Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+63
gbu48098
x_54_u43
Big_Gazza
wilhelm
TMA1
zepia
lyle6
Backman
mnztr
lancelot
The-thing-next-door
Sujoy
KoTeMoRe
Singular_Transform
Tsavo Lion
thegopnik
SeigSoloyvov
dino00
GunshipDemocracy
ATLASCUB
miketheterrible
Admin
Rodion_Romanovic
Hole
marcellogo
GarryB
LMFS
Svyatoslavich
OminousSpudd
Rmf
hoom
Azi
PapaDragon
kvs
eridan
Isos
Cyberspec
rtech
Flanky
medo
sepheronx
GJ Flanker
EKS
AlfaT8
Book.
Mike E
Flyingdutchman
Stealthflanker
mack8
Werewolf
magnumcromagnon
collegeboy16
sheytanelkebir
CaptainPakistan
Firebird
KomissarBojanchev
Viktor
gloriousfatherland
Austin
SOC
TR1
George1
Ogannisyan8887
67 posters

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Viktor
    Viktor


    Posts : 5796
    Points : 6429
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 44
    Location : Croatia

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  Viktor Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:38 pm

    TR1 wrote:Correction, MiG would love to have something in the pipeline as far as a new jet is concerned.

    Where there is a will, there is a way  Very Happy 
    mack8
    mack8


    Posts : 1039
    Points : 1093
    Join date : 2013-08-02

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  mack8 Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:10 pm

    According to Paralay, originally this was supposed to be Mig's submitted design for the PAK-FA program, but I hope it's adopted (and tweeked) for the light (or low) fighter mix:

    I'm not sure if it was Paralay or Flateric who said it, but apparently the "Mikoyan PAK-FA" in those images is purely a student project, it had nothing to do with the OKB. It is absolutely hideous imo anyway.

    Reading through lines, it appears Mikoyan's real PAK-FA contender was a derivative of MFI, also canard but with side intakes, and presumably stealthified, features of which MIGHT have found their way in the Chengdu J-20, given the rumours of possible Mikoyan advice/involvement at one point or another in this project.
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon


    Posts : 8138
    Points : 8273
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:26 am

    mack8 wrote:
    According to Paralay, originally this was supposed to be Mig's submitted design for the PAK-FA program, but I hope it's adopted (and tweeked) for the light (or low) fighter mix:

    I'm not sure if it was Paralay or Flateric who said it, but apparently the "Mikoyan PAK-FA" in those images is purely a student project, it had nothing to do with the OKB. It is absolutely hideous imo anyway.

    Reading through lines, it appears Mikoyan's real PAK-FA contender was a derivative of MFI, also canard but with side intakes, and presumably stealthified, features of which MIGHT have found their way in the Chengdu J-20, given the rumours of possible Mikoyan advice/involvement at one point or another in this project.

    Actually MFI and PAK-FA are two completely different programs.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40675
    Points : 41177
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  GarryB Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:45 am

    Actually MFI and PAK-FA are two completely different programs.

    They were, but he didn't say they weren't. He said that MiG submitted to the PAK FA competition an aircraft design related to the design they submitted for the MFI competition.
    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18539
    Points : 19044
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  George1 Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:19 am

    Russia working on lightweight successor to MiG-35

    The Russian aircraft-manufacturing corporation MiG is considering the possibility of building a fifth-generation fighter. The new aircraft may be based on the MiG-35, and will be further enhanced by advanced avionics and weapons. According to MiG managing director Sergei Korotkov, the corporation's experts are already working on a concept for the new fighter. "I know that this is one of the ideas, one of the directions that the design bureau is working on. I very much hope that soon we shall develop this area of work more seriously," he said. Russian Air Force to induct a hundred MiG-35 fighters after 2016 Russian Air Force to induct a hundred MiG-35 fighters after 2016 Korotkov did not specify how much progress the corporation has made in its research and development, but said he considered the creation of a new combat aircraft "very likely,” saying that "the most important thing is to have an order for it." Korotkov rejected the suggestion that this project may provoke a conflict between MiG and Sukhoi, which is working on its own version of a fifth-generation plane, the PAK FA (Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation). "These are two completely different aircraft, which will be performing different tasks," he said. The maximum take-off weight of the MiG-35 is 5 tons less than that of the PAK FA, so, Korotkov believes, it will be more effective in performing most of the proposed tasks. "We believe that the MiG-35 is a platform that may in future become the basis for a fifth-generation fighter," he said. The MiG corporation is now waiting for a Russian Defense Ministry contract for the supply of MiG-35s. All the relevant documents have been submitted to the ministry, Korotkov said, adding that he hoped the contract – he did not specify for how many aircraft - will be signed "before the end of this year.” The MiG-35 may also be sold abroad: There have been media reports suggesting that Egypt is thinking of buying 24 MiG-35s fitted with Klimov RD-33MK engines. However, Korotkov refused to comment on these rumors. In April, the MiG corporation won a contract from the Russian Defense Ministry for the supply of 16 additional MiG-29SMT fighters for the needs of the Russian Air Force.

    Source: Russia Beyond the Headlines - http://rbth.co.uk/news/2014/06/10/russia_working_on_lightweight_successor_to_mig-35_37341.html)
    avatar
    Austin


    Posts : 7617
    Points : 8014
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  Austin Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:43 pm

    flateric posted on secretproject , from the cover of recent UAC report possibly LMFS

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Lmfs_m10
    Stealthflanker
    Stealthflanker


    Posts : 1459
    Points : 1535
    Join date : 2009-08-04
    Age : 36
    Location : Indonesia

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  Stealthflanker Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:16 am

    Austin wrote:flateric posted on secretproject , from the cover of recent UAC report possibly LMFS

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Lmfs_m10

    looks interesting.

    though it seems somewhat it's an S-32 (concept of Su-47 berkut) But with diamond wings.
    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18539
    Points : 19044
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  George1 Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:53 am

    Stealthflanker wrote:
    Austin wrote:flateric posted on secretproject , from the cover of recent UAC report possibly LMFS

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Lmfs_m10

    looks interesting.

    though it seems somewhat it's an S-32 (concept of Su-47 berkut) But with diamond wings.

    it seems is a "small" PAK-FA like MiG-29 looks like a "small" Su-27
    Flyingdutchman
    Flyingdutchman


    Posts : 535
    Points : 551
    Join date : 2013-07-30
    Location : The Netherlands

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Russia working on lightweight successor to MIG-35.

    Post  Flyingdutchman Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:00 pm

    http://rbth.com/news/2014/06/10/russia_working_on_lightweight_successor_to_mig-35_37341.html
    Mike E
    Mike E


    Posts : 2619
    Points : 2651
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  Mike E Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:06 am

    Flyingdutchman wrote:http://rbth.com/news/2014/06/10/russia_working_on_lightweight_successor_to_mig-35_37341.html

    I'm not complaining but hasn't this been known for a while now? Unless this is different from the LMFS project.....
    Mike E
    Mike E


    Posts : 2619
    Points : 2651
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  Mike E Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:48 am

    Thanks for clearing that up!
    Flyingdutchman
    Flyingdutchman


    Posts : 535
    Points : 551
    Join date : 2013-07-30
    Location : The Netherlands

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  Flyingdutchman Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:30 am

    Sorry!
    Viktor
    Viktor


    Posts : 5796
    Points : 6429
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 44
    Location : Croatia

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  Viktor Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:01 pm

    Nice thumbsup


    general director Sergei Korotkov
    Russian Aircraft Corporation (RSK) "MiG" is working on lightweight fighter of the fifth generation, but does not have the relevant order.

    RAC "MiG" is working on a lightweight fighter of the fifth generation
    Book.
    Book.


    Posts : 692
    Points : 745
    Join date : 2015-05-08
    Location : Oregon, USA

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  Book. Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:49 am

    Viktor wrote:Nice  thumbsup


    general director Sergei Korotkov
    Russian Aircraft Corporation (RSK) "MiG" is working on lightweight fighter of the fifth generation, but does not have the relevant order.

    RAC "MiG" is working on a lightweight fighter of the fifth generation

    Mig 50. I like idea

    RD33 new 9,500 kgf. it ok
    AlfaT8
    AlfaT8


    Posts : 2499
    Points : 2490
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  AlfaT8 Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:36 am

    Viktor wrote:Nice  thumbsup


    general director Sergei Korotkov
    Russian Aircraft Corporation (RSK) "MiG" is working on lightweight fighter of the fifth generation, but does not have the relevant order.

    RAC "MiG" is working on a lightweight fighter of the fifth generation
    I haven't even heard of the relevant orders for MIG-35 and now this, is MIG getting desperate?

    Anyway, i predict this will go the way of the MIG-Skate. Neutral
    avatar
    Austin


    Posts : 7617
    Points : 8014
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  Austin Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:12 am

    I doubt LMFS will see the light of the day when there are so many new Airforce program with high priority name a few PAK-DA , Mig-41 , UCAV
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40675
    Points : 41177
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  GarryB Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:19 am

    Personally I think a hybrid small cheap fighter would be a great idea.

    A small light low cost aircraft that can either carry a modest payload internally in a stealthy mode or carry large amounts of ordinance externally in a non stealthy bomb truck type role.

    Don't try to give it super long range sensors or super long range fire power... just make it small, light stealthy enough, and cheap to build and operate and maintain.

    And make about 400.


    The key will be low cost to buy and to use... for general patrol duties you don't need a PAK FA and having a small stealthy plane to operate with Su-35s and MiG-35s and MiG-41s will be useful...
    avatar
    EKS


    Posts : 33
    Points : 32
    Join date : 2014-09-03
    Location : The Netherlands

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  EKS Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:43 pm

    GarryB wrote:Personally I think a hybrid small cheap fighter would be a great idea.

    A small light low cost aircraft that can either carry a modest payload internally in a stealthy mode or carry large amounts of ordinance externally in a non stealthy bomb truck type role.

    Don't try to give it super long range sensors or super long range fire power... just make it small, light stealthy enough, and cheap to build and operate and maintain.

    And make about 400.


    The key will be low cost to buy and to use... for general patrol duties you don't need a PAK FA and having a small stealthy plane to operate with Su-35s and MiG-35s and MiG-41s will be useful...

    I agree. It´s not all about maximum quality in the sense of maximum preformance. The Pak fa will meet those demands. It´s also a numbers game. Just look at the positioning of the russian air bases, the ojects they need to defend, the role of the aircraft and the strategy. They need a new low cost workhorse, in the mig-29 role, suited up to meet tomorrows standards of threats. With todays budget it´s impossible to build a 500+ feet pak fa´s. But a 250+fleet pak fa´s and a 250+ 5-gen light fighter in the middle term (10/15 years) is feesible i guess.
    GunshipDemocracy
    GunshipDemocracy


    Posts : 6174
    Points : 6194
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:15 pm

    Russia’s MiG to Develop Fifth-Generation Jet Fighter

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20150620/1023632156.html

    The MiG-35 4++ generation advanced multirole fighter could be used as a platform for building the new fifth-generation aircraft.

    MiG aircraft-making company will develop a fifth-generation light jet fighter, company CEO Sergei Korotkov said during the 2015 Le Bourget Airshow.

    "Such a plane has not been ordered yet. But we continue to work on it. We know that there is a broad worldwide market for this type of aircraft," Korotkov said.

    He also pointed out that currently many countries across the globe use the MiG-29 aircraft, and they need a plane to replace it.

    The MiG-35 4++ generation advanced multirole fighter could be used as a platform for building the fifth-generation aircraft. Mass production of the MiG-35 has repeatedly been delayed, including due to the absence of buyers.

    However, in April Russian Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said the Russian arms procurement program presumes delivering 30 MiG-35 aircraft to the Air Force by 2020.

    Another fifth-generation jet fighter for the Russian Air Force – T-50 (PAK FA) – is already in development. It is planned to be an attack aircraft. Currently, three prototypes are undergoing flight tests. Three more planes will be delivered for testing by the end of the year. The first T-50 aircraft are planned to be delivered to the Air Force from between the end of 2016 and the beginning of 2017.


    GJ Flanker
    GJ Flanker


    Posts : 38
    Points : 38
    Join date : 2012-07-28

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  GJ Flanker Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:44 pm

    Russia needs new combat aircraft, the more the better. The new situation dictates the dynamics of development of brand new Russian gear. A decision to modernize all T-90A to T-90M standard is a sign ain that direction. Mikoyan must come with something brand new. Sukhoi has already many delivery projects. I don't think a new MiG would be inferior comparing with T-50 and if we also get a MiG-41 than the picture will be complete.

    It is possible that this new MiG will top anything else out there in the world, even T-50 and F-22A. By logic, it will be a much younger project than all others. New solutions would be built in from the very start, like GaN AESA, X-core 16 nm processors and other things.

    I think the main aim is to bring Mikoyan to Sukhoi revenue level.
    sepheronx
    sepheronx


    Posts : 8876
    Points : 9136
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 35
    Location : Canada

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  sepheronx Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:37 pm

    Let us face it, as cost of goods are going up and Russia has been forced to tighten its belt regarding funding on nearly anything, a 5th gen lightweight fighter is going to become quite important.  Most wars are either a fight of attrition or would end in hours if gone nuclear.  So having a jet that is cheap to field while being able to hold its own quite well, is important.

    But why should it be not only expensive but takes long to come out?  Already KRET has the technologies for a fifth gen like fighter.  They could effectively use what they learned from MiG-35 so far, improve its subsystems, and come up with a newer airframe.  To reduce costs, they could use shaping a lot more effectively than relying on RAM material for stealth as RAM is quite expensive, while shaping wouldn't be (they could use computers to help come up with the design.  Of course, the set basis for it could be MiG-29 shape.

    But a jet that would cost roughly $30 - $50M per unit would be ideal, as it would be significantly cheaper than PAK FA, while being reasonable in terms of price, could still be capable.  Theoretically, Su-34's are listed as cheaper than Su-35's and are very capable aircrafts, hence the large purchase for them (well, and their needs).

    GJ Flanker wrote:Russia needs new combat aircraft, the more the better. The new situation dictates the dynamics of development of brand new Russian gear. A decision to modernize all T-90A to T-90M standard is a sign ain that direction. Mikoyan must come with something brand new. Sukhoi has already many delivery projects. I don't think a new MiG would be inferior comparing with T-50 and if we also get a MiG-41 than the picture will be complete.

    It is possible that this new MiG will top anything else out there in the world, even T-50 and F-22A. By logic, it will be a much younger project than all others. New solutions would be built in from the very start, like GaN AESA, X-core 16 nm processors and other things.  

    I think the main aim is to bring Mikoyan to Sukhoi revenue level.

    Problem with low nanometer processors are that their shieldings for against radiation. Most processors used for military purposes are usually around 180 - 90nm processing with specialized shieldings. Very expensive. Like F-22's and Su-30MKI's use the Intel i960x processor which is quite old in terms of regular computer use, but are quite ideal for radar technology. The ones ideal for Russia will be the Elbrus 2C+ or 2SM which are localized production and 90nm with 6 physical cores of two of them being the Elbrus E2K core and 4 being of Elvees DSP cores.

    Also, I know very little currently about the modules for radar technology coming out from Russia but my understanding is that NPP Istok is the one who produces the current T/R Modules for both KRET and Tikhomirov NPP. I read that back in 2009 (?) they were working on GaN modules but heard nothing more. They are the makers of the current T/R modules of GaAS in Russia and very odd reports here and there of its performances. Some claim they operate in the 10W field, and others say 5W field with MiG-35's having real trouble powering them, something to 3 - 3.5W and thus gives apparent poor performance. Rumor for same modules used for the N036 radar for PAK FA and there is total power being sent to the radar is around 10 - 15KW and gives roughly rumored or theoretical 400km detection range of the Irbis E, which requires similar amount of power.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40675
    Points : 41177
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  GarryB Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:50 pm

    The focus will be to keep costs low... don't try to make it a super plane... fit mature and capable systems... don't try to make it everything to everyone like the F-35s.
    GunshipDemocracy
    GunshipDemocracy


    Posts : 6174
    Points : 6194
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sun Jun 21, 2015 5:31 pm

    GarryB wrote:The focus will be to keep costs low... don't try to make it a super plane... fit mature and capable systems... don't try to make it everything to everyone like the F-35s.

    Well what wonders me is - why MiG´s representative explicitly mentioned MiG-35. If this is 35 frame then why not MiG-35M? Or this is going to frame remake?


    BTW mentioning F-35 actually some solutions were borrowed fomr Yak-141 which IMHO should be resurrected for navy.

    near the end of video about F-35. I am not sure how much this is true and how much constructors´ perception.

    sepheronx
    sepheronx


    Posts : 8876
    Points : 9136
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 35
    Location : Canada

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  sepheronx Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:03 pm

    When they say they will use the MiG-35 as the basis, I imagine it will be mostly of its subsystems and possibly engines.  Modified RD-33 engines could very well do the job just fine.

    Chances are, it will be something much like MiG-35 but just airframe changes and powersupply.  Let us not forget, that the MiG-29's suffer from lower detection/engagement ranges (noticed this on both its ESA and AESA radars) that seems to be derived from power supply issues.  If they can fix this, they could very well have a powerful aircraft in a small package.  Using current technologies will just speed up development as well as reducing costs.

    At this point, with Mikoyans poor number of orders, they will need to come up with something soon or they will fall behind greatly and even possibly lose itself entirely (although, they could use the extra space at sokol plant to produce more sukhoi parts but that is besides the point). So they will need to come up with something that will be either both export oriented or domestic demand, and an aircraft that is both competitive and cheap. Russia will need this in order to help itself develop a capable airforce as now the budgets have been changing.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40675
    Points : 41177
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  GarryB Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:05 am

    I suspect what they mean by being based on the MiG-35 is that it will use the same basic layout... ie twin fins and two engines etc etc.

    Likely slightly wider engine separation, and an internal weapon bay fitted between the engines... perhaps even something radical like wingtip pods with combination targetting pods and jamming pods fitted, perhaps with a wing tip WVR missile position mounted internally...

    Sponsored content


    5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS - Page 4 Empty Re: 5th gen light mulltirole fighter/Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Dec 05, 2024 8:07 pm