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    Project 21631: Buyan-M missile ship

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 10, 2022 12:16 pm

    I don't mean the ship, I integrate my TORM2U into on project 21631 Buyan-M rocket ship.

    The point is that they need to modify the search radar to use the ships AESA radar and to use that same AESA radar for precision tracking of the targets and the outgoing missiles. Once you have the command and control system working then you just need to mount the launch bins mounted directly on the ships deck.

    When it is ready it will be an excellent... But then these new short range SAMs they are developing with ARH for self defence from artillery or swarm attacks.
    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Thu Dec 29, 2022 8:07 pm

    Small missile ship "Grad"
    Status; in active service..

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    Post  George1 Sun Jan 01, 2023 3:33 am

    Small rocket ship "Grad" of project 21631 (code "Buyan-M"), built at JSC "Zelenodolsk plant, 12/29/2022

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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri Jan 13, 2023 1:45 pm

    On the left is the small rocket ship "Odintsovo" of project 22800 and on the right is "Zeleniy Dol" of project 21631.
    Location: Kronstadt - VMB fleet
    Date: 2022
    Author: Andrey Vechernin

    Project 21631: Buyan-M missile ship - Page 24 31202710



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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Thu May 11, 2023 1:31 pm

    Is it already known whether there will be an improved version?
    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Thu May 11, 2023 6:31 pm

    They need to improve air defense of these ships. They are vulnerable to drones with air to surface missiles.
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    Post  GarryB Fri May 12, 2023 4:07 am

    They are developing tiny very short range missiles to intercept hard targets like artillery shells and artillery rockets that will probably weigh about 10-15kgs each to be carried in large numbers on land for convoy defence... hundreds per vehicle...

    I rather suspect such missiles would be ideal for use against a range of threats, the missiles they mentioned were ARH for the precision needed for direct impact on shells and rocket warheads to ensure destroying them, but optically guided and also IIR guided missiles could be included along with command guided missile versions to make them flexible.

    Each guidance option has advantages and problems and having a variety of missiles will allow lower costs and better use to engage specific target types.

    I would say incoming artillery rounds will be hot so IIR would be great, and with drones IR should work too but lack of combustion motors and metal parts would make the drones harder to detect and track... but actually LIDAR would be ideal in that it would detect any drone and it is very accurate.

    The size of the radar that could be fitted to even small ships would offer excellent detection of all sorts of small targets and command guided (like naval TOR) would be very accurate and also rather cheap because they carry no sensor on board, but IIR and ARH would also be very effective against a range of other threat types including incoming missiles and rockets and bombs.

    Together with such missiles you would have radar and LIDAR, but also lasers for dazzling optics and destroying small targets and of course jammers and EW equipment to deal with drones and missiles.

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    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri May 12, 2023 4:52 pm

    To-MIG-31BM2, etc.....

    The production line for 21631 Buyan-M corvettes is closing and the last ship under construction is "Stavropol" (12th in a row), whose keel was laid in July 2018 and is expected to be launched this year.
    Since I believe that the Zelenodolsk shipyard will certainly not close its facilities, I am of the opinion that the Russians will CONTINUE the production of small missile ships of the announced 21635 "Sarsar" project. I don't know if they will look exactly like the models in this picture, but it seems to me that the Russians like two (instead of one with 8 missiles) UKSK with 8 missiles each - 16 in total.
    What I think will be added is anti-submarine weapons and I think sonar will be installed in the bow of the ship. Since the Russians already have "Otvet (Answer)" which is launched from UKSK, it means that it is not necessary to install the Paket-NK system although the ship of project 21635 is significantly larger than 21631 and I think there is room for that system as well..

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    Post  lancelot Fri May 12, 2023 6:08 pm

    The main weakness of the design is indeed the lack of anti-submarine capabilities. The hull was too small to have all those capabilities built into it. So I guess they will be enlarging the ship on the next iteration. I hope they do not make the mistake of relying again on the scarcely produced M503 engine like they did in the Karakurt. Now they have the M70FRU gas turbine. So they could just make a design with those gas turbines and/or the 10D49 diesels.

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    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri May 12, 2023 8:21 pm

    To Lancelot

    I agree. I'm of the opinion that any ship that has at least two UKSKs with a total of 16 missiles is a decently armed ship. As for universality, only project 20385 corvettes and 22350 frigates have universality and excellent armament in relation to displacement. I am convinced that the Russians will completely give primacy to platforms with a larger displacement. The moment the Russians launch the fourth Admiral Isakov frigate, it will mean that those frigates will go into mass production. I am of the opinion that Zelenodolsk will certainly continue with the construction of some new project, and perhaps it is 21635 Sarsar.
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    Post  Podlodka77 Thu Jun 15, 2023 9:26 pm

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    Project 21631: Buyan-M missile ship - Page 24 Empty Pr. 21635 SARSAR

    Post  Krepost Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:23 am

    Follow on to the pr.22800 and pr.21631 classes to be displayed at IMDS-2023

    Pr. 21635 SARSAR

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    Post  AMCXXL Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:16 am



    Podlodka77 wrote:To-MIG-31BM2, etc.....

    The production line for 21631 Buyan-M corvettes is closing and the last ship under construction is "Stavropol" (12th in a row), whose keel was laid in July 2018 and is expected to be launched this year.
    Since I believe that the Zelenodolsk shipyard will certainly not close its facilities, I am of the opinion that the Russians will CONTINUE the production of small missile ships of the announced 21635 "Sarsar" project. I don't know if they will look exactly like the models in this picture, but it seems to me that the Russians like two (instead of one with 8 missiles) UKSK with 8 missiles each - 16 in total.
    What I think will be added is anti-submarine weapons and I think sonar will be installed in the bow of the ship. Since the Russians already have "Otvet (Answer)" which is launched from UKSK, it means that it is not necessary to install the Paket-NK system although the ship of project 21635 is significantly larger than 21631 and I think there is room for that system as well..


    Of course, the Buyan-M is only intended for the Baltic, Black Sea and Caspian Sea.
    A series of slightly larger and more capable ships would be desirable for the Pacific Fleet and the Northern Fleet.
    In addition, all that amalgamation of small boats such as Grisha, Parchin , Nanuchka and Tarantul must be replaced.

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    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Thu Jun 29, 2023 11:14 pm

    AMCXXL wrote:A series of slightly larger and more capable ships would be desirable for the Pacific Fleet and the Northern Fleet.
    In addition, all that amalgamation of small boats such as Grisha, Parchin , Nanuchka and Tarantul must be replaced.
    If you look at what has been happening, Grisha is being replaced on a 1:1 basis with the Steregushchiy. Which is way more capable. Much the same has been happening with the Nanuchka being replaced on a 1:1 basis with either the Buyan-M or now the Karakurt.

    I am assuming they will replace the Parchin also with the Steregushchiy, and the Tarantul with the Karakurt.
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    Post  AMCXXL Fri Jun 30, 2023 5:04 am

    lancelot wrote:
    AMCXXL wrote:A series of slightly larger and more capable ships would be desirable for the Pacific Fleet and the Northern Fleet.
    In addition, all that amalgamation of small boats such as Grisha, Parchin , Nanuchka and Tarantul must be replaced.
    If you look at what has been happening, Grisha is being replaced on a 1:1 basis with the Steregushchiy. Which is way more capable. Much the same has been happening with the Nanuchka being replaced on a 1:1 basis with either the Buyan-M or now the Karakurt.

    I am assuming they will replace the Parchin also with the Steregushchiy, and the Tarantul with the Karakurt.

    That doesn't make sense, the armament and function of these ships is totally different
    Grisha III and Parchim are coastal anti-submarine corvettes (third rank) of about 900 tons full load, they are not being replaced by anything, there is still a squadron in each Fleet

    The Stereguschy are light frigates (second rank) and about 2,250 tons full load that occupy the place left vacant by the Kirvak after the end of the USSR.

    Nanuchka II corvettes and Tarantul boats are surface combatants, in a certain sense they can be compared with the Buyan-M and the Karakirt but even so I do not think they will be replaced by them, there must be another more class of ships
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    Post  lancelot Fri Jun 30, 2023 2:18 pm

    The Steregushchiy has quite significant anti-submarine capabilities more sophisticated than the Grisha even. Steregushchiy is also multi-role. As for the Krivak, that is a much larger ship, meant to be replaced by the frigates like the Admiral Grigorovich I think.
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Fri Jun 30, 2023 2:40 pm

    lancelot wrote:
    If you look at what has been happening, Grisha is being replaced on a 1:1 basis with the Steregushchiy. Which is way more capable. Much the same has been happening with the Nanuchka being replaced on a 1:1 basis with either the Buyan-M or now the Karakurt.

    I am assuming they will replace the Parchin also with the Steregushchiy, and the Tarantul with the Karakurt.

    1 :1 basis? More than 80 Grisha class were built.
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    Post  lancelot Fri Jun 30, 2023 2:46 pm

    There are 8 Grishas active in the Pacific Fleet. They are building 8 Steregushchiy/Gremyashchiy ships for the Pacific Fleet. The Pacific Fleet has 4 Nanuchkas and they are building 4 Karakurts.

    There are 2 Grishas in the Black Sea Fleet. They either built or are in the process of finishing 2 Steregushchiy ships for the Black Sea Fleet. Need I continue?

    The Grisha and Parchim had crew sizes of 86 and 81 respectively. The Steregushchiy and Gremyashchiy have a crew size of 100. While that is larger, the difference in crew size is way smaller than the change in displacement where they have over twice the displacement.

    It could be they simply are not in the mood for single mission ship types anymore. Where you tie down hundreds of sailors just on anti-submarine work.

    From what I understand the main difference between the Buyan-M and the Karakurt is that the Karakurt is meant to have better sailing characteristics in deeper waters. The original Buyan had a draft of 2m, Buyan-M has a draft of 2.5m, and the Karakurt is 3.3m. While the first series was made for the Caspian Sea, the next series was made for the Black Sea and the Baltic Sea mainly, and the last seem to be made for the Pacific and maybe North Sea eventually, although is also being used in the Black Sea and the Baltic Sea. It seems to be a process of continuous optimization where they initially designed a ship to be as capable of working close to shallow waters and inside the canal system then gradually increased the draft so they could operate further away from the shore. Maybe the canal system now allows such higher draft vessels to operate where previously it wasn't possible. I know they have been dredging the canals over the past decade and in some cases changing the locks even.

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    Post  Krepost Sat Jul 01, 2023 4:52 am

    The pr. 22800 Karakurt class missile ship TUCHA has been launched at Zelenodolsk shipyard.
    Here is a picture of the Tucha at the launching ceremony.

    Look in the background: the 12th pr. 21631 Buyan-M class ship STAVROPOL.

    Project 21631: Buyan-M missile ship - Page 24 30-11610

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    Post  Krepost Mon Aug 07, 2023 6:44 pm

    My post above was incorrect.
    That ship in the background is not STAVROPOL.
    It is the 11th unit of the class NARO-FOMINSK.

    It is now being towed (through inland waterways) to the Baltic sea for sea trials.
    This ship was originally intended for the Black Sea. But, because of tension in the Baltic sea, it will be home based there.
    Project 21631: Buyan-M missile ship - Page 24 16914110

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    Post  Krepost Thu Oct 12, 2023 4:03 am

    First pictures of NARO-FOMINSK (with masts installed) on sea trials near Kronshtadt.



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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:53 am

    Krepost wrote:
    Project 21631: Buyan-M missile ship - Page 24 20-11617
    Is PanzirM placed there correctly? Why not step it up a notch?
    There would also be room for a TorM2 VLS on the sides.
    If necessary, simply lower a TorM2 tracked vehicle into a prefabricated "butter dish" using a crane, attach it and let the tower look over it to rotate. The chassis is a maximum of 180 cm high. All it takes is one such "admission" and then a few updates to the system to cope with the water environment.
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    Post  ALAMO Thu Oct 12, 2023 10:04 am

    This ship is insanely well-armed for its size already.
    It is not a star destroyer.

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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Thu Oct 12, 2023 10:15 am

    ALAMO wrote:This ship is insanely well-armed for its size already.
    It is not a star destroyer.

    Project 21631: Buyan-M missile ship - Page 24 Inter10
    First of all, I ask, why not at this point?
    And if it's a PanzirM tower, a TorM2U tower is also possible.
    An AK630 system could also compliment Tor. The ship is bigger. This should certainly work.
    Nothing Star Destroyer but an escort destroyer is enough for me.
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:18 am

    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:
    First of all, I ask, why not at this point?

    Surely money comes into this, there must be a budget for each ship? Plus finite production capacity?

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