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42 posters

    China's Military and Geopolitics

    Mir
    Mir


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    Post  Mir Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:47 pm

    Sujoy wrote:
    China is NOT communist.

    China is a Communist country - BUT - it has a market economy. This is the reason why China is fast on it's way to becoming the number one economic power in the world. Their economic policy lifted the country out of poverty and they achieved it in less than 50 years.
    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:35 pm

    Mir wrote:China is a Communist country - BUT - it has a market economy. This is the reason why China is fast on it's way to becoming the number one economic power in the world. Their economic policy lifted the country out of poverty and they achieved it in less than 50 years.
    Market economy is prohibited under communism.

    Private ownership of productive assets like factories, educational institutions, financial institutions is not allowed under communism. However, ownership of such assets by individuals is allowed in China.

    China maybe ruled by a party that defines itself as Communist but even members of this politburo owns private assets described above.

    You cannot violate the basic tenants of an ideology and yet describe yourself as an adherent of that same ideology.

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    jhelb
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    Post  jhelb Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:55 pm

    Isos wrote:Go get a brain. What you say is way beyond stuidity. Russia to attack India which was a friend and a client for a century now for Chinese interests...
    If I find a brain I'll buy it for you. India friend/client of Russia for a century Razz Razz India did not even exist till 1947.

    India was a friend/client but now China is Russia's friend and ally and also a client. Russia need not have to fight India directly but should support China when it invades India.
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:45 pm

    Sujoy wrote:
    Market economy is prohibited under communism.

    Private ownership of productive assets like factories, educational institutions, financial institutions is not allowed under communism. However, ownership of such assets by individuals is allowed in China.

    China maybe ruled by a party that defines itself as Communist but even members of this politburo owns private assets described above.

    You cannot violate the basic tenants of an ideology and yet describe yourself as an adherent of that same ideology.  


    You contradict yourself here but never the less here is a quote from Wikipedia on the "Economy of China" >> first paragraph reads:

    "The economy of the People's Republic of China is a developing market-oriented economy that incorporates economic planning through industrial policies and strategic five-year plans. Dominated by state-owned enterprises (SOEs) and mixed-ownership enterprises, the economy also consists of a large domestic private sector and openness to foreign businesses in a system described as a socialist market economy."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_China

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Aug 14, 2021 5:23 am

    Had no doubt in my mind that you are not a Serb but rather one of those low life, low IQ people of color. Explains your fondness for Pakis.

    You misunderstand... he thinks you are a pakistani because you support a Chinese and Russian invasion to destroy India, he does not realise you are Russian.

    BTW if you take a DNA test you will find there are very few people with no colour in them... pink and white are colours too.

    First, China is NOT communist.

    Communism is a system of government and it is the system of government China uses.

    Just this year itself the European members of G7 chose not to accept the US dictum of imposing sanctions on China.

    For financial reasons, not ideological ones.

    They don't want to save China, they have a lot of money invested there and don't want to lose those, and see 1.5 billion customers for their products which is a market they don't want to cut themselves out of either.

    The US on the other hand think they can swap from 1.5 billion Chinese buying buying their crap, to 1.2 billion Indians buying their crap... it is a sacrifice they are prepared to go with. Perhaps they have worked out that Indias population is going to keep growing while the population of China might stabilise and level out.

    Corporate America itself is the biggest supporter that China has in the West, as Nike's CEO states here in this interview how important China is for Nike

    In ten years time Chinese workers are going to demand more rights and more money for the work they do and Corporate America will run to India or Bangledesh for cheap expendable labour sources... hell if the ruble is low enough they might look at shifting production to Russia... but more likely the Ukraine if they can get guarantees their money wont just disappear.

    Lessons for Russia and India - if we were large enough ( US$ 10 trillion economy), human rights, military misadventure and all the other issues for which we are chided by the West, will be a 10th order variable..

    They also sold out to those western companies and effectively screwed there own people and their own environment... western companies build factories in China because there is no red tape... ironically... you want to build a big factory on this river and pump filth directly into it... go ahead as long as lots of money comes our way we don't care... the workers will work at slave labour levels...

    China has been very clever to encourage investment and even more so those Nike factories making shoes 8 hours a day... the manager that runs the factory trains up two more shifts so the factory is running 24/7, but for the other 16 hours it makes Nukee shoes with the same materials and design but different labels which he sells to other markets for $20 a pair. It means very little mark up price but he will sell millions of shoes, and most customers wont bother to bring back shoes they paid $40 for if they only last 2 years, while with Nikes when they wear out after 2 years but cost you $300 a pair you ask for replacements and get a pair for free... which means you are still paying $150 a pair anyway.

    Pretty soon that manager has made enough money to build his own factories for making shoes and he starts getting orders and modifying the designs... and his shoes are not worse than western shit we already buy but much cheaper... though as the quality and design get better the price creeps up as wages increase...

    Market economy is prohibited under communism.

    Rubbish. Market economies have nothing to do with politics.

    China is a one party state which is a loose definition of Communism in the west. Technically you might claim they are a socialist state, but to most westerners it is the same thing.

    China maybe ruled by a party that defines itself as Communist but even members of this politburo owns private assets described above.

    My understanding of the system is that you can go for money or politics but not both, you can be rich or you can be powerful but not both.

    Sounds like a good idea to me... look at what has happened in the west... you have companies telling the US drug and food administration to make laws to allow foods made mostly of sugar to be called sugar free... how can that be in the interests of the public?

    If I find a brain I'll buy it for you. India friend/client of Russia for a century Razz Razz India did not even exist till 1947.

    Russia didn't exist between about 1918 and 1991 either and like India has been artificially fragmented assisted by those white europeans you love so much.

    India was a friend/client but now China is Russia's friend and ally and also a client. Russia need not have to fight India directly but should support China when it invades India.

    You seem sure China will not invade Russia, yet think they might invade India?

    I realise that is what the US wants, but are you really so weak willed to just believe it might be true because the US wants it to happen?

    The US also wanted Assad out and Putin out for that matter... two obvious things they have failed miserably in trying to make happen.

    The real irony is throwing white power around the place when most western europeans consider Russians to be half asian...

    It is white people in the US and UK and EU that stir up chaos and death because they make a lot of money that way... they are nothing to follow or revere.

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    walle83


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    China's Military and Geopolitics - Page 6 Empty China gives away submarines to Thailand.

    Post  walle83 Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:08 pm

    China gives away submarines to Thailand.

    https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/naval-warfare/china-to-give-second-hand-submarines-to-thailand/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=auto_post&utm_campaign=news_promo
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:14 pm

    Nothing is for free. So what did Thailand have to actually give up?

    If they are for free, damn, they got lucky. We paid lots for 3 submarines that caught on fire in the water and torpedo's to fit.
    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:51 pm

    Thailand is increasingly moving towards the Chinese sphere.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:14 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Nothing is for free.  So what did Thailand have to actually give up?

    If they are for free, damn, they got lucky.  We paid lots for 3 submarines that caught on fire in the water and torpedo's to fit.

    Very likely they opened their market to chinese companies through secret contracts. I've been in Thailand for 6 months few years ago and I can tell you US dominance there is well seen in everyday life. Biggest markets there are US 7/11.

    Most likely they will try to put a step inside Thailand to counter US positions in Asia.
    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:11 pm

    Thailand is buying all sorts of Chinese weapons systems like the Type 071 LPD, or the VT-4 tank. They used to be 100% aligned with US interests in the region but ever since the new King got into power they have stepped up a realignment towards China.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:37 am

    Smart bet honestly. While I don't trust China, I sure as he'll trust them more than US.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:46 am

    Makes sense... the US wants war and China wants to trade... it is pretty obvious which of the two would send troops to occupy Thailand at any given time.
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    walle83


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    Post  walle83 Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:39 am

    China is probably getting rid of all the old Ming-class subs, giving them away to make new allies a good deal. Also the Ming sub isnt a really threat today. More like an modifed Romeo class.
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    walle83


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    Post  walle83 Wed Feb 09, 2022 10:51 am

    China dont think Austraila will have nuclear submarines before 2038.

    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202202/1251779.shtml
    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Wed Apr 13, 2022 1:04 pm

    04/13/2022
    Lenta.ru


    The US spoke about China's surprise for Europe and NATO

    The dispatch of six Y-20 heavy military transport aircraft from China to Serbia was not only a surprise for flight trackers, but also a demonstration to NATO of China's growing global presence, in particular in Europe, writes The Drive.

    “It is likely that the People’s Liberation Army Air Force of China (PLAAF) used this delivery as a kind of demonstration of its airlift capabilities, given NATO’s ongoing efforts to transfer supplies and equipment for the military needs of Ukraine,” the publication says.

    The publication writes that in this way Beijing delivered to Belgrade, in particular, anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM) HQ-22.

    In April, the South China Morning Post wrote that Beijing had secretly delivered HQ-22 air defense systems to Belgrade.

    In December 2020, The Drive claimed that China had replaced the Russian D-30KP-2 turbofan engines used in the Y-20 with their own more powerful WS-20s.

    China's Military and Geopolitics - Page 6 Pribyt10

    https://vpk.name/news/594484_v_ssha_rasskazali_o_syurprize_kitaya_dlya_evropy_i_nato.html


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    walle83


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    Post  walle83 Thu Aug 04, 2022 3:32 pm

    China has fired several ballistic missiles into the waters around Taiwan as it launched large-scale military exercises in response to US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s visit to the self-ruled island.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/8/4/china-to-start-major-military-drills-around-taiwan

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:09 am

    These drills are pretty impressive.

    I'm surprised that all of the air space isn't cut off though. An MH-17 scenario is easy in these conditions for the US.
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    walle83


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    Post  walle83 Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:27 am

    China shows force by surrounding the Island with several military drills.

    China's Military and Geopolitics - Page 6 495a1c10

    At the same time the US has filled the sky with reconnaissance and early warning aircraft.

    China's Military and Geopolitics - Page 6 Aug5_u10
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:54 pm

    US support and military build up and stupid empty gestures like visits from politicians helped prevent war in the Ukraine... it is bound to be just as effective in Taiwan... the obvious solutions are military threats and military buildups as well as sanctions and attempts to demonise and isolate their enemy should work as well as it did in Europe...
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    Post  walle83 Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:22 pm

    GarryB wrote:US support and military build up and stupid empty gestures like visits from politicians helped prevent war in the Ukraine... it is bound to be just as effective in Taiwan... the obvious solutions are military threats and military buildups as well as sanctions and attempts to demonise and isolate their enemy should work as well as it did in Europe...

    On the other hand China is overreacting here.

    And the difference between Ukraine and Taiwan is that the US has not made any military promises in Ukraine but they have said over and over that they will military help Taiwan if China attacks them.
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:29 pm

    walle83 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:US support and military build up and stupid empty gestures like visits from politicians helped prevent war in the Ukraine... it is bound to be just as effective in Taiwan... the obvious solutions are military threats and military buildups as well as sanctions and attempts to demonise and isolate their enemy should work as well as it did in Europe...

    On the other hand China is overreacting here.

    And the difference between Ukraine and Taiwan is that the US has not made any military promises in Ukraine but they have said over and over that they will military help Taiwan if China attacks them.

    It's not a matter of China overreacting

    But instead as in the Ukraine - it's a matter of the US overreaching. There was no necessity in US officials visiting Taiwan at this moment, as there was no necessity in constructing military bases in the Ukraine or covering for it not implementing the Minsk peace process.
    These actions are not for the benefit of US's own security - but rather altogether transparent attempt to box in those it sees as its enemies and rivals (despite them also not having threatened the US). And the reactions of those America sees as its enemies are in fact entirely predictable; they will act to break out of the trap set for them or turn the tables.

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:52 pm

    walle83 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:US support and military build up and stupid empty gestures like visits from politicians helped prevent war in the Ukraine... it is bound to be just as effective in Taiwan... the obvious solutions are military threats and military buildups as well as sanctions and attempts to demonise and isolate their enemy should work as well as it did in Europe...

    On the other hand China is overreacting here.

    And the difference between Ukraine and Taiwan is that the US has not made any military promises in Ukraine but they have said over and over that they will military help Taiwan if China attacks them.

    China is not overreacting. China overreacted with its rhetoric. Don't show your weapon unless you are going to use it. It looks like the US plans to sail the strait again. If China bombed a runway or something symbolic would the US still do this ? Maybe. The US seems willing to go to war. Either Xi has to see if the US will settle for a 25 year lease or he has to go to war.

    The main statements of the Chinese Foreign Ministry:

    - China suspends dialogue with the United States at the level of regional military commands;

    - China cancels working meetings with representatives of the US Department of Defense;


    — China suspends cooperation with the United States in the fight against drugs;

    — China suspends Sino-US talks on climate change;

    - China suspends cooperation with the United States in the field of justice;

    — China suspends cooperation with the United States in the fight against international crime.

    China will impose sanctions on Pelosi and her immediate family due to a visit to Taiwan, the Chinese Foreign Ministry said.
    Backman
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    Post  Backman Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:54 pm


    Backman
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    Post  Backman Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:59 pm

    White House National Security Council Coordinator for Strategic Communications John Kirby announced on Aug. 4 that US military "will conduct standard air and maritime transits through the Taiwan Strait in the next few weeks".

    From Taiwan mod

    PLA dispatched 68 aircraft and 13 vessels until 17:00 (UTC+Cool for the activities around Taiwan Strait, part of which had crossed the median line and jeopardized the status quo of the strait.

    https://twitter.com/MoNDefense/statu...613938688?s=19
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    Post  walle83 Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:30 pm

    Backman wrote:
    walle83 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:US support and military build up and stupid empty gestures like visits from politicians helped prevent war in the Ukraine... it is bound to be just as effective in Taiwan... the obvious solutions are military threats and military buildups as well as sanctions and attempts to demonise and isolate their enemy should work as well as it did in Europe...

    On the other hand China is overreacting here.

    And the difference between Ukraine and Taiwan is that the US has not made any military promises in Ukraine but they have said over and over that they will military help Taiwan if China attacks them.

    China is not overreacting. China overreacted with its rhetoric. Don't show your weapon unless you are going to use it. It looks like the US plans to sail the strait again. If China bombed a runway or something symbolic would the US still do this ? Maybe. The US seems willing to go to war.  Either Xi has to see if the US will settle for a 25 year lease or he has to go to war.

    The main statements of the Chinese Foreign Ministry:

    - China suspends dialogue with the United States at the level of regional military commands;

    - China cancels working meetings with representatives of the US Department of Defense;


    — China suspends cooperation with the United States in the fight against drugs;

    — China suspends Sino-US talks on climate change;

    - China suspends cooperation with the United States in the field of justice;

    — China suspends cooperation with the United States in the fight against international crime.

    China will impose sanctions on Pelosi and her immediate family due to a visit to Taiwan, the Chinese Foreign Ministry said.

    Looks more like China was searching for any reason to make all this happen. They are testing thier new limits as wannabe superpower. Doubt the US will change anything because of this, even with Chinas build up the last years the US is still the big dog in the Pacific.

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