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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi on Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:27 am

    From Vietnamese Sputnik

    http://vn.sputniknews.com/business/20150609/366129.html

    Translation

    Kyiv hopes to sell their state companies to the United States.

    Kyiv sells itself to the U.S.

    Kyiv hopes that the U.S. investors may invest into the Ukraina state companies. And then these companies will be sold "under the most transparent conditions" - Ukraine Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said.

    According to the Ukrainian goverment's media, Mr. Yatseniuk said that: on 13 July, the U.S - Ukrainian Investment Conference will be held in Washington D.C.

    "We want to begin the privatization. If the U.S. investors decide to invest into Ukrainian state companies, then we would like to sell it under the most transparent conditions, and see the U.S. owners on Ukrainian territory", Mr. Yatsenyuk said.

    ================

    Similar article on RT: http://rt.com/business/265933-ukraine-companies-us-investors/

    Ukraine’s Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk hopes to sell the country’s state-owned companies to the US. American investors will get the assets “on the most transparent conditions” if they decide to invest, he said.

    The statement comes ahead of a Ukrainian-American investment conference in Washington on July 13.

    “We want to start the privatization process… We want to see American owners on the territory of Ukraine, they will bring not only investment, but also new standards, new ways of managing the companies, and a new investment culture,” Yatsenyuk was cited as saying during his meeting with the representatives of Ukraine’s diaspora in Washington, UNIAN reported on Tuesday. Yatsenyuk and Ukraine’s Finance Minister Natalia Jaresko are in the US capital on a working visit which will last until June 10.

    ================

    My comments: Well, assumed that what Vietnamese Sputnik said is the truth, then

    F**K YOU, you self-proclaimed "Ukrainian nationalist". Have you seen your Maidan government sells your own country to the Western oligarchs ?

    You are fighting against Russia. Okay, but what are you fighting for ? You fight for yourself, or you fight for the White House, for the Zionists, for the Western "democrazy" world ?
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    Vann7

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    Post  Vann7 on Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:52 am

    What kind of Caliber is the gun of this light tank?

    at 6:00 minutes..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ionGIjhwJHg#t=366


    In other news the Crimea thing from Europe is lip service to US.. they know
    Russia will not give away Crimea and that is lost. .reason why Minsk-2 does not mentions
    Crimea at all.

    Now in G7 they mention it under Obama pressure , but is just PR ..
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    Post  OminousSpudd on Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:52 am

    Vann7 wrote:What kind of Caliber is the gun of this light tank?

    at 6:00 minutes..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ionGIjhwJHg#t=366


    In other news the Crimea thing from Europe is lip service to US.. they know
    Russia will not give away Crimea and that is lost. .reason why Minsk-2 does not mentions
    Crimea at all.

    Now in G7 they mention it under Obama pressure , but is just PR ..

    73mm.

    Standard primary for the BMP-1.
    auslander
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    Post  auslander on Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:06 am

    You will see Krimea and Sevastopol returning to orcland about the same time you see the dark lord driving a snowplow in his underworld kingdom.
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    whir

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    Post  whir on Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:20 am

    Bloomberg wrote:IMF Says It May Finance Ukraine Even If Creditors Don’t Get Paid
    by Andrew Mayeda and Kasia Klimasinska June 9, 2015 — 7:04 PM CEST

    The International Monetary Fund’s No. 2 official said the crisis lender can keep supporting Ukraine even if the country doesn’t pay its bondholders.

    “We have a policy of lending into arrears which allows us to continue lending to a member state when it has arrears with private creditors, providing it’s fulfilling all its other commitments that it’s made to us,” IMF First Deputy Managing Director David Lipton said Tuesday in Washington. “This is a way we can go forward.”

    Lipton’s comments suggest Ukraine may be able to keep drawing on IMF funding even as talks with the nation’s bondholders drag on, strengthening its hand in negotiations with creditors. A halt to IMF financing would cut off a vital source of cash for the country as it struggles through a recession and signs of renewed conflict with pro-Russian separatists in its eastern region.

    Ukraine’s government is negotiating with holders of its sovereign bonds in an attempt to reduce the country’s debt. A $17.5-billion bailout by the IMF assumes Ukraine can save $15.3 billion by 2018 through the debt restructuring.

    Speaking in an interview Tuesday in Washington, Ukrainian Finance Minister Natalie Jaresko said she hopes the debt talks will be resolved in a “reasonable period of time.”

    Her government is willing to compromise within the parameters of the criteria set by the IMF, as long as a deal doesn’t involve using central bank reserves to pay debt, said Jaresko, who is visiting Washington this week for talks, including with U.S. Treasury officials. Continue reading.
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    Karl Haushofer

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    Post  Karl Haushofer on Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:30 am

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:To be brief - I am pissed off at how the situation in the east looks like now.

    There is way too little initiative on DNR/LNR side - the front urgently needs to move several dozen kilometers west, away fron Donetsk and Gorlovka. Now when arms are arriving again, it would be quite easy to pull off another Debeltsevo in July-August.

    BTW: That commercial about Ukrainian AF is funny actually - when was the last time Ukrainians used air force in this conflict? A year ago?
    Here is a long article about the overall situation of Ukraine in Slavyangrad: http://slavyangrad.org/2015/06/07/ukraine-what-remains-of-minsk/

    For the bolded part: The article claims that the NAF could have taken Mariupol and gone further towards Kherson last September, but was stopped by the Kremlin from doing so. For some reason the Kremlin thinks that Novorossiya should not get any more territory than they currently have.
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    Rodinazombie

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    Post  Rodinazombie on Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:37 am

    Donetsk in flames, result of last nights shelling by the ukrainian army



    Ukies using incendiaries against civilian areas



    CCTV recorded the shelling of donetsk train station by ukrainian forces



    Kiosk owners have blocked a street in kiev in protest. Its only small, but it just shows every man and his dog is pissed with the current regime.

    https://i.servimg.com/u/f18/19/24/60/67/image13.jpg

    How do i get this image to show? I havent got a clue about linking pics to forums, cheers!
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    Post  whir on Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:00 am

    Rodinazombie wrote:Kiosk owners have blocked a street in kiev in protest. Its only small, but it just shows every man and his dog is pissed with the current regime.
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #15 - Page 20 Image13
    How do i get this image to show? I havent got a clue about linking pics to forums, cheers!
    Just add [ img ] before the image url and [ /img ] after (without the blank spaces inside the brackets) or hit the "Insert an image" button and paste the url there (it's the second icon to the left of the Youtube's one).

    Kiosks may not be glamorous but provide the so much needed income for many families.


    Last edited by whir on Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Rodinazombie on Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:02 am

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:To be brief - I am pissed off at how the situation in the east looks like now.

    There is way too little initiative on DNR/LNR side - the front urgently needs to move several dozen kilometers west, away fron Donetsk and Gorlovka. Now when arms are arriving again, it would be quite easy to pull off another Debeltsevo in July-August.

    BTW: That commercial about Ukrainian AF is funny actually - when was the last time Ukrainians used air force in this conflict? A year ago?
    Here is a long article about the overall situation of Ukraine in Slavyangrad: http://slavyangrad.org/2015/06/07/ukraine-what-remains-of-minsk/

    For the bolded part: The article claims that the NAF could have taken Mariupol and gone further towards Kherson last September, but was stopped by the Kremlin from doing so. For some reason the Kremlin thinks that Novorossiya should not get any more territory than they currently have.

    I can understand that not allowing novorossia to gain more territory makes sense in terms of stopping the war, but in this case it helps to prolong it because the ukies are so close to the major cities they can just sit back and shell them for the fun of it.

    They should have been pushed back at least 30-50km from donetsk city, at least if there would be minor shirokino style skirmishes, it would be much better than having the capital under constant ukie shelling.

    What worries me a little, is that the eu-russia ties are very slowly thawing. And that obama is a lame duck that can do nothing is becoming apparent to all and some eu members are starting to look east. Too aggressive a move may swing the pendulum back the other way and russia could lose the political gains its made recently, is putin ready to sacrifice that for the sake of a few dozen civilians here and there in donbass? Or will he look away as long as the fighting doesnt become too noticable?





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    Post  Karl Haushofer on Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:17 am

    Well, I have pretty much given up any hope that Russia is going to change its policy towards Ukraine and Donbass. Another gas discount for Ukraine yesterday was the final nail to the coffin. A year ago I used to watch these videos of shelling and people being killed with fury and wanting to revenge on Kiev, but now I decide to skip them. No need to get my blood pressure up knowing that the ones who commit these crimes will not be punished in any way, and the shelling and suffering of Novorossiyan people is not going to stop in the foreseeable future.

    Russia is in a position to stop this violence (give the NAF enough help to drive the Kiev regime 30-50km westwards from the current line) but for whatever reason Russia does not see this as necessary. People of Novorossiya have become victims of the blood lust of Kiev/the West and Russia's unwillingness to interfere.

    This is why I talk about surrender. The current situation is the worst for Novorossiya. If Russia does not care about Novorossiya then why should Novorosiya care about Russia's geopolitical interests? Just surrender and stop the war. Let's have the NATO build a military base in Donetsk. That will teach Russia a lesson.


    Last edited by Karl Haushofer on Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:22 am; edited 2 times in total
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi on Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:19 am

    whir wrote:
    Bloomberg wrote:IMF Says It May Finance Ukraine Even If Creditors Don’t Get Paid
    by Andrew Mayeda and Kasia Klimasinska June 9, 2015 — 7:04 PM CEST

    Paper is cheap and printing ink is not something very expensive... the FED still can provide quite a great number of printed papers to Ukraina as long as it ignores the devaluation and inflation of the U.S. currency.
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    Post  Erk on Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:22 am

    Karl Haushofer wrote:Well, I have pretty much given up any hope that Russia is going to change its policy towards Ukraine and Donbass. Another gas discount for Ukraine yesterday was the final nail to the coffin. A year ago I used to watch these videos of shelling and people being killed with fury and wanting to revenge on Kiev, but now I decide to skip them. No need to get my blood pressure up knowing that the ones who commit these crimes will not be punished in any way, and the shelling and suffering of Novorossiyan people is not going to stop in the foreseeable future.

    Russia is in a position to stop this violence (give the NAF enough help to drive the Kiev regime 30-50km westwards from the current line) but for whatever reason Russia does not see this as necessary. People of Novorossiya have become victims of the blood lust of Kiev/the West and Russia's unwillingness to interfere.

    This is why I talk about surrender. The current situation is the worst for Novorossiya. If Russia does not care about Novorossiya then why should Novorosiya care about Russia's geopolitical interests? Just surrender and stop the war.

    I am quite sure there are smart people in the NAF and Russia that know exactly what the pros and cons of the current situation is, if it were as easy as you say to just push the UAF 20-30km further west I am sure they would have done it by now. Every move has it's repercussions.




    Kiev concentrating forces near Donetsk.


    Last edited by Erk on Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:41 am; edited 1 time in total
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi on Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:30 am

    Karl Haushofer wrote:Well, I have pretty much given up any hope that Russia is going to change its policy towards Ukraine and Donbass. Another gas discount for Ukraine yesterday was the final nail to the coffin. A year ago I used to watch these videos of shelling and people being killed with fury and wanting to revenge on Kiev, but now I decide to skip them. No need to get my blood pressure up knowing that the ones who commit these crimes will not be punished in any way, and the shelling and suffering of Novorossiyan people is not going to stop in the foreseeable future.

    Russia is in a position to stop this violence (give the NAF enough help to drive the Kiev regime 30-50km westwards from the current line) but for whatever reason Russia does not see this as necessary. People of Novorossiya have become victims of the blood lust of Kiev/the West and Russia's unwillingness to interfere.

    This is why I talk about surrender. The current situation is the worst for Novorossiya. If Russia does not care about Novorossiya then why should Novorosiya care about Russia's geopolitical interests? Just surrender and stop the war.

    You don't understand the issue here. The problem is that, both NAF and Russia don't want to be labelled as an aggressor. Politically and diplomatically that will be detrimental to them. Western propaganda is very good at exploiting such mistakes. The amount brainwashed people in the West is masssive enough for them to use against Russia.

    You can see how terrible the situation in Ukraine here: corrupted goverment, slavery chains of the White House, economic devastation, financial bankrupcy. More and more Maidanists begin to feel that they are being backstabbed and "Western paradise, evil Russia" are nothing but liars and delusions.

    Maidan is dying, let it naturally die is diplomatically and politically beneficial for Russia, because that will exposed the nature of the Western oligarchs in front of the Western people.
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    Post  Karl Haushofer on Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:31 am

    Erk wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:Well, I have pretty much given up any hope that Russia is going to change its policy towards Ukraine and Donbass. Another gas discount for Ukraine yesterday was the final nail to the coffin. A year ago I used to watch these videos of shelling and people being killed with fury and wanting to revenge on Kiev, but now I decide to skip them. No need to get my blood pressure up knowing that the ones who commit these crimes will not be punished in any way, and the shelling and suffering of Novorossiyan people is not going to stop in the foreseeable future.

    Russia is in a position to stop this violence (give the NAF enough help to drive the Kiev regime 30-50km westwards from the current line) but for whatever reason Russia does not see this as necessary. People of Novorossiya have become victims of the blood lust of Kiev/the West and Russia's unwillingness to interfere.

    This is why I talk about surrender. The current situation is the worst for Novorossiya. If Russia does not care about Novorossiya then why should Novorosiya care about Russia's geopolitical interests? Just surrender and stop the war.

    I am quite sure there are smart people in the NAF and Russia that know exactly what the pros and cons of the current situation is, if it were as easy as you say to just push the UAF 20-30km further west I am sure they would have done it by now. Every move has it's repercussions.

    There is no easy way for doing it (pushing them 30-50km westwards) and it would require sacrifices. But let's remember that both of the Minsk agreements were made in a situation where the NAF was in a process to driving the regime forces westwards, away from Donetsk. Minsk agreements stopped this and allowed the regime to have a time to breath, rearm and regroup, and restart the shelling of Donetsk and Gorlovka (as the goal of driving the regime out of artillery range was not reached thanks to Minsk agreements).

    For me it is clear that Russia is letting the people of Novorossiya to suffer for reasons unknown to me (the fear of sanctions being increased, the oligarchic clan in the Kremlin prevailing over the patriots etc.).
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    Post  Regular on Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:19 am

    No matter what Russia or Novorosiya does - they are still are labeled as agressors.
    Russia is just playing political games there. I think it's about time we stop thinking that Russian gov cares about the suffering Russians there.
    Erk
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    Post  Erk on Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:56 am

    Regular wrote:No matter what Russia or Novorosiya does - they are still are labeled as agressors.
    Russia is just playing political games there. I think it's about time we stop thinking that Russian gov cares about the suffering Russians there.

    It's the general public who believe the labeling via the western media. The leaders of countries know the truth from their intelligence people, agreeing with Washington is for political reasons, not because leaders think it's the truth. Washington uses bribes or blackmail behind the scenes all the time to get what they want from other countries.

    Kiev will burn itself out, it's only a matter of time for the citizens to stop supporting the putsch government. Be patient. Then the US will have to resort to plan B.
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    Post  whir on Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:10 pm

    Regular wrote:I think it's about time we stop thinking that Russian gov cares about the suffering Russians there.
    Things could be a lot worse since the beginning at least give them some credit for multitasking to please a lot of different people at the same time since is not easy in politics.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #15 - Page 20 Empty SYRIZA party against EU sanctions against Russia ?

    Post  arpakola on Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:18 pm

    RESOLUTION of SYRIZA - KAISARIANI District, on the WAR IN UKRAINE AND THE planed SANCTIONS of EU AGAINST THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #15 - Page 20 RESOLUTION%2Bof%2BSYRIZA2
    Today, on 9 June 2015 SYRIZA Kaisarianis voted and adopted the following resolution:
    -------------------------------------------------- --------------------------
    "At the beginning of 2014 the legitimate president of Ukraine was toppled by a violent coup organised by far right and Nazi elements.
    The inhabitants of the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine did not recognize the new regime and rdecided by referendums to become independent. In particular the cities of Lugansk and Donetsk they have experienced for the last year the barbarism of the bombing by the Kiev regime with heavy artillery in their cities with carnage of dead and infrastructure disasters.

    For that reason:
    1. We condemn the aggressive actions of the authoritarian regime of Kiev in the cities of East Ukraine
    2. We support the maintenance of MINSK II Agreement that includes the
    demilitarization of the conflict zone and free from heavy weapons.
    3. We call on the Greek government and the Foreign Ministry not to vote for and to vote against the planned EU sanctions proposal against Russia in late June, sanctions that will hurt also the struggling people of East Ukraine and will support the authoritarian regime of Kiev.

    This resolution will be made public and proposed also to the Central Committee of the party, whih is also invited to announce a resolution on this issue. "

    http://www.zougla.gr/blog/article/1189976
    http://garizo.blogspot.gr/2015/06/blog-post_10.html
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    Post  Rodinazombie on Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:42 pm

    Erk wrote:
    Regular wrote:No matter what Russia or Novorosiya does - they are still are labeled as agressors.
    Russia is just playing political games there. I think it's about time we stop thinking that Russian gov cares about the suffering Russians there.

    It's the general public who believe the labeling via the western media. The leaders of countries know the truth from their intelligence people, agreeing with Washington is for political reasons, not because leaders think it's the truth. Washington uses bribes or blackmail behind the scenes all the time to get what they want from other countries.

    Kiev will burn itself out, it's only a matter of time for the citizens to stop supporting the putsch government. Be patient. Then the US will have to resort to plan B.

    What do you think plan B will be?





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    Post  whir on Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:44 pm

    arpakola wrote:RESOLUTION of SYRIZA - KAISARIANI District, on the WAR IN UKRAINE AND THE planed SANCTIONS of EU AGAINST THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION
    Isn't Kaisariani the same district ruled by Syria in northern Athens that openly calls current Greek Government liars for betraying Greek voters? Rolling Eyes
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:51 pm

    Rodinazombie wrote:.................................................................

    I can understand that not allowing novorossia to gain more territory makes sense in terms of stopping the war, but in this case it helps to prolong it because the ukies are so close to the major cities they can just sit back and shell them for the fun of it.

    They should have been pushed back at least 30-50km from donetsk city, at least if there would be minor shirokino style skirmishes, it would be much better than having the capital under constant ukie shelling.

    What worries me a little, is that the eu-russia ties are very slowly thawing. And that obama is a lame duck that can do nothing is becoming apparent to all and some eu members are starting to look east. Too aggressive a move may swing the pendulum back the other way and russia could lose the political gains its made recently, is putin ready to sacrifice that for the sake of a few dozen civilians here and there in donbass? Or will he look away as long as the fighting doesnt become too noticable?

    Keeping status quo is by no means good news for Kiev.

    In practice this means that Russia will play the long game and instead of quickly removing Novorossia from Ukraine (at very high price) they are determined to use current situation not only to win de-facto independence for Novorossia but to erase the very concept of Ukrainian statehood.

    We said before that endgame might very well be partition and reformatting Ukraine into loose neutral confederacy or something similar.
    This would be first phase of that plan and it's implementation will be long and extremely painful for your average holhol.  Twisted Evil

    As for ukrop shelling, yes it is tragic beyond description but those are realities of war.
    On the upside, you will notice that ukrops are not really getting away with it for free, even now. Just take a gander at UAF casualties that Flagship Victory posts daily (BTW thank you for the regular info FV, keep it up thumbsup  )      

    As for Russia/EU thing, I think it is too early to say anything with certainty. What I do know is that heads of industry in EU (people who create jobs and income) are not pleased with current situation at all.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:58 pm

    Erk wrote:
    Regular wrote:No matter what Russia or Novorosiya does - they are still are labeled as agressors.
    Russia is just playing political games there. I think it's about time we stop thinking that Russian gov cares about the suffering Russians there.

    It's the general public who believe the labeling via the western media. The leaders of countries know the truth from their intelligence people, agreeing with Washington is for political reasons, not because leaders think it's the truth. Washington uses bribes or blackmail behind the scenes all the time to get what they want from other countries.

    Kiev will burn itself out, it's only a matter of time for the citizens to stop supporting the putsch government. Be patient. Then the US will have to resort to plan B.

    Excellent and concise post Erk, thank you. The bolded part saved me from having to type entire page of text.
    Have an up-vote on me... respekt
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:16 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Erk wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:Well, I have pretty much given up any hope that Russia is going to change its policy towards Ukraine and Donbass. Another gas discount for Ukraine yesterday was the final nail to the coffin. A year ago I used to watch these videos of shelling and people being killed with fury and wanting to revenge on Kiev, but now I decide to skip them. No need to get my blood pressure up knowing that the ones who commit these crimes will not be punished in any way, and the shelling and suffering of Novorossiyan people is not going to stop in the foreseeable future.

    Russia is in a position to stop this violence (give the NAF enough help to drive the Kiev regime 30-50km westwards from the current line) but for whatever reason Russia does not see this as necessary. People of Novorossiya have become victims of the blood lust of Kiev/the West and Russia's unwillingness to interfere.

    This is why I talk about surrender. The current situation is the worst for Novorossiya. If Russia does not care about Novorossiya then why should Novorosiya care about Russia's geopolitical interests? Just surrender and stop the war.

    I am quite sure there are smart people in the NAF and Russia that know exactly what the pros and cons of the current situation is, if it were as easy as you say to just push the UAF 20-30km further west I am sure they would have done it by now. Every move has it's repercussions.

    There is no easy way for doing it (pushing them 30-50km westwards) and it would require sacrifices. But let's remember that both of the Minsk agreements were made in a situation where the NAF was in a process to driving the regime forces westwards, away from Donetsk. Minsk agreements stopped this and allowed the regime to have a time to breath, rearm and regroup, and restart the shelling of Donetsk and Gorlovka (as the goal of driving the regime out of artillery range was not reached thanks to Minsk agreements).

    For me it is clear that Russia is letting the people of Novorossiya to suffer for reasons unknown to me (the fear of sanctions being increased, the oligarchic clan in the Kremlin prevailing over the patriots etc.).

    "oligarchic clan in the Kremlin" ...

    What utter drivel. Oligarchs don't rule Russia. They have been tamed since Putin read them them the riot act back in the early days of his 1st Presidency, and the examples of Berezovsky and Khordorkovsky have left an indelible mark on their memories. They fully realise that their continued prosperity depends on closing ranks with the government, and "unpatriotic" behaviour will spell their downfall.

    Russia's gameplan (its not just Putin) is to play fair where possible and not appear to be the aggressor. The Washington-owned Eurotrash elite can make their speeches and engage in arrogant posturing and silly diatribes, but they cannot compel Russia to back down. The DPR/LPR will remain secure from the Kiev junta (the odd low-level shelling notwithstanding) while the deepening economic malaise takes its toll and rots the Ukrop regime from the inside out. There is a limit to how much free financial support the US/EU can give to Ukraine before the inevitable questions start to be come insurmountable, ie why does the Ukr regime deserve such largesse when they continue to be the aggressors and refuse to honor Minsk II, while nations like Greece are read the riot act and receive no consideration, and the peoples of other EU nations are forced to swallow harsh austerity to pay for the expensive mistakes of the corrupt bankster class and the collective EU ruling elite. Outright rebellion in the face of such obstinacy is not out of the question, particular from Greece if Ferkel Merkel continues to be a hard core bitch.

    In a cold blooded way, civilian casualties actually work in favour of DPR/LPR/Russia as the Donbass publics hatred of the Ukrop and their US/EU enablers grows with each new atrocity. I hate to say it, as Ukrop war crimes sicken me to my core, but suffering is somewhat necessary to stiffen the spine and make people want to fight and resist. Peace would be nice, but would allow the Ukrop ultra-nationalist to consolidate their grip and advance the de-Russification agenda that has been so apparent over the last 20+ years. This way, Porkshank and the Lvov fascists loose legitimacy and the pendulum swings back to something that resembles normalcy.

    For the record, I'd like nothing more than to see the combined DPR/LPR and Russian military smash the Hohol filth and exterminate them in the field, and them proceed to Kiev (to overthrow the regime) and Lvov (to render the city down into a smoking pile of bricks and ashes). The real world however requires a more... subtle... approach. Twisted Evil
    Big_Gazza
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #15 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:25 pm

    Erk wrote:
    Regular wrote:No matter what Russia or Novorosiya does - they are still are labeled as agressors.
    Russia is just playing political games there. I think it's about time we stop thinking that Russian gov cares about the suffering Russians there.

    It's the general public who believe the labeling via the western media. The leaders of countries know the truth from their intelligence people, agreeing with Washington is for political reasons, not because leaders think it's the truth. Washington uses bribes or blackmail behind the scenes all the time to get what they want from other countries.

    Kiev will burn itself out, it's only a matter of time for the citizens to stop supporting the putsch government. Be patient. Then the US will have to resort to plan B.

    "Washington uses bribes or blackmail behind the scenes all the time to get what they want from other countries"

    I wonder what exactly is the leverage that Washington has that allows them to force the Eurotrash leaders to betray the interests of their own nations and people, and act as slavish stooges of Mordor on the Potomac. Merkel perplexes me greatly. I cannot believe that she doesn't know the truth, but her subservience to Uh'murican "leadership" is infuriating. I wonder if the NSA have evidence that she was an informant for the Stasi back in the days of the GDR?
    HeNeArKrXeRn_
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #15 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  HeNeArKrXeRn_ on Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:40 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Erk wrote:
    Regular wrote:No matter what Russia or Novorosiya does - they are still are labeled as agressors.
    Russia is just playing political games there. I think it's about time we stop thinking that Russian gov cares about the suffering Russians there.

    It's the general public who believe the labeling via the western media. The leaders of countries know the truth from their intelligence people, agreeing with Washington is for political reasons, not because leaders think it's the truth. Washington uses bribes or blackmail behind the scenes all the time to get what they want from other countries.

    Kiev will burn itself out, it's only a matter of time for the citizens to stop supporting the putsch government. Be patient. Then the US will have to resort to plan B.

    "Washington uses bribes or blackmail behind the scenes all the time to get what they want from other countries"

    I wonder what exactly is the leverage that Washington has that allows them to force the Eurotrash leaders to betray the interests of their own nations and people, and act as slavish stooges of Mordor on the Potomac.  Merkel perplexes me greatly.  I cannot believe that she doesn't know the truth, but her subservience to Uh'murican "leadership" is infuriating.  I wonder if the NSA have evidence that she was an informant for the Stasi back in the days of the GDR?

    watching Merkel act in the last few months, I came to the conclusion that the US has some major dirt on her (remember NSA bugging her phone?) and whenever she starts acting too independently they pull on the leash and she starts barking at Russia again.

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #15 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

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