine-envoy-says


    Last edited by Flagship Victory on Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  The Mule Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:40 am

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    The Mule wrote:Hello everybody!

    The Russians are saying they are supplying the rebels in every way but officially. Think of Putin's 'anyone can get a hold of weapons nowadays' reply. Why is this even disputed?

    More in the news, Russia's now officially an 'aggressor' according to PACE. Sigh...

    http://assembly.coe.int/nw/xml/XRef/X2H-Xref-ViewPDF.asp?FileID=21970&lang=en
    Hey Mule! Nice to see you made it over here.

    Don't mind Flagship. He is in the same boat as Monarchist (who is coincidentally on this site) and Anabolism back on MP.net. All of them do not recognize the current Russian government as legitimate and believe it is evil.

    By the way, there is an introductory section on this forum that you may want to go introduce yourself on.
    Hi, thanks! Hah, I almost missed Monarchist Smile
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:07 am

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    Rodinazombie wrote:Regardin putin talking about the kiev regime as 'friends'.

    Russian is a unique language in that you can describe someone as 'уважаемый' (dear, respected) and despite it sounding like a term of endearment, it can be quite the opposite.  If i call some scumbag a 'уважаемый друг' it would be quite clear what my feelings are towards him, yet its much classier than abusing him in the language he expects. Its the same as how putin calls the west 'partners' or 'colleagues'.



    He knows damn well they are the enemy, but he is not dropping down to the level of the hysterical idiots in the west. Im pretty sure that must annoy those same people who demonize him, when he responds with polite calmness to their hysteria.

    I see. I'm westerner, do not understand Russian ways. Here in the west people call enemies even opponents as bastards. Westerners need to learn manners. censored

    You're a Serbian-Canadian-Finnish troll What a Face
    Erk
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    Post  Erk Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:33 am

    Rodinazombie wrote:Regardin putin talking about the kiev regime as 'friends'.

    Russian is a unique language in that you can describe someone as 'уважаемый' (dear, respected) and despite it sounding like a term of endearment, it can be quite the opposite.  If i call some scumbag a 'уважаемый друг' it would be quite clear what my feelings are towards him, yet its much classier than abusing him in the language he expects. Its the same as how putin calls the west 'partners' or 'colleagues'.



    He knows damn well they are the enemy, but he is not dropping down to the level of the hysterical idiots in the west. Im pretty sure that must annoy those same people who demonize him, when he responds with polite calmness to their hysteria.

    I noticed that in Putin's interviews and speeches, he goes out of his way to sound respectful to people that are often doing really bad things. Most political leaders just like to throw insults at whoever.
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    Post  kvs Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:34 am

    Ghoster wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:There are people who believe this crap. The funny thing is, its this same woman constantly screaming about this bs. But what is even funnier is that she openly claimed to have signed a legal binding document/contract of her employment that states she isnt supposed to openly talk about her work, but what is she doing now? Clearly a paid provocator, but one that could actually be sued.

    She barely gets any recognition so she probably has nothing so that is why very little airtime.

    I find it funny, that the opinion of being anti-West or pro-Russian in the article is described as something only a "paid troll" could write.

    Kharkiv News, which is probably the only alternative view news site in Ukraine, is described as a "group of trolls masquerading as journalists". It really mostly reposts articles from Ukrainian and Russian media.

    Paid trolls posting something like this probably exist on both sides, but that borderline insane lady really blows it out of proportion.

    Tagging journalists as some troll army is actually new dirty game the US is playing:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jun/21/military-manual-declares-war-on-spies-propagandist/?page=all#pagebreak

    The manual pushes aside the George W. Bush-era label of “unlawful enemy combatant” for al Qaeda and the like. The new term of choice: “unprivileged belligerent.”

    An eye-catching section deals with a definition of journalists and how they are expected to stay out of the fight.

    The manual defines them this way: “In general, journalists are civilians. However, journalists may be members of the armed forces, persons authorized to accompany the armed forces, or unprivileged belligerents.”

    So Washington now targets journalists recording its crimes and the crimes of its vassals as "enemy combatants".

    Sick.
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    Post  Mike E Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:40 am

    The US's only plan was to destabilize... The taking of Crimea was an independent event IMHO.
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:46 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Ghoster wrote:Inside Putin's secret 'troll factory': How mother turned whistleblower to reveal the secrets of shadowy propaganda unit where staff were told to call Obama a 'monkey' and Ukraine 'Nazis' online
    She described how armies of online foot soldiers pose as ordinary Russians to write hundreds of biased comments on social media.

    They comment on topics such as sanctions, the Ukraine conflict, the seizure of Crimea, the shooting down of flight MH17 and assassinations of Putin enemies - like Boris Nemtsov -

    Shit, we're busted guys. What a Face

    But seriously, is anyone in the West even stupid enough to believe this nonsense?

    Yes comrade, it is time to execute extraction protocol. We shall all assemble at the harbor where KGB midget-sub under command of Colonel Python will pick us up.

    But first open the box labeled "Russia-Stronkk!!!!11!!" located under your PC. Inside you will find silenced Makarov pistol, bottle of vodka, GLONASS transmitter, Russian flag, cyanide capsule, ushanka hat and a sandwich.

    You may now eat the sandwich.      

    lol1   yes sir  russia   Very Happy


    But seriously, this talk of "payed trolls" is just the 21'st century version of expressions like"American spy" or "Soviet sleeper agent" that were popular during Cold War and were used by idiots when they would run out of intelligent arguments to support their claims. Over here we had expression "enemy spy" or some BS like that, can't remember anymore really... I am sure today Norks say "Southern spy", Saudis say "Iranian infidel" etc, etc....

    It is not just politics, I seen people on gaming forums accuse others of being payed trolls for EA or Activision or others...
    Basically "Reducto ad Hitlerum", only in this case it is "Reducto ad Trollum".
    ---------------------
    And another thing. They say that we are payed trolls, so did any one of you guys get any money, because I have been working pro-bono for 8 months already.  cry
    Really, at this point I would settle for free burger and a coffee at the start of my shift.

    Hell, Kremlin could even be generous enough to get us some Starbucks.....  russia


    Very Happy Very Happy
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:50 am

    kvs wrote:
    Ghoster wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:There are people who believe this crap. The funny thing is, its this same woman constantly screaming about this bs. But what is even funnier is that she openly claimed to have signed a legal binding document/contract of her employment that states she isnt supposed to openly talk about her work, but what is she doing now? Clearly a paid provocator, but one that could actually be sued.

    She barely gets any recognition so she probably has nothing so that is why very little airtime.

    I find it funny, that the opinion of being anti-West or pro-Russian in the article is described as something only a "paid troll" could write.

    Kharkiv News, which is probably the only alternative view news site in Ukraine, is described as a "group of trolls masquerading as journalists". It really mostly reposts articles from Ukrainian and Russian media.

    Paid trolls posting something like this probably exist on both sides, but that borderline insane lady really blows it out of proportion.

    Tagging journalists as some troll army is actually new dirty game the US is playing:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jun/21/military-manual-declares-war-on-spies-propagandist/?page=all#pagebreak

    The manual pushes aside the George W. Bush-era label of “unlawful enemy combatant” for al Qaeda and the like. The new term of choice: “unprivileged belligerent.”

    An eye-catching section deals with a definition of journalists and how they are expected to stay out of the fight.

    The manual defines them this way: “In general, journalists are civilians. However, journalists may be members of the armed forces, persons authorized to accompany the armed forces, or unprivileged belligerents.”

    So Washington now targets journalists recording its crimes and the crimes of its vassals as "enemy combatants".

    Sick.

    That is sick. We're living in some seriously scary times in the USA..
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:57 am

    Anyone know anything about this?

    Truth about situation in Ukraine in Kharkov, Ukraine
    26 mins ·

    25th June 2015, city Kharkov, occupied Kharkov republic

    New level of terror by Kiev junta was reached. Kiev junta fascists during this evening shooting toward passenger buses on 3 different streets, are casualites.

    The first incident occurred at five o'clock in the evening on the street of Chkalov. was shooting from Jeep toward city minibus №241. According to preliminary information, were wounded man and a woman by glass shards. Now they have assisted.
    And after 20 minutes on str. Geroi Truda [Heroes of Labor] was shooting toward minibus №272. In the second case, no one was hurt. Later, in Kharkov was fired a third passenger bus, this time in the str Gvardeyci Shironintsi.

    Source, news agency of city Kharkov

    http://www.057.ua/news/869971

    By admin Konstantin
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    Post  Mike E Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:01 am

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:That is sick. We're living in some seriously scary times in the USA..
    It's OK... Free press, remember?  tongue
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    Post  Flagship Victory Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:03 am

    Mike E wrote:The US's only plan was to destabilize... The taking of Crimea was an independent event IMHO.

    Crimea was definitely part of the plan. The US planned for Russia to absorb Crimea. Or else the US would not have the motive to demonize Russia and put sanctions on Russia. What the US did not anticipate was the EU did not put sanctions on Russia. So the US had to do the ad hoc MH17 shootdown to have the EU put sanctions on.


    Last edited by Flagship Victory on Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Mike E Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:05 am

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    Mike E wrote:The US's only plan was to destabilize... The taking of Crimea was an independent event IMHO.

    Crimea was definitely part of he plan. The US planned for Russia to absorb Crimea. Or else the US would not have the motive to demonize Russia and put sanctions on Russia. What the US did not anticipate was the EU did not put sanctions on Russia. So the US had to do the ad hoc MH17 shootdown to have the EU put sanctions on.
    They were going to pin everything on Russia anyway, lies or not.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:07 am

    Mike E wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:
    Mike E wrote:The US's only plan was to destabilize... The taking of Crimea was an independent event IMHO.

    Crimea was definitely part of he plan. The US planned for Russia to absorb Crimea. Or else the US would not have the motive to demonize Russia and put sanctions on Russia. What the US did not anticipate was the EU did not put sanctions on Russia. So the US had to do the ad hoc MH17 shootdown to have the EU put sanctions on.
    They were going to pin everything on Russia anyway, lies or not.

    Yes but the important part was have the EU put sanctions on Russia. Because the EU has huge trade with Russia and the US only has minimal trade with Russia. The EU did not put sanctions on Russia even after Russia absorbed Crimea. That's why the US had to shoot down MH17 and blamed it on Russia so the EU would put sanctions on Russia.
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    Post  Big_Gazza Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:07 am

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    The US perfectly knows Putin's personality. They know he is a very emotional person. They anticipated Putin would absorb Crimea on emotions. Putin fell right into their trap. Because of this, Putin is branded as the evil Putler in the west and Russia is branded as the Third Reich in the west.  Shocked  It was planned all along. Years in the making.

    What utter shit. Its crystal clear that Russian support for Crimean secession caught the US unawares. They fully expected that Russia would not dare to get involved and that Ukraine would remain unified after the putsch so that Russian military agreements over Crimea could be abrogated, and that ultimately, US/NATO forces could move in to occupy the peninsula. US rage over the Russian temerity to act in defense of her vital interests stands in clear testimony to this fact.

    As for your absurd assertions that Putin is "emotional"... well f*ck me, i don't even know where to start. If there is a world leader who knows how to keep a calm measured composed demeanour and to carefully measure their response to provocations, it has to be Putin.

    You're simply off the planet. What are the Harperites putting into the water over there in Canuckistan????????
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    Post  Neutrality Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:25 am

    Putin and Obama talked for the first time since February.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:32 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:
    The US perfectly knows Putin's personality. They know he is a very emotional person. They anticipated Putin would absorb Crimea on emotions. Putin fell right into their trap. Because of this, Putin is branded as the evil Putler in the west and Russia is branded as the Third Reich in the west.  Shocked  It was planned all along. Years in the making.

    What utter shit.  Its crystal clear that Russian support for Crimean secession caught the US unawares.  They fully expected that Russia would not dare to get involved and that Ukraine would remain unified after the putsch so that Russian military agreements over Crimea could be abrogated, and that ultimately, US/NATO forces could move in to occupy the peninsula.  US rage over the Russian temerity to act in defense of her vital interests stands in clear testimony to this fact.

    As for your absurd assertions that Putin is "emotional"... well f*ck me, i don't even know where to start.  If there is a world leader who knows how to keep a calm measured composed demeanour and to carefully measure their response to provocations, it has to be Putin.

    You're simply off the planet.  What are the Harperites  putting into the water over there in Canuckistan????????

    I bet to differ. Yes Crimea is nice to have. But it's not necessary. The US wants land border with Russia. And that means eastern Ukraine. Crimea is good for the US either way. If Russia occupies or absorbs it, it serves to demonize Russia. If not, even better. The US navy can dock at Odessa. It does not have to dock in Crimea.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #16 - Page 22 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Mike E Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:35 am

    Flagship Victory wrote:I bet to differ. Yes Crimea is nice to have. But it's not necessary. The US wants land border with Russia. And that means eastern Ukraine. Crimea is good for the US either way. If Russia occupies or absorbs it, it serves to demonize Russia. If not, even better. The US navy can dock at Odessa. It does not have to dock in Crimea.
    In that case, having Crimea just became that much more valuable... A strong counter to any moves near or around Odessa while keeping the Russian fleet there more flexible. 

    US docking at Crimea would be even worse... I don't know what you're getting at?
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #16 - Page 22 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  franco Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:37 am

    Azov asks Canada for help getting good press;
    https://ca.news.yahoo.com/ultra-nationalist-ukrainian-fighters-want-canada-burnish-image-190204227.html
    Flagship Victory
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #16 - Page 22 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Flagship Victory Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:39 am

    franco wrote:Azov asks Canada for help getting good press;
    https://ca.news.yahoo.com/ultra-nationalist-ukrainian-fighters-want-canada-burnish-image-190204227.html

    What for? Totally unnecessary. I mean it's not like Russia complains when Maidan shells Donetsk. dunno

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #16 - Page 22 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

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