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    China's Military and Geopolitics

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    walle83


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    Post  walle83 04/05/21, 03:31 am

    "US accepts China’s peacekeepers in Africa but wary of military moves"

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3132150/us-welcomes-chinas-peacekeepers-africa-wary-beijings-military
    George1
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    Post  George1 03/06/21, 02:02 am

    U.S. worries about risk of Chinese naval base in Cambodia

    https://en.topwar.ru/183618-ssha-obespokoeny-riskom-pojavlenija-voenno-morskoj-bazy-kitaja-v-kambodzhe.html
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    andalusia


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    Post  andalusia 05/07/21, 10:39 pm

    These are interesting articles about China struggling to target buyers for their fighter jets:

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/06/30/china-fighter-jets-aircraft-exports/

    https://asiatimes.com/2019/07/why-doesnt-anyone-want-chinese-fighter-jets/

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    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot 06/07/21, 01:51 pm

    There are loads of reasons for Chinese jets not selling. For a long time the weapons they offered were not competitive. For a long time they produced no modern engines. The weapons were not combat proven. We could go on. Only recently did China manage to produce the WS-10 engine for the J-10 and still not enough for their own requirements. Countries which buy the JF-17 risk having issues with Russian engine supply in the future. Yes, it could happen. Imagine Russia decides the JF-17 is stealing MiG-35 sales and denies engine sales like they did with components for the Ukrainian T-84 which competed against T-90 sales in the past. The US regularly sabotages Chinese weapons deals also like they did in Turkey with their SAM systems purchase.

    Still, the Chinese have had some (limited) success with weapons sales recently. For example their VT-4 tank has exported in reasonable numbers to Pakistan and Thailand for example.

    Thailand is emerging as a major Chinese weapons purchaser right next to Pakistan. They purchase tanks and ships. They have been leaving US orbit ever since this latest king came into power. Thailand evaluated the J-10 also but decided against it and purchased the JAS 39 Gripen instead. Do not be too surprised if they purchase Chinese fighters sometime in the future.

    China has as weapons clients Pakistan, Thailand, Bangladesh, and Nigeria basically. These countries often buy Chinese weapons systems. Of these Thailand is leaving the US orbit and Bangladesh has a rapidly growing economy which might lead to more significant sales in the future.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB 07/07/21, 12:05 am

    Huge amount of competition in arms sales... Russia and the west generally have the advantage over China that much of their stuff is combat proven and tested with customers available for future customers to talk to.

    It is also quite hard to find solid information about what China actually has in service and what it intends to put into service and what is supposed to be for export only.

    Export only stuff always struggles for sales because if the home country doesn't want it or need it then why buy it.

    The Chinese are not stupid and they can look at arms sales and the different customers and look at why they bought this or that product.

    Most of the time arms purchases have very little to do with the quality or performance of the product itself... just look at America and her bitches... F-5s for the isolated and poor, F-16s for the richer ones... these days F-35 for the richer ones and soon F-15s for the richer ones no doubt and some upgraded F-16 modification further in the future.

    Oil rich Venezuela got F-16s and Argentina got Skyhawks...
    Finty
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    Post  Finty 07/07/21, 03:32 pm

    You mention F16s, at one time (during the carter years) the intention was to sell poorer performing versions of it for export but this policy was ditched by the time Reagan was in charge.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB 08/07/21, 06:15 am

    Yes, the F-5 and to be F-20 was to be the export fighter, but western allies wanted F-16s...

    The F-5 was not a bad fighter and the F-20 was interesting...
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    Post  lancelot 08/07/21, 11:47 am

    I think he is talking about the putrid F-16/79. An F-16 with J79 jet engine. This was supposed to be a competitor to the F-20 Tigershark.

    China's Military and Geopolitics - Page 5 F167910

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    Finty
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    China's Military and Geopolitics - Page 5 Empty These are interesting articles about China struggling to target buyers for their fighter jets:

    Post  Finty 08/07/21, 12:03 pm

    lancelot wrote:I think he is talking about the putrid F-16/79. An F-16 with J79 jet engine. This was supposed to be a competitor to the F-20 Tigershark.

    China's Military and Geopolitics - Page 5 F167910


    That's the one, thanks. I'd overlooked that it was called that.

    First read about it World Air Power Journal vol 5 which mentions that it was Carter who reversed the policy in 1980 to allow the F16A/B to be sold to foreign customers instead of the J79.
    RTN
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    Post  RTN 08/08/21, 08:36 am

    This piece for RT about China's growing nuclear arsenal, was written by an ex US military guy. Several inconsistencies though. I'll highlight the most important ones:

    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/530908-us-china-nuclear-arms-race/

    "If, however, the Chinese were to complete the two new silo bases and fill them with DF-41s, each of which armed with 10 warheads, then the US and China could negotiate mutually acceptable reductions based on strategic parity."

    Except that'd be 2000 warheads, not including other Chinese ICBM warheads, or SLBM warheads, or air-delivered warheads. The US has around 1700 deployed between ICBMs and SLBMs, also not including however many are available for bombers, fighters, etc.

    200 alleged DF-41s with 10 alleged warheads apiece doesn't equate to parity, it equates to a potential numerical advantage in terms of warhead count. In reality though the DF-41 is likely to employ fewer than 10 warheads for numerous reasons, such as possibly taking up space on the bus for penaids, using larger warheads, etc.

    And while we're at it, claiming China is engaging in an arms race when what they're really doing is attempting to achieve strategic parity is a stretch.

    "US-China nuclear reduction talks, however, are impractical when one compares the relative threat posed by 200-plus Chinese ground-based ICBMs, and the US arsenal of several thousand strategic warheads housed in a nuclear triad consisting of silo-based ICBMs, submarine-launched ballistic missiles and air-delivered nuclear weapons."

    Well, if those 200 ICBMs are all DF-41s, then as he claims that's 2000 warheads there alone. It's also remarkably convenient that there's no mention in that statement of any Chinese SLBM or air-delivered nuclear capacity. It's almost like it was ignored on purpose...
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB 08/08/21, 08:58 pm

    The point is that previously China was happy having enough nukes to give another country a damn good punch in the face that knocks them to the floor and requires stitches, but the US wasn't happy with that, so they started basing weapons in Japan and South Korea to encircle and "contain" China.

    Of course China is going to realise the US now represents a real threat and look at what weapons and systems they have and realise that its self defence slap is not going to be good enough against a super power like the US and its cronies.

    Of course China is going to want at least parity, and indeed superiority to prevent the US doing something stupid.

    The US is bound by agreements in Europe, but China isn't, which led to the US lying about Russia breaking the INF treaty and withdrawing from it... which ironically has made Russias hand much much stronger in Europe because IRBMs and IRCMs are very very effective weapons of war and you need a very decent IADS if you want to face an enemy well equipped with such weapons. HATO IADS is poor and fragmented and no where near unified and totally air based and therefore vulnerable. Russia has an excellent IADS that is only getting better and better as new systems are added and new radars and sensors and lines of communication are added.

    Since the end of the INF treaty the speed with which they were able to put Tomahawk cruise missiles in AEGIS ASHORE shows which side was being dishonest and breaking the treaty rules... about 16 days after the US withdrew they tested their first Tomahawk cruise missile from those launchers that were not supposed to be able to load cruise missiles. Who knows how many extra days they waited before the test to make it look like work had to be done for the launch... probably 15 or 16 I would say.

    The result now is that China can waste some money on weapons they hopefully will never use but the US gave them no choice and forced their hand... they can certainly afford it, while the US probably can't... they have effectively just doubled the number of ICBMs pointed at the US... are you feeling safer now?
    Sujoy
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    China's Military and Geopolitics - Page 5 Empty China and Russia are holding one of the largest military drills.

    Post  Sujoy 11/08/21, 10:02 am

    China and Russia are holding one of the largest military drills.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/10/china-and-russia-hold-large-scale-joint-military-drills

    PLA's is fielding their Western Theatre Command in these drills. PLA's Western Theatre Command is an Indian specific command and is the largest command of the PLA.

    China is not just sending a message to India but is probably also trying to figure out of their Western Theatre Command is battle hardned enough

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    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 11/08/21, 12:28 pm

    Sujoy wrote:China and Russia are holding one of the largest military drills.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/10/china-and-russia-hold-large-scale-joint-military-drills

    PLA's is fielding their Western Theatre Command in these drills. PLA's Western Theatre Command is an Indian specific command and is the largest command of the PLA.

    China is not just sending a message to India but is probably also trying to figure out of their Western Theatre Command is battle hardned enough

    I'm no fan of communist china but India has seemed to jump west very fast. No wonder it might spook russia.

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    jhelb
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    Post  jhelb 12/08/21, 12:28 am

    TMA1 wrote:I'm no fan of communist china but India has seemed to jump west very fast. No wonder it might spook russia.
    Agree! Russia should support China in its effort to invade India.

    India today is a failed state with more than a billion people who are now migrating in millions to Russia, other parts of Europe and North America thereby putting tremendous pressure on the resources and culture of those countries.

    If China invades India at least 300-500 miillion people can be wiped out who are mostly useless and a huge liability on the free world.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB 12/08/21, 01:15 am

    India wants the investment that the west gave China to make her rich and powerful, but I suspect a lot of that money will go to Bangledesh because they would be even cheaper.

    If China invades India at least 300-500 miillion people can be wiped out who are mostly useless and a huge liability on the free world.

    All the core problems of the world come from the west... destroying that would be an even better move, but probably not necessary as it is destroying itself.

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    jhelb
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    Post  jhelb 12/08/21, 03:02 am

    GarryB wrote:India wants the investment that the west gave China to make her rich and powerful, but I suspect a lot of that money will go to Bangledesh because they would be even cheaper.

    If China invades India at least 300-500 miillion people can be wiped out who are mostly useless and a huge liability on the free world.

    All the core problems of the world come from the west... destroying that would be an even better move, but probably not necessary as it is destroying itself.
    If the West is destroyed third world states like India and Bangladesh will also be doomed. Neither Bangladesh nor India will receive any investment from West in manufacturing because the West has largely automated manufacturing.

    Anyways, my point was Russia & China teaming up militarily against failed states like India is a commendable development that we all should support. I would encourage Kremlin & Beijing to break India up into smaller states that are more manageable and a number of these states will be pro Russia.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon 12/08/21, 09:19 am

    jhelb wrote:
    TMA1 wrote:I'm no fan of communist china but India has seemed to jump west very fast. No wonder it might spook russia.
    Agree! Russia should support China in its effort to invade India. ...

    How about you paki losers grow some balls and go for it yourselves? Razz

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos 12/08/21, 10:06 am

    Then Russia should give all its tanks so that China can invade Siberia too ?

    Most stupid comment reward go to this guy lol1 .

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    Broski
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    Post  Broski 12/08/21, 10:56 am

    If China invades India at least 300-500 miillion people can be wiped out who are mostly useless and a huge liability on the free world.
    The Free World™? So you want China to kill 500 million Indians for the benefit of the West?

    Anyways, my point was Russia & China teaming up militarily against failed states like India is a commendable development that we all should support.
    Who's we? You and the cockroach under your desk?

    I would encourage Kremlin & Beijing to break India up into smaller states that are more manageable and a number of these states will be pro Russia.
    Maybe you should sell this sales pitch to the United States & the UK, whom have a long, sordid history of genocide, regime change and breaking up countries, kingdoms and empires into dysfunctional statelets instead of begging Russia and China to literally kill millions of their consumers and trading partners.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs 12/08/21, 02:03 pm

    Russia has no need to make an enemy out of India. India is free to flirt with the US. It will eventually realize that there are
    few benefits.

    jhelb
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    Post  jhelb 12/08/21, 11:54 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:How about you paki losers grow some balls and go for it yourselves? Razz
    Had no doubt in my mind that you are not a Serb but rather one of those low life, low IQ people of color. Explains your fondness for Pakis.

    Isos wrote:Then Russia should give all its tanks so that China can invade Siberia too ?

    Most stupid comment reward go to this guy lol1 .
    China has more tanks than Russia has. And has zero plans to invade Russia. Frenchies find hard to understand things as usual.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB 13/08/21, 02:38 am

    If the West is destroyed third world states like India and Bangladesh will also be doomed. Neither Bangladesh nor India will receive any investment from West in manufacturing because the West has largely automated manufacturing.

    Western investment in China has made her rich and powerful but it was totally unintentional and not the sort of thing they like to do normally.

    The game is to build factories in poor countries with cheap expendable labour... anyone is killed in the factory disappears and is replaced... no court cases... maybe $50 for the family in compensation... that is why they "invest" there it is essentially using slave labour to make lots of money on cheap crap.

    The west has rigged the world economy to penalise poor countries and limit their ability to grow and develop and be independent... getting rid of the west would be the best possible thing for all independent countries of the world...

    Anyways, my point was Russia & China teaming up militarily against failed states like India is a commendable development that we all should support.

    Breaking India up into little pieces would only create a whole lot of weak shitholes that could each turn into Afghanistan over night and would not benefit Russia or China in any way or form.

    Amusing you think Russia and China should act like the US in a regime change mission to fix the world...

    I would encourage Kremlin & Beijing to break India up into smaller states that are more manageable and a number of these states will be pro Russia.

    Start with the US and EU and I would agree, but there is no need... they seem to be doing it for themselves.

    Russia has no need to make an enemy out of India. India is free to flirt with the US. It will eventually realize that there are
    few benefits.

    70% of their military stuff is Soviet or Russian, so they are still a very important customer even if idiots on both sides do like to run off at the mouth a bit.

    There is only one country seeking conflict between China and India and that is the US because they probably fear them both and want each to weaken the other in some pointless conflict...

    The US ordered Canada to arrest a CEO of Huawei... that was all it took to turn Canada against China, but now everything is Chinas fault in China Canada relations... the US isn't that smart... why are Canada and India so stupid?

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    Post  Sujoy 13/08/21, 05:24 am

    TMA1 wrote:I'm no fan of communist china but India has seemed to jump west very fast. No wonder it might spook russia.
    First, China is NOT communist.

    That aside, you seem to think that the West is not pro China. Just this year itself the European members of G7 chose not to accept the US dictum of imposing sanctions on China.

    Corporate America itself is the biggest supporter that China has in the West, as Nike's CEO states here in this interview how important China is for Nike

    https://twitter.com/CNBCClosingBell/status/1423368894492954626?s=20

    Lessons for Russia and India - if we were large enough ( US$ 10 trillion economy), human rights, military misadventure and all the other issues for which we are chided by the West, will be a 10th order variable..

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    Post  Isos 13/08/21, 05:35 am

    jhelb wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:How about you paki losers grow some balls and go for it yourselves? Razz
    Had no doubt in my mind that you are not a Serb but rather one of those low life, low IQ people of color. Explains your fondness for Pakis.

    Isos wrote:Then Russia should give all its tanks so that China can invade Siberia too ?

    Most stupid comment reward go to this guy lol1 .
    China has more tanks than Russia has. And has zero plans to invade Russia. Frenchies find hard to understand things as usual.

    Go get a brain. What you say is way beyond stuidity. Russia to attack India which was a friend and a client for a century now for Chinese interests...

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    Post  Mir 13/08/21, 06:32 am

    jhelb wrote:

    India today is a failed state with more than a billion people who are now migrating in millions to Russia, other parts of Europe and North America thereby putting tremendous pressure on the resources and culture of those countries.

    If China invades India at least 300-500 miillion people can be wiped out who are mostly useless and a huge liability on the free world.

    Do you even realize that India is a nuclear power? For China (or Russia) to invade India would be a very costly affair...on both sides. Fortunately neither the Chinese nor the Russians would be that stupid - giving the West a front seat row in witnessing the total destruction of these countries. They would love that! Laughing

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