Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+88
Scorpius
caveat emptor
Krepost
Arrow
nomadski
limb
ATLASCUB
Azi
sundoesntrise
TMA1
ALAMO
Mindstorm
Sujoy
nero
Yugo90
Backman
Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E
elconquistador
lyle6
SeigSoloyvov
Hole
miketheterrible
JohninMK
ultimatewarrior
kvs
Isos
arpakola
Grazneyar
Werewolf
Odin of Ossetia
par far
AlfaT8
d_taddei2
medo
KiloGolf
higurashihougi
NationalRus
Rodinazombie
Zivo
Kadmos45
Armenian
SturmGuard
mack8
Neutrality
OminousSpudd
Dima
franco
Godric
marat
Akula971
Vann7
ExBeobachter1987
Svyatoslavich
zorobabel
VladimirSahin
PapaDragon
TheGeorgian
KoTeMoRe
calm
Walther von Oldenburg
Khepesh
Project Canada
max steel
HUNTER VZLA
Heartbeer
Kyo
T055
George1
Morpheus Eberhardt
Hannibal Barca
POKL
magnumcromagnon
TR1
Regular
zg18
etaepsilonk
flamming_python
AttilaA
Cyberspec
TheArmenian
GarryB
Admin
Ogannisyan8887
Viktor
sepheronx
Turk1
DoubleEagle
Russian Patriot
92 posters

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 34911
    Points : 35429
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  GarryB Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:22 pm

    This is all about Armenia... if they don't want Russian or CSTO help there is not a lot Russia or the CSTO can really do... ironically it is like Serbia thinking they can suck up to the west so that Kosovo never broke off...

    Seems to not be working however, and if the US is not going to fight Azerbaijan and let them take the territory they want I am not sure how the Armenians can blame Russia.

    This is their own history and culture they are selling, but what can Russia or Iran do about it if Armenia thinks the US and the west will be more help than Moscow... I mean looking at what has happened in Syria and Libya and Georgia and the Ukraine and Venezuela... all I can guess is that this Armenian leader thinks he can cause a mess, blame it all on Russia and run away to some third country with lots and lots of CIA money, and the rich and powerful in the country are supporting him... presumably wanting to play the same game.

    Did they not notice how impotent the US was in Georgia?

    You can lead a horse to water...

    kvs, Rodion_Romanovic, Hole and Broski like this post

    thegopnik
    thegopnik


    Posts : 1209
    Points : 1215
    Join date : 2017-09-20

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  thegopnik Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:45 pm

    After ukraine I hope they take care of the Azeris next.

    (18+) Armenian civilian beheaded alive by Azerbaijani forces as soldiers cheer and clap - AzeriWarCrimes.ORG

    (18+) Azerbaijani special forces soldier pins down an old Armenian man and proceeds to cut his head - AzeriWarCrimes.ORG

    (18+) The staged "diversion" of Hadrut & Execution of Armenian captives by Azerbaijani Armed Forces - AzeriWarCrimes.ORG

    (18+) Battering and bullying of Armenian captives by Azerbaijani soldiers - AzeriWarCrimes.ORG

    (18+) Desecration of female Armenian soldier by Azerbaijani troops - AzeriWarCrimes.ORG
    Broski
    Broski


    Posts : 466
    Points : 468
    Join date : 2021-07-12

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  Broski Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:22 pm

    thegopnik wrote:After ukraine I hope they take care of the Azeris next.

    (18+) Armenian civilian beheaded alive by Azerbaijani forces as soldiers cheer and clap - AzeriWarCrimes.ORG

    (18+) Azerbaijani special forces soldier pins down an old Armenian man and proceeds to cut his head - AzeriWarCrimes.ORG

    (18+) The staged "diversion" of Hadrut & Execution of Armenian captives by Azerbaijani Armed Forces - AzeriWarCrimes.ORG

    (18+) Battering and bullying of Armenian captives by Azerbaijani soldiers - AzeriWarCrimes.ORG

    (18+) Desecration of female Armenian soldier by Azerbaijani troops - AzeriWarCrimes.ORG
    Armenia is free to defend itself from Azeri aggression any time they damn well please, but strangely enough they never do, just like in Nagorno-Karabakh. Instead, their shitty, pro-NATO, anti-Russian leadership constantly tries to lure Russia into a conflict with Azerbaijan.

    sepheronx and kvs like this post

    TMA1
    TMA1


    Posts : 755
    Points : 759
    Join date : 2020-11-30

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  TMA1 Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:44 am

    Azeris and Caucasus muslims in general are a strange lot. Always have been. No diss towards muslims either they have always been brutal even before they were converted. Saint Bartholomew went to preach to the scythians and caucasus regions. Was flayed alive.

    thegopnik likes this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 34911
    Points : 35429
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  GarryB Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:21 am

    Armenia is free to defend itself from Azeri aggression any time they damn well please, but strangely enough they never do, just like in Nagorno-Karabakh. Instead, their shitty, pro-NATO, anti-Russian leadership constantly tries to lure Russia into a conflict with Azerbaijan.

    And strangely it is always Putins fault...

    Azeris and Caucasus muslims in general are a strange lot. Always have been. No diss towards muslims either they have always been brutal even before they were converted. Saint Bartholomew went to preach to the scythians and caucasus regions. Was flayed alive.

    What christians have done to the third world to destroy culture and religion around the world... it is hard to blame the muslims for being brutal... just look at the crusades... as usual the europeans lead the way in brutality and violence.
    TMA1
    TMA1


    Posts : 755
    Points : 759
    Join date : 2020-11-30

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  TMA1 Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:36 am

    As I said it isnt about Islam they are just spooky people. Mountain people are often like that. Here in washington state in the cascades we have "upriver folk" who are strange too. No racism or anti Muslim feelings implied. In fact the Persian muslims wrote all kinds of works about the people of gog and magog. Never very civilized.

    About your statements on Christianity I wont debate with you as I dont want to get in a war of words with a moderator ;-)

    GarryB likes this post

    thegopnik
    thegopnik


    Posts : 1209
    Points : 1215
    Join date : 2017-09-20

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  thegopnik Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:22 pm

    Armenian
    Armenian


    Posts : 34
    Points : 34
    Join date : 2016-02-20

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  Armenian Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:28 pm

    Armenia is the only remaining country Russia has military base and influance. Only country that sees Russia not as foe but a friend.

    This was of course the case until 2020 when entire country realized the fact that Putin sold Armenia to Turks. It was certainly a big shock as Armenians had confidence that Russia would never allow a war in the region. It was of surely stupid to think that as countries have their interests and things never stay the same in the dynamic world.

    I remember Putin’s speech when he was saying that it’s not Armenia’s proper that got attacked, if it was Russia will defend Armenia. 2 years later Armsnia got invaded by the same Azerbaijan, Russia didn’t even condemned the attack. CSTO receiving formal request of help, didn’t do a damn thing and just sent some commender for monitoring Smile it was like having fun with Armenians, people that lost 207 of their kids in 2 days against Turkish drones.

    Outcome? Russia made their decision to stand with Turkish block and betrayed an entire nation. I would understand it if this was in Russia’s interest but I just have the impression that Turks played Putin, again.

    Now US found the chance to take the region from Russia for good. Armenia knowing that Russia is not willing to protect them(even though there is a mutual defence pact) now is forced to side with the US. Recent pools shows that Armenians support to Russia decresed from %80 to %30. So people will be defiantly fine to have security instead of humiliation.

    Yes Pashinyan isn’t reliable figure, he is not Pro-American or Pro-NATO, he is just and idiot who Armenians trusted that can deal with corruption. Not liking him doens’t mean that it’s fine to punish an entire country.

    Losing the last remaining ally? For what, for two-faced Turks that always backstabbed Russia?

    Good job Putin and kudos to everyone who didn’t give the slightest damn to Armenia which stood with Russia even during the Syrian conflict. Russia is great for turning their friends into their enemies. That I can give.

    flamming_python likes this post

    lancelot and Broski dislike this post

    franco
    franco


    Posts : 5588
    Points : 5618
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  franco Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:46 pm

    Armenian wrote:Armenia is the only remaining country Russia has military base and influance. Only country that sees Russia not as foe but a friend.

    This was of course the case until 2020 when entire country realized the fact that Putin sold Armenia to Turks. It was certainly a big shock as Armenians had confidence that Russia would never allow a war in the region. It was of surely stupid to think that as countries have their interests and things never stay the same in the dynamic world.

    I remember Putin’s speech when he was saying that it’s not Armenia’s proper that got attacked, if it was Russia will defend Armenia. 2 years later Armsnia got invaded by the same Azerbaijan, Russia didn’t even condemned the attack. CSTO receiving formal request of help, didn’t do a damn thing and just sent some commender for monitoring Smile it was like having fun with Armenians, people that lost 207 of their kids in 2 days against Turkish drones.

    Outcome? Russia made their decision to stand with Turkish block and betrayed an entire nation. I would understand it if this was in Russia’s interest but I just have the impression that Turks played Putin, again.

    Now US found the chance to take the region from Russia for good. Armenia knowing that Russia is not willing to protect them(even though there is a mutual defence pact) now is forced to side with the US. Recent pools shows that Armenians support to Russia decresed from %80 to %30. So people will be defiantly fine to have security instead of humiliation.

    Yes Pashinyan isn’t reliable figure, he is not Pro-American or Pro-NATO, he is just and idiot who Armenians trusted that can deal with corruption. Not liking him doens’t mean that it’s fine to punish an entire country.

    Losing the last remaining ally? For what, for two-faced Turks that always backstabbed Russia?

    Good job Putin and kudos to everyone who didn’t give the slightest damn to Armenia which stood with Russia even during the Syrian conflict. Russia is great for turning their friends into their enemies. That I can give.

    So did the US defend you in 2020. Pashinyan went to them first before having to run back to Putin.

    sepheronx, Hole, lancelot and Broski like this post

    Armenian
    Armenian


    Posts : 34
    Points : 34
    Join date : 2016-02-20

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  Armenian Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:50 pm

    franco wrote:
    Armenian wrote:Armenia is the only remaining country Russia has military base and influance. Only country that sees Russia not as foe but a friend.

    This was of course the case until 2020 when entire country realized the fact that Putin sold Armenia to Turks. It was certainly a big shock as Armenians had confidence that Russia would never allow a war in the region. It was of surely stupid to think that as countries have their interests and things never stay the same in the dynamic world.

    I remember Putin’s speech when he was saying that it’s not Armenia’s proper that got attacked, if it was Russia will defend Armenia. 2 years later Armsnia got invaded by the same Azerbaijan, Russia didn’t even condemned the attack. CSTO receiving formal request of help, didn’t do a damn thing and just sent some commender for monitoring Smile it was like having fun with Armenians, people that lost 207 of their kids in 2 days against Turkish drones.

    Outcome? Russia made their decision to stand with Turkish block and betrayed an entire nation. I would understand it if this was in Russia’s interest but I just have the impression that Turks played Putin, again.

    Now US found the chance to take the region from Russia for good. Armenia knowing that Russia is not willing to protect them(even though there is a mutual defence pact) now is forced to side with the US. Recent pools shows that Armenians support to Russia decresed from %80 to %30. So people will be defiantly fine to have security instead of humiliation.

    Yes Pashinyan isn’t reliable figure, he is not Pro-American or Pro-NATO, he is just and idiot who Armenians trusted that can deal with corruption. Not liking him doens’t mean that it’s fine to punish an entire country.

    Losing the last remaining ally? For what, for two-faced Turks that always backstabbed Russia?

    Good job Putin and kudos to everyone who didn’t give the slightest damn to Armenia which stood with Russia even during the Syrian conflict. Russia is great for turning their friends into their enemies. That I can give.

    So did the US defend you in 2020. Pashinyan went to them first before having to run back to Putin.

    The US isn’t standing as the guarantor of Armenia’s security, Russia is. Why would they do anything if Armenia is the formal ally of Russia and is in CSTO? Having hard time to understand the logic, sorry.
    franco
    franco


    Posts : 5588
    Points : 5618
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  franco Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:26 am

    My understanding of the defense pact was that Russia did not recognize Karabakh as being part of Armenia? Correct me if I'm wrong.
    sepheronx
    sepheronx


    Posts : 7876
    Points : 8142
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 33
    Location : Canada

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  sepheronx Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:06 am

    Armenian wrote:
    franco wrote:
    Armenian wrote:Armenia is the only remaining country Russia has military base and influance. Only country that sees Russia not as foe but a friend.

    This was of course the case until 2020 when entire country realized the fact that Putin sold Armenia to Turks. It was certainly a big shock as Armenians had confidence that Russia would never allow a war in the region. It was of surely stupid to think that as countries have their interests and things never stay the same in the dynamic world.

    I remember Putin’s speech when he was saying that it’s not Armenia’s proper that got attacked, if it was Russia will defend Armenia. 2 years later Armsnia got invaded by the same Azerbaijan, Russia didn’t even condemned the attack. CSTO receiving formal request of help, didn’t do a damn thing and just sent some commender for monitoring Smile it was like having fun with Armenians, people that lost 207 of their kids in 2 days against Turkish drones.

    Outcome? Russia made their decision to stand with Turkish block and betrayed an entire nation. I would understand it if this was in Russia’s interest but I just have the impression that Turks played Putin, again.

    Now US found the chance to take the region from Russia for good. Armenia knowing that Russia is not willing to protect them(even though there is a mutual defence pact) now is forced to side with the US. Recent pools shows that Armenians support to Russia decresed from %80 to %30. So people will be defiantly fine to have security instead of humiliation.

    Yes Pashinyan isn’t reliable figure, he is not Pro-American or Pro-NATO, he is just and idiot who Armenians trusted that can deal with corruption. Not liking him doens’t mean that it’s fine to punish an entire country.

    Losing the last remaining ally? For what, for two-faced Turks that always backstabbed Russia?

    Good job Putin and kudos to everyone who didn’t give the slightest damn to Armenia which stood with Russia even during the Syrian conflict. Russia is great for turning their friends into their enemies. That I can give.

    So did the US defend you in 2020. Pashinyan went to them first before having to run back to Putin.

    The US isn’t standing as the guarantor of Armenia’s security, Russia is. Why would they do anything if Armenia is the formal ally of Russia and is in CSTO? Having hard time to understand the logic, sorry.

    Except there are clear rules that even Pashinyan admitted he didn't follow through - 1 being that he has to make the official request to which he did much long after the fact.

    And yes, Pashinyan ran to the US first actually, even though he is part of the CSTO.  But that's his decision.

    The simple fact is, there is no way US can have any footprint in Armenia.  So Armenians can be as stupid as they want because Pashinyan fucked over the country and did nothing (Armenian army doesn't do shit and leaves their AD systems in barns for crying out loud) and think US will actually help them.  They can't get through Russia to assist. Can't get through Iran. Turkey won't be allowing US buildup in Armenia as it will just throw Azerbaijan entirely into Russian arms afterwards and Georgia is landlocked and can't get through.

    So, if Armenians are smart, pray tell how they will get the support and from where?

    As someone else said - the fact Armenians are letting their own troops die off and not overthrow pashinyan, and fact he sits there gives indication they are really pushing hard for Russia to actually start the war with Azerbaijan and not do anything themselves. I wonder who could be pulling his strings? (This is obvious of course).

    We seen how Russia acts when official requests are made. Syria is an example.  Even Ukraine now.

    Edit: I know Armenians have been asleep for the last decade, but do they really, truly think the US will actually help them and abandon both Azerbaijan (they need Azeri oil now more than ever) and Turkey who is still NATO?  If Armenians really, truly think the US will choose then over the others, especially when geographically they can't do anything for them, then all I can say is Armenia is gonna have a real rude awakening. But I think they will at that point lose majority of its territory by then.

    kvs, Hole, lancelot and Broski like this post

    Broski
    Broski


    Posts : 466
    Points : 468
    Join date : 2021-07-12

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  Broski Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:26 am

    franco wrote:My understanding of the defense pact was that Russia did not recognize Karabakh as being part of Armenia? Correct me if I'm wrong.
    It's even worse than that, Armenia doesn't recognize Nagorno-Karabakh as a part of its own territory but for some strange reason, they expected Russia to fight Azerbaijan for it? I hope to God Armenia leaves the CTSO and kicks out Russia so Turkey can finish them off, one less problem for Putin.

    Hole likes this post

    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 13617
    Points : 13762
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Turdope's Kanada

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  kvs Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:31 am

    Broski wrote:
    franco wrote:My understanding of the defense pact was that Russia did not recognize Karabakh as being part of Armenia? Correct me if I'm wrong.
    It's even worse than that, Armenia doesn't recognize Nagorno-Karabakh as a part of its own territory but for some strange reason, they expected Russia to fight Azerbaijan for it? I hope to God Armenia leaves the CTSO and kicks out Russia so Turkey can finish them off, one less problem for Putin.

    I don't think Armenians deserve this thanks to the stooge regime they have in power. But if they pull a Georgia and wallow in Russia
    hate, well then, let Uncle Swineshit take care of their "security". Recall that Armenia voted overwhelmingly (over 95%) for the breakup
    of the USSR and there were Armenian terror bombings in Moscow in the late 1970s.

    sepheronx, Hole and Broski like this post

    caveat emptor
    caveat emptor


    Posts : 1288
    Points : 1290
    Join date : 2022-02-02
    Location : Murrica

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  caveat emptor Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:29 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    The simple fact is, there is no way US can have any footprint in Armenia.  So Armenians can be as stupid as they want because Pashinyan fucked over the country and did nothing (Armenian army doesn't do shit and leaves their AD systems in barns for crying out loud) and think US will actually help them.  They can't get through Russia to assist. Can't get through Iran. Turkey won't be allowing US buildup in Armenia as it will just throw Azerbaijan entirely into Russian arms afterwards and Georgia is landlocked and can't get through.
    Georgia is not landlocked as it has access to Black Sea.

    On the other hand, i don't believe that US cares much about Armenia, as its own interests are better aligned with Turkey, because of NATO and because it is good for them if Turkey continues to strengthen its influence in Azerbaijan and stans in Central Asia as a counter to Russian influence.
    Pelosi visit was just a PR stunt before November elections. There is a very powerful Armenian diaspora in California.
    sepheronx
    sepheronx


    Posts : 7876
    Points : 8142
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 33
    Location : Canada

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  sepheronx Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:31 am

    Yes, I forgot they didn't lose entire black sea coast. But yeah, regardless Turkey would block what they could.

    It isn't so much Americans not giving a complete crap about Armenia. It's Armenians who care about the American influence in their country.
    thegopnik
    thegopnik


    Posts : 1209
    Points : 1215
    Join date : 2017-09-20

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  thegopnik Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:53 am

    When is Armenias next election?
    ATLASCUB
    ATLASCUB


    Posts : 1161
    Points : 1171
    Join date : 2017-02-13

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  ATLASCUB Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:00 am

    Armenian wrote:

    Yes Pashinyan isn’t reliable figure, he is not Pro-American or Pro-NATO, he is just and idiot who Armenians trusted that can deal with corruption. Not liking him doens’t mean that it’s fine to punish an entire country.


    lol1 lol1 He represents an elite faction that is very much pro-Western. The corruption fighter candidate profile is tailor made in Langley and exported in the form of "promising leaders" worldwide aka assets. It's literally established script.

    As another user already said, that man is Judas personified, a modern, walking, breathing version of it... first to his own people, doing the bidding of a corrupt, treasonous elite. It's amusingly ironic if it weren't tragic, for Armenians.

    That is not to say criticisms on Russia's ability to be a security guarantor aren't warranted....... they're in a million ways. Way too many tragedies, recent ones at that to count - they're not the empire clearly but a distant tier below. Thus the temptation of certain elite cliques to wish to upgrade to strategic relations with the best there is in current times (Anglo-allegiance) - not just for security, but for economic reasons mainly. With that said, adults in the room are needed to realize simple geographical and geopolitical realities trump the thirst of greed in a fairy tale chase of being the next Poland or South Korea. So if your main strategic ally sees the same old script being repeated in Armenia with Pashinyan rising to power, they won't take kindly the fact that the elite faction behind the clown is flirting, strategizing and even conspiring with their main geopolitical foe..... specially if they suspect that said elite faction is even willing to play into strategic plays of their main geopolitical foe to trap them. The obvious main failure of your strategic ally is allowing a clown like Pashinyan to take power (in a way similar to the maidan), or not disposing of him when they had the chance (and they had a chance, I would say twice now).

    lancelot likes this post

    Armenian
    Armenian


    Posts : 34
    Points : 34
    Join date : 2016-02-20

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  Armenian Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:58 am

    Broski wrote:
    franco wrote:My understanding of the defense pact was that Russia did not recognize Karabakh as being part of Armenia? Correct me if I'm wrong.
    It's even worse than that, Armenia doesn't recognize Nagorno-Karabakh as a part of its own territory but for some strange reason, they expected Russia to fight Azerbaijan for it? I hope to God Armenia leaves the CTSO and kicks out Russia so Turkey can finish them off, one less problem for Putin.

    Just excuses. We all know that the war couldn’t have started if Putin didn’t give his OK for it.

    It’s funny when I am seeing staff about NKR not being part of Armenia and points on why Russia couldn't intervene.

    Are you all aware that Armenia’s PROPER got invided by Azerbaijan just about 2 weeks ago? Are you aware that Azeris killed more than 200 Armenian soldiers, 3 civilians, got 7.5 km deep into Armenia’s sovereign territory?

    According to the defense pact signed in 1997 Russia had to intervene and protect Armenia. What happened? After Armenia’s formal request Russia just ignored and didn’t even condemn Azeris attack Smile

    How do you exactly expect Armenia to relly on Russia after all of this? No one gives a damn about the US here, people Armenia were pro-Russian, even maybe more than Russians themselves today.

    What left is just the feeling of betrayal and you can thank to Putin for that.

    lancelot and Broski dislike this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 3495
    Points : 3497
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  ALAMO Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:43 am

    Armenian wrote:
    How do you exactly expect Armenia to relly on Russia after all of this? No one gives a damn about the US here, people Armenia were pro-Russian, even maybe more than Russians themselves today.
    What left is just the feeling of betrayal and you can thank to Putin for that.

    Yeah, we all need a good stand-up from time to time, so that applies I guess.
    You are mentioning the same Armenia, that causes irrevocable damage to its allied status for the last 10 years or so?
    With several "revolutions", civil unrest, and threats how about they will leave the collective structures?
    Ruled by a guy, who claims article 4th, while calling Emmanuel? Laughing
    Azeris are a much more reliable partner for Russkie like always. They just do business, can be persuaded to anything that brings mutual benefits, and don't cry like babies.
    Play stupid games, and gain stupid prizes. It is all yours.

    kvs, Hole, lancelot and Broski like this post

    Armenian
    Armenian


    Posts : 34
    Points : 34
    Join date : 2016-02-20

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  Armenian Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:41 am

    ALAMO wrote:
    Armenian wrote:
    How do you exactly expect Armenia to relly on Russia after all of this? No one gives a damn about the US here, people Armenia were pro-Russian, even maybe more than Russians themselves today.
    What left is just the feeling of betrayal and you can thank to Putin for that.

    Yeah, we all need a good stand-up from time to time, so that applies I guess.
    You are mentioning the same Armenia, that causes irrevocable damage to its allied status for the last 10 years or so?
    With several "revolutions", civil unrest, and threats how about they will leave the collective structures?
    Ruled by a guy, who claims article 4th, while calling Emmanuel? Laughing
    Azeris are a much more reliable partner for Russkie like always. They just do business, can be persuaded to anything that brings mutual benefits, and don't cry like babies.
    Play stupid games, and gain stupid prizes. It is all yours.

    Of course Azeris are much more reliable partners for Russia. Asking Russia to leave their bases in their country, supporting Turkey when they shot down Turkish jet, shutting down Russian helicopters, signing gas agreement with EU to replace Russia when Ukraine war continues.

    On the other had what Armenia did? Supported Russia for their war against Georgia, destroyed their relations with Georgians, Supported Russia against Ukraine, vetoed almost all UN resolutions until 2020, became the enemy of Ukraine. Participated in the Syrian confict to support Russia, became target for the west. Sent their troops to CSTO’s Kazakhistan mission while backstabbed from thr same organistion.

    I used to be a pro-Russian person my self but seeing such comments here makes me just realize how stupid we all were Smile we just had to behave like Turks as this is how things work apparently.

    flamming_python likes this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 3495
    Points : 3497
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  ALAMO Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:54 am

    Now you are trying to turn on some emotions, that I give a shit about.
    Having a business partner from Armenia and Azeri, I would pick the second at any moment.
    They have proved to be much more reliable multiple times.
    Russkie finally gets the point, that emotions are not the best advice, and you can chant about a brotherly nation as long as you want. If there will be no hard evidence of it, you will be just flushed down the toilet and replaced.

    kvs, Hole and Broski like this post

    Broski
    Broski


    Posts : 466
    Points : 468
    Join date : 2021-07-12

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  Broski Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:00 am

    Armenian wrote:Just excuses. We all know that the war couldn’t have started if Putin didn’t give his OK for it.
    I didn't know that Putin was the President of Azerbaijan and Turkey but, ok.

    It’s funny when I am seeing staff about NKR not being part of Armenia and points on why Russia couldn't intervene.
    Maybe you don't understand international law (which Russia respects to a fault), but on what legal basis was Russia supposed to intervene in what essentially was a civil war on Azeri territory?

    Are you all aware that Armenia’s PROPER got invided by Azerbaijan just about 2 weeks ago? Are you aware that Azeris killed more than 200 Armenian soldiers, 3 civilians, got 7.5 km deep into Armenia’s sovereign territory?
    Again, Armenia is free to defend its sovereign territory if it wishes too, there's nothing in the UN Charter that prevents that.

    According to the defense pact signed in 1997 Russia had to intervene and protect Armenia. What happened? 
    Russia & the CTSO intervened using diplomatic means to settle the conflict like normal, civilized people.

    After Armenia’s formal request Russia just ignored and didn’t even condemn Azeris attack Smile
    Aww, did you expect Russia to declare war on Azerbaijan?  lol! 
    Anyone with two braincells to rub together can see what that clown Pashinyan along with his western puppet masters are trying to do.

    How do you exactly expect Armenia to relly on Russia after all of this? 
    They're free to leave the CTSO and kick the "Russian occupiers" out, rely on the US instead or just become a Turkish province. 

    No one gives a damn about the US here, people Armenia were pro-Russian, even maybe more than Russians themselves today.
    Doubt it, otherwise Pashinyan wouldn't be their Prime Minister. Armenia, like most of Russia's "allies" turn to Russia after exhausting all other options.

    What left is just the feeling of betrayal and you can thank to Putin for that.
    Yep, Putin's fault as always. You don't get to use Russia as your attack dog against your enemies while taking marching orders from Washington.

    kvs, Hole and lancelot like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 7800
    Points : 7876
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  flamming_python Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:45 am

    Armenian wrote:Armenia is the only remaining country Russia has military base and influance. Only country that sees Russia not as foe but a friend.

    This was of course the case until 2020 when entire country realized the fact that Putin sold Armenia to Turks. It was certainly a big shock as Armenians had confidence that Russia would never allow a war in the region. It was of surely stupid to think that as countries have their interests and things never stay the same in the dynamic world.

    I remember Putin’s speech when he was saying that it’s not Armenia’s proper that got attacked, if it was Russia will defend Armenia. 2 years later Armsnia got invaded by the same Azerbaijan, Russia didn’t even condemned the attack. CSTO receiving formal request of help, didn’t do a damn thing and just sent some commender for monitoring Smile it was like having fun with Armenians, people that lost 207 of their kids in 2 days against Turkish drones.

    Outcome? Russia made their decision to stand with Turkish block and betrayed an entire nation. I would understand it if this was in Russia’s interest but I just have the impression that Turks played Putin, again.

    Now US found the chance to take the region from Russia for good. Armenia knowing that Russia is not willing to protect them(even though there is a mutual defence pact) now is forced to side with the US. Recent pools shows that Armenians support to Russia decresed from %80 to %30. So people will be defiantly fine to have security instead of humiliation.

    Yes Pashinyan isn’t reliable figure, he is not Pro-American or Pro-NATO, he is just and idiot who Armenians trusted that can deal with corruption. Not liking him doens’t mean that it’s fine to punish an entire country.

    Losing the last remaining ally? For what, for two-faced Turks that always backstabbed Russia?

    Good job Putin and kudos to everyone who didn’t give the slightest damn to Armenia which stood with Russia even during the Syrian conflict. Russia is great for turning their friends into their enemies. That I can give.

    I would agree but Putin has clearly outsourced the protection of Armenia to Iran for the duration of the conflict. That's obvious. And no-one trusts the Turks or Erdogan; just that Russia needs them to keep open airspace and the Bosphorus for the duration of the war in the Ukraine; which they may close if Russia openly moves against Azerbaijan.

    I rather suspect it is in fact the Azeris/Turks who orchestrated this turn of events in Armenia in the first place in coalition with NATO, with the provocations on the border trying to embarrass Moscow. It worked, and as presumably agreed, Armenia is trying to switch to Washington now.

    So now Armenia may be where the Turks want it to be as well. Broken with its former ally and with Washington now trying to act as its guarantor. Only Washington will dump it as soon as the Turks definitively agree to go ahead with a pan-Turkic agenda against Russia and Iran and China in exchange for that sliver of southern Armenian territory that divides Turkey from mainland Azerbaijan. Which the Turks may decide on given the right incentive or if Moscow starts to show weakness against NATO.

    Use your head. Rest of the Armenians too. Emotions and cries of betrayal are for fools in this game. In reality Russia and Armenia are natural allies and that's how it will always be.

    As for Pashinyan, he is indeed an agent of American intelligence and has not gone rogue from them. He can be counted on pry Armenia from its alliance with Russia at any available opportunity and that's what he's doing. After the peace agreement was signed between Pashinyan and Aliev, Pashinyan did not ratify the border as agreed upon with Moscow's mediation. It's possible he has been doing something underhanded to precipitate the latest escalation as well, although my impression as mentioned previously - is that it's Baku's/Ankara's scheme.

    GarryB, franco and lancelot like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 34911
    Points : 35429
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  GarryB Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:47 pm

    Armenia is the only remaining country Russia has military base and influance. Only country that sees Russia not as foe but a friend.

    You say that, but the actions of your leadership seem to suggest something else... they run to the US for help and complain about the assistance they get from Russia despite not helping Russia to help them.

    This was of course the case until 2020 when entire country realized the fact that Putin sold Armenia to Turks. It was certainly a big shock as Armenians had confidence that Russia would never allow a war in the region. It was of surely stupid to think that as countries have their interests and things never stay the same in the dynamic world.

    Putin is prepared to deal with anyone, but that does not mean he would deliberately throw allies under the bus.

    I remember Putin’s speech when he was saying that it’s not Armenia’s proper that got attacked, if it was Russia will defend Armenia. 2 years later Armsnia got invaded by the same Azerbaijan, Russia didn’t even condemned the attack. CSTO receiving formal request of help, didn’t do a damn thing and just sent some commender for monitoring Smile it was like having fun with Armenians, people that lost 207 of their kids in 2 days against Turkish drones.

    What is he supposed to do... if Armenia wont claim NK as their own territory then why should Russia protect them?

    It is not hard and happens quite often these days... organise a referendum in NK to get autonomy or to join Armenia... once the results are in then there is something to work with.

    The current situation would be like some Japanese people on the Kurile islands upset because the locals live by Russian law and want the US to come in and teach these stupid Russians a lesson... well by international law the Kurile islands are Russian... without all the locals voting independence from Russia there is not much the US could do... especially when Japan wont do anything either and they are japanese people in question.

    Outcome? Russia made their decision to stand with Turkish block and betrayed an entire nation. I would understand it if this was in Russia’s interest but I just have the impression that Turks played Putin, again.

    Russia has better relations with Turkey than with any other HATO country and certainly any EU country... they are the only "western" country that is not imposing sanctions on Russia.

    Now US found the chance to take the region from Russia for good. Armenia knowing that Russia is not willing to protect them(even though there is a mutual defence pact) now is forced to side with the US. Recent pools shows that Armenians support to Russia decresed from %80 to %30. So people will be defiantly fine to have security instead of humiliation.

    What security is the US offering you... are they going to bomb Turkey? Or are they interested in a military base on Irans border?

    Yes Pashinyan isn’t reliable figure, he is not Pro-American or Pro-NATO, he is just and idiot who Armenians trusted that can deal with corruption. Not liking him doens’t mean that it’s fine to punish an entire country.

    He is the guy the Russians have to work with and he is essentially thumbing his nose... your nose at Russia by jumping around claiming the sky is falling because the Azeris are attacking but not committing any Armenian forces to help NK.

    Losing the last remaining ally? For what, for two-faced Turks that always backstabbed Russia?

    Good job Putin and kudos to everyone who didn’t give the slightest damn to Armenia which stood with Russia even during the Syrian conflict. Russia is great for turning their friends into their enemies. That I can give.

    Russia will work with anyone... including Pakistan and Saudi Arabia... they even tried to work with the UK and France and Germany and the US, but when the other side is not interested then nothing happens and that seems to be what is happening with Armenias current leadership.

    My understanding of the defense pact was that Russia did not recognize Karabakh as being part of Armenia? Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Nobody seems to recognise NK as part of Armenia including Armenia it seems, which is why it is so tricky to defend them.

    Russia didn't send troops except peace keepers but that appears to be more than Armenia sent officially as Armenian military forces.

    Edit: I know Armenians have been asleep for the last decade, but do they really, truly think the US will actually help them and abandon both Azerbaijan (they need Azeri oil now more than ever) and Turkey who is still NATO?

    That might be part of Americas plan to take down the EU... cutting off Azeri gas supplies and somehow getting Iran involved so Europe can't buy their gas either would be a good way to strangle the EU if that is what they wanted.

    The solution for Armenia is pretty clear and obvious... get a referendum started in the NK region for autonomy and for joining Armenia... if they vote for those then once they join Armenia then the CSTO security guarantees kick in and Russia can protect them properly.

    Why have they not already done this?

    There is a very powerful Armenian diaspora in California.

    Aren't the Kardashians Armenian?

    Could be the next president of the US of A....   Razz

    It isn't so much Americans not giving a complete crap about Armenia. It's Armenians who care about the American influence in their country.

    I am sure the Yanks would love some military bases on the border of Iran... especially if they were Former Russian bases.

    Just excuses. We all know that the war couldn’t have started if Putin didn’t give his OK for it.

    The all powerful puppet master... how did he manage that?

    Are you all aware that Armenia’s PROPER got invided by Azerbaijan just about 2 weeks ago? Are you aware that Azeris killed more than 200 Armenian soldiers, 3 civilians, got 7.5 km deep into Armenia’s sovereign territory?

    So up until two weeks ago everything was just fine and now all of a sudden Putin is to blame for relations and the current situation.

    I hear you, but please understand if I don't agree.


    Last edited by GarryB on Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:28 am; edited 1 time in total

    Broski likes this post


    Sponsored content


    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 31 Empty Re: Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Dec 10, 2022 2:09 am