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NickM wrote:Sujoy wrote:India won't back western sanctions against Russia over Crimea
India
Yeah not like they are a major economy.
+42
Mindstorm
navyfield
dionis
ahmedfire
Russian Patriot
KomissarBojanchev
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xeno
arpakola
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medo
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Cyberspec
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As Sa'iqa
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Morpheus Eberhardt
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zg18
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macedonian
Viktor
Stealthflanker
Hannibal Barca
zino
collegeboy16
etaepsilonk
GarryB
sepheronx
magnumcromagnon
Samar Rathi
Austin
calripson
SOC
Regular
TR1
Werewolf
flamming_python
46 posters
The Situation in the Ukraine. #2
TR1- Posts : 5435
Points : 5433
Join date : 2011-12-06
Yeah not like they are a major economy.
arpakola- Posts : 1510
Points : 1542
Join date : 2014-03-12
Age : 56
Location : Athens
AlfaT8 wrote:Good, now all thats left is to find out if Reihmetall has to pay any penalties to Russia for breaking there "contractual obligations".sepheronx wrote:Germany has placed sanctions on as trade with Russia. Reihmetall deals canceled.
Guess I was right after all when I said that Russian mod needs to buy Russian, not export. That said, they should probably face no issues then copying whatever they got and improve upon it themselves, as well as sell to whomever they please, withought backlash.
supply 12 X units S400 and 48X Panchir to IRAN
that would do
also Iskander to Syria and IRAN
KomissarBojanchev- Posts : 1429
Points : 1584
Join date : 2012-08-05
Age : 26
Location : Varna, Bulgaria
What about Nikolayev? It will take another decade or 2 for russia to have a ship yard as capable as it. It cant be let to become a NATO production powerhouse or rot into nothingness.TR1 wrote:ahmedfire wrote:I listened to president putin speech , strong one ,but why he specially mentioned the german people ?
Will Russia let Ukraine to join NATO , if that happened i think Russia will be the looser in this situation even after crimea annexation.
Who cares if Ukraine goes NATO?
Does nothing since the only strategically important part of Ukraine is now Russian.
Russia already has NATO members, nothing has changed.
TR1- Posts : 5435
Points : 5433
Join date : 2011-12-06
Nikolayev is rusting and can't make anything worthwhile right now. Their personnel situation is as bad.
It would be easier for Russia to make its own new shipyards, which it is slowly doing. The only thing Nikolayev offers is large space + that huge crane. Russia can make that within the span of 5 years, if it is economically worthwhile.
NATO has no use for Ukranine's military industry, if anything you will see the industry be strangled out.
It would be easier for Russia to make its own new shipyards, which it is slowly doing. The only thing Nikolayev offers is large space + that huge crane. Russia can make that within the span of 5 years, if it is economically worthwhile.
NATO has no use for Ukranine's military industry, if anything you will see the industry be strangled out.
etaepsilonk- Posts : 707
Points : 687
Join date : 2013-11-19
When was the last time Nikolaev shipyard actually built a ship?
It's already rotten to the core, rebuilding it would probably cost the same, as building a new one.
However, I'd disagree that Crimea is the only strategically important region. That also applies to Odessa (easy to defend, direct access to Dnestr and Danube rivers).
---------
To Regular:
LMAO
I didn't even think, that they still do such shows.
It's already rotten to the core, rebuilding it would probably cost the same, as building a new one.
However, I'd disagree that Crimea is the only strategically important region. That also applies to Odessa (easy to defend, direct access to Dnestr and Danube rivers).
---------
To Regular:
LMAO
I didn't even think, that they still do such shows.
arpakola- Posts : 1510
Points : 1542
Join date : 2014-03-12
Age : 56
Location : Athens
KomissarBojanchev wrote:What about Nikolayev? It will take another decade or 2 for russia to have a ship yard as capable as it. It cant be let to become a NATO production powerhouse or rot into nothingness.TR1 wrote:ahmedfire wrote:I listened to president putin speech , strong one ,but why he specially mentioned the german people ?
Will Russia let Ukraine to join NATO , if that happened i think Russia will be the looser in this situation even after crimea annexation.
Who cares if Ukraine goes NATO?
Does nothing since the only strategically important part of Ukraine is now Russian.
Russia already has NATO members, nothing has changed.
Ukraine is to be used from EU /NATO for food production and missile - radar bases
and that's ok if is West to the Dneip river
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
Points : 8273
Join date : 2013-12-05
Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan
TR1 wrote:ahmedfire wrote:I listened to president putin speech , strong one ,but why he specially mentioned the german people ?
Will Russia let Ukraine to join NATO , if that happened i think Russia will be the looser in this situation even after crimea annexation.
Who cares if Ukraine goes NATO?
Does nothing since the only strategically important part of Ukraine is now Russian.
Russia already has NATO members, nothing has changed.
The Russian MOD, btw the missile bases will be a prelude to a nuclear first strike that Andrew Marshall desperately wants, I say Russia should respond in kind by deploying missile and submarine bases in Cuba and in Algeria, fitted with S-400's, S-500's, Iskander-M's and road mobile YARS-24's.
etaepsilonk- Posts : 707
Points : 687
Join date : 2013-11-19
magnumcromagnon wrote:TR1 wrote:ahmedfire wrote:I listened to president putin speech , strong one ,but why he specially mentioned the german people ?
Will Russia let Ukraine to join NATO , if that happened i think Russia will be the looser in this situation even after crimea annexation.
Who cares if Ukraine goes NATO?
Does nothing since the only strategically important part of Ukraine is now Russian.
Russia already has NATO members, nothing has changed.
The Russian MOD, btw the missile bases will be a prelude to a nuclear first strike that Andrew Marshall desperately wants, I say Russia should respond in kind by deploying missile and submarine bases in Cuba and in Algeria, fitted with S-400's, S-500's, Iskander-M's and road mobile YARS-24's.
Wouldn't Borei SSBNs be just as effective, but much cheaper option?
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Western "values" at work
etaepsilonk- Posts : 707
Points : 687
Join date : 2013-11-19
On a lighter note, it appears that NATO is training on a possible contingency in Ukraine using a realistic simulation of Eastern European environment 
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
Points : 8273
Join date : 2013-12-05
Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan
etaepsilonk wrote:magnumcromagnon wrote:TR1 wrote:ahmedfire wrote:I listened to president putin speech , strong one ,but why he specially mentioned the german people ?
Will Russia let Ukraine to join NATO , if that happened i think Russia will be the looser in this situation even after crimea annexation.
Who cares if Ukraine goes NATO?
Does nothing since the only strategically important part of Ukraine is now Russian.
Russia already has NATO members, nothing has changed.
The Russian MOD, btw the missile bases will be a prelude to a nuclear first strike that Andrew Marshall desperately wants, I say Russia should respond in kind by deploying missile and submarine bases in Cuba and in Algeria, fitted with S-400's, S-500's, Iskander-M's and road mobile YARS-24's.
Wouldn't Borei SSBNs be just as effective, but much cheaper option?
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Western "values" at work
I did say submarine bases didn't I?
BTW Russia has oil exploration efforts in both Algeria and off the coast of Cuba, so they're also defending their economic interests as well.
etaepsilonk- Posts : 707
Points : 687
Join date : 2013-11-19
Sorry, but I think that SSBN bases in Cuba may be a bit... impractical, so to say.
zino- Posts : 118
Points : 130
Join date : 2013-11-21
Location : Northern Italy Autonomous Okrug
I don't share the humor running in this thread
"Ukraine says it is leaving the Moscow-led Commonwealth of Independent States and is preparing military exercises with the US and UK"
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26645477
"National Security Council acting head: Ukraine decides to quit CIS"
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/724459
"Ukraine intends to introduce visa regulations with Russia"
interfax.com
Things are escalating so much. Hard days ahead.
"Ukraine says it is leaving the Moscow-led Commonwealth of Independent States and is preparing military exercises with the US and UK"
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26645477
"National Security Council acting head: Ukraine decides to quit CIS"
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/724459
"Ukraine intends to introduce visa regulations with Russia"
interfax.com
Things are escalating so much. Hard days ahead.
ahmedfire- Posts : 2123
Points : 2303
Join date : 2010-11-11
Location : The Land Of Pharaohs
TR1 wrote:ahmedfire wrote:I listened to president putin speech , strong one ,but why he specially mentioned the german people ?
Will Russia let Ukraine to join NATO , if that happened i think Russia will be the looser in this situation even after crimea annexation.
Who cares if Ukraine goes NATO?
Does nothing since the only strategically important part of Ukraine is now Russian.
Russia already has NATO members, nothing has changed.
Let's be more clear , Russia support Yanukovich not because " the legal elected government " or something like that it's only because he is in the Russian side and the opposition in the west side , so it's very important where is the ukranian side ! with the superpower countries like Russia ,the neighboring lands like Ukraine is also "politically and as a national security " a Russian lands , that's why US acted that way in the cuban missiles crisis , Russia should not let the US missile shield on it's borders and who knows US could put some nuclear missiles in ukraine to gurantee fast first nuclear hit and therefore the first kill in any future conflict .
GarryB- Posts : 39006
Points : 39502
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Any ABM missiles in the Ukraine could not be justified except in terms of stopping Russian ICBMs, which means the Russians could tear up the new START treaty and do as they wish.
US ballistic or cruise missiles in the Ukraine would immediately lead to the Russian withdrawl from the INF treaty and lots of IRBMs developed and deployed.
More importantly any missiles based in the Ukraine should be able to be dealt with using S-400, with S-500 actually being overkill on such short range weapons.
Reading recent reports the Russian military is in the process of moving from nuclear deterrence to precision guided conventional weapon deterrence, so instead of having to nuke the hell out of a country to ensure specific components are hit soon they will be able to do what the west has been doing and use conventional surgical strike weapons to hit specific strategic threats....
Regarding the Ukraine it will be interesting to see what happens when they try to have elections... I don't think all of the Ukraine will accept being dragged into the EU by force...
How Ironic really... during the cold war if I had said that after the collapse of the Soviet Union that the EU would be taking former Soviet Republics by force or underhanded organised colur revolutions most people would have said that would be what Russia would do.... how ironic!
US ballistic or cruise missiles in the Ukraine would immediately lead to the Russian withdrawl from the INF treaty and lots of IRBMs developed and deployed.
More importantly any missiles based in the Ukraine should be able to be dealt with using S-400, with S-500 actually being overkill on such short range weapons.
Reading recent reports the Russian military is in the process of moving from nuclear deterrence to precision guided conventional weapon deterrence, so instead of having to nuke the hell out of a country to ensure specific components are hit soon they will be able to do what the west has been doing and use conventional surgical strike weapons to hit specific strategic threats....
Regarding the Ukraine it will be interesting to see what happens when they try to have elections... I don't think all of the Ukraine will accept being dragged into the EU by force...
How Ironic really... during the cold war if I had said that after the collapse of the Soviet Union that the EU would be taking former Soviet Republics by force or underhanded organised colur revolutions most people would have said that would be what Russia would do.... how ironic!
Hannibal Barca- Posts : 1443
Points : 1451
Join date : 2013-12-13
I want them hanged! and I want it short!
GarryB- Posts : 39006
Points : 39502
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Who cares what Joe Biden thinks... he has stood by as the US has shown Russia what a truly dark path is, with the deaths of enormous numbers of people and for what.. the US is no safer... the US is no richer... it violates the sovereignty of every country on the planet every day via its NSA... ironically the only part of the US government that actually listens to the people...
It is clearly time for Russia to look elsewhere for trading partners...
It is clearly time for Russia to look elsewhere for trading partners...
sepheronx
sepheronx- Posts : 8532
Points : 8794
Join date : 2009-08-06
Age : 34
Location : Canada
GarryB wrote:Who cares what Joe Biden thinks... he has stood by as the US has shown Russia what a truly dark path is, with the deaths of enormous numbers of people and for what.. the US is no safer... the US is no richer... it violates the sovereignty of every country on the planet every day via its NSA... ironically the only part of the US government that actually listens to the people...
It is clearly time for Russia to look elsewhere for trading partners...
As much as the peons on MP.net like to believe, there are many more countries willing to do business with other than USA, France, Germany, ect. yes, they are economically far more relevant than other countries, but Russia can start to build up its domestic wealth by working more with private and state run industries to get the average Russian wealthier, as well as make owning a business even more easier. Then start to economically build up allied nations like Kazakhstan and Belarus in order to get them into the game of purchasing Russian goods. Armenia, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan have shown interest of joining customs union. Why not get Cuba, Venezuela, Vietnam and Nicaragua into it as well, and start pumping out Russian businesses to these countries as investments. Money will end up coming back.
Companies who have a lot of co-investment from west, will seek other investors, and it is no secret that China wanted to increase trade turnover to $100B this year, and with majority of foreign FDR is in energy companies, China and India both would probably be very interested in purchasing shares and or co-developing. Agriculture, food, is very important especially for India and China, thus Russia is prime for agriculture development too. Iran is a wild card here, but as long as Russian gov does not keep using them as a card, then Russia could get more than just energy deals with Iran, and bolstering them up will be another big key for Russia. Egypt and Algeria are two other countries that it would be wise for Russia to invest in, especially in mobile market, energy, agriculture and tourism.
GarryB- Posts : 39006
Points : 39502
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
You invest for two reasons... to help something grow and mature, or to make money.
The west invests in Russia to make money.
Russia loses nothing from the loss of western investment.
The west invests in Russia to make money.
Russia loses nothing from the loss of western investment.
TR1- Posts : 5435
Points : 5433
Join date : 2011-12-06
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Zaporizhya.jpg
The real reason Russia violated Ukraine's sovereignty .
Kinda curious what happens to Ukrainian military equipment in the Crimea. Most of it is in shit shape, but not all...
The real reason Russia violated Ukraine's sovereignty
. Kinda curious what happens to Ukrainian military equipment in the Crimea. Most of it is in shit shape, but not all...
dionis- Posts : 217
Points : 218
Join date : 2012-12-13
Getting Nikolaev with unfinished Ukraina would have been the real bonus.
TR1- Posts : 5435
Points : 5433
Join date : 2011-12-06
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB2k4cmvJJ0
Tractor ramming its way into Ukrainian military base. Lots of Russian flags, music, and other patriotic crap.
I feel bad for the Ukrainian troops.
Tractor ramming its way into Ukrainian military base. Lots of Russian flags, music, and other patriotic crap.
I feel bad for the Ukrainian troops.
Werewolf- Posts : 5915
Points : 6104
Join date : 2012-10-24
TR1 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB2k4cmvJJ0
Tractor ramming its way into Ukrainian military base. Lots of Russian flags, music, and other patriotic crap.
I feel bad for the Ukrainian troops.
Everything was civil and better ukrainian military forces are overlooked by russian forces instead letting them stay under the pressure of the facists, since Ukrainian army got the order to shoot at russians and lot of just ignored it but some troops of ukrainian army are now rolling towards crimean boarder.
Austin- Posts : 7617
Points : 8014
Join date : 2010-05-08
Location : India
US and Russia exchange threats in heated UN debate on Crimea
US Ambassador to the UN Samantha Power told the General Assembly that Russia's annexation of Crimea was nothing more than a land
'A thief can steal property, but that does not confer the right of ownership on the thief,' Power said
The Russian ambassador responded by saying 'It is simply unacceptable to listen to these insults addressed to our country'
Russia called the Crimea situation 'a historic injustice [that] has been righted
Hannibal Barca- Posts : 1443
Points : 1451
Join date : 2013-12-13
AlfaT8- Posts : 2467
Points : 2458
Join date : 2013-02-02
arpakola wrote:LaW and order ..AlfaT8 wrote:Well this is unexpected.
Can somebody get some more details on this, cause it starting to look like they are forcing the Tatars out of there homes, which i hope isn't the case.MOSCOW, March 18 (RIA Novosti) – Ukraine’s breakaway region of Crimea will ask Tatars to vacate part of the land where they now live in exchange for new territory elsewhere in the region, a top Crimean government official said Tuesday.
in any civilised country the homes without licence to build are demolished , and land that has not properly bought returns to the state
tartars or everybody else they took advantage of the chaos .. well ther is no chaos any more..Austin wrote:US and Russia exchange threats in heated UN debate on Crimea
Hmmm... Article mentions some incident involving the Tatars again, i will ask again do we have any details on the situation down there.
Not some dribble about order and civilized country, but some actual info/details.
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