UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life

nomadski wrote: A ship of Robots, traveling at high, sub - light speed, using solar sails, may colonise the Galaxy in a matter of few thousand years.

No way. I suspect ETs have means of travel enabling them to do that no way we could do it with current technology. Sagan once estimated a single civilization, using means known to us, could colonize the galaxy in a billion years.

Nor do I redicule, or think crazy, some people, who say that they have seen truly strange craft and occupants. I think many people report accurately what they experience.

Sure, and many witnesses are quite credible.

And as I said government should put money into SETI, to build better telescopes for detection of intelligent life in universe. Not just stupid microbes on Mars.

SETI reflects a failure of imagination, as it assumes ET civilizations, no matter how much older, communicate via radio just like us rank beginners…Better than either SETI or Mars missions would be more exoplanet research.

What I despise is this phenomenon being misused by all those selling books and TV programmes and  hoaxers after ego trip. But worse of all, is the misuse by military itself. To misdirect……

As long as there's a coverup, misuse is only to be expected. The idea is to make the whole subject look foolish, and thereby weaken those seeking disclosure.

There were many instances when ETs hurriedly left the area after being spotted, so not all encounters r meant to be deliberate.
FYI, it's against the rules to post personal blogs here.

You say, in this blog, that alien beings exist on Earth. Interacting with humans. But that these images of them are mere projections. So as to get humanity used to their reality or presence.


I tend to agree. Even if we reject many events as highly improbable, or as having much more plausible Earthly explanations. Still many cases remain, that leave the probability of actual alien visitations.


However, I think that they are trying to remain hidden. For many good reasons, concerned with their own survival . But that their technology is not fool proof. It costs them in energy terms to remain cloaked. So at times we may glimpse reality.

As to their ability to travel in space. Faster than light. I think like you, that our understanding is still not complete. That Newton was replaced by Einstein. And in turn will be replaced by others. I don't think that the universe is a prison.

When I said SETI should be supported. I think this to be one effective way for detection. However as you said, other observatories using different methods to detect signatures of chemicals on exo - planets are also effective.

https://www.spaceflightinsider.com/missions/the-genesis-project-sending-interstellar-probes-to-seed-life-on-exoplanets/



And :

Similar solar sailing launch and capture were suggested for directed panspermia to expand life in other solar system. Velocities of 0.05% the speed of light could be obtained by solar sails carrying 10 kg payloads, using thin solar sail vehicles with effective areal densities of 0.1 g/m2 with thin sails of 0.1 µm thickness and sizes on the order of one square kilometer. Alternatively, swarms of 1 mm capsules could be launched on solar sails with radii of 42 cm, each carrying 10,000 capsules of a hundred million extremophile microorganisms to seed life in diverse target environments.[30][31]

Theoretical studies suggeset relativistic speeds if the solar sail harnesses a supernova.[32]

I was thinking that, soon we can locate Earth mark II. Then send swarm of nanites on solar sail. On arrival then nanites build artificial womb. Grow human inside from seed ,  and arrange into larger Robot. Care for it, until it can fend for itself......


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_sail

Tsavo Lion wrote:There were many instances when ETs hurriedly left the area after being spotted, so not all encounters r meant to be deliberate.

I get into that in my book. ETs want to be seen, but only briefly, as part of slow familiarization. But they must not make this purpose too obvious, so some appear to be here for other reasons like study.

nomadski wrote:You say, in this blog, that alien beings exist on Earth. Interacting with humans. But that these images of them are mere projections. So as to get humanity used to their reality or presence.

Some may be mere projections but many appear to be real, for example the one that knocked a Marine down.

I tend to agree. Even if we reject many events as highly improbable, or as having much more plausible Earthly explanations. Still many cases remain, that leave the probability of actual alien visitations.

As a rule UFO witnesses tend to be believable, as they include professors, policemen etc.

However, I think that they are trying to remain hidden. For many good reasons, concerned with their own survival . But that their technology is not fool proof. It costs them in energy terms to remain cloaked. So at times we may glimpse reality.

I think the best explanation is slow familiarization. They appear but only for short periods, as they don't want us to be certain of them yet.

As to their ability to travel in space. Faster than light. I think like you, that our understanding is still not complete. That Newton was replaced by Einstein. And in turn will be replaced by others. I don't think that the universe is a prison.

In view of our rapidly accelerating progress, it's amazing that some people, even some scientists, talk like our understanding of physics is the last word.

When I said SETI should be supported. I think this to be one effective way for detection. However as you said, other observatories using different methods to detect signatures of chemicals on exo - planets are also effective.

I have serious doubts about SETI but exoplanet research has a lot of promise.

The aliens punched marine in face? Well maybe they have TV, and watch Earth movies. They think, this is customary Earth greeting. LOL.


https://youtu.be/qjh_YGrtN9k


But on SETI. I agree that advanced aliens probably have evolved other ways to communicate. Since, if they can travel faster than light speed to be here. Then no point in sending signals at slower speed. But I am talking about picking up signals from compatible or similar civilizations to our own. Those that use Radio. I think Radio still offers vast improvements to sending smoke signals. But I don't think we have been listening long enough. And it is unfair that they do not get funding. But to communicate with Amazonian tribes, that use smoke signals, we have to use smoke signals. Since they have no Radio yet. It is horses for courses.


If as you say aliens have agenda of slow familiarization. Then I think aim achieved already. If they land on white House lawn and give us cure for cancer. Then excitement for a few weeks. Or months. People wear alien T shirts. Oh but wait, they already did that! No big deal. If they are reading this post. As I think they are. Then I suggest that they come out of cloaked ship.............

nomadski wrote:
The aliens punched marine in face?  Well maybe they have TV, and watch Earth movies. They think, this is customary Earth greeting

Lol, IMO they know all about us.

But on SETI……. I am talking about picking up signals from compatible or similar civilizations to our own.

I tend to doubt they currently exist. Civilization has existed here for only a few thousand years. In the cosmic scheme of things, we're mere beginners. The difference between no civilization and advanced civilization is maybe 10,000 years--a blink of an eye considering the age of the Universe. I think it's safe to assume that virtually all ET civilizations are considerably older.

If as you say aliens have agenda of slow familiarization. Then I think aim achieved already….

They've made progress toward the goal but haven't achieved it yet.

One reason, stated for lack of detection of Radio signals, was given as there being very few developed and old planetary systems. Given the age of universe of 14.5 Billion years. And lifespan of universe, when new galaxies form, from few hundred to many thousand billion years. Then our Earth could be one of the oldest planets with Radio tech. A planet with age of 12 Billion years, is considered very old !  Seeing intelligent life here took so long. Some 4.5 Billion years. Almost a third of age of the universe. Then universe is still a baby. Not many developed planets out there. As we expect. We could be the first of the few.

But you are right, I think about short span of intelligent life, being a matter of a few thousand years. This limits greatly the chances of two intersecting light cones. But doing nothing is not an option. One way SETI can maintain it's activity. Is to diversify it's use of telescopes into commercial sphere and telecommunications. That way, it will pay for itself. Keep itself going for as long as possible. Or design telescopes that work in more generalised way. In general astronomy. And people and university can purchase time on their system. They can become a PLC.

The actual benefit to humanity , of open contact with advanced ET, will surely outweigh any potential social disruption. This I think is an easy calculus. Therefore in the absence of open contact by alien benefactors, sadly it is safe to assume that ET are at best neutral to our plight or worse ( as it seems)  may be in an exploitative situation as regards the taking of samples and unborn hybrids.  If we are to accept the evidence in it's entirety.  


But this scenario does not attract people, in a godless age.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSR_B1620%E2%88%9226_b

nomadski wrote:…. Given the age of universe of 14.5 Billion years.

I thought it was 13.7 billion.

We could be the first of the few.

If every UFO report were false.

But you are right, I think about short span of intelligent life, being a matter of a few thousand years. This limits greatly the chances of two intersecting light cones. But doing nothing is not an option. One way SETI can maintain it's activity. Is to diversify it's use of telescopes into commercial sphere and telecommunications. That way, it will pay for itself. Keep itself going for as long as possible. Or design telescopes that work in more generalised way. In general astronomy. And people and university can purchase time on their system. They can become a PLC.

Exoplanet research and UFO research may be enough.

The actual benefit to humanity , of open contact with advanced ET, will surely outweigh any potential social disruption.

As I pointed out to the CT MUFON Director long ago, it's easy for lay people, who know little if anything about what's covered up, to make such a claim. Those with much more knowledge obviously don't agree.

Therefore in the absence of open contact by alien benefactors, sadly it is safe to assume that ET are at best neutral to our plight or worse ( as it seems)  may be in an exploitative situation as regards the taking of samples and unborn hybrids.  If we are to accept the evidence in it's entirety.  

IMO ETs don't really need anything from our world and such activities like many ET statements are deceptive.

If every UFO report were false.

For all we known many UFOs could be projections from other galaxies from places that have existed for rather longer than the earth has... just look at our exponential development rate... I mean the first guy to fly could have met the first man in space and the first man on the moon... in terms of progress then progress feeds progress... I have progressed so far because I stand on the shoulders of giants...

As long as we don't kill ourselves imagine what things could be like in 500 years of peaceful development... or more importantly 500 years of knowing a hostile alien species is on its way so we better get our shit together and grow up and develop some fantastic stuff before they get here... it is sad that only though war or some threat that real development accelerates...

Equally UFO reports might be glimpses from the future of ourselves...

The point is that if they were aliens from another planet then we would not be calling them unidentified...

@ starman

Agree about date of 13.7 Billion years, as start date of universe. A mental error on my part. Confusing 4.5  figure in my head. A very short time ago. All reports could relate to only one civilization. If not the first of the few, but the first few. Like us. Exoplanets and ET research, may tell us where they are. But how do we send a post card? Since we can not easily go there. Plus having technology like that, by say Russia or China or Iran, will enable constant monitoring of any new secret GPS  signals by yank, and enable jamming at an instant. A SETI, trading freely under PLC, could sell this technology, to bring parity and peace to the world. Alien or otherwise. LOL.

You assume I am a lay person. And others are experts. But unless they state their reason. And win the argument, then claiming superior knowledge alone, will not wash!  I stand by what I said. We can not pick the data that fits our story. To confuse the public or start a new religion. Or sell books about benevolent and ever so shy aliens.

If as you say, ET does not need anything from our world, then there is no point in visiting. Even if they exist. They are not here. And it is all in our imagination. But I think they are probably here. Hidden. And evil. Taking from us.

@ GarryB

Agree that, we assume that ET are from outer space. They could be trans- dimensional beings. We simply do not know for sure. But we should look for all of them, ET or otherwise , using all the tech we have.

nomadski wrote:Exoplanets and ET research, may tell us where they are.

The latter could tell us much more.

But how do we send a post card? Since we can not easily go there.

No need. There are good grounds fore thinking ET is here.

You assume I am a lay person. And others are experts. But unless they state their reason. And win the argument, then claiming superior knowledge alone, will not wash!  

I meant that those behind the coverup, who know the exact nature of what is hidden, clearly--and probably for a good reason--stubbornly continue their obscurantism.

If as you say, ET does not need anything from our world, then there is no point in visiting. Even if they exist. They are not here. And it is all in our imagination. But I think they are probably here. Hidden. And evil. Taking from us.

I meant they don't need our genes or various common commodities. IMO their real purpose is guiding our development.

Agree that, we assume that ET are from outer space. They could be trans- dimensional beings….

Whatever the phenomenon represents it clearly wants us to think it's ET. Almost invariably, the phenomenon consists of flying machines or things associated with them. Why would "beings from our future" or "trans-dimensional beings" almost always go up and away?

Why would "beings from our future" or "trans-dimensional beings" almost always go up and away?

Because they might want us to think they come from heaven instead of from hell if they went down and disappeared in to the ground... remember we are idiots to them.... primitives.

Of course if they actually wanted us to know they could tell us... they seem to have their reasons for not saying... perhaps to prevent us from banning research into technologies that lead to their ability to project...

Maybe they are hijacking things... they are promoting UFO sightings and UFO hysteria so they will get people to go around and collect data on strange contacts... once it gets on to the internet they can look for it in the far flung future and work out where they can safely appear and be seen without upsetting history...

Remember it would not just be time travel it would be space travel too... if you go back in time at this exact point in space then you will appear in empty space with the earth billions of kms away because the earth has moved during that gap in time... get the numbers even a little bit out and you might find yourself in the centre of the planet or 10,000km up in the atmosphere....

We can not say, in these cases that we know ET is here. Since there is no proof. Only testimony and circumstantial evidence. We can only assign a probability. That is what I say. It is merely probable. How probable, I can not calculate. Truly unexplained cases perhaps 1%.

But we do know that many cases are simply mistaken identity. Perhaps 95 % of cases. Atmospheric phenomena. And we do know that many cases are fabrications. To sell books. Or TV programmes. Or an ego trip.

And we do know that many cases, are misinformation by the military, to misdirect us in following and spending money on wrong tech. Like anti - gravity drive. Or to hide military equipment or manouvers. Like putting false image of plane on TV, and claiming it to be unidentified. Or to push us away from important tech. Like building Radio telescopes that can decipher GPS signals or sattelite communications. Or building optical telescopes to spot their military sattelite in orbit. Perhaps 3 %.


And we can say that the remaining 1% of cases are probably sleep paralysis. And repressed momories of people who remember surgical procedures, in their sleep. And mistake them for ET. Or psychological events concerned with the collective unconscious.

So in the case of the 1%, truly unexplained cases. There should be accurate information gathering. As the probability that these are also either misidentifications or misinformation by the Yanks exist. In the remote case that these might be evil or good ET, or transdimensionals. Then we can by definition do nothing about it. So no point worrying.

nomadski wrote:
We can not say, in these cases that we know ET is here. Since there is no proof.

No conclusive proof, as far as laymen know.

Only testimony and circumstantial evidence.

There is some physical evidence, and photos.

But we do know that many cases are simply mistaken identity. Perhaps 95 % of cases. Atmospheric phenomena

Or astronomical. But there are many reports from experienced observers who tend not to make such mistakes.

And we do know that many cases, are misinformation by the military, to misdirect us in following and spending money on wrong tech.

To impart misleading ideas about ETs themselves.

And repressed momories of people who remember surgical procedures, in their sleep. And mistake them for ET.

Did the Hills have surgery prior to their abduction? And they were on the road not in bed...

So in the case of the 1%, truly unexplained cases. There should be accurate information gathering. As the probability that these are also either misidentifications or misinformation by the Yanks exist. In the remote case that  these might be evil or good ET, or transdimensionals. Then we can by definition do nothing about it. So no point worrying.

As we continue to progress rapidly, we might be able to do something perhaps by 2050-2100. And regardless, inevitably many people will strive to know the truth.
[/quote]

Well, again dividing the population between expert and non expert, does not prove ET exist. The truth, is one where all accept it to be. Like saying the moon exists. Is true. Everybody can see it and accept it. Some minority expert population, knowing ET, exists. Does not prove they exist. Even if they actually exist. The photo are not conclusive. Someone said once, why is it that ALL UFO photo are out of focus or grainy?  So called alien implants can all be normal Earth material that enter the body or ingested. There is always Earthly explanations for physical trace evidence. Almost all cases that I know of. Leaving only one or two with very odd characteristics. Scrap metal dump in Russia, containing old springs and ball bearings! Lighting strikes causing formation of glass cones on the ground. Bits of tools stuck in feet or hands. Experienced observers may not make as many mistakes. But they do make false statements. Postman late for work, claiming abduction by aliens. Lumberjacks in Forest, playing joke on victim, stripping naked and possibly assaulting and abandoning. Blaming UFO for abduction. Young guards on military camp with nukes, bringing women on base in woods and smoking pot and drinking alcohol. Blaming UFO for absence from post, around Christmas's time. Blaming UFO. Mixed couple in 60's USA, pulling into side Road , and there being assaulted by Racists and raped. Only later to blame ET. For all these cases, there are much more probable Earthly explanations.


https://www.iep.utm.edu/truth/

nomadski wrote: Someone said once, why is it that ALL UFO photo are out of focus or grainy?  

Not true of McMinnville, and others.

There is always Earthly explanations for physical trace evidence. Almost all cases that I know of.

No. Like a guy growing a new set of teeth after an encounter, or a very heavy weight and burned area on railroad tracks where a strange object was observed to land.

Lumberjacks in Forest, playing joke on victim, stripping naked and possibly assaulting and abandoning. Blaming UFO for abduction.

If Walton was the victim of his coworkers he wouldn't have disappeared for days and blamed aliens. He'd call the cops and press charges.The others btw testified they saw the strange luminous UFO strike Walton.

Young guards on military camp with nukes, bringing women on base in woods and smoking pot and drinking alcohol. Blaming UFO for absence from post, around Christmas's time.

An officer, Col. Halt, was among those who provided testimony.

Mixed couple in 60's USA, pulling into side Road , and there being assaulted by Racists and raped.

Again, they would've called the police not made up a story about aliens.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/jun/15/scientists-say-most-likely-number-of-contactable-alien-civilisations-is-36

A few dozen is realistic IMO. But I think most are considerably older, can travel LYs fast and have long ceased use of radio. It's possible the whole UFO phenomenon represents a single one, in our area of the galaxy.

https://scitechdaily.com/kepler-space-telescope-reveals-as-many-as-six-billion-earth-like-planets-in-our-galaxy/

their distribution isn't uniform: closer to the center & edges of the galaxy their # may increase or decrease- Kepler telescope only recorded stars in between the center & the outer edge, on our side of the galaxy. So, the total # may be + or - a few billion planets.
But intel. life can exist on super earth sized planets or large moons near giant gaseous planets.

Tsavo Lion wrote:…. Kepler telescope only recorded stars in between the center & the outer edge,

For a good reason. Galactic-center stars may be so near one another close approaches could disrupt planetary orbits. Those at the edge may be metal deficient.

But intel. life can exist on super earth sized planets or large moons near giant gaseous planets.

Maybe. But while fairly intelligent life might evolve on super-earths, I have doubts a technical civilization could arise on them.

Well the honest truth is that we really don't know.

If an octopus is given a nice tasty crab inside a jar with a twist top lid they often work out how to get the jar open without needing to be shown how to do it... a lot of children are not that smart.

We can say this or that species would never get to an industrialised level, but does that make it true... we are terribly arrogant bastards remember...

A group of army ants come across a wasps nest hanging from the eves of a roof... they can't climb down onto the wasps nest to attack it because the wasps have covered the strand nest hangs from and upper surface of the nest with a poison especially designed to kill ants... so the ants form an ant bridge that reaches down from the eves and attaches to the bottom of the nest where the ants can then swarm in and take away larvae and other tasty treats for them to eat and of course kill all the wasps that remain...

That is intelligence being used by both sides...

GarryB wrote:Well the honest truth is that we really don't know.

If an octopus is given a nice tasty crab inside a jar with a twist top lid they often work out how to get the jar open without needing to be shown how to do it... a lot of children are not that smart.

We can say this or that species would never get to an industrialised level, but does that make it true... we are terribly arrogant bastards remember…

I knew octopi are intelligent so are dolphins. But what evidence is there for invention even after all the eons they've been around? An aquatic environment doesn't appear conducive to progress.

A group of army ants come across a wasps nest hanging from the eves of a roof... they can't climb down onto the wasps nest to attack it because the wasps have covered the strand nest hangs from and upper surface of the nest with a poison especially designed to kill ants... so the ants form an ant bridge that reaches down from the eves and attaches to the bottom of the nest where the ants can then swarm in and take away larvae and other tasty treats for them to eat and of course kill all the wasps that remain...

That is intelligence being used by both sides...

Both sides evolved behaviors and strategies for dealing with the other. The specific strategies resulted from natural selection and are in their genes. Real intelligence is different.

Visitors to the planet in "atlantean times"?