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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8

    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:39 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    Please, at the very least, consider that is came from Russia. Not saying it did, but it is best to look at every side of the scenario.

    Very small chance.. very unlikely.. Russia will not send T-72b3 tanks ,that Ukraine is not supposed to have..
    IF Russia wanted to help will mod Tanks to look like T-80.. or simply send T-72 cheap models that Ukraine have.
    I hate to say that that "small chance" is actually quite big. Kiev isn't smart enough to fake this, and that is something you of all people knows very well!

    Nor does Kiev have the money to fake it.
    Yep, they lack both money and brainpower, what a surprise!
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    Post  TR1 Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:40 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Oh really, let's jog your memory then:

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t2963p495-the-status-of-the-russian-economy-and-its-perceived-oil-dependency

    Start with the top post. Doesn't look so good, does it?


    Yeah, EU of a number of nations vs 1 nation = China.

    BTW:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-02/chart-obama-does-not-want-merkel-see

    Seems EU may need Russian trade afterall lol

    Tack on the next oil/gas deal with China, in the hundreds of billions, may change everything.

    Hundreds of billions spread out over decades.

    No, it won't change shit. China won't be Russia's biggest trading partner for many many years, if ever. Unless trade with Europe totally craps out, which would be devastating. And would probably lead to Putin developing an army of domestic enemies.
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    Post  Vann7 Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:41 am

    Mike E wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    Please, at the very least, consider that is came from Russia. Not saying it did, but it is best to look at every side of the scenario.

    Very small chance.. very unlikely.. Russia will not send T-72b3 tanks ,that Ukraine is not supposed to have..
    IF Russia wanted to help will mod Tanks to look like T-80.. or simply send T-72 cheap models that Ukraine have.
    I hate to say that that "small chance" is actually quite big. Kiev isn't smart enough to fake this, and that is something you of all people knows very well!

    NATO can easily modify a T-72 from the many that exist in baltic states,Georgia ,and others european nations and made it look like the B3.. even if is only in appearance.. very easily.  IF it was a Russian made Tank.. then the RUptly video information is lying then.. i believe is not a Russian tank. for the simple reason that it will have easily by the west to proof Russia was sending hardware.. A Russia intentions are clearly to remain undercover as much as possible. Simple common sense. Another reason why i don't think Putin is a fool , is because NATo spies are everywhere in eastern ukraine fighting with the ukies.. and he will not send technology there ,to a place with many CIA and NATO mercenaries to steal any modern technology so they can study it and learn how to counter it..


    Last edited by Vann7 on Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:53 am; edited 1 time in total
    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:43 am

    TR1 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Oh really, let's jog your memory then:

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t2963p495-the-status-of-the-russian-economy-and-its-perceived-oil-dependency

    Start with the top post. Doesn't look so good, does it?


    Yeah, EU of a number of nations vs 1 nation = China.

    BTW:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-02/chart-obama-does-not-want-merkel-see

    Seems EU may need Russian trade afterall lol

    Tack on the next oil/gas deal with China, in the hundreds of billions, may change everything.

    Hundreds of billions spread out over decades.

    No, it won't change shit. China won't be Russia's biggest trading partner for many many years, if ever. Unless trade with Europe totally craps out, which would be devastating. And would probably lead to Putin developing an army of domestic enemies.

    Highly doubt that.  EU is a mess economically and of EU imports from Russia, is pretty much oil/gas.  Russia on the other hand exports heavy industrial equipment, and other goods to other countries outside of the EU.  If they lose trade with EU, only the oil and gas companies will be hit hard till they can find other partners.  Domestic companies will have to find alternatives to obtain the equipment.  Already, majority of that is coming from China, outside of maybe what can be produced inside the country.  80% of the exports from Russia to EU is oil and gas.  If not more.  Rest is agricultural and other raw materials like metals.  Which will hurt those industries.  Doubt though it will cause a catastrophe besides pissing off some big time oligarches.

    http://atlas.media.mit.edu/profile/country/rus/


    Last edited by sepheronx on Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:44 am; edited 1 time in total
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:43 am

    LOL yep.

    Undercover? They sent T-64s in DAYLIGHT across Russia.

    Of course you have zero backup for any of your nutty theories Van, meanwhile the rest of the sane universe can put two and two together.

    No surprise that the rebels suddenly start kicking the Ukranian armies ass on all fronts, and TOTALLY MYSTERIOUS NON -RUSSIAN weapons are appearing all over the place.
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    Post  sepheronx Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:46 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    Please, at the very least, consider that is came from Russia. Not saying it did, but it is best to look at every side of the scenario.

    Very small chance.. very unlikely.. Russia will not send T-72b3 tanks ,that Ukraine is not supposed to have..
    IF Russia wanted to help will mod Tanks to look like T-80.. or simply send T-72 cheap models that Ukraine have.
    I hate to say that that "small chance" is actually quite big. Kiev isn't smart enough to fake this, and that is something you of all people knows very well!

    NATO can easily very easily modify a T-72 from the many that exist if europe that looks like a B3.. even if is only in appearance.. very easily.  IF it was a Russian made Tank.. then the RUptly video information is lying then.. i believe is not a Russian tank. for the simple reason that it will have easily by the west to proof Russia was sending hardware.. A Russia intentions are clearly to remain undercover as much as possible. Simple common sense.

    NATO could. But I doubt they would be able to do that, and cover it up as well. Unless they did it in a small amount of time, which is questionable at best.
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    Post  Mike E Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:49 am

    Very unlikely Vann7, I get what you're getting at but not everything is a conspiracy...
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:00 am

    TR1 wrote:Yes, I am. The willful ignorance and stupidity displayed by many members in this thread is mind-numbing.

    Yet you keep coming back:


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    Post  TR1 Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:01 am

    Yes the potential for comedic effect in this thread is too much to ignore.

    It is like Pavlov's dogs: the (foreign) Russia strong brigade comes in seconds to deny any claims of Russian involvement.
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    Post  Mike E Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:02 am

    TR1 wrote:Yes the potential for comedic effect in this thread is too much to ignore.

    It is like Pavlov's dogs: the (foreign) Russia strong brigade comes in seconds to deny any claims of Russian involvement.
    Yeah, it is always funny to watch the trolls come and attack those with their own opinions.
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    Post  Vann7 Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:03 am

    TR1 wrote:LOL yep.

    Undercover? They sent T-64s in DAYLIGHT across Russia.

    Of course you have zero backup for any of your nutty theories Van, meanwhile the rest of the sane universe can put two and two together.

    No surprise that the rebels suddenly start kicking the Ukranian armies ass on all fronts, and TOTALLY MYSTERIOUS NON -RUSSIAN weapons are appearing all over the place.

    Im not saying that Russia is not helping at all..
    I will not be surprised that Russia have there 5,000 private mercenaries ,veterans retired from Russian army.

    What im saying that is makes Absolutely NO sense .. to send their latest technology.. their latest T-72 with latest reactive armor to Ukraine because..

    1) There are hundreds of NATO private mercenaries in eastern ukraine and could capture the technology..
    So russia will not like their latest technology to be stolen.

    2) It will be very bad for Russian business if the T-72b3 end destroyed everywhere..

    3) the video clearly says Dobass batalion convoy destroyed on the description..that was trying to infiltrate .

    So plenty of reasons to believe is not from Russia.
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    Post  TR1 Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:04 am

    Mike E wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Yes the potential for comedic effect in this thread is too much to ignore.

    It is like Pavlov's dogs: the (foreign) Russia strong brigade comes in seconds to deny any claims of Russian involvement.
    Yeah, it is always funny to watch the trolls come and attack those with their own opinions.

    Opinions based on flimsy or non-existent evidence, or outright crackpot theories, deserve to be treated as such.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:05 am

    TR1 wrote:Yes the potential for comedic effect in this thread is too much to ignore.

    It is like Pavlov's dogs: the (foreign) Russia strong brigade comes in seconds to deny any claims of Russian involvement.

    TR1 and this forum:

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 19 4e20fa631a7514ea60268175f67ec7f2994e6eaae7f6e994cc73e35e57c76746
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:06 am

    So what TR1, if people here respect your opinion, why not respect theirs? - The only reason not to respect your opinion is your recent "forum behavior", and here I agree with you on the B3...
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    Post  TR1 Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:10 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    TR1 wrote:LOL yep.

    Undercover? They sent T-64s in DAYLIGHT across Russia.

    Of course you have zero backup for any of your nutty theories Van, meanwhile the rest of the sane universe can put two and two together.

    No surprise that the rebels suddenly start kicking the Ukranian armies ass on all fronts, and TOTALLY MYSTERIOUS NON -RUSSIAN weapons are appearing all over the place.

    Im not saying that Russia is not helping at all..
    I will not be surprised that Russia have there 5,000 private mercenaries ,veterans retired from Russian army.

    What im saying that is makes Absolutely NO sense .. to send their latest technology.. their latest T-72 with latest reactive armor to Ukraine because..

    1) There are hundreds of NATO private mercenaries in eastern ukraine and could capture the technology..
    So russia will not like their latest technology to be stolen.

    2) It will be very bad for Russian business if the  T-72b3 end destroyed everywhere..

    3) the video clearly says Dobass batalion convoy destroyed on the description..that was trying to infiltrate  .

    So plenty of reasons to believe is not from Russia.

    Good, we are at least finally making progress. You admit the obvious, Russia has, and has been, fueling arms into the conflict zone.
    As for not making sense, first of all, it has K-5 ERA. That is late Cold War ERA, nothing "latest" about it. Why they sent it instead of T-72Bs (they have sent many of those as well Smile ) , please adress your concerns to the Russian government.

    1.) Yes yes, NATO mercenaries whatever. Just like in Georgia right Wink . Anwyays, T-72B3 is in no universe Russia's latest technology. It would be very embarrassing if it was. It is a cheap modernization. Not even the best one Russia can, or has made. Rogatka say hi.
    2.) They don't care. T-72B3 is not some hot new export item. As far as most are concerned, just some more T-72s blowing up. Not like the B3 is supposed to be better in the protection department.
    3.) I already adressed this. The Uks captured T-72s. They were later ambushed and destroyed. Of course it is also possible the rebel one was lost in the fighting, but it seems this one was manned by Donbass guys when hit.

    Plenty of reasons why there is only one obvious answer to this B3 "puzzle".
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    Post  Vann7 Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:11 am

    TR1 wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Yes the potential for comedic effect in this thread is too much to ignore.

    It is like Pavlov's dogs: the (foreign) Russia strong brigade comes in seconds to deny any claims of Russian involvement.
    Yeah, it is always funny to watch the trolls come and attack those with their own opinions.

    Opinions based on flimsy or non-existent evidence, or outright crackpot theories, deserve to be treated as such.


    all right then were is the rest of the tank? Very Happy

    I only saw one turret? The rest of the tank vaporized in air? Laughing
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    Post  Vann7 Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:12 am

    TR1 wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Yes the potential for comedic effect in this thread is too much to ignore.

    It is like Pavlov's dogs: the (foreign) Russia strong brigade comes in seconds to deny any claims of Russian involvement.
    Yeah, it is always funny to watch the trolls come and attack those with their own opinions.

    Opinions based on flimsy or non-existent evidence, or outright crackpot theories, deserve to be treated as such.


    all right then were is the rest of the tank? Very Happy

    I only saw one turret? The rest of the tank vaporized in air? Laughing
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    Post  TR1 Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:12 am

    Mike E wrote:So what TR1, if people here respect your opinion, why not respect theirs? - The only reason not to respect your opinion is your recent "forum behavior", and here I agree with you on the B3...

    Given the kind of attacks the posters in this thread carried out on me whenever I posted anything contrary to their (once again, foreign) Russia strong obsessive views regarding the conflict, I have decided pleasantries are better not wasted on this thread.
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    Post  sepheronx Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:12 am

    I recall the guy with the Georgian flag being captured. What ever happened to him?
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    Post  Mike E Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:12 am

    Turrets often separate from the body if hit correctly, especially if the magazine erupted.
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    Post  TR1 Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:13 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Yes the potential for comedic effect in this thread is too much to ignore.

    It is like Pavlov's dogs: the (foreign) Russia strong brigade comes in seconds to deny any claims of Russian involvement.
    Yeah, it is always funny to watch the trolls come and attack those with their own opinions.

    Opinions based on flimsy or non-existent evidence, or outright crackpot theories, deserve to be treated as such.


    all right then were is the rest of the tank? Very Happy

    I only saw one turret? The rest of the tank vaporized in air? Laughing


    You know tanks can detonate? Right? The detonation has thrown the turret clear of the tank in many cases, and completely ripped the hull apart in others. In Ossetia a T-72 went up, the hull was COMPLETELY ripped to pieces, and the turret flew like 50 feet away and went through the ceiling of a concrete building.

    If the video panned, I am sure we would see the results of the detonation. Either way....the turret is there, and it is obvious what it came from.


    Last edited by TR1 on Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:14 am; edited 1 time in total
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:14 am

    TR1 wrote:
    Mike E wrote:So what TR1, if people here respect your opinion, why not respect theirs? - The only reason not to respect your opinion is your recent "forum behavior", and here I agree with you on the B3...

    Given the kind of attacks the posters in this thread carried out on me whenever I posted anything contrary to their (once again, foreign) Russia strong obsessive views regarding the conflict, I have decided pleasantries are better not wasted on this thread.
    You seriously don't understand why you're "attacked"? It sure as heck isn't your opinion... 

    At the very least your last comment was an "improvement".
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    Post  TR1 Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:16 am

    Mike E wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    Mike E wrote:So what TR1, if people here respect your opinion, why not respect theirs? - The only reason not to respect your opinion is your recent "forum behavior", and here I agree with you on the B3...

    Given the kind of attacks the posters in this thread carried out on me whenever I posted anything contrary to their (once again, foreign) Russia strong obsessive views regarding the conflict, I have decided pleasantries are better not wasted on this thread.
    You seriously don't understand why you're "attacked"? It sure as heck isn't your opinion... 

    At the very least your last comment was an "improvement".

    I know why I am. Because this thread is a circlejerk of Russia-strong tards for the most part.

    Any dissension from the crack pot theories put forward here, to any criticism of Russia, is viscous attacked (idiotically to may I add).

    But I am beyond caring about that. I just like watching certain people squirm when it comes to this tank issue.
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    Post  TR1 Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:16 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Yes the potential for comedic effect in this thread is too much to ignore.

    It is like Pavlov's dogs: the (foreign) Russia strong brigade comes in seconds to deny any claims of Russian involvement.

    TR1 and this forum:

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 19 4e20fa631a7514ea60268175f67ec7f2994e6eaae7f6e994cc73e35e57c76746

    Oh ho ho! The gay jokes again!

    The level of mancrush here that some have towards the Botox Queen is definitely worthy of a gay romantic comedy though.


    Last edited by TR1 on Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Vann7 Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:17 am

    Mike E wrote:Turrets often separate from the body if hit correctly, especially if the magazine erupted.

    Not convinced yet..
    You don't your best hardware (in this case best T-72) to a warzone ,and get it destroyed
    so that later it have a very bad negative image.. It looks to me Kiev/NATO modded a T-72 , to look like a
    T-72b3 ,to provoke a show about the quality of Russian hardware. This is the same reason.. Why you will never see
    Moder Nato tanks supplied to kiev.. Because will be catastrophic bad image and for the future sales of their tanks if Novorosiya fighters lose a hundred of them in combat


    Last edited by Vann7 on Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:21 am; edited 1 time in total

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