The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

Viktor wrote:Nice   

Russian Fighter Jet Buzzed U.S. Ship: Officials

"dozen low passes — ranging from sea level to several thousand feet — near the USS Donald Cook."

Several thousand feet is a low pass?

Damn.

TR1 wrote:

Viktor wrote:Nice   

Russian Fighter Jet Buzzed U.S. Ship: Officials

"dozen low passes — ranging from sea level to several thousand feet — near the USS Donald Cook."

Several thousand feet is a low pass?

Damn.

Well if they went from several thousand feet to sea level in one pass - I'd call it a hell of a low pass

just a question, what are the chances of the Ukraine Army turning against Kiev itself?.

might this be a reason that the "anti terror" campaign did not initiate yet?. last i read is that the coup-imposed president authorised a go for the operation some hours ago.

its either this or Kiev is becomming the same broken record with "consequences" like the rest of the West.

altough i doubt they controlled much of the millitary in the first place.

Hannibal Barca wrote:
I don't want any federation. No federation! Russia is seriously winning this, please don't stop the show here!
Probably with the exception of the 5-6 well known Western Oblasts everyone else is about to turn against the coup that ousted Yanukovich and their foreign friends.
This is gonna be a triumph, let the cavalry massacre the routing enemy! No prisoners!

Ahr! Ahr! Hannibal "full steam ahead" Barca!
Cool down mate, it's gonna be a long story.

Flamming thanks for the report, prompt as usual.
Regards to the economy, any news about state salaries and pensions. Are provided so far? Any news about barter points around?

zino wrote:Flamming thanks for the report, prompt as usual.
Regards to the economy, any news about state salaries and pensions. Are provided so far? Any news about barter points around?

Don't know anything concrete, but yeah looks like they're not going to get paid out, or not paid out in full. I think I heard already about some sort of benefits or other not being paid out.

Really though, doesn't matter either way - because all basic products (food & other consumer goods) are rapidly rising in price, while the salaries stay the samey. The currency is collapsing, so imports are becoming very expensive, and people's savings are being cut in half effectively - what are they going to do with all their savings in Grivnas which are on their way to becoming worthless?

Don't think its long before the barter points. And Chechen-style slave markets at the rate things are going - it looks like Pravyj Sektor and other radicals are 1 step away from storming the Rada tonight.

TR1 wrote:

Viktor wrote:Nice   

Russian Fighter Jet Buzzed U.S. Ship: Officials

"dozen low passes — ranging from sea level to several thousand feet — near the USS Donald Cook."

Several thousand feet is a low pass?

Damn.

something like this ??  

zino wrote:

Hannibal Barca wrote:
I don't want any federation. No federation! Russia is seriously winning this, please don't stop the show here!
Probably with the exception of the 5-6 well known Western Oblasts everyone else is about to turn against the coup that ousted Yanukovich and their foreign friends.
This is gonna be a triumph, let the cavalry massacre the routing enemy! No prisoners!

Ahr! Ahr! Hannibal "full steam ahead" Barca!
Cool down mate, it's gonna be a long story.

  
My South temperament strikes in from time to time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNeKQXOsI0g#t=54
Moving video (for my old latin arse). This is definitely the last soviet generation in action. Often women as we have seen many times.
So our brave Hannibal is indeed right: now or never. There will not be another chance. Unfortunatly the enemy also knows this.

Eastern Ukrainians do net welcome tanks on their soil

zino wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNeKQXOsI0g#t=54
Moving video (for my old latin arse). This is definitely the last soviet generation in action. Often women as we have seen many times.
So our brave Hannibal is indeed right: now or never. There will not be another chance. Unfortunatly the enemy also knows this.

Kiev was always a Russian city. And I don't mean ethnically - but in language, self-identity, etc... basically like Kharkov - Ukrainians that identify themselves with Russia. A few decades ago the city was completely Russian speaking.
But now the natives have been outbred by the 'true' Ukrainians, who have been migrating there since Soviet times; so what we see now is a city in transition, and the last convulsions of its Russian identity in social-political terms at least, if not in linguistic ones yet.

There are far more Ukrainian-speakers there now, Russian-speakers are still a majority but I think in a few decades time it will become another Lvov or whatever.

One of the key things - is cultural, linguistic autonomy - let local people chose what celebrations they get to celebrate, what heroes they glorify, what history their kids are taught in school, what language they are taught in.
Otherwise the same fate will gradually befall Odessa, Zaporozhia, Dnepropetrovsk, Kherson, Kharkov.

That's if the Ukraine is going to remain as a unified country of course. I don't think anything less will be acceptable to the people.

Rumours of the 25th air-assault brigade from Dnepropetrovsk - defecting to the side of the Donetsk federalists/separatists after negotiations; or at least declaring neutrality and to not follow orders. They are right now apparently outside Slavyansk.

http://russian.rt.com/article/27712

But honestly there's been so many rumours about exactly this unit over the past 24 hours; ranging from their commander running off into the woods when the Ukrainian Alfa commander was ambushed & killed nearby, to them mutinying over attempts to force them into contract service; to some of their servicemen defecting in Lugansk.
So I wouldn't put much stock in anything right now - but something is definitely up with them.

flamming_python wrote:

zino wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNeKQXOsI0g#t=54
Moving video (for my old latin arse). This is definitely the last soviet generation in action. Often women as we have seen many times.
So our brave Hannibal is indeed right: now or never. There will not be another chance. Unfortunatly the enemy also knows this.

Kiev was always a Russian city. And I don't mean ethnically - but in language, self-identity, etc... basically like Kharkov - Ukrainians that identify themselves with Russia. A few decades ago the city was completely Russian speaking.
But now the natives have been outbred by the 'true' Ukrainians, who have been migrating there since Soviet times; so what we see now is a city in transition, and the last convulsions of its Russian identity in social-political terms at least, if not in linguistic ones yet.

There are far more Ukrainian-speakers there now, Russian-speakers are still a majority but I think in a few decades time it will become another Lvov or whatever.

One of the key things - is cultural, linguistic autonomy - let local people chose what celebrations they get to celebrate, what heroes they glorify, what history their kids are taught in school, what language they are taught in.
Otherwise the same fate will gradually befall Odessa, Zaporozhia, Dnepropetrovsk, Kherson, Kharkov.

That's if the Ukraine is going to remain as a unified country of course. I don't think anything less will be acceptable to the people.

Yes, to me Kiev as anything other than a Russian city is just obscene. But this is the threat.

Just as Putin said "its the Mother of all Russian cities". The original capital, the birthplace of the Russian orthodox church etc etc.

The appalling acts of the Great Patriotic War meant that Russians died, infact were slaughtered by the Nazis of the Western Ukraine. Thats why pure democracy ie a simple vote cannot settle this alone.
Why should Ukrainian nationalists and Nazis gain from ethnic cleansing and genocide of Russians?
A n umber of my family left Kiev when Stalin began the "Ukrainification" policy.

Today, Russia is having to manouvre around the idiocy of Yeltsin. The Ukraine was part of one country with the RUssian Soviet Republic. If Russia is the inheritor of the rights of the USSR, then IMO it is Russia's right to sort out the mess as it sees fit. Lets be honest, Russia was never friends with the USA and some of the EU in any case.

Perhaps RUssia will need to adopt some tactics which might incur condemnation from "the usual idiots". However, they might prevent some very bad occurrences later on.

cant anyone from moderators change the title of thread??

I think the West regularly tries to trick people on the demographics issue.
For instance, what is a Ukrainian or Russian? Its not like "African American" where a glance will dictate the answer.

Many people descend from families that always lived in the Ukrainian area, and not where modern day Russia is. But they can still be Russian, ethnically. As I said to a Ukr Nationalist idiot. You cannot say "I am not  a Russian, I am a Muscovite".

Likewise, there are people all over the RussianFed who might speak another langauge. But they are still part of the Fedn. For instance, someone might speak Yakutian, in work or with relatives and friends, but they can still be Russia.

I feel that people in the Ukraine have been harrassed into using Ukrainian. Thats certainly what I have been told by recent emigrants to the West. And was the case, many decades ago. And harrassment also invalidates any agreement, IMO.

George1 wrote:cant anyone from moderators change the title of thread??

correct ...  

flamming_python wrote:

zino wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNeKQXOsI0g#t=54
Moving video (for my old latin arse). This is definitely the last soviet generation in action. Often women as we have seen many times.
So our brave Hannibal is indeed right: now or never. There will not be another chance. Unfortunatly the enemy also knows this.

Kiev was always a Russian city. And I don't mean ethnically - but in language, self-identity, etc... basically like Kharkov - Ukrainians that identify themselves with Russia. A few decades ago the city was completely Russian speaking.
But now the natives have been outbred by the 'true' Ukrainians, who have been migrating there since Soviet times; so what we see now is a city in transition, and the last convulsions of its Russian identity in social-political terms at least, if not in linguistic ones yet.

There are far more Ukrainian-speakers there now, Russian-speakers are still a majority but I think in a few decades time it will become another Lvov or whatever.

One of the key things - is cultural, linguistic autonomy - let local people chose what celebrations they get to celebrate, what heroes they glorify, what history their kids are taught in school, what language they are taught in.
Otherwise the same fate will gradually befall Odessa, Zaporozhia, Dnepropetrovsk, Kherson, Kharkov.

That's if the Ukraine is going to remain as a unified country of course. I don't think anything less will be acceptable to the people.

Ukraine's missfortune is the fact that is in the borders of 2 civilazations.. Catholics and Orthodox. This cultural border was not regognised so far and here is the results.

in my view Ukraine cannot stand as a country for long . NOT EVEN AS FEDERATION , wich in the best case will be an indermediate stage before separation.

The main question is ... how much of their comfort the upper Russian class is ready to sacrifice .. so the line will be further west as possible.. ?
because the time has come to draw the line.. and who does not unsertand that will be the looser

What i found in my research..
UKraine is an artificially created state. It have no past before 1918. Ukraine state is a German project , that aimed to split the
Russian Empire and get a puppet state that could provide them with Free Food that they desperately need ,after western sanctions.
This means folks.. that the grand parents or parents of their grandparents of 80% of all Ukrainians today were Russians. the funder
of Ukraine was a Russian general traitor..that sold to the germans because of differences with Russia.

Just screw NATO-pedia ,you will never find the facts about Ukraine history in any American or jewish controlled site..
The best world you could find about Ukraine state origins is from the research of American Historian Webster Griffin Tarpley.
Info that comes from diplomatic sources..documents about the time of the creation of Ukraine.

http://tarpley.net/metaphysical-doubts-concerning-the-existence-of-modern-ukraine-a-1918-creation-of-the-german-general-staff/

So basically Germans aligned with Poland for to spread feelings of separatism in the western side of Russian Empire , that included the brainwashing and rewriting of history to fool the Russians in Ukraine today region thinking they are not really Russians but Europeans. There was no Ukraine before 1918 and no history of it. Before Ukrainians called itself Rusky or Ruthenians. nothing with U* name. They are nothing more that Russians from the rural zones ,and Russians from Russia are Russians from the cities. Ukrainian language is a dialect of Old Russian.(old slavic) and they are very similar language. the differences rely on the influence of Poland and Germans nations in Ukraine. in comparison Russia existed for more than a a thousand years,before Ukraine exist it was part of Russian Empire and before that the Tsardom of Russia . The interruption of Russia kingdom happened with the Mongol Invasion ,but was restarted again . The first Russians origin is on the kievan Rus Empire ,again you see this RUS word repetition here ..and RUS there.. always RUS..  but never Ukran ..Kievan RUS empire began in the year 800s.. when still the Roman Bizantine Empire was around. this is when the History of Russia start. and its capital was KIEV. Ukraine state was created at gun point with the help of a minority of Russian separatist that had European origin. This is the reasons Ukrainians ,new generations have an identity crisis. Because they have been told they are different of Russians ,that they are "europeans" but they celebrate the same Heroes that Russia celebrate in the kievan Rus empire.   The real Ukrainians, i will say are the far western part of Ukraine today from where the Neo nazis comes ,the ones that lead all protest in kiev. They never were Russian. They are POlish people. And their city LVIV (just like crimea) was given as a gift by Poland to the Ukraine artificial state , in order to Europenization of Ukraine and brainwashing of Russians ,to keep them split from their real motherland.

You will hear a lot of ukrainians how they are europeans.. but thats not true.. the only time the were Europeans was in 1918 ,when the artificial state was created by the German Army.. (an invasion). So ukrainians were only "europeans" when they were under a German occupation and had a German president. The fact that the vast majority of Ukrainians speak Russian should be telling of who they really are.. and only the new generation speak ukranians and only if the western part.

This is why i really believe that the best solution for Ukraine is to cut the root of the problem ,that is return the Neo Nazis Ultra nationals from where they came with all their territory. That is the far west LVIV city to Poland.. this is the dream of the neo nazis ,the reunification with their land,but they hope for a reunification with the entire package of Ukraine that was never European at best at one point was part of Turkey but not anymore.

Just take a look how Nazism have managed to infiltrate in the Ukrainian society..
a postal stamp of a nazi.



He is not even Ukranian but Austrian-Hungary. His region of LVIV only came to be Ukraine in his adult life.


and the first ruler of Ukraine artificial state..


He is also worshiped by some Ukranians nationalist , but he is a German and speak German.. and is buried in Germany and Ukranians speak a different language. He was simply a dictator who ruled Ukraine thought Guns  not through elections but through a military invasion..

The new generations of Ukranians are full of retards and US and Poland are behind that.There is a brainwashing campaign on Ukrainians that in rewriting of history. that have made it on Ukrainian Literature and public education.And the idea is simple.. the more you can Europenisize Ukrainians ,make them believe they are Europeans..even though they can't speak their language...the more difficult for Russia to reunite with them. Simply tactics but effective that western power use ,to make it impossible for Russia to become again as big as it was in the past. The Neo nazis from maidan ,who lead for months the protest in Kiev.. their maximun patriotic hero ,they worship Stephan Bandera and Nazi ,that ironically was not even Ukrainian.. he was Austrian-Hungarian .And when he was born.Ukraine didn't exist.  Which is the reason for the identity problem of Ukrainians. They celebrate someone that was NOT Ukranian. but Astro HUngarian.. but if go research about him ,wiki tells you he was ukrainian ,an ukrainian that do not speak Ukranian at birth..Neither Ukrainians nationalist can explain why their first RUler was a German.. because will be hard to explain how can a German rule in Ukraine if he dont speak ukranian. that was when Ukranian was created was thanks to a German Army occupation. Ukraine is as European as Afganistan is Russian. that should be interesting indeed to explain for any Ukrainian that thinks they are europeans and not russian. Clearly proof that you can do wonders with the media and manipulation of History.

The most ideal and peaceful solution Is the Federalization of all Ukraine.. So every region and city elect democratically their Majors and governors and local security . After that every republic in Ukraine  (minus the city of LVIV in the far west) ,later they remove the kiev junta and unite all regions (minus LVIV) under the name Kievan Republic. and by this time Only place called Ukraine will be the neo nazi territories.and later when economy is better.. seek the Re-Unification of the kievan new republic with Russia. Perhaps call it  Kievan Russian federation. After Russia takes their lost territory move to Trasmitia in Moldovia and offer a referendum to join Russia.  

Vann7 wrote:What i found in my research..
UKraine is an artificially created state. It have no past before 1918. Ukraine state is a German project , that aimed to split the
Russian Empire and get a puppet state that could provide them with Free Food that they desperately need ,after western sanctions.
This means folks.. that the grand parents or parents of their grandparents of 80% of all Ukrainians today were Russians. the funder
of Ukraine was a Russian general traitor..that sold to the germans because of differences with Russia.

Just screw NATO-pedia ,you will never find the facts about Ukraine history in any American or jewish controlled site..
The best world you could find about Ukraine state origins is from the research of American Historian Webster Griffin Tarpley.
Info that comes from diplomatic sources..documents about the time of the creation of Ukraine.

http://tarpley.net/metaphysical-doubts-concerning-the-existence-of-modern-ukraine-a-1918-creation-of-the-german-general-staff/

So basically Germans aligned with Poland for to spread feelings of separatism in the western side of Russian Empire , that included the brainwashing and rewriting of history to fool the Russians in Ukraine today region thinking they are not really Russians but Europeans. There was no Ukraine before 1918 and no history of it. Before Ukrainians called itself Rusky or Ruthenians. nothing with U* name. They are nothing more that Russians from the rural zones ,and Russians from Russia are Russians from the cities. Ukrainian language is a dialect of Old Russian.(old slavic) and they are very similar language. the differences rely on the influence of Poland and Germans nations in Ukraine. in comparison Russia existed for more than a a thousand years,before Ukraine exist it was part of Russian Empire and before that the Tsardom of Russia . The interruption of Russia kingdom happened with the Mongol Invasion ,but was restarted again . The first Russians origin is on the kievan Rus Empire ,again you see this RUS word repetition here ..and RUS there.. always RUS..  but never Ukran ..Kievan RUS empire began in the year 800s.. when still the Roman Bizantine Empire was around. this is when the History of Russia start. and its capital was KIEV. Ukraine state was created at gun point with the help of a minority of Russian separatist that had European origin. This is the reasons Ukrainians ,new generations have an identity crisis. Because they have been told they are different of Russians ,that they are "europeans" but they celebrate the same Heroes that Russia celebrate in the kievan Rus empire.   The real Ukrainians, i will say are the far western part of Ukraine today from where the Neo nazis comes ,the ones that lead all protest in kiev. They never were Russian. They are POlish people. And their city LVIV (just like crimea) was given as a gift by Poland to the Ukraine artificial state , in order to Europenization of Ukraine and brainwashing of Russians ,to keep them split from their real motherland.

You will hear a lot of ukrainians how they are europeans.. but thats not true.. the only time the were Europeans was in 1918 ,when the artificial state was created by the German Army.. (an invasion). So ukrainians were only "europeans" when they were under a German occupation and had a German president. The fact that the vast majority of Ukrainians speak Russian should be telling of who they really are.. and only the new generation speak ukranians and only if the western part.

This is why i really believe that the best solution for Ukraine is to cut the root of the problem ,that is return the Neo Nazis Ultra nationals from where they came with all their territory. That is the far west LVIV city to Poland.. this is the dream of the neo nazis ,the reunification with their land,but they hope for a reunification with the entire package of Ukraine that was never European at best at one point was part of Turkey but not anymore. and the rest of Ukraine ,become independent and if they desire Re-unification with their real Land of Russia.

Thanks, Vann.

For those who are interested in real history, rather than the "Scaligerian" fabrications, please take a look at my earlier post at

https://www.russiadefence.net/t3076-history-fiction-or-science

Dobkin the clown got painted!

delete

GarryB wrote:

arpakola wrote:

George1 wrote:cant anyone from moderators change the title of thread??

correct ...  

Changed.

thank Garry!! You are the best!

Ukraine: Kiev launches military operation in northern Donetsk Region - media reports

Ukraine's coup-appointed acting President Aleksander Turchynov has announced that an "anti-terrorist operation" was launched in the northern parts of the Donetsk region early on Tuesday morning, Interfax reports.

"An anti-terrorist operation was launched in the north of the Donetsk region early this morning. It will be conducted in a stage-by-stage, balanced and responsible manner. I would like to emphasize once again that the goal of these measures is to protect the citizens of Ukraine," he said in the Verkhovna Rada on Tuesday.

VoR Breaking NEWS

Doesn't seem good!


--------------------------
Edit:

Now RT is reporting it as well