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Mi-35M in Syria
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1727245.html
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1727245.html
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Mi-24/35M Hinds: News
George1- Posts : 18137
Points : 18640
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
George1- Posts : 18137
Points : 18640
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
Russian Mi-35M helicopters in Syria equipped with on-board defense complex "Vitebsk"
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1839515.html
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1839515.html
Honesroc- Posts : 68
Points : 70
Join date : 2014-11-01
Russian Mi-25 helicopter crew killed in Syria
More:
http://tass.ru/en/politics/887272
More:
http://tass.ru/en/politics/887272
d_taddei2- Posts : 2871
Points : 3047
Join date : 2013-05-11
Location : Scotland Alba
wonder if anyone could answer these questions please.
1) is there any differences in terms of performance (speed/ceiling height etc) and if so what specs are there between Mi-24 compared to Mi-24PN/Mi-35M
2) The armour protection offered on the Mi-24 have read protection from 12.7mm i would have thought it would have been more.
3) The armour protection offered on the Mi-28 have from various sources stating windshield 7.62-12.7mm and others state 12.7-14.5mm, not sure what the rest of the Mi-28 protection is. Read new blades are protected up to 30mm.
4) The armour protection offered on the Ka-52. I would imagine similar to Mi-28.
5) The armour protection offered on the Mi-8AMTSh/Mi-17, read it has armour plating i am only guessing but i would expect up to 12.7mm.
any info would be great read so many conflicting reports and sources and guess this is the best place to get the facts.
1) is there any differences in terms of performance (speed/ceiling height etc) and if so what specs are there between Mi-24 compared to Mi-24PN/Mi-35M
2) The armour protection offered on the Mi-24 have read protection from 12.7mm i would have thought it would have been more.
3) The armour protection offered on the Mi-28 have from various sources stating windshield 7.62-12.7mm and others state 12.7-14.5mm, not sure what the rest of the Mi-28 protection is. Read new blades are protected up to 30mm.
4) The armour protection offered on the Ka-52. I would imagine similar to Mi-28.
5) The armour protection offered on the Mi-8AMTSh/Mi-17, read it has armour plating i am only guessing but i would expect up to 12.7mm.
any info would be great read so many conflicting reports and sources and guess this is the best place to get the facts.
kopyo-21- Posts : 203
Points : 203
Join date : 2013-08-21
Location : Bangkok - Thailand
For the performance, the max speed of Mi-24 (335 km/h) is above of Mi-24PN and Mi-35M3 (~310 km/h) due to the foldable landing gears instead of fixed ones in Mi-24PN and Mi-35M3d_taddei2 wrote:wonder if anyone could answer these questions please.
1) is there any differences in terms of performance (speed/ceiling height etc) and if so what specs are there between Mi-24 compared to Mi-24PN/Mi-35M
2) The armour protection offered on the Mi-24 have read protection from 12.7mm i would have thought it would have been more.
3) The armour protection offered on the Mi-28 have from various sources stating windshield 7.62-12.7mm and others state 12.7-14.5mm, not sure what the rest of the Mi-28 protection is. Read new blades are protected up to 30mm.
4) The armour protection offered on the Ka-52. I would imagine similar to Mi-28.
5) The armour protection offered on the Mi-8AMTSh/Mi-17, read it has armour plating i am only guessing but i would expect up to 12.7mm.
any info would be great read so many conflicting reports and sources and guess this is the best place to get the facts.
Mi-24PNs that RAF is using now have the worst general performance because they were the cheap upgraded version with old steel main rotor and old steel tail rotor beeing kept while the mass weight increased alot due to the IIR/ LRF system in nose and the ballast in tail. Mi-24PN Pilots had very negative feedback about their fly performance.
Actually there were 2 versions of Mi-24P modernization, one was cheap Mi-24PN1 that RAF chose and the other was Mi-24PN2 with new engine VK-2500, new composite main rotor and new composite X-type tail rotor.
GarryB- Posts : 37837
Points : 38341
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
2) The armour protection offered on the Mi-24 have read protection from 12.7mm i would have thought it would have been more.
Actually 12.7mm protection is rather better than most helos... the weight involved in protection from that sort of threat is huge.
The flat windscreens are proof of 23mm cannon rounds, but the bubble canopies are not bullet proof. Most of the shell is titanium and 12.7 resistant if not proof.
Most normal helos you can cup a ball point pen and push it through the metal fuselage... they are light fragile things.
3) The armour protection offered on the Mi-28 have from various sources stating windshield 7.62-12.7mm and others state 12.7-14.5mm, not sure what the rest of the Mi-28 protection is. Read new blades are protected up to 30mm.
The reason behind the small thick windows on the Mi-28 is armour... I have seen videos of 14.5mm HMGs being set up next to the cockpit and fired directly into the glass with no internal flaking or cracks... the side armour should offer better protection than the glass.
You would have serious trouble killing the crew with any small arm short of a rocket launcher.
4) The armour protection offered on the Ka-52. I would imagine similar to Mi-28.
The curved canopies are likely not bullet proof, but the windshields and armoured sides and bottom are probably very well protected.
5) The armour protection offered on the Mi-8AMTSh/Mi-17, read it has armour plating i am only guessing but i would expect up to 12.7mm.
The curved transparancies are likely not armoured... the armour plate on the Hip are the actual armour plates in front of the lower transparancies... actual sheet armour.
The bigger the helo the less armour it can use because the more weight it take to get it to x level of protection...
Protection is improving all the time with lightweight ceramic armour and of course self defence suites and kevlar and aramid liners.
Project Canada- Posts : 662
Points : 663
Join date : 2015-07-20
Location : Canada
George1- Posts : 18137
Points : 18640
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
"Flying BMP" Mi-35M
Special training for the landing was conducted by special forces of the Southern Military District.
Why unusual? The fact is that in practice it has developed so that the main transport tasks are performed by Mi-8 helicopters and its modifications. Mi-8 has a more spacious cargo cabin, wide doorways, ramp and winch for easy loading and unloading of paratroopers and cargo.
However, the task of delivering the landing force can be carried out and traditionally used for the fire support of the Mi-35M, for this purpose the helicopter is equipped with a cargo cabin capable of accommodating 8 fighters in full equipment.
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2711975.html
Special training for the landing was conducted by special forces of the Southern Military District.
Why unusual? The fact is that in practice it has developed so that the main transport tasks are performed by Mi-8 helicopters and its modifications. Mi-8 has a more spacious cargo cabin, wide doorways, ramp and winch for easy loading and unloading of paratroopers and cargo.
However, the task of delivering the landing force can be carried out and traditionally used for the fire support of the Mi-35M, for this purpose the helicopter is equipped with a cargo cabin capable of accommodating 8 fighters in full equipment.
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2711975.html
d_taddei2- Posts : 2871
Points : 3047
Join date : 2013-05-11
Location : Scotland Alba
George1 wrote:"Flying BMP" Mi-35M
Special training for the landing was conducted by special forces of the Southern Military District.
Why unusual? The fact is that in practice it has developed so that the main transport tasks are performed by Mi-8 helicopters and its modifications. Mi-8 has a more spacious cargo cabin, wide doorways, ramp and winch for easy loading and unloading of paratroopers and cargo.
However, the task of delivering the landing force can be carried out and traditionally used for the fire support of the Mi-35M, for this purpose the helicopter is equipped with a cargo cabin capable of accommodating 8 fighters in full equipment.
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2711975.html
to add to this
this is one of the main reasons why i like the Mi-24/35 is that its so versatile, small armoured transport and can be armed for any occasion. And the reason why this will be around for a long time. The backbone of any armed helicopter force. And its proving it too in syria.
https://sputniknews.com/photo/201707061055279830-special-tactical-exercise/
George1- Posts : 18137
Points : 18640
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
Combat helicopter Mi-35M (board number "33 blue") from the air force group of the Russian Air Force in Syria, on the forward side. A picture of Vadim Savitsky.
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2851460.html
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2851460.html
d_taddei2- Posts : 2871
Points : 3047
Join date : 2013-05-11
Location : Scotland Alba
Anyone know the approximate price of Mi-35? I would presume it's cheaper than Mi-28 and Ka-52.
GarryB- Posts : 37837
Points : 38341
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
There would be a price range as there are several alternative setups including some systems etc.
I would check somewhere like that SIPRI organisation that keeps track of international military sales and compare prices...
https://www.sipri.org/databases/armstransfers
I would check somewhere like that SIPRI organisation that keeps track of international military sales and compare prices...
https://www.sipri.org/databases/armstransfers
d_taddei2- Posts : 2871
Points : 3047
Join date : 2013-05-11
Location : Scotland Alba
GarryB wrote:There would be a price range as there are several alternative setups including some systems etc.
I would check somewhere like that SIPRI organisation that keeps track of international military sales and compare prices...
https://www.sipri.org/databases/armstransfers
Unable to download documents with mobile
franco- Posts : 6487
Points : 6513
Join date : 2010-08-18
d_taddei2 wrote:GarryB wrote:There would be a price range as there are several alternative setups including some systems etc.
I would check somewhere like that SIPRI organisation that keeps track of international military sales and compare prices...
https://www.sipri.org/databases/armstransfers
Unable to download documents with mobile
Sold 12 Mil-35M to Brazil for $150 ml US in 2014.
d_taddei2- Posts : 2871
Points : 3047
Join date : 2013-05-11
Location : Scotland Alba
franco wrote:d_taddei2 wrote:GarryB wrote:There would be a price range as there are several alternative setups including some systems etc.
I would check somewhere like that SIPRI organisation that keeps track of international military sales and compare prices...
https://www.sipri.org/databases/armstransfers
Unable to download documents with mobile
Sold 12 Mil-35M to Brazil for $150 ml US in 2014.
12.5MN each that's a good price.
I know that it's likely Mi-24/35 will be in service for some time (2030-2035) but is there plans for something new. Ka-52 and Mi-28 are completely different.
franco- Posts : 6487
Points : 6513
Join date : 2010-08-18
I would be surprised to see any further development of this type past the 35M but who knows?
GarryB- Posts : 37837
Points : 38341
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
12.5MN each that's a good price.
You can't really say that without further investigation...
Does it say the money was only for aircraft?
Did they already have that aircraft in service?
There are lots of potential variables.
Did they buy extra weapons or systems with the purchase of aircraft.... does it include a support package?
Are they all equipped to the same level?
d_taddei2- Posts : 2871
Points : 3047
Join date : 2013-05-11
Location : Scotland Alba
GarryB wrote:12.5MN each that's a good price.
You can't really say that without further investigation...
Does it say the money was only for aircraft?
Did they already have that aircraft in service?
There are lots of potential variables.
Did they buy extra weapons or systems with the purchase of aircraft.... does it include a support package?
Are they all equipped to the same level?
That could be said about any military deal. So what you're say is no point in talking about cost of anything because we as the people will never know full details of any military deal.
But at least an example was given and I thought Mi-35 was going to cost more regardless of variant. And if extra weapons included in the price then that's even better. I can see why sales of mi-24/35 are still selling compared to smaller sales for ka-52 and mi-28
GarryB- Posts : 37837
Points : 38341
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
The problem of variables goes even further... a different customer will get a different price and a different deal...
No disrespect but you should run for office and then approach the Russians formally and ask them for prices....
If any of your political opponents challenge you on it you can just blame Russian hackers....
No disrespect but you should run for office and then approach the Russians formally and ask them for prices....
If any of your political opponents challenge you on it you can just blame Russian hackers....
d_taddei2- Posts : 2871
Points : 3047
Join date : 2013-05-11
Location : Scotland Alba
Is there any plans in pipeline for a replacement of Mi-24/35? Obviously not for sometime yet. Because neither ka-52 or mi-28 are like it. And it's been hugely successful in sales and combat. It's a very iconic and legendary helicopter and I don't see why a new design wouldn't be on the cards
George1- Posts : 18137
Points : 18640
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
Μi-35 is the evolution of original Mi-24 gunship
GarryB- Posts : 37837
Points : 38341
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
There was a design called Mi-40, which was basically the Mi-28 with a troop compartment.
Note the Mi-24/35 is basically an Mi-8 shrunk down to only carry 8 troops and weapons, the Mi-40 is an Mi-28 expanded to carry 8 troops and weapons.
Never left the drawing board AFAIK.
I guess it would be possible to do to the Mi-38 what they did to the Mi-8 to create the Mi-24/35.
I doubt it though.
Note the Mi-24/35 is basically an Mi-8 shrunk down to only carry 8 troops and weapons, the Mi-40 is an Mi-28 expanded to carry 8 troops and weapons.
Never left the drawing board AFAIK.
I guess it would be possible to do to the Mi-38 what they did to the Mi-8 to create the Mi-24/35.
I doubt it though.
KomissarBojanchev- Posts : 1429
Points : 1584
Join date : 2012-08-05
Age : 26
Location : Varna, Bulgaria
What is the logic in making Mi-35s fixed gear.
I have to admit, retractable gear Mi-24s look far more aesthetic.
I have to admit, retractable gear Mi-24s look far more aesthetic.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13120
Points : 13162
Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
KomissarBojanchev wrote:What is the logic in making Mi-35s fixed gear.
I have to admit, retractable gear Mi-24s look far more aesthetic.
More durable, less maintenance
medo- Posts : 4337
Points : 4417
Join date : 2010-10-24
Location : Slovenia
Less weight.
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