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    UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:13 am

    Well the honest truth is that we really don't know.

    If an octopus is given a nice tasty crab inside a jar with a twist top lid they often work out how to get the jar open without needing to be shown how to do it... a lot of children are not that smart.

    We can say this or that species would never get to an industrialised level, but does that make it true... we are terribly arrogant bastards remember...

    A group of army ants come across a wasps nest hanging from the eves of a roof... they can't climb down onto the wasps nest to attack it because the wasps have covered the strand nest hangs from and upper surface of the nest with a poison especially designed to kill ants... so the ants form an ant bridge that reaches down from the eves and attaches to the bottom of the nest where the ants can then swarm in and take away larvae and other tasty treats for them to eat and of course kill all the wasps that remain...

    That is intelligence being used by both sides...
    starman
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    Post  starman on Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:51 am

    GarryB wrote:Well the honest truth is that we really don't know.

    If an octopus is given a nice tasty crab inside a jar with a twist top lid they often work out how to get the jar open without needing to be shown how to do it... a lot of children are not that smart.

    We can say this or that species would never get to an industrialised level, but does that make it true... we are terribly arrogant bastards remember…

    I knew octopi are intelligent so are dolphins. But what evidence is there for invention even after all the eons they've been around? An aquatic environment doesn't appear conducive to progress.

    A group of army ants come across a wasps nest hanging from the eves of a roof... they can't climb down onto the wasps nest to attack it because the wasps have covered the strand nest hangs from and upper surface of the nest with a poison especially designed to kill ants... so the ants form an ant bridge that reaches down from the eves and attaches to the bottom of the nest where the ants can then swarm in and take away larvae and other tasty treats for them to eat and of course kill all the wasps that remain...

    That is intelligence being used by both sides...

    Both sides evolved behaviors and strategies for dealing with the other. The specific strategies resulted from natural selection and are in their genes. Real intelligence is different.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:22 pm

    The Sky People
    starman
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    Post  starman on Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:26 am

    Visitors to the planet in "atlantean times"? Laughing
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:45 pm

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/world/exoplanet-system-nearby-scn/index.html?utm_term=15931668116619795cb7c60ec&utm_source=Five+Things+for+Friday%2C+June+26%2C+2020&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=219756_1593166811663&bt_ee=gy2kkZJAe6YnVS2g9YbfQJmnVVPNdw5Nx4QAiFnVgouPSQmPa9Yo%2B365NpwC76dw&bt_ts=1593166811663

    I hope the 3rd planet exists. The red dwarfs r the oldest & most numerous in our galaxy-therefore, ET life should be more abundant around them.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:45 am

    I knew octopi are intelligent so are dolphins. But what evidence is there for invention even after all the eons they've been around? An aquatic environment doesn't appear conducive to progress.

    They are just as new as monkeys are... I bet if you had a time machine and travelled back a few million years and observed our ancestors you would think they are thick and pig shit and there is no way they could evolve or become smart.

    There are animals that use tools... there are animals of all types that pick up stones and bash things like snails or shellfish against the stones to get the food out of the shell.

    The fact that you equate technology and invention with intelligence is amusing...

    According to some scientists several dinosaurs worked in groups or packs to hunt... even today there are plenty of animals that group together for hunting or for protection from hunters...
    starman
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    Post  starman on Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:00 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    I hope the 3rd planet exists. The red dwarfs r the oldest & most numerous in our galaxy-therefore, ET life should be more abundant around them.

    It's possible; I note the effects of a 2:3 tidal lock, at least, would be mitigated by the brief orbital periods of ecosphere planets. If red dwarf habitable zones are really habitable, advanced ETs could've arisen a billion years ago..
    starman
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    Post  starman on Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:14 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    They are just as new as monkeys are…

    The earliest known primate was Purgatorius c 66 mya. In contrast, octopi have existed since the Carboniferous c 300 mya.

    I bet if you had a time machine and travelled back a few million years and observed our ancestors you would think they are thick and pig shit and there is no way they could evolve or become smart.

    Na, Homo habilis and Homo erectus were capable of making tools (as opposed to using natural "tools").

    According to some scientists several dinosaurs worked in groups or packs to hunt…

    Sure, probably Tarbosaurus, Albertosaurus, Nanuqsaurus, Deinonychus, Allosaurus etc.


    even today there are plenty of animals that group together for hunting or for protection from hunters...

    Not indicative of much intelligence.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:59 pm

    Not indicative of much intelligence.

    Yeah... they don't have to pay tax and don't murder their own and other species in the billions... they are dumb....
    starman
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    Post  starman on Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:25 am

    GarryB wrote:Yeah... they don't have to pay tax and don't murder their own and other species in the billions... they are dumb....

    Smile Intelligence and morality aren't the same, and elimination of species by competitors or predators long predated Man. The advent of Tyrannosaurus seems to have eclipsed entire lineages, leading to the diminished diversity in Laramidia by latest Maastrichtian time. Likewise the great American interchange led to much extinction in South America. Some time ago, a study concluded crinoid diversity was adversely affected by sharks.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:35 am

    https://earthsky.org/space/europa-ocean-habitable-goldschmidt-conference

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/jun/28/beyond-pluto-the-hunt-for-our-solar-system-new-ninth-planet
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:45 am

    The stupid have some excuse for morally poor choices... the intelligent not at all.

    It took intelligent people to make nuclear weapons, though not all contributed knowingly... the planet would probably be much better off if humans were less smart.
    starman
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    Post  starman on Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:37 am

    GarryB wrote:The stupid have some excuse for morally poor choices... the intelligent not at all.

    Morality doesn't appear very compatible with the real world, in which you gotta do what you must to survive and prosper. It wasn't very moral for our ancestors to outcompete and eliminate Homo sapiens neanderthalensis but it made higher cultural development possible.

    It took intelligent people to make nuclear weapons, though not all contributed knowingly... the planet would probably be much better off if humans were less smart.

    Smile OK, humanity makes mistakes. You make mistakes, you learn from them and move on. We haven't annihilated ourselves.

    Europa is interesting but does it have all of the biogenic elements necessary for life? There may be enough carbon but what about nitrogen?

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