The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

franco wrote:Interesting story if true out of the Donbas


Revenge is a cold dish: the Ukrainian Armed Forces destroyed the checkpoint with the Right Sector *


Revenge is a cold dish! When everyone decided that there was no longer any enmity, soldiers from the 93rd brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine struck at the Right Sector, clearly explaining that they had not forgotten anything. And the DPR fighters at this time watched and were greatly surprised by the explosions and a column of black smoke. Of course, the Ukrainian media will either keep silent or blame everything on the DPR, but we know the truth! And we look forward to a sequel to this exciting thriller.


https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://pikinform.ru/warsnews/vojna-na-donbasse/mest-bljudo-holodnoe-vsu-unichtozhili-blokpost-s-pravym-sektorom.html%3Futm_source%3Dwarfiles.ru

Good on them. Not the last time the Right sector have caused such problems it would seem.

https://www.rferl.org/a/right-sector-standoff-ukraine-shootout/27124178.html

Grandma taken in by police in Odessa for wearing a St. George's ribbon
https://twitter.com/SergUA63/status/1391361105482731523

Odessa again, guy had a St. George's ribbon and a portrait of Zhukov this time
https://twitter.com/SergUA63/status/1391344966052597763

'Victory day' in Kiev
https://twitter.com/SergUA63/status/1391334757833785346

Odessa, tussle between participants of the 'Immortal Regiment' and the police
https://twitter.com/SergUA63/status/1391329863475343360

A Red Army veteran in Kiev got greeted with a Sieg Heil salute
https://twitter.com/SergUA63/status/1391315308451934208

A former Soviet army officer wanting to commemorate the deeds of his ancestors in WW2 got detained by the police in Melitopol
https://twitter.com/SergUA63/status/1391307279534858240

A Red Army veteran got asked by a journalist in Kiev - 'We beat the German fascists, will we beat the Russian fascists now?'
https://twitter.com/SergUA63/status/1391299187753500673

In Kiev, police are checking people who wish to enter the park of Eternal Glory for communist symbols
https://twitter.com/SergUA63/status/1391294770417389573

People are being prohibited from laying wreaths at the monument to the unknown sailor in Odessa, explained by the work of a sapper squad
https://twitter.com/SergUA63/status/1391285742593323009

Another police-people fight in Odessa, over red banners and Zhukov portraits
https://twitter.com/SergUA63/status/1391313289473413122

The participants of the 'anti-terrorist operation' of Donbass, are organizing a car parade in Kharkov today
https://twitter.com/SergUA63/status/1391267744818024448

Eventful day for sure.

But I will stand by my opinion as always. They bought into all that jazz, now they're stewing in it. And they can stew in it until the last fragment of memory of their ancestors deeds is ignominiously buried and forgotten, at which point there won't be a problem anymore.

Beggar's belief why any Eastern European would idolize Nazi ideology when you consider what they did to your peoples. I think of the the Russian football hooligans in that context too, room temperature IQ morons.

Finty wrote:Beggar's belief why any Eastern European would idolize Nazi ideology when you consider what they did to your peoples. I think of the the Russian football hooligans in that context too, room temperature IQ morons.

Well Hitler was fighting for a united Europe, was he not?

And Eastern Europeans today are all humming to the tune of European civilization, etc etc etc, basically where all the money comes from and where their oligarchs have their bank accounts. But still most are smart enough to not go full retard and remember what their ancestors went through under Nazi occupation.

If we want to go into why you had collaborators back then, then it was from all sorts of things - genuine belief that the Germans would grant them their own independent national states (in the Ukraine that fell through pretty quickly, the chief nationalist Bandera was arrested by the Germans themselves), to desire for vengeance against Stalin's repressions, to racial theories being popular at the time and Hitler's ideals having a sort of appeal, to anti-Semitism and the belief in a Jewish financial order which should be opposed including their own neighbours, and so on.

As for today, it's basically the descendants of some of those people, as well as the oligarchs and elites of some of these states wanting to distance themselves from Russia to the point of cutting human ties with Russia and so slowly move to equate the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, to eventually just saying that actually the Soviet Union was even worse, and actually holding and sponsoring Waffen SS parades in the capital and having official holidays, while harrassing pro Red Army parades.
In the Ukraine, which lost more civilian lives to the Nazis proportionately than Russia did - such a policy is absurd. But they've actually managed quite a bit of progress in society, if not in converting people to seeing the Nazis and Ukro-collaborators as their defenders against the Bolshevik hordes, to at least simply not caring enough to defend the memory of their ancestors.
Also, the neo-nazis in the Ukraine themselves, make for useful thugs for the oligarch elite when it comes to internal repressions, harassing rivals and dissenters, as well as crude but commited shocktroops in the war.

flamming_python wrote:

Finty wrote:Beggar's belief why any Eastern European would idolize Nazi ideology when you consider what they did to your peoples. I think of the the Russian football hooligans in that context too, room temperature IQ morons.

Well Hitler was fighting for a united Europe, was he not?

And Eastern Europeans today are all humming to the tune of European civilization, etc etc etc, basically where all the money comes from and where their oligarchs have their bank accounts. But still most are smart enough to not go full retard and remember what their ancestors went through under Nazi occupation.

If we want to go into why you had collaborators back then, then it was from all sorts of things - genuine belief that the Germans would grant them their own independent national states (in the Ukraine that fell through pretty quickly, the chief nationalist Bandera was arrested by the Germans themselves), to desire for vengeance against Stalin's repressions, to racial theories being popular at the time and Hitler's ideals having a sort of appeal, to anti-Semitism and the belief in a Jewish financial order which should be opposed including their own neighbours, and so on.

As for today, it's basically the descendants of some of those people, as well as the oligarchs and elites of some of these states wanting to distance themselves from Russia to the point of cutting human ties with Russia and so slowly move to equate the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, to eventually just saying that actually the Soviet Union was even worse, and actually holding and sponsoring Waffen SS parades in the capital and having official holidays, while harrassing pro Red Army parades.
In the Ukraine, which lost more civilian lives to the Nazis proportionately than Russia did - such a policy is absurd. But they've actually managed quite a bit of progress in society, if not in converting people to seeing the Nazis and Ukro-collaborators as their defenders against the Bolshevik hordes, to at least simply not caring enough to defend the memory of their ancestors.
Also, the neo-nazis in the Ukraine themselves, make for useful thugs for the oligarch elite when it comes to internal repressions, harassing rivals and dissenters, as well as crude but commited shocktroops in the war.

Goods points, reminds me of the footage I've seen of Ukrainians or some other peoples in the east welcoming the Germans as they occupied their lands.

The point I've highlighted is interesting. It's fair to say that the Soviets had blackspots on their name (things like Katyn and mass deportations) but I can acknowledge as a Brit that the Brits weren't perfect either, and ultimately it was the Soviet war effort that played such a key part in saving the world. This hasn't been completely whitewashed in the west, there documentary world at war dates from the cold war era and makes this point. Yes, aspects of the USSR were repressive (like aforementioned stuff and the postwar establishment of satellite states) but those far right Ukrainians probably won't realise that, although history isn't black and white, they were saved from a worse tyranny. The level of ethnic genocide just wasn't there with the Soviets.

In other words, they should show some respect and try reading a textbook rather than pratting around doing that stupid f*cking salute.

Finty wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Finty wrote:Beggar's belief why any Eastern European would idolize Nazi ideology when you consider what they did to your peoples. I think of the the Russian football hooligans in that context too, room temperature IQ morons.

Well Hitler was fighting for a united Europe, was he not?

And Eastern Europeans today are all humming to the tune of European civilization, etc etc etc, basically where all the money comes from and where their oligarchs have their bank accounts. But still most are smart enough to not go full retard and remember what their ancestors went through under Nazi occupation.

If we want to go into why you had collaborators back then, then it was from all sorts of things - genuine belief that the Germans would grant them their own independent national states (in the Ukraine that fell through pretty quickly, the chief nationalist Bandera was arrested by the Germans themselves), to desire for vengeance against Stalin's repressions, to racial theories being popular at the time and Hitler's ideals having a sort of appeal, to anti-Semitism and the belief in a Jewish financial order which should be opposed including their own neighbours, and so on.

As for today, it's basically the descendants of some of those people, as well as the oligarchs and elites of some of these states wanting to distance themselves from Russia to the point of cutting human ties with Russia and so slowly move to equate the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, to eventually just saying that actually the Soviet Union was even worse, and actually holding and sponsoring Waffen SS parades in the capital and having official holidays, while harrassing pro Red Army parades.
In the Ukraine, which lost more civilian lives to the Nazis proportionately than Russia did - such a policy is absurd. But they've actually managed quite a bit of progress in society, if not in converting people to seeing the Nazis and Ukro-collaborators as their defenders against the Bolshevik hordes, to at least simply not caring enough to defend the memory of their ancestors.
Also, the neo-nazis in the Ukraine themselves, make for useful thugs for the oligarch elite when it comes to internal repressions, harassing rivals and dissenters, as well as crude but commited shocktroops in the war.

Goods points, reminds me of the footage I've seen of Ukrainians or some other peoples in the east welcoming the Germans as they occupied their lands.

The point I've highlighted is interesting. It's fair to say that the Soviets had blackspots on their name (things like Katyn and mass deportations) but I can acknowledge as a Brit that the Brits weren't perfect either, and ultimately it was the Soviet war effort that played such a key part in saving the world. This hasn't been completely whitewashed in the west, there documentary world at war dates from the cold war era and makes this point. Yes, aspects of the USSR were repressive (like aforementioned stuff and the postwar establishment of satellite states) but those far right Ukrainians probably won't realise that, although history isn't black and white, they were saved from a worse tyranny. The level of ethnic genocide just wasn't there with the Soviets.

In other words, they should show some respect and try reading a textbook rather than pratting around doing that stupid f*cking salute.

It doesn't really matter

The skull-heads buying into the Nazi shit now are too dumb to know much about history. We had the same scum in Russia in the 90s and early 2000s, skinhead gangs who shaved their heads and had swastika tattoos. That their ancestors were all in the Red Army and fighting for the right of the Russian people to survive did not enter their thick heads.

They have nothing else in their lives to be proud of, and nothing about their country to be proud of, so they're proud of their race, and attempt to advance some political demands with it.
But the broader picture is that they're just tools, with their propaganda paid for by various oligarchs interested in having at their service their own retinue of thugs, and advancing the ideology with it so that they can capitalize on it in politics. That's what we were beginning to see in Russia 20 years ago but fortunately it was put a stop to, and those bone-heads and their gangs all busted, and the oligarchs meanwhile started to get shut out from political power - around 2006 or so was the final year of the neo-nazi public presence. The rising political force of Russian ethno-nationalism started to be countered by the government ideology of civic nationalism, with the ideological component being the Soviet victory in WW2. Russia started winning in sport events and the economy started to improve, there began to appear civil things to be proud of when it came to the country. Anti-defamation laws were introduced, against public speech insulting any ethnicities or religions. There are people who criticize such policies as PC in the West, but in my mind they're still much better than the alternative, and the alternative we can see in the Ukraine

In the Ukraine you had the exact same phenomenon as in Russia, only it wasn't countered, it continued, the Nazi presence and the Ukrainian nationalist organizations that underpinned them only got stronger and got more oligarchs interested in working with them. This culminated during the 2014 Maidan coup when these people were used as front-line troops against the police. And from that point on their presence was expanded only further - senior neo-nazi thugs started to get appointed to positions of authority in the police, nationalist units of the Interior Ministry were formed and used in the war (first as just volunteer battallions of Right Sector, etc.. but later actually included officially into the law enforcement structures), they got yet more funding to expand their propaganda, they got holidays in the names of their heroes, marches and official speeches in favour of the Waffen SS Galicia division, and so on.

Oh boy if Russia and putin are embracing civic nationalism than Russia and the world is doomed. We tried civic nationalism in the US and it failed miserably. When you let the third world in and stop caring about your own people you turn into the 3rd world. That is very bad news.

3rd world hordes only care about gimme dat and economic opportunities. Russia should not cater to any Stan countries and tatars for any reason.

Finty wrote:Beggar's belief why any Eastern European would idolize Nazi ideology when you consider what they did to your peoples. I think of the the Russian football hooligans in that context too, room temperature IQ morons.

you forget much of eastern Europe fought alongside the Nazis The Croatians, The Bulgarians, Romanians and Hungarians and don't get me started on the baltic 3 of Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania .... these countries along with Western Ukraine have always been hostile towards Russia

kvs wrote:
I have to give the Hungarians credit.   Out of that group they are the least nostalgic for those days.   Even Poland which was one of the prime victims
of the Nazis is off the rails with its frothing at the mouth hate for Russia and open alliance with the Kiev Nazis (aka Banderites).   Hungary does not have
a lovey dovey relationship with Kiev.  

I am a bit surprised by the sober attitude in Hungary since they experienced the 1956 suppression of the uprising.   The Prague spring suppression was
gentle by comparison.  

Not surprized at all, they are able to see what happened or is happening in North/West Euro land including Germany/France/Dutch/Nordics and Englistan. Orban is a smart guy....Poles are smart too if you can understand what they are doing compared to German/French/Italian/Dutch trash setting aside their historical Russian hate and soviet domination

On the otherhand baltics are the annoying bugs for whom it never ends well...

The Poles are so "smart" pretty soon they'll be importing tanks, when back in the evil bad Soviet Union times they produced their own tanks.
Their future is producing buggy game software like Cyberpunk 2077 where they can pretend to shoot at people.

bitcointrader70 wrote:Oh boy if Russia and putin are embracing civic nationalism than Russia and the world is doomed. We tried civic nationalism in the US and it failed miserably. When you let the third world in and stop caring about your own people you turn into the 3rd world. That is very bad news.

3rd world hordes only care about gimme dat and economic opportunities. Russia should not cater to any Stan countries and tatars for any reason.

Deal with it

And no-one's importing masses of third-worlders into Russia. I guess Uzbeks and Tajiks might count, but actually they're a world apart from the sort of people I see enter Europe, even if materially speaking their countries are poor.

lancelot wrote:The Poles are so "smart" pretty soon they'll be importing tanks, when back in the evil bad Soviet Union times they produced their own tanks.
Their future is producing buggy game software like Cyberpunk 2077.

Soviet dumbness need not be highlited as poles greatness or lack of it....not many countries produce stuff anymore in the world. Perhaps you can think a bit more...
Also the "great polish army" does not need to manufacture stuff like that and be competitive, this is a different era and they are not fighting block wars behind walls. They simply don't have the scale nor economy to sustain independent military development of anything major.

flamming_python wrote:
Deal with it

And no-one's importing masses of third-worlders into Russia. I guess Uzbeks and Tajiks might count, but actually they're a world apart from the sort of people I see enter Europe, even if materially speaking their countries are poor.

third world will soon be heaven like compared to the confusion wars coming to our lands here in the west.

Godric wrote:

Finty wrote:Beggar's belief why any Eastern European would idolize Nazi ideology when you consider what they did to your peoples. I think of the the Russian football hooligans in that context too, room temperature IQ morons.

you forget much of eastern Europe fought alongside the Nazis  The Croatians, The Bulgarians, Romanians and Hungarians  and don't get me started on the baltic 3 of Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania .... these countries along with Western Ukraine have always been hostile towards  Russia  

True, it's like internalised self-hatred. The Nazis wouldn't have seen them as equals in ethnic terms, pathetic really.

Finty wrote:
True, it's like internalised self-hatred. The Nazis wouldn't have seen them as equals in ethnic terms, pathetic really.

I don't think one can simplistically look at it that way....countries make compromises as necessary to survive and various other reasons. 100 years from now, we may be reading how west destroyed Libya and China imprisoned millions in Xinjiang and Tibet and so on....present always does not look as bad unless in hindsight. We may also how peaceful islam is and globalization may be the best thing or worst thing that replaced locals in their lands and so on...

kvs wrote:

Godric wrote:

Finty wrote:Beggar's belief why any Eastern European would idolize Nazi ideology when you consider what they did to your peoples. I think of the the Russian football hooligans in that context too, room temperature IQ morons.

you forget much of eastern Europe fought alongside the Nazis  The Croatians, The Bulgarians, Romanians and Hungarians  and don't get me started on the baltic 3 of Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania .... these countries along with Western Ukraine have always been hostile towards  Russia  

I have to give the Hungarians credit.   Out of that group they are the least nostalgic for those days.   Even Poland which was one of the prime victims
of the Nazis is off the rails with its frothing at the mouth hate for Russia and open alliance with the Kiev Nazis (aka Banderites).   Hungary does not have
a lovey dovey relationship with Kiev.  

I am a bit surprised by the sober attitude in Hungary since they experienced the 1956 suppression of the uprising.   The Prague spring suppression was
gentle by comparison.  

The Hungarians have little good to say about the Soviet period, but they're not interested in conflating modern Russia or its interests with that of Khruschev's USSR, they understand perfectly well that the USSR is gone and its interests in spreading ideology along with it; and they have a mind to capitalize on it - working out deals for nuclear power, the COVID vaccine, Russian investment banks, gas pipelines and so on.

gbu48098 wrote:

Finty wrote:
True, it's like internalised self-hatred. The Nazis wouldn't have seen them as equals in ethnic terms, pathetic really.

I don't think one can simplistically look at it that way....countries make compromises as necessary to survive and various other reasons. 100 years from now, we may be reading how west destroyed Libya and China imprisoned millions in Xinjiang and Tibet and so on....present always does not look as bad unless in hindsight. We may also how peaceful islam is and globalization may be the best thing or worst thing that replaced locals in their lands and so on...

Indeed but with the benefit of hindsight, those retards should know not to take the side of the people responsible for the worst genocide and most destructive conflict in history. Of course some people are brainlets and easily swayed by propaganda.

Finty wrote:

Godric wrote:

Finty wrote:Beggar's belief why any Eastern European would idolize Nazi ideology when you consider what they did to your peoples. I think of the the Russian football hooligans in that context too, room temperature IQ morons.

you forget much of eastern Europe fought alongside the Nazis The Croatians, The Bulgarians, Romanians and Hungarians and don't get me started on the baltic 3 of Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania .... these countries along with Western Ukraine have always been hostile towards Russia

True, it's like internalised self-hatred. The Nazis wouldn't have seen them as equals in ethnic terms, pathetic really.

The Nazis didn't see them as equals in ethnic terms

The modern West doesn't see them as equals in moral or civilizational terms. But those fellas are all happy to take the money and nod to every lesson about democracy and human rights.

Well whatever. The West does have some things to teach, including to the Eastern Europeans, but at the same time the societies there are just different, formed differently, had different historical experiences, and face a different reality today - despite all the claimed allegiances to a common European identity and so on; a lot of that is wallpaper.

I suspect the Romanians, Hungarians, Poles are kind of bidding their time, until they have enough strength to assert more of their own authority and their own civilizational ideas. Which are pretty reactionary, Christian civilization and so on - but then they don't have to worry about offending anyone I guess. The real absurdity though is just that they're already starting to do it, even while continuing to get huge funds and payments from Western European liberal states every year via the EU. You ought to be glad that Britain exited that particular nuthouse.

"Pictures of a Ukrainian Dream"



https://thesaker.is/pictures-of-a-ukrainian-dream/







"Insider view: the tragedy of the US Deep State"


https://thesaker.is/insider-view-the-tragedy-of-the-us-deep-state/