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Casual morning, having tea as usual... 
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66 posters
2015 Moscow Victory Day Parade:
alexZam- Posts : 343
Points : 399
Join date : 2015-04-23
Location : SoCal
Cpt Caz- Posts : 86
Points : 95
Join date : 2013-09-08
KoTeMoRe- Posts : 4212
Points : 4227
Join date : 2015-04-21
Location : Krankhaus Central.
Cpt Caz wrote:
Champions use heavy uber complicated redesign-prone set of metal. Don't you dare say I'm wrong, ask the US.
On side note, the rifle looks Uber.
TheGeorgian- Posts : 217
Points : 190
Join date : 2014-06-22
Those are AN-94 Abakans, ammo is slightly angled to the right because of different feed mechanism. Relatively "new" rifle, has been around since the late 90s interesting concept, isn't produced anymore though.
Werewolf- Posts : 5921
Points : 6110
Join date : 2012-10-24
TheGeorgian wrote:Those are AN-94 Abakans, ammo is slightly angled to the right because of different feed mechanism. Relatively "new" rifle, has been around since the late 90s interesting concept, isn't produced anymore though.
Mainly because they are overengineered and have a very complex interior life, but this glorious doublet salvo two nicely venomous 5.45x39mm rounds fired with 1800 RPM and the shooter won't feel the recoil of the first round untill the 2nd round is already on its way.
I mean were are trained to shoot doublets because that is most effecient way to fire aimly at a target and this slavo without recoil affecting the grouping of those rounds would be the real shit on any rifle. I do envy those guys.
KoTeMoRe- Posts : 4212
Points : 4227
Join date : 2015-04-21
Location : Krankhaus Central.
Werewolf wrote:TheGeorgian wrote:Those are AN-94 Abakans, ammo is slightly angled to the right because of different feed mechanism. Relatively "new" rifle, has been around since the late 90s interesting concept, isn't produced anymore though.
Mainly because they are overengineered and have a very complex interior life, but this glorious doublet salvo two nicely venomous 5.45x39mm rounds fired with 1800 RPM and the shooter won't feel the recoil of the first round untill the 2nd round is already on its way.
I mean were are trained to shoot doublets because that is most effecient way to fire aimly at a target and this slavo without recoil affecting the grouping of those rounds would be the real shit on any rifle. I do envy those guys.
Nothing like a well aimed SVD shot won't cure. The whole double tap mythology has been disproved time after time in UBER Leet Nato combat cams with Thor-like hollywood-smile Spartans pelting single flesh and bone target with 15+ shots per trooper. But ehehe Time to Operate and all that toss.
The Abakan was a very interesting design that hit the bottleneck of Russian armed forces of the 90's. In the same manner the A-545 just hit the ceiling of Izhmash Lobbyin' "za Rodina" and will probably be like the AN albeit without all the issues the AN faced.
Larry Vickers shot the rifle and it jammed on him./
Check Larry Vickers-AN 94 and Larry Vickers AEK-971 on youtubeski
Gun is good, when it works.
I confess I'm partial to the AEK and Larry Vickers too obviously.
Werewolf- Posts : 5921
Points : 6110
Join date : 2012-10-24
KoTeMoRe wrote:Werewolf wrote:TheGeorgian wrote:Those are AN-94 Abakans, ammo is slightly angled to the right because of different feed mechanism. Relatively "new" rifle, has been around since the late 90s interesting concept, isn't produced anymore though.
Mainly because they are overengineered and have a very complex interior life, but this glorious doublet salvo two nicely venomous 5.45x39mm rounds fired with 1800 RPM and the shooter won't feel the recoil of the first round untill the 2nd round is already on its way.
I mean were are trained to shoot doublets because that is most effecient way to fire aimly at a target and this slavo without recoil affecting the grouping of those rounds would be the real shit on any rifle. I do envy those guys.
Nothing like a well aimed SVD shot won't cure. The whole double tap mythology has been disproved time after time in UBER Leet Nato combat cams with Thor-like hollywood-smile Spartans pelting single flesh and bone target with 15+ shots per trooper. But ehehe Time to Operate and all that toss.
The Abakan was a very interesting design that hit the bottleneck of Russian armed forces of the 90's. In the same manner the A-545 just hit the ceiling of Izhmash Lobbyin' "za Rodina" and will probably be like the AN albeit without all the issues the AN faced.
Larry Vickers shot the rifle and it jammed on him./
Check Larry Vickers-AN 94 and Larry Vickers AEK-971 on youtubeski
Gun is good, when it works.
I confess I'm partial to the AEK and Larry Vickers too obviously.
I am not here to discuss the design of the AN.94, i said and i still stick to it, when you are not in the situation of Spray and praying which is 95% of the entire firefights than you have the remaining 5% of actually aiming and trying to hit something and for that situations from personal experience (simulation with ACTUS sim and maneuver ranges with moving targets)doublet shooting is among the best methods to hit your target without wasting your ammunition. In a firefight nobody is going to drop you ammunition from a plane, you have to maintain ammunition management especially since several fire fights can last for hours.
i am personally in favor of AEK aswell.
Last edited by Werewolf on Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
TheGeorgian- Posts : 217
Points : 190
Join date : 2014-06-22
Werewolf wrote:TheGeorgian wrote:Those are AN-94 Abakans, ammo is slightly angled to the right because of different feed mechanism. Relatively "new" rifle, has been around since the late 90s interesting concept, isn't produced anymore though.
Mainly because they are overengineered and have a very complex interior life, but this glorious doublet salvo two nicely venomous 5.45x39mm rounds fired with 1800 RPM and the shooter won't feel the recoil of the first round untill the 2nd round is already on its way.
I mean were are trained to shoot doublets because that is most effecient way to fire aimly at a target and this slavo without recoil affecting the grouping of those rounds would be the real shit on any rifle. I do envy those guys.
I like the idea of doublet and triplet hyper burst and if I recall correctly the AN-94 is the only assault rifle containing the 2-round hyper burst mode and also the only one to be produced in large numbers. The spring and pull mechanisms are unique. Though I could be wrong but I can see how there would be issues with the pulley and steel cable in rural areas or with mud. Such a complex rifle would require regular maintenance during deployment.
Regular- Posts : 3878
Points : 3852
Join date : 2013-03-10
Location : Ukrolovestan
I'm pretty sure those rifles will be put back into weapon lockers for good after this parade is over.
But shit, Russians should pull the finger out when it comes to uniforms. This is fricking pathetic. One looks different from the other, looks cheap, camo sucks, nothing like awesome multilayer ratnik uniforms we seen in Crimea.
But shit, Russians should pull the finger out when it comes to uniforms. This is fricking pathetic. One looks different from the other, looks cheap, camo sucks, nothing like awesome multilayer ratnik uniforms we seen in Crimea.
KoTeMoRe- Posts : 4212
Points : 4227
Join date : 2015-04-21
Location : Krankhaus Central.
Hyde....? HuhuehueRegular wrote:I'm pretty sure those rifles will be put back into weapon lockers for good after this parade is over.
But shit, Russians should pull the finger out when it comes to uniforms. This is fricking pathetic. One looks different from the other, looks cheap, camo sucks, nothing like awesome multilayer ratnik uniforms we seen in Crimea.
cracker- Posts : 232
Points : 273
Join date : 2014-09-04
wow!! being able to equip a whole "legion" of parade troops with AN-94 proves that this weapon is still going strong in armories and being used throughout the country... (by the way it was used by russian forces in crimea in march 2014, video proved it, so, it's more used than we think)
I love it, i'd love to see a modernised version with rails, etc...
I love it, i'd love to see a modernised version with rails, etc...
KoTeMoRe- Posts : 4212
Points : 4227
Join date : 2015-04-21
Location : Krankhaus Central.
Werewolf wrote:KoTeMoRe wrote:Werewolf wrote:TheGeorgian wrote:Those are AN-94 Abakans, ammo is slightly angled to the right because of different feed mechanism. Relatively "new" rifle, has been around since the late 90s interesting concept, isn't produced anymore though.
Mainly because they are overengineered and have a very complex interior life, but this glorious doublet salvo two nicely venomous 5.45x39mm rounds fired with 1800 RPM and the shooter won't feel the recoil of the first round untill the 2nd round is already on its way.
I mean were are trained to shoot doublets because that is most effecient way to fire aimly at a target and this slavo without recoil affecting the grouping of those rounds would be the real shit on any rifle. I do envy those guys.
Nothing like a well aimed SVD shot won't cure. The whole double tap mythology has been disproved time after time in UBER Leet Nato combat cams with Thor-like hollywood-smile Spartans pelting single flesh and bone target with 15+ shots per trooper. But ehehe Time to Operate and all that toss.
The Abakan was a very interesting design that hit the bottleneck of Russian armed forces of the 90's. In the same manner the A-545 just hit the ceiling of Izhmash Lobbyin' "za Rodina" and will probably be like the AN albeit without all the issues the AN faced.
Larry Vickers shot the rifle and it jammed on him./
Check Larry Vickers-AN 94 and Larry Vickers AEK-971 on youtubeski
Gun is good, when it works.
I confess I'm partial to the AEK and Larry Vickers too obviously.
I am not here to discuss the design of the AN.94, i said and i still stick to it, when you are not in the situation of Spray and praying which is 95% of the entire firefights than you have the remaining 5% of actually aiming and trying to hit something and for that situations from personal experience (simulation with ACTUS sim and maneuver ranges with moving targets)doublet shooting is among the best methods to hit your target without wasting your ammunition. In a firefight nobody is going to drop you ammunition from a plane, you have to maintain ammunition management especially since several fire fights can last for hours.
i am personally in favor of AEK aswell.
While I'm not doubting you a single moment, I'm just stating that although the double tap looks cool, in reality the basic combat MO applies everytime. For OPFOR clunker to take a dirt nap you need to hit center mass until the party is out of him.
So you see harder than steel SEALS litterally pump targets full of lead at the slightest occasion. It's not like I just double tapped the guy, I'm sure he's gone, no its pew pew pew until your guns goes click or/and target goes into three taps i'm out mode. That can be pretty long.
Rule N°XX Anything worth shooting, is worth shooting twice (or a gazillion). Ammo is cheap. Plus I'm sure that being a conservative shooter has saved lives in real conditions. There's always the dead man's gun and ammo to take.
So while firefight doctrine is fine with me, and the AN is a damn fine idea as it pumps MORE lead to your target, the reality catches (and catched) with it pretty fast.
George1- Posts : 18400
Points : 18897
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
Muscovites to See Weapons, Military Equipment Before May 9 Victory Parade
TheGeorgian- Posts : 217
Points : 190
Join date : 2014-06-22
George1 wrote:Muscovites to See Weapons, Military Equipment Before May 9 Victory Parade
Yo, take some photos for us plse if someone lives in Moscow !
GarryB- Posts : 39672
Points : 40168
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
On side note, the rifle looks Uber.
I would have it in my collection but I think I would shoot it a couple of times and then just have it in my collection as a show piece.
I suspect it would be an interesting rifle to have but not very practical or user friendly to maintain.
I mean were are trained to shoot doublets because that is most effecient way to fire aimly at a target and this slavo without recoil affecting the grouping of those rounds would be the real shit on any rifle. I do envy those guys.
the theory is that two shots increase the chance of at least one hit and that two hits increase the lethality of the wounds... two wound channels... double the bleeding area... more chance of shock induced death.. less chance for the bad guy to shoot back.
The whole double tap mythology has been disproved time after time in UBER Leet Nato combat cams with Thor-like hollywood-smile Spartans pelting single flesh and bone target with 15+ shots per trooper. But ehehe Time to Operate and all that toss.
The fact that in real combat many soldiers... even super trained NATO soldiers like to fire extended bursts rather than single shots just further reinforces the idea of a double tap... if two hits is good then 30 hits are better...
Larry Vickers shot the rifle and it jammed on him./
Russian disinformation... they gave him a special Abakan designed to jam via remote control. The west will now underestimate the value of the AN-94 and will be dismissive of units armed with said weapon... which will now go on to annihilate NATO troops in their millions in the Ukraine...
Gun is good, when it works.
Could say the same about any gun... including the Chauchat... when they work they are good.
How often do they work is the real question.
With the Abakan if it is tricky to service and a mistake in putting it back together can lead to problems of reliability then it can come down to training... insufficient training could lead to the weapon being considered unreliable...
I am not here to discuss the design of the AN.94, i said and i still stick to it, when you are not in the situation of Spray and praying which is 95% of the entire firefights than you have the remaining 5% of actually aiming and trying to hit something and for that situations from personal experience (simulation with ACTUS sim and maneuver ranges with moving targets)doublet shooting is among the best methods to hit your target without wasting your ammunition. In a firefight nobody is going to drop you ammunition from a plane, you have to maintain ammunition management especially since several fire fights can last for hours.
Very valid point.. the purpose of the two shot function of the AN-94 is to increase kill probability and increase hit probability without raising ammo expenditure to an unacceptable level.
An aimed shot at a moving camouflaged target while potentially tired and hungry and indeed scared doesn't have an enormous chance of a hit... firing a second shot that will land within a 30cm radius or less of the first shot increases hit probability and also lethality of both rounds hit without emptying the mag in one trigger pull.
fairly sound logic.
The low recoil of the AK12 plus the 3 round burst function from a supported firing position is slightly more wasteful but also likely improves kill and hit probability to a useful level.
One looks different from the other, looks cheap, camo sucks, nothing like awesome multilayer ratnik uniforms we seen in Crimea.p
Over the next 3-4 years they will be deploying Ratnik... I don't think fixing the old uniforms in use now is or should be a high priority.
So you see harder than steel SEALS litterally pump targets full of lead at the slightest occasion. It's not like I just double tapped the guy, I'm sure he's gone, no its pew pew pew until your guns goes click or/and target goes into three taps i'm out mode. That can be pretty long.
You are missing the difference... with an M4 a long burst at the target means sight picture aim... then when you pull the trigger the gun will be rocking and rolling all over the place... so the first round will be heading towards the target and the rest will be scattered all over the area all around the target... not a bad thing... but not as efficient as aiming with the AN at the target and shooting two rounds with the second leaving the barrel before the recoil starts shifting your aim point... release the trigger re aim at the target and then fire again... two more rounds going towards the target rather than just its general vicinity.
If you have no idea where the enemy is then you can always flick it to full auto and spray like an M4, but it is the... I can see the target and want to keep hitting him 2 shot mode that is at issue here and I think it would be useful.
As long as everyone realises that we are not talking about two bullets making one hole in the target... that would not increase lethality or hit probability... you would either hit the target with both rounds or miss the target with both rounds which does not increase hit or kill probability.... but would be impressive.
macedonian- Posts : 1067
Points : 1092
Join date : 2013-04-29
Location : Skopje, Macedonia - Скопје, Македонија
TheGeorgian wrote:George1 wrote:Muscovites to See Weapons, Military Equipment Before May 9 Victory Parade
Yo, take some photos for us plse if someone lives in Moscow !
Never thought of it really, but do we have a Москвич on this board?
I know FP is from Saint Pete, but don't know of anyone from Moscow.
& what TheGeorgian said: would be great if someone takes a few pics to post here.
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
Points : 8273
Join date : 2013-12-05
Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan
macedonian wrote:TheGeorgian wrote:George1 wrote:Muscovites to See Weapons, Military Equipment Before May 9 Victory Parade
Yo, take some photos for us plse if someone lives in Moscow !
Never thought of it really, but do we have a Москвич on this board?
I know FP is from Saint Pete, but don't know of anyone from Moscow.
& what TheGeorgian said: would be great if someone takes a few pics to post here.
FP, as in flammingpython? I didn't know he was from St. Petersburg, Florida...
KoTeMoRe- Posts : 4212
Points : 4227
Join date : 2015-04-21
Location : Krankhaus Central.
GarryB wrote:On side note, the rifle looks Uber.
I would have it in my collection but I think I would shoot it a couple of times and then just have it in my collection as a show piece.
I suspect it would be an interesting rifle to have but not very practical or user friendly to maintain.
I mean were are trained to shoot doublets because that is most effecient way to fire aimly at a target and this slavo without recoil affecting the grouping of those rounds would be the real shit on any rifle. I do envy those guys.
the theory is that two shots increase the chance of at least one hit and that two hits increase the lethality of the wounds... two wound channels... double the bleeding area... more chance of shock induced death.. less chance for the bad guy to shoot back.
The whole double tap mythology has been disproved time after time in UBER Leet Nato combat cams with Thor-like hollywood-smile Spartans pelting single flesh and bone target with 15+ shots per trooper. But ehehe Time to Operate and all that toss.
The fact that in real combat many soldiers... even super trained NATO soldiers like to fire extended bursts rather than single shots just further reinforces the idea of a double tap... if two hits is good then 30 hits are better...
Larry Vickers shot the rifle and it jammed on him./
Russian disinformation... they gave him a special Abakan designed to jam via remote control. The west will now underestimate the value of the AN-94 and will be dismissive of units armed with said weapon... which will now go on to annihilate NATO troops in their millions in the Ukraine...
Gun is good, when it works.
Could say the same about any gun... including the Chauchat... when they work they are good.
How often do they work is the real question.
With the Abakan if it is tricky to service and a mistake in putting it back together can lead to problems of reliability then it can come down to training... insufficient training could lead to the weapon being considered unreliable...
I am not here to discuss the design of the AN.94, i said and i still stick to it, when you are not in the situation of Spray and praying which is 95% of the entire firefights than you have the remaining 5% of actually aiming and trying to hit something and for that situations from personal experience (simulation with ACTUS sim and maneuver ranges with moving targets)doublet shooting is among the best methods to hit your target without wasting your ammunition. In a firefight nobody is going to drop you ammunition from a plane, you have to maintain ammunition management especially since several fire fights can last for hours.
Very valid point.. the purpose of the two shot function of the AN-94 is to increase kill probability and increase hit probability without raising ammo expenditure to an unacceptable level.
An aimed shot at a moving camouflaged target while potentially tired and hungry and indeed scared doesn't have an enormous chance of a hit... firing a second shot that will land within a 30cm radius or less of the first shot increases hit probability and also lethality of both rounds hit without emptying the mag in one trigger pull.
fairly sound logic.
The low recoil of the AK12 plus the 3 round burst function from a supported firing position is slightly more wasteful but also likely improves kill and hit probability to a useful level.
One looks different from the other, looks cheap, camo sucks, nothing like awesome multilayer ratnik uniforms we seen in Crimea.p
Over the next 3-4 years they will be deploying Ratnik... I don't think fixing the old uniforms in use now is or should be a high priority.
So you see harder than steel SEALS litterally pump targets full of lead at the slightest occasion. It's not like I just double tapped the guy, I'm sure he's gone, no its pew pew pew until your guns goes click or/and target goes into three taps i'm out mode. That can be pretty long.
You are missing the difference... with an M4 a long burst at the target means sight picture aim... then when you pull the trigger the gun will be rocking and rolling all over the place... so the first round will be heading towards the target and the rest will be scattered all over the area all around the target... not a bad thing... but not as efficient as aiming with the AN at the target and shooting two rounds with the second leaving the barrel before the recoil starts shifting your aim point... release the trigger re aim at the target and then fire again... two more rounds going towards the target rather than just its general vicinity.
If you have no idea where the enemy is then you can always flick it to full auto and spray like an M4, but it is the... I can see the target and want to keep hitting him 2 shot mode that is at issue here and I think it would be useful.
As long as everyone realises that we are not talking about two bullets making one hole in the target... that would not increase lethality or hit probability... you would either hit the target with both rounds or miss the target with both rounds which does not increase hit or kill probability.... but would be impressive.
You misunderstood me? I'm talking about single shots sent downrange onto the target. There is a very good reason why the US military first thought of the three round burst and then simply got rid of it because it offered nothing over the Semi/Auto selector and good awareness of the man at arms.
And as I said, the AN is a great idea that simply lacked execution and a military that would bet is pants on it. Similarly the A-545 is the better rifle vs the upcoming AK-12 simply not worth the retooling for the benefit (and lobying) of that small difference.
On the same point, the twice the lead with minimum shift is good, but the execution of the rifle is rather "complicated". The rifles were extensively "conscriptized" and they were found problematic. Everything was to be changed or taught to the exact contrary. The whole blindfolded reassembly was gone, KISS was gone and that for the benefit of laser like accuracy and tandem lead poisoning on random durka-durka idiot somewhere in Ingush rear country.
So the specialized nature of the gun made it a niche product that will be more and more superfluous with the AEK/AK103-4 modernization.
And the AN does provide the closest thing to the two girls one cup, brain mush edition on its current form. The rifle is a very good idea and I would like it to be refined and fielded. Because the recoil is out of this world. And the looks are wicked.
alexZam- Posts : 343
Points : 399
Join date : 2015-04-23
Location : SoCal
Famous Alabino base. International "guests" slowly, but surely flooding in.
flamming_python- Posts : 9284
Points : 9346
Join date : 2012-01-30
Middle is the Mongolian army?
alexZam- Posts : 343
Points : 399
Join date : 2015-04-23
Location : SoCal
Not too sure, but most likely. Oh, well.. judging by their camo - Mongolians.flamming_python wrote:Middle is the Mongolian army?
Cyberspec- Posts : 2904
Points : 3057
Join date : 2011-08-08
Location : Terra Australis
Pretty sure they're Mongolians...
Indians (so the initial report was correct)
Mongolians
Chinese
Indians (so the initial report was correct)
Mongolians
Chinese
TR1- Posts : 5435
Points : 5433
Join date : 2011-12-06
macedonian wrote:TheGeorgian wrote:George1 wrote:Muscovites to See Weapons, Military Equipment Before May 9 Victory Parade
Yo, take some photos for us plse if someone lives in Moscow !
Never thought of it really, but do we have a Москвич on this board?
I know FP is from Saint Pete, but don't know of anyone from Moscow.
& what TheGeorgian said: would be great if someone takes a few pics to post here.
Huh. Biggest city in the country bay far, and only I am from Moscow on this forum?
Damn.
alexZam- Posts : 343
Points : 399
Join date : 2015-04-23
Location : SoCal
TR1 wrote:macedonian wrote:TheGeorgian wrote:George1 wrote:Muscovites to See Weapons, Military Equipment Before May 9 Victory Parade
Yo, take some photos for us plse if someone lives in Moscow !
Never thought of it really, but do we have a Москвич on this board?
I know FP is from Saint Pete, but don't know of anyone from Moscow.
& what TheGeorgian said: would be great if someone takes a few pics to post here.
Huh. Biggest city in the country bay far, and only I am from Moscow on this forum?
Damn.
I was born in Moscow. However my parents moved when I was 4 y.o. But I visit Moscow 1-3 times a year. Sometimes with wife+kids. I guess we will see some more Armata/Kurganets/Boomerang, wrapped in tarp, certainly. Seems they as usual moved all gear to Hodynka. One of my fav area in Moscow, close to Strogino, Serenryanij Bor and Tushino. Last time I was in that area that Mall next to Hodynka ex-airfield and that new huge Spartak stadium were not complete yet. I presume they finally finished it.
So i guess, even mall visitors should see those military gear over the fence now.
calripson- Posts : 753
Points : 808
Join date : 2013-10-26
Looks like China brought their basketball team.
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