Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

Werewolf wrote:

Panzir-S1 exercises to shoot targets the size of a tea-cup from 2 km range.

Manual gun fire in optical mode.

Viktor wrote:18 missiles on Pancir-S1 for India    

Is India going to buy Pantsir-S1?

[quote="Indian Flanker"]

Viktor wrote:Is India going to buy Pantsir-S1?

Look here LINK

[quote="Viktor"]

Indian Flanker wrote:

Viktor wrote:Is India going to buy Pantsir-S1?

Look here LINK

Thanks, went through that link.

So, India still hasn't inked the deal for 100 odd Pantsir-S1s? Hope it does that soon

Missile range increased from 20 to 30 km

Army to get new missile for upgraded Pantsir-S system by end of 2014

So here is how things stand now

- all new serial Pancir-S1 (delivered and will be delivered until late 2015) will get modernized 30km range missiles

- from late 2015 upgraded Pancir-S1 will be delivered to Russian Aerospace defense forces

- from 2017 new Pancir-SM which is totaly new system will be delivered

- navalized Pancir-S1 in development

Viktor wrote:Missile range increased from 20 to 30 km

Army to get new missile for upgraded Pantsir-S system by end of 2014

So here is how things stand now

- all new serial Pancir-S1 (delivered and will be delivered until late 2015) will get modernized 30km range missiles

- from late 2015 upgraded Pancir-S1 will be delivered to Russian Aerospace defense forces

- from 2017 new Pancir-SM which is totaly new system will be delivered

- navalized Pancir-S1 in development

Good news, but they will have to increase range of radars to operate those 30 km range missiles. Tracking radar doesn't have enough range, so without upgrade there is no sense to use 30 km range missiles.

medo wrote:Good news, but they will have to increase range of radars to operate those 30 km range missiles. Tracking radar doesn't have enough range, so without upgrade there is no sense to use 30 km range missiles.

I think Russians took that in the consideration   


According to vpk-news missile range is 35 km

"Armour-C1" finished firing supersonic missiles

Viktor wrote:Missile range increased from 20 to 30 km

Army to get new missile for upgraded Pantsir-S system by end of 2014

So here is how things stand now

- all new serial Pancir-S1 (delivered and will be delivered until late 2015) will get modernized 30km range missiles

- from late 2015 upgraded Pancir-S1 will be delivered to Russian Aerospace defense forces

- from 2017 new Pancir-SM which is totaly new system will be delivered

- navalized Pancir-S1 in development

The 30 km missiles will be a nice stop-gap until the 41 km missiles are ready.


Edit: 35 km missiles are even better!

If they will use those missiles with current radars, than those radars have far longer range than export ones. For those missiles tracking radar need 40 km range and search radar more than 40 km range. It also need more powerful radio missile guiding complex to guide missile to its max range. With standard configuration it could guide missile only to 20 km range.

Some good informations on the live tests of the improved (speed and engagement range) SAM for Pantsyr.


http://vpk-news.ru/articles/20437


On a side note the anti-helicopters/surveillance drone mine ,to be adopted within a very short time by the Army, has a remote deployment capability including air delivery.

Mindstorm wrote:

Some good informations on the live tests of the improved (speed and engagement range) SAM for Pantsyr.


http://vpk-news.ru/articles/20437


On a side note the anti-helicopters/surveillance drone mine ,to be adopted  within a very short time by the Army, has a remote deployment capability including air delivery.

Interesting article. Pantsir shot down UAV type target on the move protecting S-300. I wonder if Tor-M2U have capability to fire on the move or have to stop to launch missiles.

What is more important, is the fact, as I assume, that Pantsir using new longer range missiles will have modified radars as basic ones doesn't have enough range. Basic missiles still have enormous 20 km range for SHORAD. This modified Pantsir-S1 with 30 km range missiles will still be SHORAD version ant its range is similar to BUK-M1. New medium range Pantsir-SM will have 40 km range missiles (same as 9M96 for export S-350), difference will be in guidance as Pantsir missiles will not have ARH homing heads.

Any news, when ground forces will accept their version of Pantsir to replace their aging Tunguskas.

Just as important would be optical performance... just detecting targets at 40km and tracking them is not enough... you don't want to be shooting down your own UAVs...

Regarding those remote anti helo mines being deployable via "remote deployment" is interesting... I wonder if a Smerch battery could move to within 90km of an enemy airfield and then fire a few anti helo mine rockets to seed the surrounding terrain with them... aiming them for the end of a long runway should allow these mines to engage a range of fixed wing aircraft too...

Even flying one or two in via a UAV would be interesting to interfere with enemy air operations...

GarryB wrote:  Regarding those remote anti helo mines being deployable via "remote deployment" is interesting...

The first employment of this class of very cheap weapons will be, obviously, the effective prevention of any kind of flanking NOE approach against spearhead ground forces formations - outside the coverage of the Army IAD-  by part of advanced enemy helicopters (in particulars those employing mast-mounted radar for detect its potential targets).

The altitude at which such helicopters would be forced to proceed (likely over 300 m) to prevent to be decimated by those kind of mines purposely placed by ground forces units long environmental elements useful to achieve terrain masking, would render them ,on the other side , very vulnerable to early detection and engagement with any kind of LOS weapons ( from 30 mm and over gun fire to advanced beam-riding missiles ,such as Kornet-AM or even gun-launched missiles almost impossible to jam or divert).


That primary CONOP of this new kind of totally passive anti-helicopter mine wouldn't require naturally the remote deployment feature previously cited.

The remote deployment capability (pointing at the capability of each single mine elements to open and orientate itself ,over any kind of terrain of delivery, so to place its sensors and defeating mechanism toward the sky) and the nature completely passive of the target detection and identification would instead open a completely new level of operations against helicopters and tactical UAVs in theirs transient phase to the mission's area of operation.

A Mi-8 ,an UAV or even a purposely designed MRLS rocket would render typical helicopter's journey like those










a deadly risk ; one second before you fly quietly toward a group of "insurgents" receiving from radio update of the situation and the second after you are spiraling to death with a big hole in the hull and some helix torn apart by part of a big shot coming out literally from nowere and without a single enemy unit or hostile emission detected..........horrible.

The 10th picture in my post at https://www.russiadefence.net/t1868p1035-ground-forces-photosnews shows one type of remotely deployable antihelicopter mine.

Viktor wrote:18 missiles on Pancir-S1 for India    

It's quite clear from the following video that there are no guns in the above variant of Pantsir'-S1.

It is unlikely that vityaz's 9m96 missile 40km range can be compared to future pantsir's 40 km range. While the latter may reach 40 km, it is likely it'd do so barely, with enough speed left in the missile to intercept only a slow, cooperative target, such as an uav. Due to different role of vityaz sam, it's ranges are perhaps marketed as ranges against maneuvering and non-cooperative manned combat planes.

eridan wrote:It is unlikely that vityaz's 9m96 missile 40km range can be compared to future pantsir's 40 km range. While the latter may reach 40 km, it is likely it'd do so barely, with enough speed left in the missile to intercept only a slow, cooperative target, such as an uav. Due to different role of vityaz sam, it's ranges are perhaps marketed as ranges against maneuvering and non-cooperative manned combat planes.

That's very true. Range is not a single number; it is a function of many variables.

To complicate the matter further, the Russians often give a figure that refers to the "maximum" distance that an interception takes place.

I have to add that a "western" range is the maximum target distance when a launch takes place, with the interception distance being much nearer.

Russians actually use other even more challenging parameters that are normally confused by many as being the "range". They, of course, mix and match these parameters whenever they feel like it.

There is a difference between Vityaz and Pantsir missile although both have 40 km range. 9M96 missile have ARH homing head while Pantsir missile is radio guided and with this cheaper. It could also be better against stealth targets as ARH head could have problems to loch on stealth plane, while Pantsir missile could be guided optically to the target with powerful radio guiding channel, which could not be jammed.

medo wrote:There is a difference between Vityaz and Pantsir missile although both have 40 km range. 9M96 missile have ARH homing head while Pantsir missile is radio guided and with this cheaper. It could also be better against stealth targets as ARH head could have problems to loch on stealth plane, while Pantsir missile could be guided optically to the target with powerful radio guiding channel, which could not be jammed.

In the future we could see both the Vityaz 9M96 and the Pantsir missiles have QWIP seekers once they become cheaper and are mass produced. Mass produced QWIP seekers and mass produced AESA radars may very well come around the same time.

Radio and laser guidance of missiles is still a good choice for air defense in this times of heavy ECM and stealth targets, but their limitation is range and Pantsir is reaching its limits, so for longer range it will need ARH, SARH or any other type of missile guidance.

Nice   

Russia began testing hypersonic missiles for anti-aircraft complex

New "Carapace" can hit ballistic targets

New "Carapace" can hit ballistic targets

Viktor wrote:Nice   

Russia began testing hypersonic missiles for anti-aircraft complex

New "Carapace" can hit ballistic targets

New "Carapace" can hit ballistic targets

WOW! The ability to engage ballistic missiles now?! In the case of a theater range ballistic missile attack, if the long range SAMS fail future Pantsir's could act as the last line of defense. The future Pantsir's will have a range of 41 km and will have 24 missiles to fire and effectively engage ballistic targets!

Morocco is also acquiring Pantsir-S1 in a big deal that maybe will be announced during the September meeting between putin and Mohamed VI.