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    IRAN: Latest and Breaking News

    crod
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    Post  crod Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:51 pm

    Good article here on how the head nuclear scientist was killed by isreal.
    Interesting point re the ‘tepid’ response to the killing of Soleimani spurred them on to kill him.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/18/world/middleeast/iran-nuclear-fakhrizadeh-assassination-israel.html?smid=url-share
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:57 am

    Yes I read article in Sputnik , saying NYT alleging the tired story of ROV operated FN MAG , being used in operation . Problems with story , apart from it , coming from NYT source :

    ( 1 )  As far as I know , FN MAG only available in full Auto mode . Firing 650 to 900 RPM . Report alleges 15 rounds fired total . ( Defence budget cuts imposed a restriction on number of rounds fired ) But even if true , then rounds were dispersed around vehicle . Meaning either the gun mount was unstable or firing happened in single bursts or short bursts . Gun mount being loose not likely . And dispersion of rounds means bursts of fire of less than one second ! About 4 bursts of 3 to 4 rounds , lasting 0.25 seconds each . Difficult in my view , even with operator on site , let alone a ROV set up , involving lag .

    ( 2 ) Absolutely no need to destroy the alleged gun and electronics . Since widely available off the shelf stuff . In fact leaving gun intact with markings would create perfect false flag for attacker .

    Witness reports can not be ignored . Whoever carried out attack , probably had inside help and men on the ground . The blast was to take him out , but was too early and assassins then had no choice but to use pistol at short range ( close grouping of rounds more compatible with pistol at short range , even compared to stabilised MG and also limited number of fired rounds indicate attacker was close enough to ensure a kill with few rounds ) from all directions . Side windows impact proves rounds came from sides of vehicle . Witnesses all support explosion first , then gun fire .

    The Iranians want to hide story , to stop embarrassment or admission to security being compromised . The NYT would like to keep the conflict ongoing and eventual yank intervention mega-bucks and possibly to hide tracks of operatives on the ground in Iran . May indicate political opposition in America or Usrael for war against Iran , thereby needing Iran to strike first and " necessitating " a defensive response . Hence regurgitating the story in vain hope of lighting the war candle ..........


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBjp7oBgMn8



    Edit : Another reason why a remote turret MG mounted on pick up truck , by side of Road makes no sense , because it could be discovered easily and also very heavy and bulky , difficult to hide . Usually needs armoured vehicle to carry it . But again from this video it is clear that the rounds spread widely from MG firings , even with operator on the ground . Look at vehicles in this video . From 5:45 .

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NQSfFvaztdc


    Last edited by nomadski on Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
    crod
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    Post  crod Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:54 am

    Personally, I don't think you give the israeli pricks enough credit.
    Sounds to me like a perfect mossad operation. The moles inside Iran must (should) be of gargantuan concern. They established safe houses within Iran during the more friendly Shah days and are using then to devastating effect against Iran.
    Every year there's a spectacular event.
    Stealing cargo loads of docs relating to nuclear activities, high level assinations to the releasing software attacks from within...fuckers they might be but lethal fuckers all the same.

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    Post  nomadski Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:37 pm

    https://en.mehrnews.com/news/179029/Iran-to-give-crushing-response-to-counter-revolutionaries

    There is no doubt that the present political system , together with it's idiosyncratic and peculiar application of religious rule , has not solved social problems or led to empowerment or welfare of the majority of the population . This misapplication or application of religious rule , has benefited the minority in society . Under these conditions , where the public lack the means to exercises political control , then demonstrations become the only route for them to express their discontent with the status quo .

    A crushing response to street demonstrations or opening fire on demonstrators as in Aban uprising  , will only worsen the already unstable political situation , leading to a civil war and where the public will take up arms against the security services . The consequences of such situation is unpredictable . But gives chances for opportunistic foreign interventions .

    For political progress to be peaceful , public gatherings or demonstrations must be protected by the security services . The public should be able to assemble in allocated areas or buildings and form political parties . Once these form , then new elections can be held and new constitution formed . A Democratic Republic . Only then there is an alternative peaceful Road ahead .

    The security services should then NOT open fire on the public . Not crush them . But protect them . All problems can be solved through Democratic rule . The nationalities question can be settled quickly and in the public interest . All laws need national Democratic approval . Therefore no danger of separatist minority interests ruling against national interests . No danger either of extremist minority rule , religious or otherwise .
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:29 pm


    https://en.mehrnews.com/news/179228/Army-Ground-Force-to-hold-military-drill-in-northwest-Iran

    Like last time , when R . Azer forces were about to March to Yerevan and Israeli drone was flying in North Iran . All they did was to move artillery forward to border . And I think one instance of opening fire inside R. Azer , who were crossing border in fighting . If it was not for Russia , R.Azer and Turk and Israel allies would be in Yerevan now . Iran did not station troops along Armenia border as deterrence . Russia did .

    So the action they took was not appropriate to the task. It was underwhelming and weak . And now ? Some Israeli small moves along border ? Needing movement of 100 Tanks and Artillery ? This also inappropriate . Overwhelming . Are Iranians going to Bomb Azeri towns ? Then why the Artillery and Tanks ? Are we at war with Azeri people ?

    No we are at war with Zionist terrorist , who could launch attacks inside Iran . Or the armed groups they support . And to take them out , we need a very quiet approach . No missiles or big explosions . But special forces . Or with drone strike against bases , same as Iraq , against separatists . Do we move hundred Tanks and Artillery to Iraq border , to take out few terrorists ? Then why R.Azeri border ?

    But if R.Azeri buying Israeli arms , then their legal right . What Iran not able to sell to Syria , because Israel take them out ? Then problem with Israel and yank and not people of R. Azeri . And Iran can not deter them because no Nukes ? Because policy is wrong ? Then change in policy means change in political power in Iran . Not JCPOA .

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    Post  Sujoy Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:52 am

    Tension between Iran and Azerbaijan is rising and both sides are sending troops to the border. This report created by the Iranian media suggests that Pakistan is also supporting Azerbaijan.

    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:46 pm

    Iranian media ? No way ! It is Iran ( Saudi ) International news network of IRINN ! Not to be confused with IRNA , or Islamic Republic news agency . It is broadcast from Saudi , I think , and banned recently in Iran . When I listen to it .........I feel angry..........very angry........All I want to do , is watch European football ........I feel angry .....I want to go into street .........I want to kill somebody.........I want Armani suit..........I want to watch Christian Dior naked fashion show......I want gay rights in Iran .........I want to kill somebody.........I want to learn clever  Persian words from Bahai  Jew intellectual in Paris...........I am so illiterate.......I need to buy books , to pose in front of them....I want to eat like they eat food in Paris restaurant.........I just watch more European Football........I need to buy more cheap Dollars exchange rate.....I care about environment too much.......poor thirsty Cows......poor prisoners.........poor  Iranian workers demonstrating........must demonstrate more.......stay on street all year round.......kill somebody.........eat Armani Suit.........shit European Football.......Dollar exchange **** rate........LOL .


    Seriously , It is not in Iranian or Turkish or Pakistan interests to encourage pan-Turkish expansion in R. Azeri . This will lead to separatism in Iranian Azer region and lead to war in the region . It is not in Iranian interests to encourage pan-Iranian expansion either . For same reason . The ethnic balance will change too much in favour of Azeri  speakers and Farsi speakers will no longer be in majority . This region is best allowed to develop unique character and be independent . With outside powers encouraging  ethnic mixing by smart economic investment in border regions . Occurred it is best not to allow too much military build-up , and disturbing the balance of forces . But R. Azeri is independent nation . Iran main focus should be to obtain own rights of trade and commerce against yank or Israeli pressure . They need a deterrence for this .

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    par far


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    Post  par far Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:48 pm

    Pepe Escobar explains what is going on the border area between Iran and Azerbaijan, the comments also point out good things.


    https://thesaker.is/the-iran-azerbaijan-standoff-is-a-contest-for-the-regions-transportation-corridors/

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    Post  George1 Mon Nov 01, 2021 4:22 am

    US imposed sanctions against Iranian unmanned aerial vehicle program

    On October 29, 2021, the US Treasury Department and the US State Department announced the imposition of sanctions against the Iranian unmanned aerial vehicle program. Iranian reconnaissance and attack unmanned aerial vehicle Mohajer-6 at the parade of the Iraqi People's Militia (al-Hashd al-Shaabi) in Diyala (Iraq) 06/26/2021 (c) via imp-navigator.livejournal.com

    Two Iranian companies - Kimia Part Sivan Company (KIPAS) and Oje Parvaz Mado Nafar Company (Mado Company) - and four personalities - the head of the Jihad Organization for research and self-sufficiency of the IRGC Chief Brigadier General Abdollah Mehrabi, Head of the UAV Command of the IRGC Aerospace Forces Brigadier General Said Aghajani, one of the leaders of KIPAS Mohammad Ebrahim Zargar Tehrani and Managing Director of Mado Company Youssef Abtalebi.

    In a statement , US Deputy Finance Minister Wally Adeyemi says that "the spread of Iran UAV throughout the region threatens international peace and stability. Iran and its puppet militants have used drones to attack US troops, our partners and international maritime transport. The Ministry of Finance will continue to hold Iran accountable for its irresponsible and violent actions. ”

    In a statement on the matter, US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken said that "the United States will use all appropriate tools to counter the malicious influence and activities of Iran, including the proliferation of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs)."

    And further: “The IRGC has used and distributed lethal UAVs to Iran-backed groups, including attacks on US forces and international shipping. The United States will use all available tools, including sanctions, to prevent, deter and dismantle procurement networks that supply materials and technology. associated with UAVs to Iran, as well as Iranian organizations that are involved in such proliferation. "

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4421976.html

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    Post  GarryB Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:11 am

    Suggests they are going to be a problem moving forward for the US and Saudi Arabia and Israel....
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    Post  nomadski Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:40 pm

    I just point out some observations about this popular court of people in London . Despite the fact that the disturbances in Aban , were nationwide and concentrated mainly in Tehran , that disproportionate number of witnesses seem to be from districts with restive or separatist populations , such as Balouchistan and Khuzestan and Kurdistan .

    However if we forget about this anomaly , and believe as true everything being said in this court . Then it seems that different political groups , pro and anti- government were ready for a showdown . And prior to the announcement of increase of petrol prices and demonstrations , armed troops were stationed in different towns . Also that by large most demonstrations were orderly and on rare occasions became disturbed , when troops opened fire with tear Gas and Rubber bullets and batons . Here it seems a few buildings were damaged and Windows broken , and few banks were set on fire .

    Many witnesses , including some security officials in court , reported that plain clothes agents then set about burning many more banks and smashing many more shops and troops then opened fire with live rounds at crowds , who largely remained orderly . The killings were done using many different units , and some weapons were supplied , to criminals released from prison , to shoot demonstrators . These weapons were non-standard old weapons , that could not be traced to security services . There are reports that these prisoners were later killed .

    It seems that 70% of deaths from shootings were from deliberate shots to the head of victims at close range . Most victims were from 20 to 30 years old and from working class background or poor . The victims had on occasion had rounds removed from corpses , to stop identification of weapons . On occasion victims were not allowed to enter hospitals . Inadequate medical treatment is also reported .

    The victims were buried mostly away from place of residence , in nearby Towns . Relatives were not allowed to attend funerals , and were told not to display photographs of the victims even in their own homes . Some relatives of the victims were also arrested later , who did not keep quiet .

    Of the thousands that were arrested , some were killed in prison . Many tortured by hooded men ,  into signing confessions and paying large sums of money to officials . The exact number of those killed is not known and range from 200 to more than 4000 . The number arrested about 7000 .

    I have talked over the years , about the rights and wrongs of holding demonstrations , controlling the crowds and protecting them . As well as maintaining security . But if we are to believe the testimony of witnesses , then the security apparatus , knew and set a trap for demonstrators , and created conditions where they could be murdered and this involved authorities at the highest level . Clinging to power , through fear !

    RIP to all those innocent demonstrators , killed unjustly . But this will not be the last of it !
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    Post  GarryB Sat Nov 13, 2021 4:46 am

    How could we possibly believe what is being said in this court?

    It is located in London... they have no interest in peace or truth or justice and likely did everything they could to inflame and indeed create the situation.

    The reactions of governments to protests are interesting because governments in the west can do no wrong and all the blame is at the feet of the terrorists and insurrectionists that are protesting, but in other countries like Iran and Venezuela it is an oppressive and evil government crushing the will of the people.

    I am going to hold a court in my basement and hear evidence from all the people the west is murdering... all sorts of stories will be told... but no one will be saved... what would I expect to achieve with such a "court hearing"... just more propaganda to support anti west actions and sanctions and to turn media and population to war and attacks and sanctions to make those poor innocent people we care so much about suffer even more.
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    Post  nomadski Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:56 pm

    @GarryB

    ".......How could we possibly believe what is being said in this court?

    It is located in London... they have no interest in peace or truth or justice and likely did everything they could to inflame and indeed create the situation.

    The reactions of governments to protests are interesting because governments in the west can do no wrong and all the blame is at the feet of the terrorists and insurrectionists that are protesting, but in other countries like Iran and Venezuela it is an oppressive and evil government crushing the will of the people.

    I am going to hold a court in my basement and hear evidence from all the people the west is murdering... all sorts of stories will be told... but no one will be saved... what would I expect to achieve with such a "court hearing"... just more propaganda to support anti west actions and sanctions and to turn media and population to war and attacks and sanctions to make those poor innocent people we care so much about suffer even more......."



    we can believe the minimum agreed upon data by most sides . This points to killing at least 3 to 4 hundred , by security forces . Unarmed citizens . Engaged mostly in peaceful street protests . Unknown number of injured . 7000 detained . Unknown number executed . Unknown number waiting execution . Unknown number tortured . Yes the location is London , but so is the grave of Karl Marx ! And this court has previously addressed other human Rights issues fairly . And yes the propaganda value is important for the enemy , they have been reporting somewhat accurately problems in Iran for years , unfortunately they do not need to lie too much , we have a lot of problems . The difference is that the only solution they provide , is increased anger and violent confrontation to address internal problems ! Yes some situations are not addressed by this court , problems in USA or Europe , but also the situation in Saudi could be addressed next . Everyone likes to hide own crimes . Still this court has more value than less , because it clarifies to the majority , what issues need addressing . It should be held by every country , in own territory . This court should be held in Iran . I did not know the horrible detail of murders possibly committed by criminal elements and deliberate shootings to kill . We know what they ( the enemy )  want to achieve by these courts . We want to achieve different things . It is a race for power . The present system is unstable . They want to establish the Shah . We want to establish Democracy . The whole thing makes it even more obvious that a fully democratic system must be established .
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    Post  GarryB Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:54 am

    Yes the location is London , but so is the grave of Karl Marx ! And this court has previously addressed other human Rights issues fairly .

    Recent term of virtue signalling... but the actual practise of pretending to care about people in one breath and banning the import of life saving medicine of all types... not just vaccines but cancer medicines etc etc in the other.

    Everything in the west is political or it does not happen.

    Problems in Iran should be sorted out in Iran by Iranians, not in some den of thieves and criminals in Europe.

    The best you can hope for is Iran is bad and needs to be changed regime change style.

    Wonder if they will try what they tried in Venezuela and send in mercenaries to Irans biggest prisons and raid nearby Iranian military weapon stores... break out the rapists and murderers and clinically insane and give them assault rifles and machine guns... that is how democracy is seeded.

    Pressure can turn ordinary carbon into diamonds, but I think you could also appreciate pressure more often in the human world can't create diamonds... at best you get haemorrhoids... which are literally a pain in the arse.

    This court case has nothing to do with human rights or justice or peace... like anything you give to the west it will be hardened and sharpened and shaped in to a weapon and will be used to justify an attack.

    And yes the propaganda value is important for the enemy , they have been reporting somewhat accurately problems in Iran for years , unfortunately they do not need to lie too much , we have a lot of problems

    Course you have problems... everyone has problems... but don't you want to ask why are they focusing on your problems instead of their own problems... do they really care so much about you, or are they spotting a gap... a weakness they can attack and take advantage of... not to get you a better government.... look at Libya or Syria.... they could care less about the country and who rules it... even if it is broken into tiny pieces controlled by war lords as long as they can get what they want... normally oil or minerals or to eliminate a threat they created in their own minds.

    Still this court has more value than less , because it clarifies to the majority , what issues need addressing .

    Seems to be a tool for painting all the enemies of the west in black so they can be targeted as the bad guy... for a decade Saddam could do no wrong... he helped the US with cheap oil in the 70s and fought evil Iran in the 80s... an evil Iran that was best buddies with the west in the 70s when the CIA were in charge of course... then Saddam misunderstood a chat with an American diplomat and thought he had the OK to invade Kuwaite and then his crimes against humanity were in the news for the next few decades till he was murdered along with about 20 of the lawyers defending him all legal by a court...

    European courts are for putting Serbs and Africans in jail.

    This court should be held in Iran . I did not know the horrible detail of murders possibly committed by criminal elements and deliberate shootings to kill . We know what they ( the enemy ) want to achieve by these courts . We want to achieve different things . It is a race for power . The present system is unstable . They want to establish the Shah . We want to establish Democracy . The whole thing makes it even more obvious that a fully democratic system must be established .

    So you could argue that many of those innocent deaths are created by the two sides using force to get their way... this is in essence a revolution... and what real impact on Iran is a court case in London going to achieve for Iranian people? Will they recognise the lack of authority of the court or have all sides agreed to respect the decision, because if not then it is a pointless propaganda exercise perpetrated by the west to get them to look the other way while new laws and restrictions are imposed in their own areas... the situation in Iran is the smoke and the mirrors in a magic trick... what sort of solution are you expecting from all this bullshit.

    Serious situation of course, but the solution is not located in the UK for any of the worlds problems.
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    Post  nomadski Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:22 pm

    ".....Recent term of virtue signalling... but the actual practise of pretending to care about people in one breath and banning the import of life saving medicine of all types... not just vaccines but cancer medicines etc etc in the other....."

    Agree . More people are dying in Iran , because of sanctions , yet no Court condemns it . Still , even if scope of this court is limited , and does not address the causes of economic hardship , that are at least in part because of sanctions , it addresses contributory factors that lead to further injury and hardship for the people . Namely the oppressive and excessive measures undertaken by the authorities .


    ".....The best you can hope for is Iran is bad and needs to be changed regime change style....."

    Yes Agree . The conclusion they ( the enemy )  will draw , is further sanctions that will hurt Iranian public . More support for violent demonstrations . But knowing this fact alone , allows us to understand their tactics . And address our weaknesses . We do not know our own weaknesses , and will not talk about it . They inadvertently point them out !


    "...Wonder if they will try what they tried in Venezuela and send in mercenaries to Irans biggest prisons and raid nearby Iranian military weapon stores... break out the rapists and murderers and clinically insane and give them assault rifles and machine guns... that is how democracy is seeded..... "


    They are already importing weapons into ethnically sensitive areas , like Khuzestan . If the Iranians can not organise their political life and are at odds , then the enemy will organise them efficiently to fight and kill each other , from whatever popular group or official organ , they belong to .

    ".....Pressure can turn ordinary carbon into diamonds, but I think you could also appreciate pressure more often in the human world can't create diamonds... at best you get haemorrhoids... which are literally a pain in the arse......"


    Agree . Rome was not built in a day . That is why the enemy imposes pressure . External sanctions pressure . Internal oppressive pressure .


    ".....This court case has nothing to do with human rights or justice or peace... like anything you give to the west it will be hardened and sharpened and shaped in to a weapon and will be used to justify an attack....... "

    We must distinguish between the work of the Court , and any political use that it may be put to . You and I , may both own Cars , but have different destinations . The information that I take away from it , is the fear that political establishment has with loosing political power , and their use of fear to stay in power . Maintain minority rule and therefore the need for Iran to transition into Multi-party democracy . The information that they take away , is the usefulness of disorganised  protests in removing any state control , and imposing a Coup or intervention to diminish democratic rights .

    "........So you could argue that many of those innocent deaths are created by the two sides using force to get their way... this is in essence a revolution... and what real impact on Iran is a court case in London going to achieve for Iranian people? Will they recognise the lack of authority of the court or have all sides agreed to respect the decision, because if not then it is a pointless propaganda exercise perpetrated by the west to get them to look the other way while new laws and restrictions are imposed in their own areas... the situation in Iran is the smoke and the mirrors in a magic trick... what sort of solution are you expecting from all this bullshit.

    Serious situation of course, but the solution is not located in the UK for any of the worlds problems........."

    Deaths were caused by the wrong use of deadly force against mostly peaceful demonstrators , some of which were shouting political slogans in opposition to Islamic Republic . It is not a Revolution . Not that Revolutions are necessarily good , but protests were spontaneous and leaderless . You can not have a Revolution in the absence of leadership , even a minimal one . Best outcome is social chaos ! There will be impact , I am not sure in what direction . Agree the solutions are located in Iran .

    Since protests were spontaneous and without political leadership , we might expect chaotic situations . This negates the possibility of coordinated action by protesters in say attacking specific targets , such as Banks . If Banks were attacked methodically , then an organised force or group , other than protesters carried out . Initial reports of false flag carried out by the state , to justify use of deadly force is believable . This fact was addressed in court , as an oddity . Not seen in other similar protests , where police vehicles for example had been the targets , or the usual looting of shops . .....

    What adds to the credibility of this oddity , is the absence of any witnesses in Court that supported this idea of authorities shooting a protester during a Bank raid . In fact there were no reports ! However the majority of the shootings were during normal peaceful protests . Also reports of plain clothes agents that initiated stone throwing at the police , to enable a harsh retaliation .

    A member of parliament or deputy interior minister proudly took responsibility for killing Iranians today , who were " burning Banks " ! But I bet he can not provide any evidence for it ! Iranians have reached a Fork in the Road . One leads to peace and the other to civil war . But the Right wing  decided long ago to draw the line in the sand with blood !  They think they are in a strong position , immune or invulnerable ! They have God on their side ! Or at least a Mullah , here or there .........

    Poorly defined terms in the constitution regarding the loss of control by authorities or use of live ammunition adds to these problems . Control assumes a legitimate authority that is authorised by public vote to do the controlling . And the present administration lacks legitimacy by lack of popular votes , to be the controlling authority . And also this lack of control must be significant to allow the controlling authority to take action . It must be significant . Affecting the health of citizens by day closure of Roads for a long time or occupation of important buildings for extended periods , so as to affecting lives or safety . Such benchmark was not achieved . Use of live rounds was not justified for the same reason . People have a right to demand political rights or change of governments in demonstrations . This is no reason to shoot them dead !


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    Post  GarryB Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:13 am

    Agree . More people are dying in Iran , because of sanctions , yet no Court condemns it . Still , even if scope of this court is limited , and does not address the causes of economic hardship , that are at least in part because of sanctions , it addresses contributory factors that lead to further injury and hardship for the people . Namely the oppressive and excessive measures undertaken by the authorities .

    So effectively what you are saying is that in effect this is a German Nazi court with London officials on trial for the extreme austerity measures taken during the blitz... people had their rights oppressed, and of course there was rationing of food with some getting more than others on an unfair basis.

    Would the Iranian regime be this way were it still under the agreement they signed with the west removing those sanctions?

    The problems of Iran ultimately come from the west, expecting the west to solve their problems in a propaganda court is just stupid.

    By appearing in this court and testifying these Iranian victims are proving perhaps their government should have been harsh with them... running to the enemy the first chance they got to squeal like little pigs.
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    Post  nomadski Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:43 am

    GarryB wrote :

    "......So effectively what you are saying is that in effect this is a German Nazi court with London officials on trial for the extreme austerity measures taken during the blitz... people had their rights oppressed, and of course there was rationing of food with some getting more than others on an unfair basis.

    Would the Iranian regime be this way were it still under the agreement they signed with the west removing those sanctions?

    The problems of Iran ultimately come from the west, expecting the west to solve their problems in a propaganda court is just stupid.

    By appearing in this court and testifying these Iranian victims are proving perhaps their government should have been harsh with them... running to the enemy the first chance they got to squeal like little pigs......."




    Comparing the two situations ? Did British people demand resignation of Government during Blitz ? Because of austerity ? And if so were they shot ? Please if you have some links , provide them . Even if they had , does this justify the present brutal crackdown on Iran ? These demonstrations were not purely economical . As many protesters testified in court . The increase in petrol prices was only a trigger . There was a mass movement before , during which there was also shootings and killings by the state . And many more incidents of shootings and killings by the state , going back to the beginning of the  " Revolution " .

    Agree that removal of sanctions will contribute towards easing the economic burdens on the public . Perhaps by oil revenue being spent on food aid for the people . But it will not solve all problems . The government ( the illegitimate minority administration ) has admitted inability to control price rises and inflation . A symptom of dominance of Bazzari class in politics . No lifting of sanctions will solve this problem . Eventually these problems will emerge and have to be resolved by a Democratic process or Revolution to empower the working class .

    If the authorities treat the public like Pigs , and slaughter them like Pigs , then can we blame them for behaving like Pigs ? Squealing and running here or there ? Next time these pigs will read Animal farm , and demand their rights ! Or turn into Wolves and devour their oppressors ! Luckily for the people , it seems that the executioners are limited in number , a very few individuals , such as the President or deputy head of interior ministry or a vigilante murderer of lone demonstrators walking about  , later  turned torturer and prison official , also being  responsible for the Afkari case or Embassy official ( political spy ) later appointed as Evin torturer . The job of identifying them and confronting them , may be easier than we think . A few individuals being responsible for the vast majority of murders ! Hence the need to import foreign ( perhaps Lebanese ) mercenaries with no objections to shooting Iranians dead ! A long history of employment of  mercenaries in previous protests .......








    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Farm

    To the Russians and Chinese .

    So what does this have to do with Russia ? We may argue nothing . The Iranian authorities maintain good relations . Nothing to do with us ! But I would argue the same way , regarding relations with the Taliban . It should be conditional . No blank cheque . Not good enough to say , the Taliban buying some AK47 from Ludmila the gun seller , in order to kill the tribe in Herat ! Who cares ,  we are making money ! As seems to be the prevalent opinion by the Gun runners on this forum . This is an extremism  and lack of political insight . A short termism  and a product of narrow economic interests , overriding long term political interest . No support , when they brutally oppress the people ! No guns ! No aid in this activity . No special invitation to criminal politicians . Contacts should be justified only if they have genuine long term benefits for those peoples or nations interests . A political economy . Condemnation of brutality and anti-social activity . condemnation of anti-democratic activity . Of murderer and torture . At home and abroad .


    To the Iranian army .

    We should not allow the West and Liberals to win the human Rights arguments in their favour , by our silence or caution . The fight for democratic rights should be led by progressives and democrats , not Liberals . Also in the future the Iranian armed forces , should disobey any order given to them to shoot to  kill protesters , by criminal politicians . And arrest any unit or commander that opens fire on the public . Arrest any politician giving orders to shoot to kill unarmed protesters ! A revolutionary duty .
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:56 am

    https://en.mehrnews.com/news/181171/JCPOA-Joint-commission-meeting-to-be-held-in-Coburg-Hotel



    The mistakes of Iranians :

    ( 1 )  Linking trade and economy with defence .

    ( 2 )  Not developing a Nuke warhead .

    ( 3 ) Not developing ICBM or Nuclear Submarine , delivery mechanism .

    ( 4 )  No guarantee is possible by external powers , against sanctions or attack .

    ( 5 )  Less for less or more for more , damaging to both economy and defence .

    The Americans can impose sanctions or not , this is in the sphere of economics . The Americans can fight Iran or allies militarily , this is in the sphere of military . But there should be no mixing of these issues , with Iran strategic deterrence , useful to keep Iran safe , from all attacks . No negotiation with USA on Nuclear issue , Even if they lift sanctions ! Iran strategic Nuclear deterrence , is non-negotiable .
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:21 am


    Comparing the two situations ? Did British people demand resignation of Government during Blitz ? Because of austerity ? And if so were they shot ?

    If there were such a thing as a free society I would like to see it... the UK pretending to be the worlds arbiter is hilarious considering the damage they have done to this planet... I mean when the use of force is banned by the US then the west invents a new situation... humanitarian intervention... the same use of force they always used to get their way to get western friendly governments elected or western unfriendly governments removed... with violence.

    Even if they had , does this justify the present brutal crackdown on Iran ? These demonstrations were not purely economical . As many protesters testified in court . The increase in petrol prices was only a trigger .

    People have a right to protest and have their say... though in the current situation with Covid they would be fucking stupid to do so IMHO, but then the lives they are risking are their own.

    What they don't have the rights for is to disobey a police officer, so after they have had their march and the police tell the crowd to disperse and they don't then force is always the option used... EVERYWHERE.

    There was a mass movement before , during which there was also shootings and killings by the state . And many more incidents of shootings and killings by the state , going back to the beginning of the " Revolution " .

    Same in the west... they dress it up with all sorts of BS, but they are no better. In the 1920s when workers were protesting poor wages and poor work conditions the Ford motor company payed some people and provided them with Thompson Sub Machine Guns... to deal with the problem.... don't you love the irony... workers complaining at not being paid enough and Ford can afford one of the most expensive publicly available weapons of the time to have them shot.


    Agree that removal of sanctions will contribute towards easing the economic burdens on the public .

    So what do the protesters want... US Oil companies to come in and take all the contracts... pay the locals minimum wage and steal the oil wealth of Iran under their noses... do you think after they are done and there is no oil or gas in Iran they will suddenly be nice?

    Perhaps by oil revenue being spent on food aid for the people . But it will not solve all problems .

    What do they think it is being spent on?

    The government ( the illegitimate minority administration ) has admitted inability to control price rises and inflation .

    Of course because everyone should expect the government of Iran under sanctions from the rich and powerful US and her western stooges, in a situation where they are also dealing with Covid as well should have complete control of price rises and inflation.

    Funny that the UK and US are also struggling with price rises and inflation too while having world class economies and no one having them under sanction that matters to them...

    Makes you wonder what a bunch of whiny censored these Iranians protesting are... or are they protesting because Tik Tok and Facebook tell them everything is great everywhere else and it is all just the Iranian governments doing.

    A symptom of dominance of Bazzari class in politics . No lifting of sanctions will solve this problem . Eventually these problems will emerge and have to be resolved by a Democratic process or Revolution to empower the working class .

    For goodness sake.... you wonder why people are getting killed and just because those innocent Iranians are essentially demanding regime change... people were executed in the US when their protest entered certain government buildings and the current government is treating those protesters like terrorists which means they will be getting prison sentences longer than most rapists or murderers in the country... what are we even talking about here?

    If the authorities treat the public like Pigs , and slaughter them like Pigs , then can we blame them for behaving like Pigs ?

    Except it is the other way around... the only pigs getting slaughtered are people acting like pigs. When a child refuses to behave and defies the father to his face, is the father supposed to tussle his hair and say well done for standing up for yourself? If the child is doing damage... smashing other peoples cars, breaking windows... to get attention... he is unarmed and much weaker than the father so no smack on the backside or clip around the ear...

    A mob of people is dangerous even when they have no fire arms... do you think a rock cannot injure someone, or those metal bars and clubs they carry are to help them keep their balance walking through the broken glass? If you think the police should not be armed you are going to get a lot of police officers killed... who is going to want to be a police officer if they are not allowed to protect themselves?

    You can beat up one criminal but if those criminals gather together and form a mob then they can do as they please... but I am guessing not near your house...

    Next time these pigs will read Animal farm , and demand their rights ! Or turn into Wolves and devour their oppressors !

    You are assuming they are not already turning into wolves and those are the ones getting shot.

    A few individuals being responsible for the vast majority of murders ! Hence the need to import foreign ( perhaps Lebanese ) mercenaries with no objections to shooting Iranians dead ! A long history of employment of mercenaries in previous protests .......

    Textbook British colonial thing to do. Take the lowest of the low and put them in charge.... they will generally happily oppress the people who just spent hundreds or thousands of years oppressing them... and their loyalty is guaranteed because without colonial support they would be gone in a week and after all this things wont be as bad as it used to be... it will be worse.

    Not good enough to say , the Taliban buying some AK47 from Ludmila the gun seller , in order to kill the tribe in Herat ! Who cares , we are making money !

    Of course the worlds problems would all end if Russian and China stopped making weapons, because if they can't buy Russian or Chinese weapons then they wont bother.

    A short termism and a product of narrow economic interests , overriding long term political interest . No support , when they brutally oppress the people ! No guns ! No aid in this activity . No special invitation to criminal politicians . Contacts should be justified only if they have genuine long term benefits for those peoples or nations interests . A political economy . Condemnation of brutality and anti-social activity . condemnation of anti-democratic activity . Of murderer and torture . At home and abroad .

    You sound like an American... trade and commerce tied together with politics... pick your sides and only arm your friends... except CAASTA shows it isn't working because even US friends are buying Russian military equipment.

    Russia and China and Iran have trade ties and many things in common... I very much doubt Russia or China want to fund terrorist organisations anywhere, but then their view of what a terrorist might be different from yours... certainly the US and Israel justify their sanctions on Iran over support for groups allied with Palestinians and many anti zionists.

    Nice short memory you have there too... Iran was happy to support various Muj factions in Afghanistan while Soviet troops were there... Russias new policy seems to be that of non interference in the sense that they don't try to make Syria or Iraq or Iran change their government policies to suit them or their trade relations, but if they declare they have problems with terrorist groups and ask Russia for help then Russia will attempt to provide help where it believes it can do the most good. Together with Iran good things have been done in Syria for example.


    We should not allow the West and Liberals to win the human Rights arguments in their favour , by our silence or caution .

    The west has done more to undermine democracy around the world than any other country or group of countries in known history... it influences every election on the planet... and any it can't change it refuses to accept the results. If the results go the way they want them to then there is no scrutiny allowed (ie Biden election), but if the results go the other way demands for recounts or empeachments continue for the entire period of the persons term in their elected position (Trump). And in the case of Trump even beyond...

    Also in the future the Iranian armed forces , should disobey any order given to them to shoot to kill protesters , by criminal politicians . And arrest any unit or commander that opens fire on the public . Arrest any politician giving orders to shoot to kill unarmed protesters ! A revolutionary duty .

    If the Army has been called then it is a riot and not a protest, which should be made clear to all civilians present at the time. Give the innocent time to disperse and then start either beating the crap out of those that remain or arrest them... and if necessary shoot them.

    Riots have nothing to do with democracy.... there is no country on the planet that confuses peaceful democratic protest with arson, looting, and willful damage.

    I saw a black woman being interviewed after a riot in the US and the interviewer asked her how they could destroy their own neighbourhood, and she said the people rioting didn't own anything... none of the stuff that was burning was theirs.... houses are rentals owned by people somewhere else sucking income out of the place, and the police are useless (her words not mine) because they never do anything and a lot of the time there is no one available to come help. Sometimes the person who called the police ends up getting shot, so people learn not to trust the police.

    They had an interview with a Palestinian that seemed so similar it was sad... they said they called the police when jewish settlers broke the law or did damage and the police came but helped the settlers. When there is no police to help you then starting a war becomes easy because short of giving up it is really your only option against those in power.

    The problem is education... mobs and riots are not instruments of democracy... a free media and the ballot box.

    You can' expect a government to change policy when 10,000 people march in protest at this or that law or condition, because the next day 20,000 people might go out and march for the opposite...

    Is that how you see the future of Iran... polling referendums based on how many people bother to go out and protest on a given topic... Iran is not going to get very much done if that is the case because the people will spend all day and every day at protests.

    More importantly how democratic is it to make government policy on a 10,000 man march in one city in Iran... how many Iranians are there? 60 million or so?

    What about other opinions outside that city?

    And all these people spending the day walking down the middle of the street holding signs... what should the rest of the population be thinking if the police tells them to go home and they refuse... and the army tells them to go home and they refuse and start breaking stuff and burning stuff.

    I am not suggesting exections at random like the US paid for at Maidan with Georgian snipers... but who is to say there weren't Jewish spies and US spies there with a few rifles picking off a few expendable people like they did at Maidan... groom a few youtubers... get them a bit of a following and then have them step up at a protest in Iran and have them shot in the head.... they openly did that in the Ukraine... do you honestly think they would not do it in Iran? Hell... they shot and killed people at the capitol building in the US...
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:25 am

    @GarryB


    "....the UK pretending to be the worlds arbiter is hilarious ...."  Yes , they make claims . But it is not they , who are making this claim ! It is me ! There is a big difference between domestic and foreign policy . Domestic policy is more advanced , Britain is a post industrial advanced Capitalist / semi Socialist state , we can learn a lot from ! But foreign policy is interventionist and domineering and exploitative ! We need to reject this .


    "......What they don't have the rights for is to disobey a police officer, so after they have had their march and the police tell the crowd to disperse and they don't then force is always the option used... EVERYWHERE......." No not quite . We can not compare the relatively good police practices in some situations , Even in The " corrupt West " to the use of live rounds and shotguns by the " police " ( read : right wing extremist reactionary elements in the security services in Iran ) in Iran . Force must not result in injury to the public .


    "......Same in the west... they dress it up with all sorts of BS, but they are no better. In the 1920s when workers were protesting poor wages and poor work conditions the Ford motor company payed some people and provided them with Thompson Sub Machine Guns... to deal with the problem.... don't you love the irony... workers complaining at not being paid enough and Ford can afford one of the most expensive publicly available weapons of the time to have them shot......" What kind of reasoning is this ? We must learn the best in each other and copy it , without shame ! Not the worst .  Hitler melted the Jews into Soap , do we justify this also , under Islamic law ?


    "......So what do the protesters want... US Oil companies to come in and take all the contracts... pay the locals minimum wage and steal the oil wealth of Iran under their noses... do you think after they are done and there is no oil or gas in Iran they will suddenly be nice?....."  As a Democrat , I do not care what they want . All I care about is their Democratic right to get it peacefully . They may want America back in Iran . Fine . Or any other crazy idea . Their right . Not like now , that an extremist right wing religious minority has given up circumcision in favour of ruling through a dictatorship !


    ".....Makes you wonder what a bunch of whiny censored these Iranians protesting are... or are they protesting because Tik Tok and Facebook tell them everything is great everywhere else and it is all just the Iranian governments doing....... "  They do not want this undemocratic system of government . They are ready to die for it . Protests are not going away .


    ".....For goodness sake.... you wonder why people are getting killed and just because those innocent Iranians are essentially demanding regime change... people were executed in the US when their protest entered certain government buildings and the current government is treating those protesters like terrorists which means they will be getting prison sentences longer than most rapists or murderers in the country... what are we even talking about here?....." we are talking about either a peaceful democratic change or violent democratic change . In Iran , the Right wing has long decided on settling matters violently . As in days of the Shah , or of Ayatollahs . In the name of king and country , or later in the name of God . But in both occasions with a bullet fired.......

    "....You can beat up one criminal but if those criminals gather together and form a mob then they can do as they please... but I am guessing not near your house... " Agree about criminals gathering . But in case of Iran , it is the minority Bazzari theifs and Mullah Bazzari and landlords who formed this mob and did as they please . Yes they suffocated my friends with a Rope for the crime of Socialism and exiled and destroyed my life ! They did come knocking on my door !


    "......You are assuming they are not already turning into wolves and those are the ones getting shot......."  A violent situation brought on by the Right wing ! Worsened by their refusal to form a Democratic Republic . By their excesses . Refusal to defend Iran , in face of sanctions or attack ! Profiteering and corruption . It is their God against the people's God ! And God always looses when faced with the people .


    "....Of course the worlds problems would all end if Russian and China stopped making weapons, because if they can't buy Russian or Chinese weapons then they wont bother....."  Self defence weapons for Army ,  is fine . But Russia and China NOT to supply tear gas or water cannons or shot gun for " riot control " . No red carpet for the Communist killer either !

    "...... Russias new policy seems to be that of non interference....."  So what is Syria ? We all have relations , expectations and politics ! So let the Right wing anti-social democratic elements in Iran create havoc and bloodshed , without even a whisper from Russia and China ! Let them then state a Coup and bring Shah back ! And all the USA military bases and listening stations in North Iran  and over flights by F35 into Russian territory ! And forget about Russians coming South ! They can share a drink of Vodka with a polar Bear to keep warm , in the North pole !


    ".....and if necessary shoot them....."  Necessary to save a life ? Yes . But in recent protests , no life was in danger by protests . No long term occupation of critical infrastructure took place , that could have or did result in loss of life . There was damage to property , yes . But even if , this was the work of some protesters , then shooting was not an appropriate response . An arrest should have been made . Shootings of mostly innocent protesters is exactly what will cause a civil war . An opportunity for foreign intervention of a Coup . I can not put it simpler than that .

    Long live a Democratic and peaceful ( and Nuclear armed ) Iran .
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:14 pm

    https://www.gear.mit.edu/home-use-desalination



    So the Isfahani cleric , supposedly saying that if no rain in next 2 to 3 months results in no drinking water , read this article !  The scientists in Iran cooperate with India scientist for mass production of DIY , home desalination kits for the people . Do it now !


    https://www.homemade-circuits.com/make-your-own-rapid-sea-water/


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PT6cjp_zThw


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zf4JrsqlIkU
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:36 am

    But even if , this was the work of some protesters , then shooting was not an appropriate response . An arrest should have been made . Shootings of mostly innocent protesters is exactly what will cause a civil war . An opportunity for foreign intervention of a Coup . I can not put it simpler than that .

    You make it sound like when the damage was done that the police and authorities just randomly opened fire at just anyone present.

    If that is the case then I agree with you, but most police these days observe the crowd and look for agitators and instigators... the people in the background egging the fucking idiots on... the fucking idiots that burn cars and smash windows and really don't give a shit about the protest and just want a chance to steal a big screen TV or set fire to someone elses nice car.

    Even if there is a criminal element within Irans police structure... a bunch of sadists who just want to kill people but don't want to join the army where people shoot back... then I still think it is a waste of time having a court case in London over this because the government of Iran have every reason to ignore all their findings and decisions whether they have merit or not because the whole case is politically based.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:57 am



    @ GarryB

    "....If that is the case then I agree with you....." Ok . If news about Isfahan protests are true by foreign media , and obviously there was no opportunity or evidence for violence or destruction of property by protesters , gathering in a dry river bed , protesting shortage of water ( or even chanting : down with the Islamic Republic ! ) tear gas was fired and reportedly 19 individuals suffered sight loss , because the Iranian " security " services shot them in the eye with shot gun pellets , then it is truly the case !

    People have the right to gather . They have the right to chant demands . They have the right to demand change in political system . They have the right to form political parties . They have the right to vote in a new democratic constitution . The present usurpers and dictators have no right to shoot them . They have no right to violently suppress political opposition . They have no right to ban political parties . They have no right to limit people's power by any religious justification . .......

    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:40 pm

    https://en.mehrnews.com/news/181272/US-confirms-its-readiness-to-lift-all-sanctions-Ulyanov


    Of course it is predictable what the Americans will do . Promise to lift all  sanctions , in public  . So the Clerics and co can lie to the public and sell the ongoing positive negotiations ! While in secret they will promise to lift a few sanctions , so the negotiators will sign on the dotted line . And in reality they will lift one or two sanctions to allow the sellout administration , their prodigy , to throw a few crumbs to the public to avert a Revolution ! And then once Iran gives up 250 kg of 20% and 60% and then pour concrete again and put spy here or there and blow this up and blow that up and assassinate  when Trump comes back in ! Hell , they may even allow a few exports into USA to sweeten the medicine for the Clerics Bazzari friends  !The cost to disarm Iran ? Zero . Since they recuperate by trade in short term . Then they will attack at the right time ! When the bread crumbs they threw to the public is finished , and there is no Cake to eat either , and civil war is in full swing ! And the American smart Bombs are killing innocent civilians unsmartly ! While brave Iranian commanders proclaim  Iran's involnurability ! And attribute the explosions to a mass hallucinations or a passing thunder cloud ! Attack them , while they at war with each other ! Like Afghanistan Or Iraq Or Libya Or Syria  ! Raisi and Rouhani are two sides of the same coin ! Ready to short change Iran defence and economy , to keep their unpopular minority in power , a little bit longer !
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    Post  lancelot Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:01 am

    If the Iranian leadership hasn't learned the lesson with the Libyan campaign then they deserve whatever they get.
    Iran needs its own deterrent and it should have reach to hit the US.

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