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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

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    Cahaba

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    Post  Cahaba on Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:59 am

    I see XJ220 is still yanking chains.
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    Post  whir on Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:17 am

    TheMedvedova wrote:Ukraine: Railway train with 2S7 "Pion» - Ukraine
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    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:03 am

    whir wrote:
    TheMedvedova wrote:Ukraine: Railway train with 2S7 "Pion» - Ukraine

    Does NAF have any Pions in the inventory?
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    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:08 am

    Financial Times Says Sanctions Are Already Eroding

    Two simultaneous articles in the Financial Times confirm Western and Russian businesses are bypassing the sanctions with the collusion of Western governments less than a year after they were imposed


    Alexander Mercouris

    http://russia-insider.com/en/business/financial-times-says-sanctions-already-eroding/ri7991

    Two separate articles have just appeared simultaneously in the Financial Times that expose the limits of the West’s sanctions policy.

    The first, under the suggestive title “Sanctions new normal proves workable for business in Russia” ( http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/98cc653a-110d-11e5-8413-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3cmSLcwK1 ), discusses how Western companies operating in Russia have learned to carry on their business successfully despite the sanctions.

    The second article confirms that European oil companies including BP are continuing to strike big oil exploration and development deals in Russia.

    The first article is the more interesting. It shows that despite all the brave talk at the G7 summit of the sanctions being strengthened the sanctions in reality are already eroding.

    One of the most interesting examples is of a French company that cancelled an order for certain specialised equipment to a Russian company on the sanctions list only for a new previously unknown Russian company to step in immediately and place the same order.

    Elsewhere in the article we learn that Western companies are bypassing sanctions barring the export to Russia of dual-use technology items by exporting these items to Russia via partners or subsidiaries in third countries.

    Most interesting of all, it appears that the U.S. Treasury is itself colluding in the erosion of the financial sanctions, by permitting Russian companies on the sanctions list to borrow in Western financial markets. The relevant paragraph reads as follows:

       “The US Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control has advised banks and exporters that Russian entities subject to sectoral sanctions are generally allowed to make repeated drawdowns of 30 days or less as long as they repay in full each time. This in fact allows for continued credit in the form of consecutive 30-day tranches.”

    The second article, under the equally suggestive title “EU’s Russia sanctions fail to dent oil deals”, ( http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/21d66e58-10ef-11e5-8413-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3cmSLcwK1 ) sets out the deals currently being agreed between European oil companies and the two giant Russian energy companies, Gazprom and Rosneft – both of which are subject to sanctions:

       “BP is close to agreeing a deal to acquire a 20 per cent stake in a Siberian oilfield from state-owned Rosneft that could be worth $700m, people familiar with the matter told the Financial Times, while Eni and Statoil have received approval from European capitals to continue work on their joint ventures with Rosneft. Shell is also still working on its Salym joint venture with Gazprom Neft, the oil arm of the Russian gas giant, and has applied for approval from the Dutch government for other projects.”

    The article admits that many of these deals are being made on the assumption that the sanctions policy is temporary. That is another way of saying that the European oil companies oppose the policy and will, when the time is ripe, lobby to end it.

    In a recent article in which I discussed the G7 summit’s decision to press for an extension of the sanctions I predicted that the sanctions would not be formally lifted but would more probably gradually melt away, much as the sanctions the West imposed on China after the Tiananmen affair have done (see the last paragraph in “G7 and Sanctions: Doubling Down on a Failed Policy”, Russia Insider, 9th June 2015).

    The two articles in the Financial Times show that this is already happening and moreover with the collusion of Western governments.

    It is important not to overstate what is going on. The sanctions remain in effect and the fact that business people are finding ways around them does not mean that their effectiveness has gone and that the entire sanctions regime is on the brink of collapse. We are still some way off the point when that will happen.

    However the fact that even the Financial Times is now publicly saying that the sanctions are eroding, less than a year after they were imposed, is the strongest possible sign that the day when that will happen is not so far off.
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    Post  higurashihougi on Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:13 am

    Neutrality wrote:People in Odessa protesting against Saakashvili

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tSg6ZzAqJNY

    Cool Cool

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #15 - Page 30 Sddfas10
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    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:16 am

    Flagship Victory wrote:.......................................................
    The EU does not need Russian gas. If you look at what the EU has been doing over the past decade or so, you would know the EU has pretty much completely transitioned away from gas. The EU itself is very warm because of the Gulf Stream. Berlin is routinely at least 6 C throughout the winter. No need for gas. Denmark already completely uses wind for energy. Well over half of Germany's energy is now provided by wind. Britain, France hardly imports any gas from Russia. Once Germany transitions to wind, then the EU will stop buying gas from Russia. There would be no need.

    Dude not a single word in that post is even remotely accurate...... No

    ------------------------------------------------


    I have a suggestion for your new avatar lol1 Very Happy  :

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #15 - Page 30 C6e5ee001484dc4c3f99c7f5e84dc728
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    Post  Guest on Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:58 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:.......................................................
    The EU does not need Russian gas. If you look at what the EU has been doing over the past decade or so, you would know the EU has pretty much completely transitioned away from gas. The EU itself is very warm because of the Gulf Stream. Berlin is routinely at least 6 C throughout the winter. No need for gas. Denmark already completely uses wind for energy. Well over half of Germany's energy is now provided by wind. Britain, France hardly imports any gas from Russia. Once Germany transitions to wind, then the EU will stop buying gas from Russia. There would be no need.

    Dude not a single word in that post is even remotely accurate...... No

    ------------------------------------------------


    I have a suggestion for your new avatar lol1 Very Happy  :

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #15 - Page 30 C6e5ee001484dc4c3f99c7f5e84dc728
    Haha, made my day PapaDragon. +1 for you!
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    Post  auslander on Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:33 am

    PapaDragon wrote: Does NAF have any Pions in the inventory?

    Yes, at least one and maybe two, captured a few months ago. I do not know if they have been used operationally but I do know it or they have been tested.
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    Post  TheArmenian on Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:00 am

    Papadragon,

    Thanks for posting that article about the erosion of the sanctions.

    I upvoted your post.
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    Post  Rodinazombie on Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:32 am

    Just seeing photos of people in donetsk protesting outside DNR government building, demanding that shelling stop. Theres a good few hundred there from what i can see.

    Looks like ukrainian tactics are working.
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    Post  whir on Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:50 am

    @aa_borodulin wrote:Zakharchenko less reassured residents. Some people begin to disperse, others continue to ask questions.
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #15 - Page 30 B983

    Rodinazombie wrote:Looks like ukrainian tactics are working.
    I bet one Internet that most of those people are demanding to put an end to the shelling by force.
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    Post  Erk on Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:59 am

    whir wrote:
    I bet one Internet that most of those people are demanding to put an end to the shelling by force.

    They should volunteer for the front line then.
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    Post  gregoire on Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:59 am

    Flagship Victory wrote:Another thing to note is that Putin is a very emotional person. When Putin signed accession treaty with Crimea last March, it was purely out of emotion, no planning, no logic. In hindsight, it was the right move for Russia. Had Putin simply occupied Crimea without absorbing it into Russia, then EU sanctions would have forced Putin to return Crimea to Ukraine because over time Putin's anger of Maidan subsided and is no longer angry with Maidan and refer to Maidan as fascist coup, now referring to Maidan as the legitimate government of Ukraine whom the people of Ukraine want because the people of Ukraine are fed up with corruption.

    Maybe you lack some extra parameters to come to the right conclusion or you bought lock stock and barrel into the western propaganda.
    Crimea has been the target from the day the junta took over. Losing it would have been a monumental strategic and historic loss. They would never allow this to happen. No emotions there. It was the right move in pre-sight not hindsight and it was well prepared. The EU's reaction was belated and only came into full force after MH17. They only use crimea to keep enforcing sanctions. Crimea will never leave Russia. Putin is not a person to let emotion dictate foreign policy and so should every other politician (which is true for most of them).
    If anything, Russia and thus President Putin were forced to act, since Russia has always seen the Ukraine as part of the russian world albeit with it's own problem and peculiarities. Up until last year the Krim was "save" with that Ukraine but after that not save with the western dictated junta.
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    Post  Karl Haushofer on Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:08 am

    Erk wrote:
    whir wrote:
    I bet one Internet that most of those people are demanding to put an end to the shelling by force.

    They should volunteer for the front line then.
    Women and children too?

    These people just want the war to end. It is their homes being destroyed. It is their people getting killed. They don't give a fuck about geopolitical games between Russia and the West. They just want this war to end. If Russia/NAF is unable to drive the Kiev junta away from the shelling distance of Donetsk then they better surrender and let Kiev have Donbass.
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    Post  whir on Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:16 am

    LNR Today via Google Translate wrote:ВНИМАНИЕ ВАЖНО: ДВА СОТРУДНИКА СВР УКРАИНЫ ПЕРЕШЛИ НА СТОРОНУ ЛНР!
    IMPORTANT NOTE: Two employees of the Foreign Intelligence Service of Ukraine took the side of the LC!
    June 15 2015 Author Svetlana Sokolova. Posted in News

    Today, in the capital of LC in Lugansk held a press conference with two members of the Foreign Intelligence Service of Ukraine, who went over to the LC.

    It is now possible to declassify their names are brothers Miroshnichenko Alexei Mikhailovich, who previously worked in the fifth department SVRU and doing intelligence and counterintelligence activities against the Russian Federation and LC, as well as Yury Miroshnichenko, who worked in the Foreign Intelligence Service in France and gather intelligence Ukraine.

    According to the data of CBP officers told our channel - "We have decided to return to his hometown to help the formation of the young republic, Takako can no longer tolerate the actions of the junta," explained the officer.

    During this press conference will highlight issues such as - the mass graves of the dead civilians and soldiers in mass graves in Ukraine, APU real losses in the fighting as well as ways of hiding losses APU. Moreover, employees SVRU promised to reveal the true plans of the junta during the war as well as declassified US plans and their activities on the territory of Ukraine. "

    SVR officers added that "employees of CBP who want to go on the side - a lot of fear."

    In the near future on our site there was a video press conference and exclusive video interviews with scouts specifically for lnr.today Continue reading.

    TASS wrote:Kiev digs 100 kilometers of anti-tank ditches on border with Russia — PM
    World June 15, 12:52 UTC+3

    Ukraine's Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk noted that full control over the Ukrainian-Russian border is required by the Minsk agreements

    KIEV, June 15. /TASS/. Ukraine has equipped more than 100 kilometers of anti-tank ditches on the border with Russia as part of the European Wall project, Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said on Monday. He was speaking during the ceremony of the handover of vehicles and equipment to the State Border Guard Service of Ukraine provided by the European Union.

    "Over the past few months, more than one hundred kilometers of anti-tank ditches, 50 watchtowers and about 400 kilometers of exclusion zone have been equipped. Ukraine is building a high-quality state border," he said.

    Yatsenyuk noted that, in accordance with the Minsk agreements, "full control over the Ukrainian-Russian border" had to be restored.
    "To make the Ukrainian Border Guard Service truly European and to ensure that it fulfills its tasks to prevent illegal border crossing and control over it, our European partners have allocated a significant amount of financial resources used for purchasing new equipment, vehicles and new control systems," the Ukrainian prime minister said.

    The European Wall is a unilateral initiative by the authorities in Kiev to equip Ukraine’s border with Russia. The project initially called The Wall envisages construction of trenches, ditches as well as special facilities. Continue reading.

    Последние Новости wrote:Army DNR strengthen the defense on all fronts. Special Report | Latest News
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    Post  Khepesh on Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:29 am

    I wonder how many people need to be killed and wounded, how many homes destroyed, before they are allowed to fight back? What does Surkov's instruction manual for forums and social media say about this, as it seems only the views of Surkov are now allowed here and I would not like to offend with crazy wild talk of "morality" or "inaction".

    Hail the "partners"! let the proletariat die for the greater good. Hail the heroes dying for the cause of inaction! Let not Vanya Voronin say a word against those who have destroyed his life as that would be a crime against the glorious "partners". Forget Odessa as it is inconvenient for the "partners". Forget Mozgovoi as his politics, his morality, were inconvenient and upset the "partners". Hail the "partners"! Hail $$$! Hail death!
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    Post  Karl Haushofer on Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:34 am

    Khepesh wrote:I wonder how many people need to be killed and wounded, how many homes destroyed, before they are allowed to fight back? What does Surkov's instruction manual for forums and social media say about this, as it seems only the views of Surkov are now allowed here and I would not like to offend with crazy wild talk of "morality" or "inaction".

    Hail the "partners"! let the proletariat die for the greater good. Hail the heroes dying for the cause of inaction! Let not Vanya Voronin say a word against those who have destroyed his life as that would be a crime against the glorious "partners". Forget Odessa as it is inconvenient for the "partners". Forget Mozgovoi as his politics, his morality, were inconvenient and upset the "partners". Hail the "partners"! Hail $$$! Hail death!
    I was VERY supportive towards Novorossiya when the war started. I wanted them to win and crush the Kiev fascists.

    Now I have become just disgusted about the whole thing. For me it is not important who wins this war. I just want it to end.
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    Post  Khepesh on Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:47 am

    Zakharchenko has said that Oktyarbsky will be evacuated. Then what, Petrovsky, Kievsky, Kuibishevsky, and one day we see that all of Donetsk is evacuated because to push the enemy artillery back will be "bad". Then one day we wake up and Donbass is evacuated because inaction is the way forward. Then NATO on the western border, but quiet, don't say anything or the fucking "partners" will get upset. Let's all just wait and everything will be fine.....
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    Post  Karl Haushofer on Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:51 am

    Khepesh wrote:Zakharchenko has said that Oktyarbsky will be evacuated. Then what, Petrovsky, Kievsky, Kuibishevsky, and one day we see that all of Donetsk is evacuated because to push the enemy artillery back will be "bad". Then one day we wake up and Donbass is evacuated because inaction is the way forward. Then NATO on the western border, but quiet, don't say anything or the fucking "partners" will get upset. Let's all just wait and everything will be fine.....
    You don't see Putin's cunning plan?

    BTW, why is the Kremlin still using that moronic word "partners"?
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    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:05 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Erk wrote:
    whir wrote:
    I bet one Internet that most of those people are demanding to put an end to the shelling by force.

    They should volunteer for the front line then.
    Women and children too?

    These people just want the war to end. It is their homes being destroyed. It is their people getting killed. They don't give a fuck about geopolitical games between Russia and the West. They just want this war to end. If Russia/NAF is unable to drive the Kiev junta away from the shelling distance of Donetsk then they better surrender and let Kiev have Donbass.

    You might be on to something there, I am sure Azov boys will show great restraint and understanding towards local population once they set up shop... Rolling Eyes
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    Post  Karl Haushofer on Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:12 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Erk wrote:
    whir wrote:
    I bet one Internet that most of those people are demanding to put an end to the shelling by force.

    They should volunteer for the front line then.
    Women and children too?

    These people just want the war to end. It is their homes being destroyed. It is their people getting killed. They don't give a fuck about geopolitical games between Russia and the West. They just want this war to end. If Russia/NAF is unable to drive the Kiev junta away from the shelling distance of Donetsk then they better surrender and let Kiev have Donbass.

    You might be on to something there, I am sure Azov boys will show great restraint and understanding towards local population once they  set up shop... Rolling Eyes
    Did they kill everyone in Kramatorsk and Slavyansk?

    I have no doubt that they will show no mercy to those who were part of the DPR/LPR power structures and those who cooperated with them, but I doubt they will just wipe out the whole population. Naturally the DPR/LPR leadership and all the military personnel would have to escape to Russia before the final surrender. Russia should accept anyone who wants to leave and only those who want to stay will stay. Let Kiev have this territory and end the war.
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    Post  Flagship Victory on Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:25 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:Women and children too?

    These people just want the war to end. It is their homes being destroyed. It is their people getting killed. They don't give a fuck about geopolitical games between Russia and the West. They just want this war to end. If Russia/NAF is unable to drive the Kiev junta away from the shelling distance of Donetsk then they better surrender and let Kiev have Donbass.

    If they want their voices heard, what they should do is go to Moscow and demonstrate outside the Kremlin. It is Putin who does not allow NAF to fight back because he has to keep selling gas to the EU for income.
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    Post  Rodinazombie on Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:29 pm

    Khepesh wrote:I wonder how many people need to be killed and wounded, how many homes destroyed, before they are allowed to fight back? What does Surkov's instruction manual for forums and social media say about this, as it seems only the views of Surkov are now allowed here and I would not like to offend with crazy wild talk of "morality" or "inaction".

    Hail the "partners"! let the proletariat die for the greater good. Hail the heroes dying for the cause of inaction! Let not Vanya Voronin say a word against those who have destroyed his life as that would be a crime against the glorious "partners". Forget Odessa as it is inconvenient for the "partners". Forget Mozgovoi as his politics, his morality, were inconvenient and upset the "partners". Hail the "partners"! Hail $$$! Hail death!

    Voted you up for that mate as your post sums up my feelings exactly.

    Whatever people may think about how great putin and co are, the hypocrisy of the kremlins attitude to protecting russians in crimea and in donbass make me sick, likewise the pussyfooting around and naming 'partners'  the very people who are supporting the people who kill your brothers and shit in your face at every opportunity.

    The kremlin may have a so called grand plan, but as i see it, they have a plan yes, but its not great. Maidan was a huge cockup that they did nothing about until it was too late, even though it could be seen coming for years with all the colour revolutions and anti russian brainwashing going on. Crimea was a snap decision (though impeccably executed) and ever since then russia has been flip-flopping between allowing the rebels to fight and protect themselves, and stopping them whilst doing business with the enemy.

    Russias plan does not make it look like a powerful country, who will at a moments notice support its allies. If it cant protect its brethren properly right on its border because its more concerned about its wallet, then what country or people would really be able to trust it as an ally in future?

    Short clip of the protestors in donetsk.

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    Post  Werewolf on Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:33 pm

    Ohh dear...some of you drama queens... you really have not a clue how strategy works? You haven't read any historical wars? You have not a singe clue about geopolitics?

    It is like a butcher standing in emergancy room and trying to tell surgeons how to safe lifes. This isn't about cutting out one little cancerous spot, it is about saving the entire body. You seize now DNR/LPR into RF it will make it russian soil and will make it direct war not a proxy war, meaning you have a war inside russia which USrael wants. The strategy is to get all russian soil back (Ukraine), seize one part after another it will look like occupation, get the whole thing in one will be what it is a sezession in this case it does not matter what the west things, those chihuahas do not matter for anyone, what matters is the citizens within, how they will see it. Either occupation of territory one after another or like reunion, after that let the purge begin of any Azov, any SALA Ukrainian scum or any jewish oligarch that financed genocide of russians.
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    Post  Flagship Victory on Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:34 pm

    Khepesh wrote:I wonder how many people need to be killed and wounded, how many homes destroyed, before they are allowed to fight back? What does Surkov's instruction manual for forums and social media say about this, as it seems only the views of Surkov are now allowed here and I would not like to offend with crazy wild talk of "morality" or "inaction".

    Hail the "partners"! let the proletariat die for the greater good. Hail the heroes dying for the cause of inaction! Let not Vanya Voronin say a word against those who have destroyed his life as that would be a crime against the glorious "partners". Forget Odessa as it is inconvenient for the "partners". Forget Mozgovoi as his politics, his morality, were inconvenient and upset the "partners". Hail the "partners"! Hail $$$! Hail death!

    My guess is there is no limit. Putin views the EU as Russia's strategic partner and brother nation. Putin will never allow NAF to fight back because that would anger the EU.

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