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    Venezuela crisis

    Poll

    Will usa be successful in installing it's puppet

    [ 9 ]
    Venezuela crisis - Page 6 Bar_left25%Venezuela crisis - Page 6 Bar_right [25%] 
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    Total Votes: 36
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:03 pm

    France and the EU dont accept Maduro as president of Venezuela and support the oppossition

    https://www.france24.com/en/20190124-venezuela-france-macron-calls-election-maduro-illegitimate-protests-opposition-guaido

    Good move.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:18 pm

    The US Strategy for Regime Change in Venezuela

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/01/venezuela-crisis-latest-updates-190123205835912.html

    views from Russia: http://www.ng.ru/world/2019-01-24/1_7491_venesuela.html?print=Y

    http://www.ng.ru/world/2019-01-24/6_7491_maduro.html?print=Y


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:02 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:06 pm

    Venezuela is another Cuba. Venezuela used to be pro America and bought F-16. The day Venezuela cut diplomatic relation with Israel was the day Venezuela became another Cuba.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:35 pm

    BKP wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Hopefully Russia will steer clear.
    Nope:

    "... we have always supported and will support friendly Venezuela that is our strategic partner." --Sergei Ryabkov, Deputy Foreign Minister...

    Words are cheap




    BKP wrote:Hopefully, the Russians realized that flying the two swans in there might trigger this long-in-the-works CIA/deep state attack, and have prepared effective contingency plans.
    ....

    If they knew that it would trigger this (it didn't) then maybe they should have skipped that little field trip




    higurashihougi wrote:.......
    The problem of Venezuela's economy is not created by Maduro or the Chavismo. Long long before Chavez the Venezuela was already notorious for its policy of oil-dependence and ignoring everything else.....


    Well in that case why wasn't solving this food crisis first order of business for commies once they took over?
    With all that oil money from 100$/barrel era they should have had no problems.

    How do you fu*k up this bad? Again, in tropical climate and access to ocean.
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:57 pm

    ultimatewarrior wrote:Venezuela is another Cuba. Venezuela used to be pro America and bought F-16. The day Venezuela cut diplomatic relation with Israel was the day Venezuela became another Cuba.
    You say Israel put Maduro into power so he ruins Venezuela?
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:09 pm

    Venezuela was ruled for 100 years by right-wing dictators/military juntas and 20 years by Chavez/Maduro. But nobody in the west (and most here in this forum) blames the juntas for the state of Venezuela.

    Chavez concentrated his efforts on things that made the life of ordinary citizens better - housing, health care, education. Venezuela has to import 90% of it´s food. This goes back to the times the oil was discovered and the world bank and the IMF advised the then leadership to use the money from the oil to buy food and other stuff because… there are so many farmers in northern america which produce so much food. Who needs his own food production under this circumstances?

    Don´t forget the western financial crisis in 2008 - 2010 and the oil slump of 2014. The hit Venezuela hard. But also countries like Nigeria. But nobody cares about Nigeria or the suffering of the people there because there are already western oil companies controlling the oil production. In Venezuela the largets contracts in the last decades went to chinese and russian companies.

    The hypocrisy of all this is realy amazing.
    The unpopular president of France who is using tens of thousands of police to put down demonstrations against his rule is no claiming the president of another country is illegitimate. Embarassed
    The contested president of Amiland which has no legitimacy to be president, according to the "opposition" of his country is doing the same. Mad
    The unelected "leaders" of the EU demand that the will of the people of Venezuela is respected while they disrespect the will of the people of EU countries. Shocked
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:30 pm

    If they knew that it would trigger this (it didn't) then maybe they should have skipped that little field trip

    Tu-160s ops there didn't trigger the latest crisis; there's no permanent Russian base like in Syria.
    Macron should clean up his own house instead of parroting Trump. If he is so worried about those poor Venezuelans' well being, offer them the French Guiana for free or at least give it independence.
    For the US, Maduro's regime must be crushed to nip wider regional independence from them in the bud.
    But it's only a matter of time before the newly installed "Shah" there will be overthrown, like what happened in Iran in 1979:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution
    https://www.britannica.com/event/Iranian-Revolution-of-1978-1979
    BKP
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    Post  BKP Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:04 pm

    PapaDragon wrote: Words are cheap

    We'll see if the cliche holds true in this case.

    PapaDragon wrote:If they knew that it would trigger this (it didn't) then maybe they should have skipped that little field trip

    As if you actually know

    PapaDragon wrote:How do you fu*k up this bad? Again, in tropical climate and access to ocean.  

    It has a whole fu*k of a lot to do with being under relentless attack by the global hegemon for two decades: economic strangulation, media propaganda, infiltration, scheming with traitors, subversion, sabotage. That oh-so-familiar M.O.


    Useful discussion for seeing where everyone really stands, in the grand scheme of things.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:29 pm

    The US has taken over L. America from the Spanish, British & Portuguese Empires; the French & British holding small colonies/islands don't change the above fact.
    Across the S. Atlantic, China is at home in Africa & the US tries to prevent the same thing in S. America.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:37 am

    BKP wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:If they knew that it would trigger this (it didn't) then maybe they should have skipped that little field trip

    As if you actually know...


    So this current mess would be Russia's fault?
    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:21 am

    Venezuela is a small testbed for what they try to do in Belarus and Russia. If it works, they announce Lukasheka regime and Putin regime illegitimate and back Navalny presidency. They can pay billions to buy off big chunks of Belarus military and Russia military to oppose Lukashenka and  Putin and ship weapons to them via Ukraine and Georgia and Poland and the Baltics and Hungary. Don't kid yourself. This is their strategy.

    What Russia should do immediately is deploy military to Venezuela and keep things under control. If civil war breaks out, the border parts of Venezuela next to Brazil and Colombia would be the first to be taken by Guaido government. Arms would flood in through Brazil and Colombia. Even if Russia acts by then, it'll be too late, and the best result is another frozen conflict. Hundreds of frozen conflicts around the world would stretch Russia military thin because any of them could suddenly become unfrozen.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:47 am

    Much better to send there mercenaries &/ more "advisers" but regular troops to Nicaragua & Cuba to shore them up against any provoca/interventions.
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:54 am

    PapaDragon wrote:How do you fu*k up this bad? Again, in tropical climate and access to ocean.

    Because their predecessors already f**k up the economy by letting agriculture rotten to the level beyond imagination and the Chavismo has to solve the huge mess accumulate in decades.

    It is unfair to put all the blame on Maduro et al. and ignore the origin of the problem.

    And at least the profit from selling oil is used for housing, healthcare, electricity, education, rather than pouring into the pocket of imperialists at somewhere else.

    There are huge parades of Maduro-supporters, and these images can never be seen on Western newspapers.

    PapaDragon wrote:Well in that case why wasn't solving this food crisis first order of business for commies once they took over?
    With all that oil money from 100$/barrel era they should have had no problems.

    Actually they tried to solve the problem many times but there are many obstacles. For example in agriculture, the main issue is lack of manpower and high-trained manpower, because many poor farmers migrate to the big cities and many women tend to do houseworks rather than working in the field.

    That's why Vietnamese agronomists are sent there. According to what I heard, although little as it may be, things is getting better.

    Moreover, if the world traded mainly on rub and yuan instead of dollar then the food crisis wouldn't happen.

    Brazil can't even pay the electric fee to Vene due to sanction. You know what I mean ?

    The pre-Chavismo governments couldn't even feed their own population. But at that time nobody block their money and goods transfer.

    And there are illegal food transit from Venezuela to Colombia... Vene government sell food with low prices to the people and people secretly sell food at higher price to Colombia.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:06 am

    Colombia lost Panama to the US; now she should kick the American advisers & the CIA/DEA out & join Venezuela + Ecuador. Keeping them all divided only helps the US control region in perpetuity.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:09 am

    Useful discussion for seeing where everyone really stands, in the grand scheme of things.

    It is amazing how much so many here suddenly believe the western media is telling the truth regarding the situation in venezuela after telling all those lies and half truths about Russia and China all these years...

    How do you fu*k up this bad? Again, in tropical climate and access to ocean.

    Imagine Saudi Arabia but a Saudi Arabia that the west hates and puts under serious sanctions... all of a sudden there is no money... well there is... but the London banks are withholding it from the Saudi Leadership because mother in britain thinks they can't be trusted to spend it in the interests of the Saudi people... they might buy food or build hospitals and houses instead of invest in US debt or buy F-35s...

    Why is the economy of Saudi Arabia so focused on oil?

    If they knew that it would trigger this (it didn't) then maybe they should have skipped that little field trip

    Of course... it was Russias fault...

    Venezuela is not allow friends... and Russia cannot have a sphere of influence... because Americas sphere is everywhere...

    France and the EU dont accept Maduro as president of Venezuela and support the oppossition

    The EU is just a lap dog of the US... it is why the EU is irrelevant... they don't think for themselves... they just bark to impress the master... in this case Trump.

    It's not that I'm a proponent of US regime change, it's just that I won't shed a tear for any of these people - that took one of South America's wealthiest countries and drove it into the ground.
    They have it coming.

    Really?

    They dropped off the Kool Aide addiction and the entire west has turned on them, so fuck them... the story of Venezuela sounds a lot like the story for a lot of countries the west does not count as the first world... sanctions, bullying, is Russia enjoying that because I know you must enjoy this treatment by the fair and democratic and peace loving western media and political structure.

    Perhaps Russia has it coming too... and Serbia... and China.... America has never been happy about the governments in those countries either...

    Funny all the whining about communism... caring about the Venezuelan people and trying to help the poorest with government help... that is fucking devil worship... if that gets out people in the west might realise all the resources of a country should be shared out rather than given to the few already wealthy way beyond their own needs... the greedy censored .

    Good to see who is who though... have to say a good indicator was the side Aristide falls upon because he believes the western media is always right and doesn't really give a shit about anyone, but FP.... perhaps you have given up caring about other people... of course when the west turns again to attack Russia there will be one more voice in the UN telling Russia why it is a naughty country and needs to do as America tells it and ignore international law...

    Is it frightening that Ultimate Warrior is starting to make sense...
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:33 am

    Russia, China & NK won't be bullied-they've got nukes & Hypersonic Ms & don't care if Mr. Bolton looses any sleep over it!
    The West sheds crocodile tears about poor oppressed businessmen & starving people only where a lot of valuable real estate & natural resources r located- look at how they treated Puerto Ricans, Native Hawaiians, Chamorros, Chagossians, & most recently Yemenis who r being bombed by wealthy Saudis, Kuwaitis & the UAE!  
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamorro_people
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagossians

    "It's the economy, stupid!"
    https://www.mk.ru/politics/2019/01/24/kto-srezhissiroval-gosperevorot-v-venesuele-strana-na-grani-krovoprolitnoy-voyny.html


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:33 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    Airman
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    Post  Airman Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:20 am

    If you want to have a sustainable economy, try to make reforms like China or Vietnam did. The Soviet-type economy system is no longer working. Even after the collapse of the Soviet Union, China and Vietnam managed to survive. These two countries managed to reform their own economies and switched to market-based mixed economy. If I were Hugo Chavez or Fidel Castro, I would do economic reforms like China or Vietnam did. Unfortunately it's too late for Venezuela.

    The inflation rate is around 1.3 million. Venezuelan Bolivar is the most worthless currency in the world. Even the oil industry is dead due to hyperinflation. How can you fight the US with these economic indicators? You can't just keep people loyal to you by selling cheap gas.
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    Post  ATLASCUB Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:49 am

    Venezuela is a mixed market economy. I don't know where people get the idea (I do know - western propaganda regurgitated a billion times making a lie a "truth") that the Venezuelan economy is socialist or centrally planed like the Soviet Union. Please get informed - at least around these parts.

    Cuba is the country that has a centrally planed economy ala the Soviet Union but it's already in that very process of going Vietnam's - China route. Slowly like a turtle, but better than a bunny that gets eaten alive by a wolf before completing the track. Cuba might not be rich but it sure as hell is stable.

    Using proceeds from oil revenues to fund public welfare for the super poor, healthcare/housing etc and creating a safety net is not a foreign practice out of the ordinary or flawed.

    The problem with Venezuela politically is simple - a two party system getting exploited w/ external sources adding, cheering and scheming chaos cause Ven's example is a big fat threat.


    Last edited by ATLASCUB on Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  ATLASCUB Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:53 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:

    views from Russia: http://www.ng.ru/world/2019-01-24/1_7491_venesuela.html?print=Y


    Might want to rethink that site. Using a Carnegie foundation economist to base almost all of the article... lol1  some real gold nuggets from that fool. Too many to count.

    I'll just leave the biggest gold nugget here:

    But today in Venezuela they are in fact not present in this sense. These are the same conditional "cookies". Here, in addition to "cookies", no one bothers anyone. We can also hand out cookies. These processes are now going on their own. Americans do not have many interests in Venezuela. Oil they now produce in large quantities. Venezuela as a market is small. " According to the economist, Americans will not spend a lot of time and effort on Venezuela. “The Chinese will spend a lot of time and effort on it,” Movchan is sure.

    Russia has more useful idiots than I thought. How Carnegie is allowed to operate in Russia beats me.

    https://carnegieendowment.org/experts/1057
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    Teshub

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    Post  Teshub Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:17 pm

    GarryB wrote:It is amazing how much so many here suddenly believe the western media is telling the truth regarding the situation in venezuela after telling all those lies and half truths about Russia and China all these years...
    Indeed. Its been quite depressing for me to see even the alternative media who try to report the truth about Syria or Ukraine, simply adopt the main stream line on Venezuela.

    It strikes me as astounding that people can watch interminable TV interviews of healthy, plump even, Venezuelan protesters wailing about food shortages and poverty, whilst they stand there in bright coloured decent clothes, shopping bags in hand, and hundreds of peaceful citizens pass by in the background. Western viewers appear to lack even the most basic critical cognition.

    The last time I travelled in the hinterlands of South America some twenty years ago, I saw real poverty. Lean faces, beggars, ratty clothing and was followed by hordes of painfully thin kids for a kilometre in the hope I might give them a single plantain. Venezuela for all its woes in 2019 is a damn paradise in comparison. Don't even get me started what I've seen in other parts of the world far worse off.
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    Post  ATLASCUB Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:13 pm

    I gotta say out all of this, the country that's providing the biggest drama fun-factor is Turkey. How mad is the Washington establishment that Erdogan is giving them the middle finger straight in the face....  “My brother Maduro! Stand tall, we stand by you!” ...

    The articles from the propaganda outfits about this pronouncement keep on coming nonstop.... lol1 lol1 sweet delicious tears.... angry

    If there was ever any doubt who carried the coup behind the scenes in Turkey... Laughing  Laughing
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:35 pm


    So anyone care to speculate where is China in all this? Since this is apparently some kind of socialist struggle against capitalist imperialism I'd expect them to get on it. Laughing

    Besides, China is way closer to Venezuela than Russia is and they also have that shiny new navy complete with those precious aircraft carriers.

    Russia is covering Syria so time for chincoms to finally start pulling their weight. Why should Russia be only one stuck with heavy lifting?
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    Post  ATLASCUB Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:39 pm

    No one is asking Russia to be the only ones pulling their weight. China should too - buying up the oil the U.S might decide to stop buying is the least they can do. They got a lot invested in Venezuela. They would be fools to take the word of traitors for business as usual if a coup is pulled off. One of the many reasons the coup is on is to curtail China and Russia's influence in the region. Look at Brazil... not to mention Libya... Take the word of traitors - please..... lol1

    They could always get much more involved and send a signal to the clowns of the Latin American right that are scared shitless of the U.S that they've also got a skin in the game. After all China has already surpassed the U.S in terms of investments in the region. Money talks.

    But this is a Russia focused forum after all - so Russia is the focus.

    Russia is woefully unprepared militarily to do anything in South America. Blue-water navy? What blue-water Navy? If things escalate the only thing it can (and should do) is suit up some mercs w/ spooks, and pay up for some undercover action - at least help offset the cost burden of Venezuelan/Cuban operations in land off-books.. The borders around Colombia will be a melting pot of crap.


    Last edited by ATLASCUB on Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:49 pm

    Teshub wrote:It strikes me as astounding that people can watch interminable TV interviews of healthy, plump even, Venezuelan protesters wailing about food shortages and poverty, whilst they stand there in bright coloured decent clothes, shopping bags in hand, and hundreds of peaceful citizens pass by in the background. Western viewers appear to lack even the most basic critical cognition.

    And the images that Western media outlets never dare to show are the grandiose parades of Chavismo-supporters, with red flags, red clothes, images of Chavez and Maduro.
    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:13 pm

    Lack of food and medicines is one problem. Another is astronomically high, near warzone-level crime that makes life almost unbearable. Why do you think are foreigners advised to not go to Venezuela unless absolutely necessary and if they go, to never show a phone in public and never go alone in an empty street?

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