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    Venezuela crisis

    Poll

    Will usa be successful in installing it's puppet

    [ 9 ]
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    Total Votes: 36
    GarryB
    GarryB

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    Venezuela crisis - Page 38 Empty Re: Venezuela crisis

    Post  GarryB Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:38 am

    Venezuelas dependency on oil increased under Chavez. Just look up the numbers.

    Chavez greatly improved conditions of the poor in Venezuela... most western taught economics students would say that is bad because it makes more sense to invest in the rich so they can build bigger companies so the poor can get work and earn money... the trickle down effect... the problem is that it is bullshit.

    The richest people with companies pay their workers the bare minimum and skim off enormous amounts of money and value that their workers create on themselves and their rich mates/investors.

    And contrary to Chavez the people before him didn't turn on the money printer when oil prices collapsed and instead implemented somewhat fiscally responsible policies that would at least mitigate the impact of these crashes instead of aggrevating them.

    I know very little about economics but printing money causes inflation and destroys your economy. There are photos of women in Germany with wheelbarrows full of hundred thousands deuchmark notes.... enough to buy a loaf of bread at the time.

    Printing money makes it worthless for every country on the planet except the US.



    Not sure why you are arguing about this, and I am not defending US foreign policy

    As for the severity of the pre- 2017 sanctions, they are overstated. FYI, up until 2017 the US itself was importing ~700 000 barrels of Venezuelan oil per day. The country was already deep in the gutter by that time. Only after the Trump Administration significantly hardened sanctions did this chokehold really emerge

    They were buying 700 000 barrels of cheap oil that probably cost Venezuela more to get it to market than they made profit on the process... when the value of oil is **** all it actually does not make sense to keep selling it because you lose on the deal, but no chance of Venezuela being able to stop sales to the US without serious risk.

    Of course they tried regime change anyway, and of course sending in mercenaries to release prisoners from local prisons and arm them with Army weapons for nearby Army bases... what could they possibly do that was worse than that?

    Saudis tell the US what happens regarding OPEC/oil, in return they use the (petro)dollar

    Nothing points at the opposite.

    They also fund ISIS and Al Quada and the Taleban... when the Soviets were in Afghanistan and also when HATO was too.

    Soviet economy didn't need no breaking from anyone, in fact powerful factions within the US were propping up the Soviet Union through middlemen like Armand Hammer

    One glance at Chinas economy tells me immediately there is nothing fundamentally wrong with communism in terms of economics... the situation the US is currently in is vastly worse... they are in a far worse situation than the Soviets ever got themselves in to, but they couldn't just print money and they were not the standard international currency.

    Note even the EU has decided to diversify away from the US dollar... that is really serious...

    Only when the Soviet Union had become completely obsolete the plug was pulled - with help from very powerful Soviet politicians/businessmen that benefitted greatly from its demise bytheway

    The SU didn't fall, it was a controlled implosion.

    The greedy people with connections and power in the Soviet Union realised they could never become billionaires in a communist system, so they either dissolved it or did nothing to stop its collapse.

    With good management problems could have been solved... well they have been... look at Russia now.... if you eliminate the destruction and theft of the 1990s they would be in a much better position.

    Also I am at a loss how US dominating the Americas and Venezuela's oil dependent economy are connected.

    Can you not read?

    America has only been upset with Maduro and Chavez.... all the previous leaders did as they were told and were not considered problems in the US... it was these previous leaders that created the Venezuelan economy... Maduro and Chavez made changes but not enough time to fix all the oil dependency problems in the time they had in power... the US and pro US government of Venezuela created the mess, and that mess is being made worse with sanctions and embargos and other economic pressure as well as the obvious direct threat of regime change.

    Yea that's why all those US manufacturing industries have been relocated to Latin America

    Slave labour is cheap... most western manufacture goes to second and third world countries to reduce overheads and allow easier ($$) problem solutions to be applied...

    A million dollar lawsuit in Texas vs 10K to get a problem person killed... the economics are pretty damn clear.

    Aside from that this is a silly condition to determine what country is socialist and what country is not.

    The definition of socialist or communist is whatever the editor for whatever that western media outlet decides, so Putin and Chavez and Maduro are all dictators and communist because they say so... and don't contradict them or you are racist.

    Even the DPRK claims it is democratic, and the vanguard concept of 'democratic centralism' is pillar in Leninism

    To be fair it is probably more democratic than the US or most of the west if you are not rich.

    As for Venezuela being socialist or not, I'll let the person in questions speak for themselves.

    The problem is terminology and what you expect from your government. Most countries in the EU expect their government to look after the people with healthcare and education etc etc. In the US and US dominated countries that is considered socialism and a step short of communism... imagine everyone getting free healthcare if they need it or an education... in the American west government can't be trusted on anything and it is big business that will provide all services including essential services like power and water.

    For most Americans socialism is about communism and government doing everything, but for most europeans a government can be changed while companies cannot and no one gets to vote regarding companies... especially international companies that are more interested in profit, so for instance Pfizer does not want to create cures to diseases... there is less profit in curing people than there is with life time treatments and care.

    A government wants sick people cured and back working and paying tax, but a big company wants to treat that person for life because it is more profitable.

    So for once I agree with you Big G, because Chavez/Maduro are straight up dumbasses with zero understanding of economy and the geopolitical realities.

    They managed to get the full support of the majority of their people... the rich and the 1% flipped immediately and supported the US but they are under US sanctions now too so **** them. They are not stupid, but they took risks and in the long term investment from Russia and China and perhaps India means they have a potential way out of poverty that the US dominance has trapped them into for the last century or two.

    And you decided this sitting behind a screen in NZ?

    Find me 10 Chavistas amongst Venezuelans in Colombia and I'll send a cake your way. Protip, they don't exist.

    Of course, so tell me exactly what it is like on the ground there... I am assuming you are in Texas on the ground right near the border.

    The way imperialism works is that you take the richer members of a country, who are always a minority, but generally run most things and own most things because their ancestor white europeans generally stole it from the natives, and you get them on side so they make some money as you rob them of oil and anything else of value. The poor get nothing, but occasionally someone managed to get into power that actually cares about the people and tries to cut ties... putin, Saddam, Gaddafi, Castro... normally their crime is seizing assets from a 1%er that should not have had them in the first place... that is what communism is by the way, but when the US then seizes that countries foreign assets then that is not communism... that is democracy and freedom.

    Never judge a country by what the people running away from it are saying... normally they just want a job so they will likely say what they think you want to hear... that is where Saddams WMDS came from and went, but refugees were adamant that he had them till Iraq was invaded and it was proven they didn't...

    That's a bit dramatic, and in line with the bleeding heart liberal Open Border propaganda

    WTF are you talking about.... I am telling you what is happening because it happens everywhere... in the midst of the Covid epidemic certain business owners were complaining about lost income because so called seasonal workers could not come in to the country and work for them at terrible rates in terrible conditions.... Fishery companies got Russian and Ukrainian fishermen to work the fishing boats because they are cheap and don't know New Zealand law, or don't care. The fruit want fruit pickers to work in terrible conditions for poor pay and they know local workers just wont put up with that shit.

    I am not blaming the illegal workers, or the legal ones... I am blaming the employers that screw their workers... shit like people working in bars and cafes who survive on tips... it is like an extra tax... we don't do that in NZ but I have seen enough US TV and Movies... if they don't want to pay them to serve tables then let the customers order their own food at a table and go up and get their own food so they wont need to pay peanuts for waiting staff.


    Reality is that tens of billions of dollars are spent on these people, and that hustling as an illegal is in many cases more lucrative then wageslaving as a US citizen.

    If that were true then a US citizen should turn up without documents to their next job interview... but smells like BS to me.

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    higurashihougi
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    Venezuela crisis - Page 38 Empty Re: Venezuela crisis

    Post  higurashihougi Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:37 am

    GarryB wrote:
    As for Venezuela being socialist or not, I'll let the person in questions speak for themselves.

    The problem is terminology and what you expect from your government. Most countries in the EU expect their government to look after the people with healthcare and education etc etc. In the US and US dominated countries that is considered socialism and a step short of communism... imagine everyone getting free healthcare if they need it or an education... in the American west government can't be trusted on anything and it is big business that will provide all services including essential services like power and water.

    For most Americans socialism is about communism and government doing everything, but for most europeans a government can be changed while companies cannot and no one gets to vote regarding companies... especially international companies that are more interested in profit, so for instance  Pfizer does not want to create cures to diseases... there is less profit in curing people than there is with life time treatments and care.

    A government wants sick people cured and back working and paying tax, but a big company wants to treat that person for life because it is more profitable.

    Venezuela is not socialism.

    It is a left-wing, progressive, state capitalism, which is in every sense better than the shithole in Venezuela before Chavez, and better than the bloodsucking parasitic monsters who usually claim themselves as civilization or democracy.

    But it is no way socialism. The biggest proof is not about voting system. The biggest proof is that in Venezuela there is still a huge class of former landlords and former wealthy businessman, who form the stronghold of anti-Chavez and pro-US reactionary oppositions.

    The Venezuela rich landlords have been carried out many murders, terrorist attacks, and sabotaging against the Chavistas member and against the commune peasants. Many farmers has been killed by the thugs and assassins hired by the landlords, in many case with the blind eyes of the local government who team up with the landlords. Recently the was a case that the local government take the side of a former landlords and expel the commune farmers for the benefit of the landlords.

    Recently there have been concerns from the Communist Party and other far-left groups, and even some Chavistas grassroot movement that the Venezuela government has taken a right-wing turn and cooperate with the wealthy class at the expense of the working class... well I think we will need someone who are good at Spanish the read and check the information.

    If these concern is true then there is a great threat for Venezuelan revolution... Venezuela not only face the attacks and sabotages from the US and the West, they have the enemies inside them, corrupt and sabotage Venezuela from inside. Of course I hope that it is just that I am over-sensitive.

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    slasher

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    Venezuela crisis - Page 38 Empty Re: Venezuela crisis

    Post  slasher Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:01 pm

    slasher wrote:Politico: U.S. monitoring Iranian warships that may be headed to Venezuela

    Interesting development to keep eyes on.

    Video update:

    https://twitter.com/mhmiranusa/status/1402963640307814404

    Mehdi H.
    @mhmiranusa
    Iranian Navy 77th group including IRINS Makran and IRIS Sahand is in the South Atlantic ocean and is heading to North Atlantic ocean and the Caribbean sea.

    1h
    Replying to
    @mhmiranusa
    Iranian Navy replenishment at sea. Fuel is transferred from IRINS Makran to IRIS Sahand frigate.
    Photos taken from an SH-3D helicopter onboard IRINS Makran.
    Eds
    @EdsGno

    https://twitter.com/mhmiranusa/status/1402963640307814404?s=20
    higurashihougi
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    Venezuela crisis - Page 38 Empty Re: Venezuela crisis

    Post  higurashihougi Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:30 pm

    https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/15224?fbclid=IwAR3GdrhbYGT-XucWFJGpGiR3tVTcBsui1--N2aq6jT7WXrgdbBBVqBmXJjU

    Venezuela’s National Assembly (AN) has approved two bills with the aim of further empowering the communal councils and communes that lie at the heart of the country's project of communal power.

    The first provides a legislative framework for communal cities. While some already exist, uniting communes within a specific city or town, there is currently no law regulating their functions or powers.

    The second seeks to establish a Communal Parliament, whose representatives would be elected from the bodies of communal power and remain accountable to them. Its role would be to “deliberate” on matters relating to communal structures, propose relevant legislation to the AN, and supervise the work of the Ministry of Communes.

    The new bills have drawn criticism from right-wing opposition sectors, including within the AN, who claim the “unconstitutional parallel structures” will spell the end for elected offices such as mayor and governor, and even the AN itself.

    On the other hand, grassroots activist and AN substitute deputy Oliver Rivas told Venezuela Analysis he believes the new legislative initiatives could potentially open — or re-open — public discussion on how the state should be structured.

    He also raised concern that the initiative for building communal cities could be taken away from communes and put in the hands of either the Ministry of Communes or local mayors and governors.

    Amarelis Guzmán, from the Máximo Vizcaya Socialist Commune in Yaracuay state, went further, telling Green Left she views the laws as a deliberate attempt to impose control over the communes.

    “Now they want to take them over. They have been building and creating their own communes, and promoting their own [commune] spokespeople, while pushing aside those who have been a key part of the commune movement since 2008.”

    Moreover, “there is a strong belief that the push for communal cities is an attempt to subsume the communes under the control of local political officials.

    “They want to demonstrate that they have power in the territory they control” she said.

    Guzmán also sees the proposed communal parliament as a move by the governing United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV) to “control everything”.

    Sifontes believes commune activists “have to be vigilant about the Law of the Communal Parliament ... because some want to fit the commune into the bourgeois state’s structures.”

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    nomadski
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    Venezuela crisis - Page 38 Empty Re: Venezuela crisis

    Post  nomadski Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:44 am


    Collectivism and communism are one economic mode. Capitalism is another. There could be many economic forms as yet undefined. If a national or local government decides on adopting an economic policy, then there are two possibilities. Either it functions well or it does not. If it functions well, then there are no problems. But if it fails, then the question arises as to who is to rescue this region from a humanitarian or environmental disaster.

    I believe that those responsible for causing damages to society, should be responsible for paying for the harm they cause. Pay for the environmental damage or social and familial breakdown. Also we must have scientific and objective means to measure the efficacy of an economic mode. What can these be?

    Economists now all measure success in terms of capitalist growth. But capitalist society is in continuous state of failour. The world capitalist economy and society will collapse soon. With environmental and social collapse. Yet it is seen as successful. But the Amazonian tribes living in the Forest, if left alone, will outlast and outlive the rest of the world. One reason the South American Inca populations survived the city life and returned to the Forest. But the city died.
    higurashihougi
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    Venezuela crisis - Page 38 Empty Re: Venezuela crisis

    Post  higurashihougi Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:02 pm

    The same accusation, again, again, again, again, and again.

    https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/15234?fbclid=IwAR3qUJRS5rFk-fQCX8X5tEPVs1IdKZ6XU52NnJeMf7E4ES9p8HvG2Z4_gu8

    Venezuelan Foreign Minister Jorge Arreaza dismissed accusations by former Colombian President Andrés Pastrana that Nicolás Maduro was behind leftist candidate Pedro Castillo’s victory in Peru’s presidential election.

    Regional politicians such as Pastrana and fellow former Colombian President Álvaro Uribe have taken to blaming Venezuela for nearly every social protest on the continent, from Chile to Ecuador, and more recently Colombia. They have not produced evidence to support this claim, instead figures such former Ecuadorean President Lenín Moreno have said that their intelligence services had uncovered plots.

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