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    UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:45 pm

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/world/exoplanet-system-nearby-scn/index.html?utm_term=15931668116619795cb7c60ec&utm_source=Five+Things+for+Friday%2C+June+26%2C+2020&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=219756_1593166811663&bt_ee=gy2kkZJAe6YnVS2g9YbfQJmnVVPNdw5Nx4QAiFnVgouPSQmPa9Yo%2B365NpwC76dw&bt_ts=1593166811663

    I hope the 3rd planet exists. The red dwarfs r the oldest & most numerous in our galaxy-therefore, ET life should be more abundant around them.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:45 am

    I knew octopi are intelligent so are dolphins. But what evidence is there for invention even after all the eons they've been around? An aquatic environment doesn't appear conducive to progress.

    They are just as new as monkeys are... I bet if you had a time machine and travelled back a few million years and observed our ancestors you would think they are thick and pig shit and there is no way they could evolve or become smart.

    There are animals that use tools... there are animals of all types that pick up stones and bash things like snails or shellfish against the stones to get the food out of the shell.

    The fact that you equate technology and invention with intelligence is amusing...

    According to some scientists several dinosaurs worked in groups or packs to hunt... even today there are plenty of animals that group together for hunting or for protection from hunters...
    starman
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    Post  starman Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:00 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    I hope the 3rd planet exists. The red dwarfs r the oldest & most numerous in our galaxy-therefore, ET life should be more abundant around them.

    It's possible; I note the effects of a 2:3 tidal lock, at least, would be mitigated by the brief orbital periods of ecosphere planets. If red dwarf habitable zones are really habitable, advanced ETs could've arisen a billion years ago..
    starman
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    Post  starman Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:14 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    They are just as new as monkeys are…

    The earliest known primate was Purgatorius c 66 mya. In contrast, octopi have existed since the Carboniferous c 300 mya.

    I bet if you had a time machine and travelled back a few million years and observed our ancestors you would think they are thick and pig shit and there is no way they could evolve or become smart.

    Na, Homo habilis and Homo erectus were capable of making tools (as opposed to using natural "tools").

    According to some scientists several dinosaurs worked in groups or packs to hunt…

    Sure, probably Tarbosaurus, Albertosaurus, Nanuqsaurus, Deinonychus, Allosaurus etc.


    even today there are plenty of animals that group together for hunting or for protection from hunters...

    Not indicative of much intelligence.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:59 pm

    Not indicative of much intelligence.

    Yeah... they don't have to pay tax and don't murder their own and other species in the billions... they are dumb....
    starman
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    Post  starman Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:25 am

    GarryB wrote:Yeah... they don't have to pay tax and don't murder their own and other species in the billions... they are dumb....

    Smile Intelligence and morality aren't the same, and elimination of species by competitors or predators long predated Man. The advent of Tyrannosaurus seems to have eclipsed entire lineages, leading to the diminished diversity in Laramidia by latest Maastrichtian time. Likewise the great American interchange led to much extinction in South America. Some time ago, a study concluded crinoid diversity was adversely affected by sharks.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:35 am

    https://earthsky.org/space/europa-ocean-habitable-goldschmidt-conference

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/jun/28/beyond-pluto-the-hunt-for-our-solar-system-new-ninth-planet
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:45 am

    The stupid have some excuse for morally poor choices... the intelligent not at all.

    It took intelligent people to make nuclear weapons, though not all contributed knowingly... the planet would probably be much better off if humans were less smart.
    starman
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    Post  starman Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:37 am

    GarryB wrote:The stupid have some excuse for morally poor choices... the intelligent not at all.

    Morality doesn't appear very compatible with the real world, in which you gotta do what you must to survive and prosper. It wasn't very moral for our ancestors to outcompete and eliminate Homo sapiens neanderthalensis but it made higher cultural development possible.

    It took intelligent people to make nuclear weapons, though not all contributed knowingly... the planet would probably be much better off if humans were less smart.

    Smile OK, humanity makes mistakes. You make mistakes, you learn from them and move on. We haven't annihilated ourselves.

    Europa is interesting but does it have all of the biogenic elements necessary for life? There may be enough carbon but what about nitrogen?
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:11 am

    https://www.inverse.com/science/carbon-from-white-dwarfs

    So, wherever there r live stars, there r going to be many white dwarfs among them- carbon won't need to travel too far to land on their planets. Therefore, any planet within the habitable zone will eventually have organic molecules & life.
    starman
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    Post  starman Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:15 am

    It's long been known that heavier elements, including biogenic ones, result from nucleosynthesis and supernovas spew these into interstellar space where they form newer generations of stars/planets with the ingredients essential for life.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:33 am

    The drive to explore Mars flagged until the confirmation less than 10 years ago that water once flowed on its surface.
    "It's the only planet where we've been able to detect past signs of life, and the more we learn about it more hope there is," said Michel Viso, an astrobiologist at CNES, France's space agency.
    "It feels like something exciting is happening, and people want to be a part of it."
    Today's Mars is basically an immense, icy desert. About 3.5 billion years ago, it lost the dense atmospheric pressure that protected it from cosmic radiation.
    Scientists are still trying to determine whether the planet was ever inhabited by metabolic life forms.
    "Four billion years ago, the conditions on the planet's surface were very close to those which we had on Earth when life first appeared," including liquid water and a dense atmosphere, said Jorge Vago, the spokesperson for the European Space Agency's ExoMars initiative.

    https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-07-10/Countdown-to-Mars-China-U-S-UAE-to-launch-missions-this-month-S13KxNjHy0/index.html
    starman
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    Post  starman Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:09 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:[i]The drive to explore Mars flagged until the confirmation less than 10 years ago that water once flowed on its surface.

    Mariner 9 found ample evidence of flowing water almost half a century ago. Mars exploration wouldn't have "flagged" had the Mars Observer craft not been lost in 1993.
    It's always good to see space exploration missions but there should be less emphasis on dinky Mars and more on exoplanets which may hold more promise like Trappist e.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:01 pm

    https://www.mysterywire.com/ufo/lawmakers-ask-for-unclassified-uap-task-force-report-in-new-intelligence-bill/

    I wonder, what's is there so important to hide in the classified version, which obviously exists?
    starman
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    Post  starman Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:37 pm

    Lol, nothing will come of this. Those who think real disclosure is just around the corner are in for a disappointment; I should say yet another one. History is replete with so called government investigation. To old timers, blue book is the best known example. It's all just a farce. A newly published work explains what's really going on: https://www.amazon.com/Alien-Grand-Design-Tim-Donovan/dp/1952269865
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:30 pm

    If many other governments make more unbiased disclosures, as they had before, & the US gov. doesn't, who is going to trust them? It's only going to feed conspiracy theories, esp. since a new cold war just started with Russia & China.
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    Post  starman Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:55 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:If many other governments make more unbiased disclosures,

    Smile Unfortunately their "disclosures" don't amount to much, since the our government is probably the only one in possession of incontrovertible proof.

    as they had before, & the US gov. doesn't, who is going to trust them? It's only going to feed conspiracy theories, esp. since a new cold war just started with Russia & China.

    Few knowledgeable people ever trusted the US government. There have been "conspiracy theories" for decades. The government has undoubtedly concealed and confiscated evidence, and while a lot of information has seemed to leak out, it's really misinformation, as the aforementioned book explains.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:33 pm

    Unfortunately their "disclosures" don't amount to much, since the our government is probably the only one in possession of incontrovertible proof.
    at least a few others have as good, if not better proof. Besides, ancient myths, Sumerian texts, & the Bible r full of what now could be considered as "close encounters" of all kinds. If they could inspire religions (& artifacts) that now don't need any more proof, then it's a pretty strong anthropological evidence!
    Few knowledgeable people ever trusted the US government.
    most of the public isn't knowledgeable & therefore is subject to propaganda & manipulation.
    starman
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    Post  starman Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:02 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    at least a few others have as good, if not better proof.

    I very much doubt that. The "Russian Roswell" was a hoax.

    Besides, ancient myths, Sumerian texts, & the Bible r full of what now could be considered as "close encounters" of all kinds. If they could inspire religions (& artifacts) that now don't need any more proof, then it's a pretty strong anthropological evidence!

    Some writers read way too much into ancient texts, and scholars long ago concluded much of what they say is pure invention.

    most of the public isn't knowledgeable & therefore is subject to propaganda & manipulation.

    Sure but experts can cast a lot of doubt on the government.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:47 am

    I very much doubt that. The "Russian Roswell" was a hoax.
    Radar records & photos/films from USSR & L. America militaries r in the same league as the latest USN revelation.
    Some writers read way too much into ancient texts, and scholars long ago concluded much of what they say is pure invention.
    the so-called scholars been proven wrong many times & often change their theories at a drop of a hat.
    Sure but experts can cast a lot of doubt on the government.
    they c/would be ridiculed & ostracized as many before them.
    A dogmatic believer can always blame a defective glass in the telescope when shown craters on the Moon or wrong dating methods when presented with ancient artifacts/fossils- so to many, it doesn't matter much what scientists & experts say. The Shroud of Turin is a case in point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating_of_the_Shroud_of_Turin

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fringe_theories_about_the_Shroud_of_Turin
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:25 am

    Some writers read way too much into ancient texts, and scholars long ago concluded much of what they say is pure invention.

    More importantly written information from ancient times is the sort of stuff the rich and powerful had control of, while the masses would rely on word of mouth and spoken histories to keep their culture alive. The written words change with use... we know that to be true of most languages, but writing written in stone is literally written in stone and set.

    Even 50 years after information was written on a wall or a piece of stone it might be considered myth and legend... for all we know it might have been a way of recording stories for children or for entertainment for adults... people of this century are not the first to make up stories and use their imagination... in fact look at movies and these days many are just remakes because there is no imagination left in some places...

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    Post  starman Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:54 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    Radar records & photos/films from USSR & L. America militaries r in the same league as the latest USN revelation.

    So what; that can't compare with actual recovered hardware, without which there is no conclusive case.

    the so-called scholars been proven wrong many times & often change their theories at a drop of a hat.

    "So-called scholars" have consistently rejected most of the bible for a century, and for very good reasons. It's foolhardy to base beliefs on ancient texts.


    A dogmatic believer can always blame a defective glass in the telescope when shown craters on the Moon or wrong dating methods when presented with ancient artifacts/fossils- so to many, it doesn't matter much what scientists & experts say.

    Even "many" may constitute a fringe group, like creationists, who can babble all they want while real scholarship goes on, oblivious to their absurdities.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:12 pm

    So what; that can't compare with actual recovered hardware, without which there is no conclusive case.
    Alien implants were recovered & found to be not of this Earth:
    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54247d50e4b016149c77301f/t/55ea4f69e4b02a8ac1ba7215/1441419113163/THE+SMOKING+GUN.pdf
    https://www.fanwave.it/en/mysteries/653-roger-leir-the-surgeon-that-removed-alien-implants.html

    https://www.amazon.com/Aliens-Scalpel-Scientific-Extraterrestrial-Millennium/dp/1893183017

    https://science.howstuffworks.com/space/aliens-ufos/is-there-finally-proof-alien-implants-in-human-bodies.htm

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1994/04/17/alien-reckoning/2c40dbed-4e10-4026-9c3e-629fc734c23e/
    starman
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    Post  starman Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:28 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    Alien implants were recovered & found to be not of this Earth:

    The late Dr. Leir has made interesting claims but I've heard criticisms such as he hasn't made finds available to other researchers for corroboration. Even if implants are publicly proven to be advanced devices some have long said abductions are really a secret US government operation. To really prove the case for ET you need alien bodies and a spaceship or some kind of flying craft with means of propulsion unknown to or unmastered by humans. There are good grounds to believe the US government acquired such proof at least once or twice, decades ago. The case for foreign acquisition of real proof is at best much weaker.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:37 pm

    Another example: https://www.post-gazette.com/news/science/2015/12/06/50-years-later-the-Kecksburg-Westmoreland-County-UFO-is-identified-probably/stories/201512060146

    If it isn't alien, why still refusing to talk about & clear it up? Is it still classified on the same level as other UFO related events & if so, why?
    Abductees with health problems r the living evidence. So r the substances left by UFOs: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/pentagon-ufo-alloys-program-recover-material-unidentified-flying-objects-not-recognise-us-government-a8117801.html

    No matter what the scientists say, those who were there are convinced that what they saw was unlike anything on earth. https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29342407

    Domesticated corn wasn't likely created by humans alone either.
    https://blog.nationalgeographic.org/2009/03/23/corn-domesticated-from-mexican-wild-grass-8700-years-ago/


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