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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    arpakola
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    Post  arpakola Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:22 am

    http://rt.com/news/ukraine-presidential-candidates-attacked-516/
    Ukrainian presidential candidate Tsarev brutally beaten - press office
    much worst then the painted..Dobkin





    Last edited by arpakola on Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:05 pm

    flamming_python,

    Any news?
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    Post  arpakola Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:31 pm

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:flamming_python,

    Any news?

    they started it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Ukraine crisis: Kiev calls for 'full-scale antiterrorist operation' in south-east. LIVE UPDATES
    Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/2014_04_14/Ukraine-crisis-Kiev-calls-for-full-scale-antiterrorist-operation-in-south-east-LIVE-UPDATES-0336/

    Kiev launches military operation in eastern Ukraine
    http://rt.com/news/kiev-military-operation-east-584/
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    Post  As Sa'iqa Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:32 pm

    FP, can you find some info about the economic condition of Western vs Eastern Ukraine? Which is richer?
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    Post  arpakola Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:43 pm

    As Sa'iqa wrote:FP, can you find some info about the economic condition of Western vs Eastern Ukraine? Which is richer?
    East
    has all the industry and
    south
    has industry plus fertile land with acceptable climate..
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    Post  macedonian Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:44 pm

    Any news guys?
    The last from RT Live on the Ukraine situation is @10:08 GMT

    Alternative sources?
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    Post  arpakola Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 pm

    macedonian wrote:Any news guys?
    The last from RT Live on the Ukraine situation is @10:08 GMT

    Alternative sources?
    http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_04_15/Ukraine-Kiev-launches-military-operation-in-northern-Donetsk-Region-media-reports-4680/
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    Post  macedonian Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:50 pm

    arpakola wrote:
    macedonian wrote:Any news guys?
    The last from RT Live on the Ukraine situation is @10:08 GMT

    Alternative sources?
    http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_04_15/Ukraine-Kiev-launches-military-operation-in-northern-Donetsk-Region-media-reports-4680/

    Yes, thanks.
    I meant like Russian forums of pro-Russian tweeter feeds from the ground.
    Anything deemed credible.
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    Post  flamming_python Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:50 pm

    As Sa'iqa wrote:FP, can you find some info about the economic condition of Western vs Eastern Ukraine? Which is richer?

    I can tell you right now that the east is richer and better developed; they tend to be donors to the central budget while the western regions tend to be recipients.

    Out of the 10 biggest cities in the Ukraine; 8 are in eastern Ukraine (Kharkov, Odessa, Dnepropetrovsk, Donetsk, Zaporozhia, Krivoy Rog, Nikolayev and Mariupol).

    Among them are such centres of industry and production as Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk, Donetsk and Zaporozhia.

    Odessa is a large city with a diversified economy, a large port and constant transit, serving as the main sea trade hub of the Ukraine - it has a lot of tourism too.
    Then you also have Nikolayev - which has fallen greatly from its Soviet days but still has some shipbuilding and enterprises related to the defense industry, as well as electronics and various machinery.
    Krivoy Rog is basically the metallurgical capital of the Ukraine; also with some machine-building, chemical industries.
    Mariupol is also a metallurgical centre and a port too.
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    Post  George1 Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:52 pm

    i think russia awaits until the situation will be worsened so as a military invasion to protect russian citizens will be justified in the view of international community
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    Post  macedonian Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:54 pm

    Tass is more up to date:

    Tass in Russian
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    Post  arpakola Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:56 pm

    http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1121765

    Kramatorsk police station abandanded ?


    looking better every day ( 1/18 almost)
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 8 Hruvna2

    http://itar-tass.com/ekonomika/1122676
    Реверс газа на Украину требует согласия "Газпрома", считает эксперт


    Last edited by arpakola on Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:44 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  macedonian Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:57 pm

    arpakola wrote:http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1121765

    Kramatorsk police station abandanded ?

    Yes, seems so.

    ---------------------
    Edit:

    This is how the freedom of the press is perceived in the 'New Democratic Ukraine'
    Тасс

    ---------------------
    Edit(2):

    TASS wrote:PARIS, April 15. /ITAR-TASS/. The Russian parliament’s lower house, the State Duma, will not be sending a group of observers to monitor the Ukrainian presidential election scheduled for May 25, a senior Russian lawmaker told an ITAR-TASS correspondent on Tuesday.

    “We are not recognizing those elections,” Leonid Slutsky, the head of the State Duma’s Committee on CIS Affairs, said.

    Tass should call Slutsky - Sluckiy Very Happy 


    Last edited by macedonian on Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  flamming_python Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:42 pm

    - EU is planning to cancel tarrifs on Ukrainian goods on the 23rd of April.
    ...by then there might not even be a country left.

    Now, real news:

    - The Italian foreign ministry informs that additional economic sanctions against Russia are not being discussed.
    - Romania is unable or unwilling to help the Ukraine with gas supplies
    - The town of Zurges has come under the control of the DPR; protestors have seized the administration building there.
    - The town of Khartsyzsk looks set to follow, there was an anti-Maidan rally of up to 3-4 thousand people there by some estimates (town has 60,000 population) although it might be exagerrated. Either way, the mayor is being called upon to side with the protestors and the DPR http://vognebroda.net/storonniki-federalizatsii-v-hartsyzske-donetskoy-oblasti-prizyvayut-mera-goroda-pereyti-na-storonu-protestuyushchih
    - New mayor elected in Mariupol by protestors, all buildings seem to be occupied now.
    - Loads of reports about more Kiev-loyal reinforcements arriving outside Slavyansk, including armour units, artillery and some formations from the newly formed national guard are on their way too. Meanwhile, anti-Kiev reinforcements have arrived to Slavyansk; seems those 50-60 people volunteers from Lugansk at least, but it looks like there is another group at least two - rumoured to be Berkut from somewhere. Some footage of new arrivals (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQjJ5rWzlSY).
    The mayor of the town seems to have either fled or stepped aside, a new interim mayor has been appointed. Apparently some firefights have already taken place on the outskirts, administration buildings in outlying villages have been burnt down.
    Basically, there is huge internal pressure on the government right now from Pravyj Sektor and other radicals to take action - so it seems like they will go in.
    Slavyansk is reportedly being stormed only by western & central Ukrainian units: http://russian.rt.com/article/27576#ixzz2yl2Vh3eZ
    - No reliable information about the 25th air-assault brigade; the head of the Ukrainian airborne forces have denied that they have switched sides. Here's the news piece where it was claimed that they did: http://russian.rt.com/article/27712
    - Ukrainian airborne unit got turned around in Krasnoarmejsk yesterday. They probably just found another route though

    - Yatsenyuk fired Antonov's boss yesterday. Guess he just told him what he didn't want to hear, about how Antonov can't survive w/o Russia etc..
    - Ukraine is threatening to close the border with Russia. Might be hard though, according to one source - these guys are defected Ukr border guards troops:
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 8 Ukrbor10
    - The now ex-Ukrainian SBU head, Alexander Yakimenko - is claiming that the new SBU head (Nalivajchenko) has links with the CIA.
    - Things might get bloody in Odessa. As I'm sure some have seen the vids already, there is a growing pro-Russian 'druzhina' in the city, which is armed with shields, helmets, armour, clubs, etc... which has been kicking the ass of the Euromaidan self-defense forces there who are armed the same way. Now the Euromaidan activists in the city are announcing that they are 'arming themselves', whatever that means.
    - Kiev, and Ukraine in general is basically getting taken over by bandits. This is because the Kiev authorties are authorising more and more armed groups; the National Guard, then Avakov's call for new police units formed from civilian armed groups numbering up to 12,000, and now Timoshenko is calling for the formation of a 'people's movement' called "resistance". This is in addition to the existing groups, which arming themselves more and taking on a key role for the authorities - Maidan self-defense forces, Udar's and Svoboda's own armed activists and of course Pravyj Sektor; which is a rival to the authorities most of the time but against Russia and the eastern rebels at least is united with them.

    And everything else I think you guys have seen already; Tsarev beaten and arrested, Pravyj Sektor mob outside the Rada last night (which ended up in a fist-fight over whether to storm the Rada or not), a T-64 being either captured or disarmed in a field, etc...
    Well here's Zhirinovsky in the Duma today:
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 8 Zhir10


    Last edited by flamming_python on Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
    macedonian
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    Post  macedonian Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:55 pm

    Thanks for that update FP.
    Seems the people in the east and south get organized better as time passes.
    Hope they will prevail if things get messy.
     russia

    Edit:

    There was a link for helping out people in the east, can someone post it again here?
    Thx
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:25 pm

    arpakola wrote:http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1121765

    Kramatorsk police station abandanded ?


    looking better every day ( 1/18 almost)
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 8 Hruvna2

    http://itar-tass.com/ekonomika/1122676
    Реверс газа на Украину требует согласия "Газпрома", считает эксперт

    Your source is outdated. I just spoke with my trader. Yesterday, like I already told you, closed at 18,17.
    Today Ukraine Central Bank make transactions for 16,52 guaranteeing with the recent loans they got thus trying to stabilize the price.
    Pointless, my trader (a very good one) informed me that is virtually impossible to find Hryvnia via bank transaction let alone executing the transaction.
    Black market is in charge of the price now which is high 10s low 20s and on the street probably  even MUCH higher.
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    Post  sepheronx Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:34 pm

    Thanks for the info hannible.

    As well, I would like to see more of your activity in the Russian economic thread.

    Things are progressively getting worst in Ukraine. Hopefully it ends peacefully but I have my doubts.
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    Post  arpakola Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:36 pm


    Maidan activists come to blows with each other in Kiev as one group tries to get access to the stage while another does not want them on the stage.
    (geting better everyday)

    ---------------------




    --------------------
    Donetsk


    Last edited by arpakola on Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  arpakola Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:51 pm


    Истребитель на Краматорском открыл огонь
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:13 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Thanks for the info hannible.

    As well, I would like to see more of your activity in the Russian economic thread.

    Things are progressively getting worst in Ukraine. Hopefully it ends peacefully but I have my doubts.


    I have nothing to say so far. Despite all the hype Russian economy is virtually untouched.
    It's an other thing to threaten to take sanctions, an other thing to implement them and an other thing altogether for this sanctions to have measurable effect.
    I do expect for Russia growth to slow down by 1% the first half of the year which translates to a very catchy 0% growth but this is cause any insurgence make economic activity
    tougher, demand further capital and additional the new lands will demand immediate help. But is nothing fundamental. The gains in the next couple of years will greatly offset any problems.
    I really don't see how this thing can effectively harm Russian economy, even if Russian army storm Kiev. If something change I will report otherwise.

    Ukraine economy on the other hand is finished. They will stay in a permanent default condition for years to come and a major humanitarian need comparable only with the 90s.
    The central/west oblast will never make them alone with the help of west. They need industrial development when even the core of West de-intustrialize  frantically.
    They will need, sooner or later, beg the very same Russian and Chinese investments that turned down recently to come back and save them.
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    Post  sepheronx Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:32 pm

    Agreed. When Russia went to war with Georgia is 2008, they had a negative GDP growth of -9% but rebounded fast afterwards. If they get a 0% this year (.5% is prediction), then it tells us that russia really did diversify and really did become far more economically independant from rest of world.

    Ukraine is screwed though. Now with aircrafts flying amd supposed 11 dead during ops, they are really pushing for Russia to intervene, which Putin said they will if Ukr bandit gov goes to far.
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    Post  As Sa'iqa Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:32 pm

    One thing is sure - the new Ukraine without Crimea and eastern regions will become a mortal enemy of Russia, yearning for revenge. If they manage to institute major economic reforms (as Poland did in early 1990s0, they'll become a fast developing country.



    What about Russia? It will be a miracle if Russia experiences 1% growth this year. The US will have a growth rate of 3% and 4% in 2015.
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    Post  sepheronx Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:35 pm

    Us growth rate is a sham. Especially since theeir in debt up to their eyeballs and printing money like no tomorrow. And how will Ukraine be fast growing? They been dependant on other parts of Ukraine for budget. They will end up debt ridden and poor much like many Eastern European countries like Bulgaria.

    EU is facing trouble, and US economy is built up by virtual wealth.
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    Post  As Sa'iqa Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:42 pm

    I'd like someone to post explict data proving that Eastern regions are richer so that I can use them in discussions on another forum.
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    Post  macedonian Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:55 pm

    As Sa'iqa wrote:One thing is sure - the new Ukraine without Crimea and eastern regions will become a mortal enemy of Russia, yearning for revenge. If they manage to institute major economic reforms (as Poland did in early 1990s0, they'll become a fast developing country.



    What about Russia? It will be a miracle if Russia experiences 1% growth this year. The US will have a growth rate of 3% and 4% in 2015.

    Sure, if wishful thinking and fact are the same - you'd probably be right.
    You know, many of your posts (as well as the posts I read on MP.net by Polish, Finnish, Swedish, English, Romanian, and American members) make me want to slap someone. You do your country no justice, you know! You just alienate others from feeling compassionate towards other Poles.
    Now please tell me: ARE YOU SLAVIC, OR ARE YOU GERMAN/SAXON?!
    DO YOU PREFER BEING A SLAVE TO THE ANGLOS, OR DO YOU WANT TO BE INDEPENDENT?!

    Next time you provoke me into answering, I'll tell you EXACTLY how they view/treat Poles in England (hint: your 'allies' RIDICULE you!!! You are shite to them!!!).
    And I'll tell you just which jobs the Poles were employed to do in Britain!!!
    Stop it! Have at least SOME DIGNITY!!!

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