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    China's Military and Geopolitics

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    Podlodka77


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    Post  Podlodka77 Wed Apr 13, 2022 1:04 pm

    04/13/2022
    Lenta.ru


    The US spoke about China's surprise for Europe and NATO

    The dispatch of six Y-20 heavy military transport aircraft from China to Serbia was not only a surprise for flight trackers, but also a demonstration to NATO of China's growing global presence, in particular in Europe, writes The Drive.

    “It is likely that the People’s Liberation Army Air Force of China (PLAAF) used this delivery as a kind of demonstration of its airlift capabilities, given NATO’s ongoing efforts to transfer supplies and equipment for the military needs of Ukraine,” the publication says.

    The publication writes that in this way Beijing delivered to Belgrade, in particular, anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM) HQ-22.

    In April, the South China Morning Post wrote that Beijing had secretly delivered HQ-22 air defense systems to Belgrade.

    In December 2020, The Drive claimed that China had replaced the Russian D-30KP-2 turbofan engines used in the Y-20 with their own more powerful WS-20s.

    China's Military and Geopolitics - Page 7 Pribyt10

    https://vpk.name/news/594484_v_ssha_rasskazali_o_syurprize_kitaya_dlya_evropy_i_nato.html


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    walle83


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    Post  walle83 Thu Aug 04, 2022 3:32 pm

    China has fired several ballistic missiles into the waters around Taiwan as it launched large-scale military exercises in response to US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s visit to the self-ruled island.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/8/4/china-to-start-major-military-drills-around-taiwan

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    Post  Backman Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:09 am

    These drills are pretty impressive.

    I'm surprised that all of the air space isn't cut off though. An MH-17 scenario is easy in these conditions for the US.
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    walle83


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    Post  walle83 Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:27 am

    China shows force by surrounding the Island with several military drills.

    China's Military and Geopolitics - Page 7 495a1c10

    At the same time the US has filled the sky with reconnaissance and early warning aircraft.

    China's Military and Geopolitics - Page 7 Aug5_u10
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    Post  GarryB Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:54 pm

    US support and military build up and stupid empty gestures like visits from politicians helped prevent war in the Ukraine... it is bound to be just as effective in Taiwan... the obvious solutions are military threats and military buildups as well as sanctions and attempts to demonise and isolate their enemy should work as well as it did in Europe...
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    walle83


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    Post  walle83 Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:22 pm

    GarryB wrote:US support and military build up and stupid empty gestures like visits from politicians helped prevent war in the Ukraine... it is bound to be just as effective in Taiwan... the obvious solutions are military threats and military buildups as well as sanctions and attempts to demonise and isolate their enemy should work as well as it did in Europe...

    On the other hand China is overreacting here.

    And the difference between Ukraine and Taiwan is that the US has not made any military promises in Ukraine but they have said over and over that they will military help Taiwan if China attacks them.
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:29 pm

    walle83 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:US support and military build up and stupid empty gestures like visits from politicians helped prevent war in the Ukraine... it is bound to be just as effective in Taiwan... the obvious solutions are military threats and military buildups as well as sanctions and attempts to demonise and isolate their enemy should work as well as it did in Europe...

    On the other hand China is overreacting here.

    And the difference between Ukraine and Taiwan is that the US has not made any military promises in Ukraine but they have said over and over that they will military help Taiwan if China attacks them.

    It's not a matter of China overreacting

    But instead as in the Ukraine - it's a matter of the US overreaching. There was no necessity in US officials visiting Taiwan at this moment, as there was no necessity in constructing military bases in the Ukraine or covering for it not implementing the Minsk peace process.
    These actions are not for the benefit of US's own security - but rather altogether transparent attempt to box in those it sees as its enemies and rivals (despite them also not having threatened the US). And the reactions of those America sees as its enemies are in fact entirely predictable; they will act to break out of the trap set for them or turn the tables.

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    Post  Backman Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:52 pm

    walle83 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:US support and military build up and stupid empty gestures like visits from politicians helped prevent war in the Ukraine... it is bound to be just as effective in Taiwan... the obvious solutions are military threats and military buildups as well as sanctions and attempts to demonise and isolate their enemy should work as well as it did in Europe...

    On the other hand China is overreacting here.

    And the difference between Ukraine and Taiwan is that the US has not made any military promises in Ukraine but they have said over and over that they will military help Taiwan if China attacks them.

    China is not overreacting. China overreacted with its rhetoric. Don't show your weapon unless you are going to use it. It looks like the US plans to sail the strait again. If China bombed a runway or something symbolic would the US still do this ? Maybe. The US seems willing to go to war. Either Xi has to see if the US will settle for a 25 year lease or he has to go to war.

    The main statements of the Chinese Foreign Ministry:

    - China suspends dialogue with the United States at the level of regional military commands;

    - China cancels working meetings with representatives of the US Department of Defense;


    — China suspends cooperation with the United States in the fight against drugs;

    — China suspends Sino-US talks on climate change;

    - China suspends cooperation with the United States in the field of justice;

    — China suspends cooperation with the United States in the fight against international crime.

    China will impose sanctions on Pelosi and her immediate family due to a visit to Taiwan, the Chinese Foreign Ministry said.
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    Post  Backman Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:54 pm


    Backman
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    Post  Backman Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:59 pm

    White House National Security Council Coordinator for Strategic Communications John Kirby announced on Aug. 4 that US military "will conduct standard air and maritime transits through the Taiwan Strait in the next few weeks".

    From Taiwan mod

    PLA dispatched 68 aircraft and 13 vessels until 17:00 (UTC+Cool for the activities around Taiwan Strait, part of which had crossed the median line and jeopardized the status quo of the strait.

    https://twitter.com/MoNDefense/statu...613938688?s=19
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    walle83


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    Post  walle83 Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:30 pm

    Backman wrote:
    walle83 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:US support and military build up and stupid empty gestures like visits from politicians helped prevent war in the Ukraine... it is bound to be just as effective in Taiwan... the obvious solutions are military threats and military buildups as well as sanctions and attempts to demonise and isolate their enemy should work as well as it did in Europe...

    On the other hand China is overreacting here.

    And the difference between Ukraine and Taiwan is that the US has not made any military promises in Ukraine but they have said over and over that they will military help Taiwan if China attacks them.

    China is not overreacting. China overreacted with its rhetoric. Don't show your weapon unless you are going to use it. It looks like the US plans to sail the strait again. If China bombed a runway or something symbolic would the US still do this ? Maybe. The US seems willing to go to war.  Either Xi has to see if the US will settle for a 25 year lease or he has to go to war.

    The main statements of the Chinese Foreign Ministry:

    - China suspends dialogue with the United States at the level of regional military commands;

    - China cancels working meetings with representatives of the US Department of Defense;


    — China suspends cooperation with the United States in the fight against drugs;

    — China suspends Sino-US talks on climate change;

    - China suspends cooperation with the United States in the field of justice;

    — China suspends cooperation with the United States in the fight against international crime.

    China will impose sanctions on Pelosi and her immediate family due to a visit to Taiwan, the Chinese Foreign Ministry said.

    Looks more like China was searching for any reason to make all this happen. They are testing thier new limits as wannabe superpower. Doubt the US will change anything because of this, even with Chinas build up the last years the US is still the big dog in the Pacific.
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    Post  Backman Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:19 pm

    ^'Em. No. That's insane. Why don't people understand that nuclear powers mean what they say? China did NOT want to do any of this.

    China's Military and Geopolitics - Page 7 Dfap1wf-dd837453-ee6b-4c9c-988b-4b77f9d63467.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzY3MzJmNjNmLWQ1NGYtNDc4OS1iNGVhLWRlNGUyMTMzMmQ5NlwvZGZhcDF3Zi1kZDgzNzQ1My1lZTZiLTRjOWMtOTg4Yi00Yjc3ZjlkNjM0NjcuanBnIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0

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    Post  Werewolf Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:32 am

    Diplomacy enters the second phase. Time to speak with undeniable arguments!
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    Post  flamming_python Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:43 am

    walle83 wrote:
    Looks more like China was searching for any reason to make all this happen. They are testing thier new limits as wannabe superpower. Doubt the US will change anything because of this, even with Chinas build up the last years the US is still the big dog in the Pacific.

    China was searching for a reason to do what?

    Send Pelosi to Taiwan?

    You can't polish a turd, just as you can't excuse the string of US provocative actions in Taiwan, in Kosovo and lets see what else will happen now.

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    Post  Backman Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:40 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    walle83 wrote:
    Looks c.

    China was searching for a reason to do what?

    Send Pelosi to Taiwan?

    You can't polish a turd, just as you can't excuse the string of US provocative actions in Taiwan, in Kosovo and lets see what else will happen now.

    He thinks China was looking for a reason to do all of these hawkish actions. He's completely wrong. China bent over backwards to avoid this shit.

    Anyway

    BREAKING: China has prohibited use of the phrase "Made in Taiwan" on any product the island now exports to the mainland, and now must use the name "Chinese Taipei" or "Taiwan, China".

    Apple is asking all its suppliers to follow the regulation.

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    Post  TMA1 Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:12 am

    Guys, let a simple man like myself make all this simple. Is Ukraine and Taiwan in America's backyard? Even more, do foreign Intel agencies and NGOs that manipulate satellite nations to Russia and China help those nations, or do they help the "rules based" world order? If western politicians and talking heads wax philosophic about national sovereignty, then what are they doing using cloak and dagger subversive methods in the neighboring countries of Russia and China?

    Hmm wonder why this isnt discussed simply and clearly. Maybe these power cliques dont want people to see the forest thru the trees...

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    walle83


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    Post  walle83 Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:43 am

    Backman wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    walle83 wrote:
    Looks c.

    China was searching for a reason to do what?

    Send Pelosi to Taiwan?

    You can't polish a turd, just as you can't excuse the string of US provocative actions in Taiwan, in Kosovo and lets see what else will happen now.

    He thinks China was looking for a reason to do all of these hawkish actions. He's completely wrong. China bent over backwards to avoid this shit.

    Anyway

    BREAKING: China has prohibited use of the phrase "Made in Taiwan" on any product the island now exports to the mainland, and now must use the name "Chinese Taipei" or "Taiwan, China".

    Apple is asking all its suppliers to follow the regulation.

    Overreacting and childish.
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    Post  TMA1 Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:39 am

    Look homie. American so-called deep state cliques do foreign policy like a wary mother playing power games with her children. These neocons and neolibs dont even have the cachet of older warmongers. Their actions and reactions come across as passive aggressive and fearful. As a result Russia and China are playing at the same game. They arent stupid and thry know that the western world combined is still powerful, but it wont stop them from dishing out the behavior they are recieving.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:39 am

    On the other hand China is overreacting here.

    Are they?

    Most countries including countries in the west have accepted a one China policy all this time, even Taiwan has accepted that and not asked for or demanded independence from mainland China... after watching western behaviour around the world including in Europe, I would say China is being very reserved considering their considerable naval build up... what are all these ships for?

    And the difference between Ukraine and Taiwan is that the US has not made any military promises in Ukraine but they have said over and over that they will military help Taiwan if China attacks them.

    Perhaps you have not been paying attention but the US and the EU have been promising them HATO membership and membership to the EU for quite some time and also promising money and weapons and equipment and pretty much everything short of actual troops on the ground and if you look at what is happening there with various western special forces members being caught and some pretty high up officials being captured in some places allegedly they have been offering direct help too.

    Some claims they are manning some of their new bits of equipment they are supplying because the Orcs are not managing western uber gear and are ruining its reputation as super weapons...

    And the reactions of those America sees as its enemies are in fact entirely predictable; they will act to break out of the trap set for them or turn the tables.

    With those attempts at containment offered as proof of Russian or Chinese or Iranian or North Korean or whomevers aggression and why they need to be contained.

    Funny... put someone in solitary confinement for life for a murder they did not commit and when they kill someone breaking out of captivity that is used to prove they are killers and should be locked up...

    The arse about world of the US.

    If China bombed a runway or something symbolic would the US still do this ?

    If China bombed anything would the US be able to back down?

    They are as much trapped in this stupid games as their victims... sometimes...

    US DEFENCE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN KIRBY: US OFFICIALS MADE CLEAR TO CHINA'S AMBASSADOR THAT THE US IS PREPARED FOR WHAT BEIJING CHOOSES TO DO.

    The way they were prepared for 11/9 or their exit from Kabul or Covid... saying you are prepared for something someone else hasn't done yet and perhaps hasn't even decided what to do yet is just ignorant...

    White House National Security Council Coordinator for Strategic Communications John Kirby announced on Aug. 4 that US military "will conduct standard air and maritime transits through the Taiwan Strait in the next few weeks".

    So China should close the straits just before for training and testing anti shipping mines... so if they go ahead anyway... well if you lose a ship that is your problem...

    Looks more like China was searching for any reason to make all this happen. They are testing thier new limits as wannabe superpower.

    They are as likely to want to give up Taiwan as the US is to give up Hawaii or Alaska... learning to stand up to the bully is an important step for China...

    Doubt the US will change anything because of this, even with Chinas build up the last years the US is still the big dog in the Pacific.

    Everyone keeps saying that, but they are also a fragile paper tiger that is not ready to lose a lot of sailors to help Taiwan break away from China... or are they?


    Apple is asking all its suppliers to follow the regulation.

    Without a US government directive not to do this the majority of western companies will comply because they have too much invested in China and the Chinese market to get on their bad side.

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    Post  GarryB Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:52 am

    Is Ukraine and Taiwan in America's backyard?

    Very good point... Russia and China are repeatedly told they are not allowed a sphere of influence, but such rules do not apply to the US who has a shit fit when any country talks to central or south american countries without their permission.

    It is British aircraft complaining at being buzzed by Russian fighters on the borders of Russian airspace thousands of kms from Britain...

    Hmm wonder why this isnt discussed simply and clearly. Maybe these power cliques dont want people to see the forest thru the trees...

    Do what we tell you to do, not what we do because the rules don't apply to us.

    Such people think they lead the international community, when even the West is divided by their BS most of the time.

    Overreacting and childish.

    Simply an escalation to make the US look weak and stupid the way US actions are attempting to make China look weak and stupid.

    As a result Russia and China are playing at the same game. They arent stupid and thry know that the western world combined is still powerful, but it wont stop them from dishing out the behavior they are recieving.

    Worse... the west wants Russia and China to play their games because they hold most of the cards in such games and they set the rules.

    The result of the west playing silly buggers is that Russia and China realise they don't actually like the west and have no future together with them in their current mindset, so treat them with respect (ie very very unlikely at this stage) or just **** off... which is the most likely result.

    Russia is not going to invade all of Europe like Germany tried to do and China is not going to attack the Asia Pacific region like Japan did, both are going to get rid of pro US and pro western elements in countries they border and are interested in and the ones they can't remove they are simply going to ignore.

    That means Ukraine is going to get denazified and likely broken into lots of pieces which can choose to join the RF or remain neutral, while countries like Finland who choose to join a hostile boys club called HATO will get the ultimatum of trading in Rubles and when they refuse trade across the border will drop to either nothing or very very little... no need for embassies in such a case so close them down... if they want to talk about something they can send a message to the US embassy for any EU country related discussions.

    Russia will then look to the rest of the world to sell wood and oil and gas and uranium and titanium and aircraft and vehicles and everything else and the west can please itself and spend more on energy and resources buying them from third parties they didn't buy from before because Russian products were cheaper.

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    Post  flamming_python Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:08 pm

    Backman wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    walle83 wrote:
    Looks c.

    China was searching for a reason to do what?

    Send Pelosi to Taiwan?

    You can't polish a turd, just as you can't excuse the string of US provocative actions in Taiwan, in Kosovo and lets see what else will happen now.

    He thinks China was looking for a reason to do all of these hawkish actions. He's completely wrong. China bent over backwards to avoid this shit.

    Anyway

    BREAKING: China has prohibited use of the phrase "Made in Taiwan" on any product the island now exports to the mainland, and now must use the name "Chinese Taipei" or "Taiwan, China".

    Apple is asking all its suppliers to follow the regulation.

    I know what he thinks.

    The trouble is that buying into this line of the peaceful forces of democracy holding back the belligerent forces of tyranny who chomp at the leash for any chance to commit aggression - requires not only an increasingly convoluted train of thought, but increasingly altogether an outright suspension of disbelief

    China's only fault in this whole episode is that it burnished its image to be more confrontational than it was actually prepared to be in practice. But it could easily have turned out otherwise. This could have indeed all ended up in a war and it would have been the fault of Washington. It could lead to a war yet. China cites the need to protect its territorial integrity and indeed this is a perfectly valid argument.

    Because the provocation itself and any consequences thereof are entirely the purview of the United States. It should not have sent a senior official to Taiwan. Not at this time, not at any time, and not 20 years ago either, or whenever it was that the US in its sole defense over this episode argues "hey now we gone an' done it before and you didn't do nothin' back then".
    Just as a reminder - the US itself does not recognize Taiwan as an independent country. Neither is it at war with China. What then exactly is its business in sending any sort of government representative to a quasi-seperatist part of China, without Beijing's permission? This is a major nuclear power we're talking about; yet Washington is treating the issue as if its sending yet another senator to the part of Syria controlled by the Kurdish militia without the permission of Damascus.
    Is the US prepared for a war with China over what it itself admits is Chinese territory? Or is it a pure gamble designed to provoke a country half way around the world that has not been threatening the US? It has to be one or the other, and neither looks good. In fact the US comes across as an arrogant bully that this time has gotten away with its antics.

    And it's a similar story to what Blinken was doing in Kosovo.
    Similar story to how the Ukraine was being built up into a fortress and its army was being prepared to carry out offensive operations against the Donbass.

    These aren't defensive actions, but rather attempts to reaffirm world-wide hegemony and embroil perceived challengers to the system into bloody wars, in preference to attempting to resolve all these conflicts of interest peacefully; as indeed they all can be, or could have been - without loss of face for any side.
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    Post  Hole Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:21 pm

    https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/08/reaction-to-pelosis-visit-reveals-chinas-plans-for-a-taiwan-conflict.html#more

    China will start a SMO in a few years.

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    Post  walle83 Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:18 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    And the difference between Ukraine and Taiwan is that the US has not made any military promises in Ukraine but they have said over and over that they will military help Taiwan if China attacks them.

    Perhaps you have not been paying attention but the US and the EU have been promising them HATO membership and membership to the EU for quite some time and also promising money and weapons and equipment and pretty much everything short of actual troops on the ground and if you look at what is happening there with various western special forces members being caught and some pretty high up officials being captured in some places allegedly they have been offering direct help too.

    Some claims they are manning some of their new bits of equipment they are supplying because the Orcs are not managing western uber gear and are ruining its reputation as super weapons...

    But Ukraine arent Nato or EU members and the US or Nato had not made any insurance to help if they were attacked. Putin knew this and that made his invasion decision much easier.

    Taiwan in the other hand, well if US dont respond in case of a full Chinese invasion I would be very suprised.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:13 am

    But Ukraine arent Nato or EU members and the US or Nato had not made any insurance to help if they were attacked.

    So why all the HATO equipment going to Ukraine, why all the money from the west... why all the western special forces and high up officials visiting Ukraine both before and after the invasion helping with training?

    Why Ukrainian forces in Afghanistan helping that HATO operation?

    Ironically needing Russian help to leave that place when the US decided to leave.

    Ukraine was on partnership for peace programmes and there was plenty of talk about them joining HATO... nothing of the kind has been said about Taiwan...


    Taiwan in the other hand, well if US dont respond in case of a full Chinese invasion I would be very suprised.

    Their response would likely be exactly the same, because deep down they could care less about the Ukraine, and equally they could care less about Taiwan... what they really care about is hurting and damaging Russia and China, so they will send money and weapons and equipment but not their own bodies officially.

    On the sly they will send mercs and special forces on leave or some such other bullshit to get them live experience... but they will be disavowing any knowledge if they are captured or killed.

    I read a news report that Pelosi was visiting the chip makers in Taiwan in regard to starting chip production in the US and Pelosis husband bought up stocks of the US company that was going to get the massive subsidy from Biden to start production... Trump gave the game away on what is essentially insider trading... Pelosis husband sold the stocks at a loss and she claimed she didn't talk to him about it so it wasn't insider trading at all... yeah right...

    So that visit has already cost her some cash and Chinese sanctions against any company she or her husband are associated with will further damage her... hahahaha. Bitch... play stupid games... win stupid prizes...

    Broski likes this post


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