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    BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    George1
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    Post  George1 Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:06 pm

    Russia Looks to Revive Nuclear Missile Trains to Counter U.S. Attack Capability


    George Shuklin / WikicommonsThe last surviving RT-23 missile perched above its railway based launcher at the Central Museum of Railway Transport in St. Petersburg

    Russia's Strategic Rocket Forces are considering bringing back iconic Soviet-era nuclear missile trains as Moscow pumps money into a complete overhaul its aging nuclear arsenal.

    According to an unidentified source in the Russian military-industrial complex quoted by the TASS news agency on Thursday, the Moscow Institute of Thermal Technology — makers of the Topol, Yars and Bulava missiles — is designing a next-generation missile launching train.

    "While the decision to start manufacturing [missile trains] is still pending, the probability is high that it will happen," the source was quoted as saying, explaining that technical studies and cost estimates are still being conducted.

    "In the best-case scenario, they will be deployed by the end of the decade, probably somewhere around 2019," he said.

    The Russian nuclear forces are the prime beneficiaries of Moscow's sweeping 20 trillion ruble ($500 billion) military rearmament drive, with authorities pledging to completely modernize the country's arsenal with new rockets better suited to respond to modern threats.

    The Soviet Union began deploying nuclear missile trains in 1987. The trains used RT-23 Molodets missiles, built by the giant Yuzhmash machine building plant located in modern day Ukraine. By the time the U.S.S.R. collapsed in 1991, 56 of the missiles were deployed on missile trains. Ukraine stopped building RT-23s, and by 2005 Russia had decommissioned all of them.

    In December last year, Lieutenant General Sergei Karakayev of the Strategic Rocket Forces said that the U.S. Prompt Global Strike program was forcing Russia to begin conducting studies on putting the concept back into practice.

    Prompt Global Strike refers to the development by the U.S. of hypersonic missiles that will be capable of fast, high precision strikes anywhere on the globe.

    In this context, missile trains make a lot of sense for Russian defense strategists. One of the key elements of any nuclear war plan is the ability of your nuclear forces to survive a first strike from an opponent and counterattack with devastating force.

    A missile train would increase the survivability of Russia's nuclear arsenal, complicating efforts to locate its missiles by moving them quickly and consistently around the country.
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    Post  GarryB Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:13 am

    From memory the main issues with ICBM trains was the size and weight of the ICBMs requiring special train carriages to be made... they were just too big and heavy.

    With modern technologies making them smaller and lighter putting them on train carriages is much more practical... the ideal is to create them so that they look and operate like other train carriages which would make them harder to spot.

    As you can imagine the idea of the cruise missile in the shipping container wouldn't really work if it had a special shipping container that was twice as wide and twice as long as a standard container. All the handling and storing equipment would not work and they would stand out from other containers.

    It is the same with ICBM trains.

    the interesting thing is that the train could have Pantsir and TOR and BUK and even S-350 or S-400 and S-500 on board to help protect it...
    George1
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    Post  George1 Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:36 am

    Work on Russia's railway-based Barguzin missile in progress — commander

    Railway missile systems armed with Molodets solid propellant rockets were withdrawn from service in 2005.

    VLASIKHA, Moscow Region, December 16. /TASS/. The schematic design of Russia’s future railway-based combat missile complex Barguzin, to be recreated under the president’s decision, has been finalized and work is now in progress on design documentation, the commander of Russia’s strategic missile force, Colonel-General Sergey Karakayev, said on Tuesday.

    “Creation of the newest railway-based missile is underway in accordance with the presidential instructions. It is being developed exclusively at enterprises of the national defence-industrial complex. It will embody the latest achievements in combat missile building,” Karakayev said.

    The work on the Barguzin complex is proceeding “in strict compliance with the approved schedule.”

    “At the moment the industry is designing the complex and manufacturing the hardware for testing. It should be noted that the schematic design phase is over and design documentation is being developed,” Karakayev said.

    Barguzin is being developed at the Moscow-based Institute of Thermal Engineering. Previously, it delivered the Bulava missile.

    Karakayev said Barguzin will build up from the experience of its Soviet predecessor. Such railway complexes armed with solid propellant rockets Molodets were withdrawn from service in 2005.

    The strategic missile force commander said Barguzin would considerably surpass its predecessor in terms of accuracy, flight range and other parameters, which will allow to keep it operational at least till 2040.

    Karakayev said the strategic missile force would in fact re-create a multi-component group on the basis of three missile complexes based in silos, on mobile truck chassis and on railway cars.
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:23 pm

    They're actually going to go with a whole new ICBM project for the railway-based complex?

    Ain't that just a little wasteful?

    I mean they have the Avangard & Sarmat under development & testing
    Bulava & Liner having just entered deployment and Yars having been deployed not long before that
    Bark was in the testing stages before it was cancelled, and so its technology is also around
    Even the Topol-M is very much a new ICBM; far newer than any American ICBMs in service today

    I realise I included SLBMs as well but they are very closely related to ICBMs and with some adaption can be modified for land-based use too I would think - even this would still be a better option than actually developing a new ICBM class specifically for trains. But of course the best option is just to use something like the Avangard - which by all accounts will be smaller than the Yars and certainly the Sarmat, and should be mountable on a train platform.

    Hopefully the "Barguzin' codeword is just a codeword for the adaption of an existing or soon to be existing missile to the rail-platform in the same way as the Iskander-K was really just an adaption of the Kalibr-M to a land-based platform
    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:42 pm

    flamming_python wrote:They're actually going to go with a whole new ICBM project for the railway-based complex?

    Ain't that just a little wasteful?

    I mean they have the Avangard & Sarmat under development & testing

    You are wrong. RS-24 or Yars will be used. Nothing new.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:00 pm

    A newer lighter accurate train mounted ICBM would be a very formidable system and would make truck based ICBMs relatively obsolete.

    The distance a train can move in 30 minutes is rather greater than a truck can move and if it can be made on a single carriage that can be made to look like a standard carriage then the best analogy would not be with Iskander, but with the cargo container based cruise missile carriers... one of millions used world wide all the time.
    Rmf
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    Post  Rmf Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:07 pm

    GarryB wrote:A newer lighter accurate train mounted ICBM would be a very formidable system and would make truck based ICBMs relatively obsolete.

    The distance a train can move in 30 minutes is rather greater than a truck can move and if it can be made on a single carriage that can be made to look like a standard carriage then the best analogy would not be with Iskander, but with the cargo container based cruise missile carriers... one of millions used world wide all the time.
    probably , modified bulavas on railwagons , the surplus capacity is there for the missile and aditional equipment.
    http://eng.transafe.ru/info/zd_kont/rail%20vagons_eng.pdf?PHPSESSID=d4809caa34bc498357d67e4acd290b58
    coolieno99
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    Post  coolieno99 Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:40 pm

    Russia’s future railway-based system Barguzin to carry 6 ballistic missiles

    MOSCOW, December 26. /TASS/.
    One train of Russia's future railway-based combat missile system Barguzin will carry up to six intercontinental ballistic missiles and will be equivalent to a regiment, a defense source told TASS on Friday.
    "One regiment of the recreated new-generation Barguzin system will be able to carry six Yars or Yars-M intercontinental ballistic missiles," the source said.
    He added that one Barguzin division will comprise five regiments.
    Barguzin, which is being developed at the Moscow-based Institute of Thermal Engineering, is expected to enter service in 2018-2019.
    A former Strategic Missile Force chief of staff, Viktor Yesin, has told TASS earlier that Barguzin is Russia’s response to the United States’ deployment of the anti-ballistic missile defence.
    Russia withdrew railway-based inter-continental ballistic missiles from operation in 2005. At the moment research and development work is in progress on Barguzin, which is expected to remain in active service at least till 2040.

    http://itar-tass.com/en/russia/769357
    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:57 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    .bloody hell, sounds like something out of the darkest days of the cold war. I wonder if that's where we're headed...

    Very low carbon emissions...   Laughing

    Not at the point of impact.... Twisted Evil
    max steel
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    Post  max steel Mon May 04, 2015 12:29 pm

    Russia Makes Nuke Trains For Rapid Transit of A-Bombs Cool

    Russia says that it is building the train equivalent of a nuclear submarine.The “nuke trains“, or BZhRK, which stands for ‘combat railway missile complex’ in Russian, will be a massive platform train capable of transporting nuclear weapons at rapid speeds across the massive country to their launch destination.This is not the first time a country has created such nuclear transport devices – nuclear trains were created by the former Soviet Union but decommissioned after it’s dissolution.



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    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor Mon May 04, 2015 6:56 pm

    Nuclear trains are back in the game thumbsup

    Russia has completed the design of a missile train

    Draft project combat railway missile system "Barguzin" ready, told "Interfax" Russian Deputy Defense Minister for Armaments Yuri Borisov.

    GunshipDemocracy
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    BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM - Page 2 Empty Backstreet´s back or better Bagruzins´ Trains back!

    Post  GunshipDemocracy Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:02 am

    Train number zero


    Russia has completed the design of a super weapon
    The draft design of the combat railway missile system (missile train) "Barguzin" ready, said Deputy defense Minister for armaments Yuri Borisov.
    Soviet missile train "well Done" at the time, was so moved by the Pentagon that the U.S. did everything possible to make our country personally destroyed them. However, the Americans themselves had a truly great disservice. Russian "Barguzin" will become elusive and very powerful defence systems for strategic purposes.

    According to sources, "RG", the creation of the missile train goes according to plan, no difficulties. It is planned that the "Barguzin" of up to 5 missile regiments by 2020 will go into service of the strategic missile forces.

    The creation of a rail-mobile missile system was a necessary measure. The US refused their construction because of the high cost and technical complexity of the project, taking the strategic nuclear forces nuclear submarines. Joint reply of the USSR could not. The West managed to cover the entire world ocean network of acoustic stations and monitored the movement of our missile-carrying submarines. Of course, the Soviet submariners went to various lengths, and sometimes our submarines with nuclear missiles suddenly appeared where they weren't expecting. But the problem of global stealth is not solved. Because the basis of our strategic missile forces remained silo launchers. Then came the moving ground systems - "Pioneers" and "Poplar". But due to their size and characteristic shape reticent to call them was still on probation. And decided to place strategic missiles on railway platforms. Americans are not particularly worried. They felt that missile systems, tied to a railway track, to track from space will be very easy. And miscalculated.

    Outwardly, especially the top rail is practically no different from cars-refrigerators. However, playing a strategic two formulations of the locomotive. So many trains pulled by two locomotives. And huge in length and branching of the railway network of the USSR was allowed to get lost trains so that no the most sophisticated satellite intelligence is not fixed. At the railroad rail is called "train zero".

    Rocket trains "well Done" with three Intercontinental ballistic missile RT-23 utth were adopted in 1987. Each carried 10 warheads. They had a unique accuracy of hitting the target, for which he received in the West the name of the Scalpel. By 1991 was deployed 3 missile division, on 4 train in each. They were stationed in the Kostroma region, Krasnoyarsk and Perm regions.

    In accordance with the start-2 Treaty Russia by 2007, all rail, except for the two that have become Museum pieces, disposed of. Although many experts have argued that start-2 this is not required. Of course, the destruction of which had no analogues in the world of the complexes did not cause enthusiasm among the military, or among experts. But confirmed wisdom: a blessing in disguise. We know today that all went well, what overseas initially had no idea. Rockets "well Done" was designed and produced in Ukraine, in Dnipropetrovsk. So if under U.S. pressure, Russia has not dismantled its missile train, they would have hung up on us a heavy burden, because the maintenance and renewal of the resource under current conditions would become impossible. The rocketeers were able to design and start to prepare for the production of complexes, which all indicators will surpass those that were created in Yuzhnoye. Especially railway infrastructure for missile trains - reinforced paths in patrol areas, pads, the base is left.

    Each missile train "Barguzin" will be armed with 6 Intercontinental ballistic missile RS-24 "YARS". It is a land of sea "Maces". When was the beginning of its creation, no one could suggest that developing a missile system for the Navy and strategic rocket forces. "Bulava" - for the Navy, and "YARS" can be based on a wheeled chassis and railway platforms. Should thank the former chief of arms of Armed forces, Colonel-General Anatoly Sitnov. He insisted that was created not just a new missile for submarines, namely the unified multi-purpose complex, capable of operating at sea and on land.

    When the Americans about it know, it was too late to close the project failed. But nevertheless, surely, designers are constantly interfered with by some external force, as work on the Bulava were very hard. Today, it is not a secret. However, the staff of the Moscow Institute of thermal technology under the leadership of then-chief designer and CEO Yury Solomonova managed the almost impossible. It seems no accident that in the spring of Yuri Semenovich was awarded the title of Hero of Labor. That will consist of a new Russian missile train? In some ways it is very similar to a nuclear submarine of strategic purpose. Only more comfortable. All the wagons are sealed and very durable - even the explosion of a nuclear warhead within a few hundred metres from the composition should not bring the complex down. Autonomy - month. During this time the crew may leave the composition is water and food enough. During the day, "Barguzin" will be able to place up to 1000 km And can stay on the "abandoned" thread in the deep forest or hide in a disused tunnel. By the way, the tactics of combat use of the new rail-mobile missile systems, is likely to be different from that followed by "well Done".

    In a combat situation the rockets are in a few minutes. The firing range of 10 thousand km, the accuracy is within 100 meters of the target. Re - maneuvering, able to overcome any of the existing missile defense systems.

    To locate the rocket train during his combat duty for technical reconnaissance means is almost impossible. For rail-mobile missile system developed by the most advanced masking tools, a powerful electronic warfare systems and advanced methods of protection from terrorists.


    http://www.rg.ru/2015/06/04/barguzin.html


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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:53 am

    **sigh** stupid auto-translate

    "Well done" = Molodets
    "Mace" = Bulava
    "Poplar" = Topol
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:27 pm

    ¨
    To locate the rocket train during his combat duty for technical reconnaissance means is almost impossible. For rail-mobile missile system developed by the most advanced masking tools, a powerful electronic warfare systems and advanced methods of protection from terrorists.
    ¨

    this sounds for m most interesting. Armored train against RPGs or AGTMs? UAV or UCAV helos to watch terrain around against ambushes?

    With trains Russia will not have triad anymore. This is going to be nuclear quad Smile


    flamming_python wrote:**sigh** stupid auto-translate

    "Well done" = Molodets
    "Mace" = Bulava
    "Poplar" = Topol

    mea culpa! this is as you use just translator w/o corrections. BTW well done made me spill coffee over keyboard laughing, now I need a new one pirat
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:44 pm

    flamming_python wrote:**sigh** stupid auto-translate

    "Well done" = Molodets
    "Mace" = Bulava
    "Poplar" = Topol

    I think 'Yandex' translator is vastly superior (in regards to translating Russian in to English) compared to 'Google' or 'Bing' translator, though Google is probably a better pure search engine, but that's neither here nor there.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:46 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:**sigh** stupid auto-translate

    "Well done" = Molodets
    "Mace" = Bulava
    "Poplar" = Topol

    I think 'Yandex' translator is vastly superior (in regards to translating Russian in to English) compared to 'Google' or 'Bing' translator, though Google is probably a better pure search engine, but that's neither here nor there.

    in most cases I agree but in this was yandex Smile
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    Post  collegeboy16 Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:31 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:**sigh** stupid auto-translate

    "Well done" = Molodets
    "Mace" = Bulava
    "Poplar" = Topol

    I think 'Yandex' translator is vastly superior (in regards to translating Russian in to English) compared to 'Google' or 'Bing' translator, though Google is probably a better pure search engine, but that's neither here nor there.

    in most cases I agree but in this was yandex Smile
    yandex has a sense of humor- targets hit by molodets end up well done.
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    Post  Mike E Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:19 pm

    It's really going to use Yars? I figured the new smaller missile Rubezh RS-26 to be honest... 

    This will scare our politicians for sure. Twisted Evil
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    Post  kvs Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:10 pm

    Good news indeed. Land "submarines" with heavy ICBMs. I would make sure to dress them up like passenger trains or generic freight
    trains without any indication of a special configuration. Satellites can easily identify train cars. Uncle Sam, the verminous slime,
    will have to cover the whole Russian rail system with nuclear attacks to take out these trains. Without proper camouflage the
    targeting becomes vastly simpler.
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    Post  max steel Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:50 pm

    Specific Trains are hard to detect  aming rest . Moreover russia is so huge how many sats will they use to keep track on every damn russian train .
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    Post  flamming_python Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:49 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:**sigh** stupid auto-translate

    "Well done" = Molodets
    "Mace" = Bulava
    "Poplar" = Topol

    I think 'Yandex' translator is vastly superior (in regards to translating Russian in to English) compared to 'Google' or 'Bing' translator, though Google is probably a better pure search engine, but that's neither here nor there.

    It will make no difference as the auto-translation is technically correct; those are the literal translations for those Russian words (albeit Molodets should really be 'good man' rather than 'well done'; it's just typically in the same context as the English expression 'well done' is).
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    Post  flamming_python Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:51 pm

    max steel wrote:Specific Trains are hard to detect  aming rest . Moreover russia is so huge how many sats will they use to keep track on every damn russian train .

    The trouble is that according to the infographic; the new ICBM trains will have 3 locomotives.
    This is a problem and it was a problem with the Molodets trains too; as most Russian trains of that size or even larger have only 2 locomotives.
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    Post  max steel Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:57 pm

    revamp few of russian civilian train with 3 locomotives then . whats the problem ? americans dont have rail based nuke systems
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:03 pm

    kvs wrote:Good news indeed.  Land "submarines" with heavy ICBMs.   I would make sure to dress them up like passenger trains or generic freight
    trains without any indication of a special configuration.   Satellites can easily identify train cars.   Uncle Sam, the verminous slime,
    will have to cover the whole Russian rail system with nuclear attacks to take out these trains.   Without proper camouflage the
    targeting becomes vastly simpler.

    I believe it was discussed earlier that the new train ICBM wouldn't need a special train car this time, and could just use a standard train car. BTW the future will likely include high-speed trains, such as 'fast-rail' and 'Maglev', you could come to your own conclusions what that'll mean for train ICBM's... Wink
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    Post  flamming_python Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:28 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    kvs wrote:Good news indeed.  Land "submarines" with heavy ICBMs.   I would make sure to dress them up like passenger trains or generic freight
    trains without any indication of a special configuration.   Satellites can easily identify train cars.   Uncle Sam, the verminous slime,
    will have to cover the whole Russian rail system with nuclear attacks to take out these trains.   Without proper camouflage the
    targeting becomes vastly simpler.

    I believe it was discussed earlier that the new train ICBM wouldn't need a special train car this time, and could just use a standard train car. BTW the future will likely include high-speed trains, such as 'fast-rail' and 'Maglev', you could come to your own conclusions what that'll mean for train ICBM's... Wink

    Nothing, at least not for this half of the century - ICBM trains are cargo trains, not passenger trains.

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