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    "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile:

    psg
    psg


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    Post  psg Sun May 28, 2023 11:31 pm

    While the Hermes missile system stands to be very capable and very potent, working off a multitude of platforms, I still believe there is enough room for other cheaper and simpler systems to work alongside the Hermes and other strike systems.

    I am talking about the Krasnopol-2M (152mm) and the Kitolov-2M (122mm) guided shells, carried as the front end of MLRS systems. BM27 for the Krasnopol and BM21 for the Kitolov, both are being modernised to extend their respective ranges, the Krasnopol is also being modified to be dropped by UAVs. Being attached to these simple rockets (sleeved) each launcher can carry a mix of conventional unguided rockets, Glonass guided and these Laser guided versions, to work closely with UAVs, the Laser rockets would be used primarily to hit moving targets.

    Point being these rockets with guided front ends (already massed produced) can be put into service very quickly, making rocket artillery even more flexible and capable of engaging different types of targets, as they present themselves in battle.

    GarryB, zardof, Sprut-B, thegopnik and Belisarius like this post

    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Mon May 29, 2023 2:27 am

    limb wrote:
    >comparing a loitering munition to a NLOS ATGM
    >Comparing an actual weapon of war with thousands of hohols killed to a piece of shit that got thousands of hohols killed.

    GarryB, GunshipDemocracy, Sprut-B, thegopnik, Hole, Broski and Belisarius like this post

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    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Post  GarryB Mon May 29, 2023 6:11 am

    I think the Pantsir-SM is already considered operational since December 1, 2022 when I read Pods article on that Pantsir thread. And the Hermes missiles is basically just that but with a slightly bigger sustainer 2nd stage.

    The SA-22 is a command guided SAM with no terminal guidance at all.

    The Hermes missile was going to be based upon it, but they have decided that the terminal stage needs its own propulsion so it can perform manouvers as it approaches the ground target and not slow down too much... the intention is to make it very hard to shoot down.

    That is what is causing the delay, but it is also what will make it a very potent missile.

    The other reason it does not enter service at the same time as the SAM is because the Hermes actually has terminal guidance, so IIR or MMW radar or other seeker options so when you launch the missile it can look for its target using a sensor and find and hit its target on its own.

    From a helicopter the range is supposed to be 20-25km which means a Ka-52M or Mi-28NM could spot tanks moving on their radar and launch a Hermes to hit one with the helicopter or another platform or drone closer to the target marking it with a laser or perhaps the helicopter could mark the target using its own radar.

    They will likely have a few Brimstone missiles they can dissect and look at if they haven't already come up with something.

    The Ground launched version with a 100km plus range will not see its target before launch so might be lofted up high into the air with perhaps a ramjet motor to sustain speed and perhaps accelerate in a dive on the target area, with platforms closer to the target illuminating the target, or perhaps using IIR seeker to look for targets or MMW radar seeker to scan for targets like an ARH AAM would. Or it might just fly to a specific coordinate where a building or bridge might be located.

    While the Hermes missile system stands to be very capable and very potent, working off a multitude of platforms, I still believe there is enough room for other cheaper and simpler systems to work alongside the Hermes and other strike systems.

    Very much so, AFAIK Hermes is new and adds new capabilities and is not replacing anything, so other drones and missile types will still be used too.

    For some targets a Smerch rocket 300mm calibre might make more sense... against armour with sensor fused top attack self forging fragment munitions for instance, or just a cluster munition warhead with HE Frag submunitions for anti personnel use.

    Then of course there are ground and air launched weapons as well.

    >Comparing an actual weapon of war with thousands of hohols killed to a piece of shit that got thousands of hohols killed.

    Interesting how reputations have changed.... M777 and HIMARS and German and European artillery vehicles were super weapons, and Javelin and Spike were going to make Russian armour obsolete... especially without APS systems... reality seems to be different though.

    And Russia has no drones and not enough guided weapons because they don't buy either.... they will run out in a day...

    GunshipDemocracy, thegopnik, Hole and Broski like this post

    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Mon May 29, 2023 5:16 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    I think the Pantsir-SM is already considered operational since December 1, 2022 when I read Pods article on that Pantsir thread. And the Hermes missiles is basically just that but with a slightly bigger sustainer 2nd stage.

    The SA-22 is a command guided SAM with no terminal guidance at all.

    The Hermes missile was going to be based upon it, but they have decided that the terminal stage needs its own propulsion so it can perform manouvers as it approaches the ground target and not slow down too much... the intention is to make it very hard to shoot down.

    That is what is causing the delay, but it is also what will make it a very potent missile.

    The other reason it does not enter service at the same time as the SAM is because the Hermes actually has terminal guidance, so IIR or MMW radar or other seeker options so when you launch the missile it can look for its target using a sensor and find and hit its target on its own.

    From a helicopter the range is supposed to be 20-25km which means a Ka-52M or Mi-28NM could spot tanks moving on their radar and launch a Hermes to hit one with the helicopter or another platform or drone closer to the target marking it with a laser or perhaps the helicopter could mark the target using its own radar.

    They will likely have a few Brimstone missiles they can dissect and look at if they haven't already come up with something.

    The Ground launched version with a 100km plus range will not see its target before launch so might be lofted up high into the air with perhaps a ramjet motor to sustain speed and perhaps accelerate in a dive on the target area, with platforms closer to the target illuminating the target, or perhaps using IIR seeker to look for targets or MMW radar seeker to scan for targets like an ARH AAM would. Or it might just fly to a specific coordinate where a building or bridge might be located.

    While the Hermes missile system stands to be very capable and very potent, working off a multitude of platforms, I still believe there is enough room for other cheaper and simpler systems to work alongside the Hermes and other strike systems.

    Very much so, AFAIK Hermes is new and adds new capabilities and is not replacing anything, so other drones and missile types will still be used too.

    For some targets a Smerch rocket 300mm calibre might make more sense... against armour with sensor fused top attack self forging fragment munitions for instance, or just a cluster munition warhead with HE Frag submunitions for anti personnel use.

    Then  of course there are ground and air launched weapons as well.

    >Comparing an actual weapon of war with thousands of hohols killed to a piece of shit that got thousands of hohols killed.

    Interesting how reputations have changed.... M777 and HIMARS and German and European artillery vehicles were super weapons, and Javelin and Spike were going to make Russian armour obsolete... especially without APS systems... reality seems to be different though.

    And Russia has no drones and not enough guided weapons because they don't buy either.... they will run out in a day...

    I am having a very good feeling the MMW seekers would be based on PICs until those PICs hit a full scale production that offer amazing resolution and accuracy that works 100 times better than hooking up MMW seekers with MMICs. Helicopters and drones would be needed to guide the 100km ground versions, but MMW seekers based on PICs would offer a huge target area scan. The production facilities I heard planned will use 28 nanometer to possibly 3 nanometer chips(which is Taiwan level)
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue May 30, 2023 3:25 am

    Well I think the important point is that they were ready to go and had been tested in Syria and possibly early on in Ukraine but they decided to upgrade them by adding propulsion to the second stage so they can manouver to avoid enemy fire as they are zooming in at their target.

    We don't know if that means a solid rocket booster or a ramjet motor... flying low I suspect they wont bother with a scramjet because it wont need to get much faster than mach 5 or 6, but a small ramjet and a bit of fuel with airscoops means it can accelerate and manouver as it dives down on its target at high speed pulling gs.

    They seem to have invested quite a bit in new AESA radar elements and their new AAMs seem to be getting new AESA radar elements too...

    This will be interesting.

    3nm chips would be too fragile and too easy to burn with EMP weapons...

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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Thu May 02, 2024 9:35 pm

    hearing updates saying coming months from February 2024 source https://t.me/s/RussianArms

    "Hermes" multi-purpose guided missile: - Page 6 Screen99

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