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    India and Russia joint military projects: News

    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor on Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:27 pm

    Sujoy wrote:
    Viktor wrote:As a matter of fact this is rater old news. Russia has approached India few times on this issue.

    As I stated in my earlier post this is a probability and going by the situation as it's evolving now it seems both sides are interested. The news may be old but recent developments are new . I am highlighting the development not the news per se .

    Viktor wrote:After that there where no news for several years and here you are, with fresh ones.

    Cannot be several years . First presentation was made by UVZ in 2009 to an Indian delegation that visited their plant.Prior to that it was an expression of interest only. Serious discussions started towards the end of 2010 during the Futuristic Main Battle Tank conference in New Delhi and they are on going . The IA has laid out it's specifications. The question is do they have the budget for it. The cost aspect is now being discussed

    I know this is just an update. Glad that new tank project is going in the right direction.

    Besides at the time I read about it it was just proposition, now presentation was mentioned. Who knows.
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    Post  Sujoy on Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:35 pm

    Viktor wrote:
    I know this is just an update. Glad that new tank project is going in the right direction.

    Besides at the time I read about it it was just proposition, now presentation was mentioned. Who knows.

    Actually in 2008 Russia had shown a presentation of probably the T 95 or some other tank but not the FMBT which Russia now plans to design. and I recon it was basically a similar presentation shown in 2009 . However , the India side did not have enough budgetary allocation as most of the money would go in upgrading the T 90s and developing Arjun MKII . At that time the concept of an FMBT was not being discussed in India as it was financially un viable. Now their is a realization that the army needs a quantum leap in technology to maintain a technological edge over China & Pakistan . So the IA is interested in the Russian model of the FMBT. However it cannot stop the upgradation of the T 90s and Arjun . It has however made a presentation of it's FMBT requirement and send it to UVZ . Question is to what extent the 2013-14 Defense budget will be raised so as to finance this deal
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 on Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:59 pm

    Russia's new MBT will be far heavier?

    Wut?

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    Post  Zivo on Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:17 pm

    It's probably referring to 195. Which is apparently heavier than 50 tons. It also makes reference to the 152mm gun, which as far as we know wont be used on Armata unless the west makes a 80 ton behemoth for their next-gen tank. The 1800hp engine is music to my ears though, I hope that power pack finds its way onto Armata.

    The article is dated, but it's news to me that India showed interest in Object 195, and Armata. I wonder what's up with Arjun?
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    Post  TR1 on Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:32 pm

    1800 hp engine seems grossly overpowered for the kind of weight Russia wants from Armata - barely over 50 ton range.
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    Post  Zivo on Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:42 am

    TR1 wrote:1800 hp engine seems grossly overpowered for the kind of weight Russia wants from Armata - barely over 50 ton range.

    It may be overpowered, but when an M1 crew challenges an Armata crew to a drag race, the extra power wont be regretted. Razz

    There's also a 1500hp, and a 1650hp engine that were tested on Object 195. On a serious note, if the T-95 uses a diesel-electric or hydraulic mechanical transmission being overpowered isn't a problem, unless the engine is significantly larger in size.
    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy on Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:29 am

    TR1 wrote:Russia's new MBT will be far heavier?

    Wut?


    In the region of 55 tons .

    Zivo wrote:The article is dated, but it's news to me that India showed interest in Object 195, and Armata.

    Not entirely . India has shown interest in the joint development with Russia of a 55 ton( ballpark fig) , 1800hp FMBT. As I have said earlier currently there is NO budget that has been sanctioned by the MoD as the upgradation of the T 90S and development of Arjun MKII are more important.


    Zivo wrote: I wonder what's up with Arjun?

    India's FMBT may well be the Arjun MK3. Word is Russia can share expertise on the development of a 140mm smoothbore main gun and a 1,800hp engine ( for which even Cummins has pitched in).1500 Hp is sufficient for a 50-tonne tank, but the endemic danger of weight over-runs in a new tank makes a 300 Hp margin prudent.

    The DRDO has brought in international consultants to design the engine and build Indian manufacturing capability in engine-related fields.German companies MTU and Renk, which supply engines and transmissions for the Arjun tank, refused to provide consultancy, realising that building Indian capability would end their market here. DRDO is now evaluating consultancy proposals from Ricardo of Britain and AVL of Austria.

    An Expression of Interest (EoI) has been floated to identify an Indian manufacturing partner.

    GarryB
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    India and Russia joint military projects: News - Page 2 Empty There is a bigger possibility that Russia & India will co-develop a Futuristic MBT .

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:26 am

    Armata was to have a family of engines for the different variants.

    Specific weights have not been revealed except hints that the armata MBT will be about 55 tons and the heaviest vehicle will be 65 tons, which I would speculate will be Koalition 152mm SPAG.

    The engines were supposed to start in the 1400hp range for the first models and for the lighter vehicles, which presumably include the APC and command vehicles, while more powerful models will be developed with a growth path to about 2,400hp eventually at the cost of engine life... till new materials make it a standard power performance.

    To be honest if they are planning to go for a conventional engine hybrid with an electric motor then diesel engines stop looking that interesting and the gas turbine suddenly looks more useful. When moving a heavy vehicle a gas turbine is not ideal because the high revs for acceleration are very fuel inefficient for a gas turbine. As a generator of power at a fixed optimum speed however a gas turbine is small and compact and light, as well as being a simple and efficient way to generate electricity. Their only remaining problems are a need for clean filtered air and of course heat signature. They do tend to be quieter than most diesels of similar power.
    Sujoy
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    India and Russia joint military projects: News - Page 2 Empty India to assemble Russian Mil and Kamov helicopters

    Post  Sujoy on Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:25 am



    Russian Helicopters holding and India’s Elcom Systems Pvt Limited have signed an agreement to set up a joint venture to assemble Russian Mil and Kamov helicopters in India, the Russian holding said on Wednesday.

    The agreement was signed during Russian President Vladimir Putin’s recent visit to India, press secretary Roman Kirillov said.

    He offered no timeframe for the joint venture, only saying the first helicopter it will start manufacturing will be the Ka-226T multirole helicopter.



    Source : RIA Novosti
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:01 am

    Good news... hope the Ka-266T is successful.
    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor on Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:19 pm

    Took me by surprise - I thought that this was a done deal already

    Russia and India will sign an agreement to develop a miniature version of the missile "Brahmos"
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    Post  Dima on Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:23 pm

    Viktor wrote:Took me by surprise - I thought that this was a done deal already

    Russia and India will sign an agreement to develop a miniature version of the missile "Brahmos"
    My humble opinion is that Russia should go it alone.

    They should rather develop it truly as mini Yakhont and sell it at market value and generate good revenue. Calculated risk is an integral part to Market practice. Russia needs to learn and employ it effectively. It will keep the entire industry in good stead.

    IL-214 (C130J), Tu-204P (P8I), Yak-152K (Pilatus).... are just few cases of sales loss that could have been avoided if Russian MoD/ROE had taken calculated risks to develop these without waiting for a concrete order....
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:13 pm

    My humble opinion is that Russia should go it alone.

    They should rather develop it truly as mini Yakhont and sell it at market value and generate good revenue. Calculated risk is an integral part to Market practice. Russia needs to learn and employ it effectively. It will keep the entire industry in good stead.

    I disagree... having lots of development partners means automatic market for products, and the input is more than just money.

    Believe it or not foreign countries can be rather more demanding in terms of performance and capabilities and their input can result in a very much better product.
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    Post  Viktor on Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:54 pm

    Hopefully new kick start is expected ... thumbsup

    Delayed FGFA Deal May Get The Nudge During Putin’s India Visit
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    India and Russia joint military projects: News - Page 2 Empty India to procure Russian SOSNA-R

    Post  IDB on Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:53 am

    News have come up regarding the procurement of SOSNA-R air defence system from Russia for Indian defence forces
    The project is nearing completion.

    What is the review of the system in Russian service and would it be effective last point of defence considering India is building its short range aakash , aad , pad systems aswell.
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    Post  Mike E on Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:25 am

    IDB wrote:News have come up regarding the procurement of SOSNA-R air defence system from Russia for Indian defence forces
    The project is nearing completion.

    What is the review of the system in Russian service and would it be effective last point of defence  considering India is building its short range aakash , aad , pad systems aswell.
    I cannot say exactly how successful the system has been, but clearly it has been good enough for the Russian government to buy them in large numbers... It would fit perfectly below the Akash-system, and would allow India to begin replacing their Strela's. PAD and AAD are both built for ABM-like purposes, with the PAD engaging targets at an altitude of 80 km maximum and the AAD engaging its targets at a maximum ceiling of 30 km. SOSNA-R is built for different tasks, like destroying aircraft and UAV's, along with cruise missile etc. So yes, it would be a good last-point of defense within Indian forces.
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:04 am

    AFAIK Sosna-R is not actually in Russian service, or if it is it is not in wide spread service.

    It is a two stage missile like Pantsir, with the missile stage optimised for very high speed and laser beam homing guidance.

    It should be a very capable system and AFAIK will likely replace the Strela-10M... or SA-13 in Russian service.

    Effective range is 10km with a very high speed, very accurate missile.

    Likely a naval system too as fitted to Palma... the cheaper, simpler alternative to Pantsir.
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    Post  higurashihougi on Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:47 pm

    GarryB wrote:Likely a naval system too as fitted to Palma... the cheaper, simpler alternative to Pantsir.

    You means alternative to Kortik ? Question
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    Post  Werewolf on Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:20 pm

    Found a great site about russian Rocket Technologies.

    Here is Sosna.

    http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/sosna/sosna.shtml

    Зенитный ракетный комплекс (ЗРК) "Сосна" предназначен для защиты войсковых частей и подразделений в любых формах боевых действий, в том числе на марше, от средств воздушного нападения и разведки вероятного противника.

    Комплекс обеспечивает поражение вертолетов, самолетов, средств ВТО, крылатых ракет, дистанционно управляемых аппаратов и легкобронированной наземной техники в любое время суток в условиях ограниченной видимости при наличии естественных и искусственных помех на дальности до 10км.

    Головной разработчик комплекса - ОАО «Конструкторское бюро точного машиностроения имени А.Э. Нудельмана» . Разработка комплекса велась с 1987 года. Основными направлениями работ являлось повышение боевой устойчивости комплекса, снижение стоимости боевой машины. Повышение боевой устойчивости ЗРК было достигнуто за счет отказа от использования радиолокационных систем обнаружения, с целью снижения уязвимости от противорадиолокационных вооружений противника.

    ЗРК "Сосна"имеет модульную конструкцию, составляющие которого могут устанавливаться на различных носителях с грузоподъемностью не менее 3.5т, а также выполняться в стационарных вариантах. По желанию заказчика комплекс может изготавливаться как в комбинированном ракетно-пушечном варианте (см. фото), так и в только пушечном или ракетном.

    На вооружение российской армии предлагается ракетный вариант комплекса на шасси многоцелевого легкобронированного тягача МТЛБ.

    Впервые комплекс в виде постеров был продемонстрирован на международной оружейной выставке в Абу-Даби IDEX-2003 и МАКС-2003, в дальнейшем различные варианты и компоненты комплекса неоднократно экспонировались на различных выставочных площадках.

    ЗРК "Сосна" по основным структурным элементам – средствам поражения и управления полностью унифицирован с корабельным ракетно-артиллерийским комплексом "Пальма". Ракета «Сосна-Р» из состава комплекса также применяется в ЗРК «Стрела-10М4».

    По состоянию на 2013 год комплекс находился на испытаних.
    Состав

    В состав боевого модуля комплекса входят:

    два пакета с шестью ракетами "Сосна-Р" в транспортно-пусковых контейнерах,
    оптико-электронная система управления,
    цифровая вычислительная система,
    механизмы наведения,
    система электропитания.

    Ракета "Сосна-Р"- двухступенчатая с отделяемым двигателем. После выхода ракеты из контейнера управление осуществляется при помощи радиокомандной системы, которая выводит ее на линию визирования, затем отделяется стартовый двигатель и включается помехозащищенная лазерная система наведения.

    Боевая часть: осколочно-стержневая для поражения на пролете, бронебойно-осколочная для поражения при прямых попаданиях. Взрыватель - лазерный неконтактно-контактный с непрерывной круговой диаграммой излучения и адаптивным временем подрыва .

    Ракета не нуждается в дополнительных проверках или испытаниях в течение всего срока службы. Небольшая масса ракеты позволила исключить транспортно-заряжающую машину из состава комплекса.

    Первоначально в составе комплекса использовалась зенитная двухступенчатая управляемая ракета 9М337 (см. фото_1, фото_2, фото_3) , в настоящее время ЗРК «Сосна» оснащается ЗУР 9М340 (9М340Э) (см. фото_1, фото_2, фото_3, фото_4, фото_5).

    Ракета 9М337 способна обеспечить поражение целей, летящих на высотах до 3500 метров. Дальность поражения составляет от 1,3 до 8 км, при этом время полёта ракеты на максимальную дальность составляет 11 секунд. Боевая часть массой 5 кг. Масса ракеты в транспортно-пусковом контейнере составляет 36 кг, без контейнера — 25..26 кг.

    Оптико-электронная система управления комплекса обладает высокими точностными характеристиками по определению координат целей, помехозашишенностью и скрытностью действия и обеспечивает автоматизированную боевую работу комплекса от момента обнаружения целей до их обстрела.

    В её состав входят: оптико-электронный модуль (ОЭМ), цифровая вычислительная система, приводы горизонтального и вертикального наведения вооружения, пульт управления и индикации, блок питания, автоматы захвата и сопровождения ЗУР и цели.

    ОЭМ размещен на гиростабилизированной платформе и служит для автономного или по данным внешнего целеуказания (РЛС, вышестоящий КП) обнаружения цели, автоматического или полуавтоматического сопровождения, высокоточного определения ее координат (углов визирования цели и дальности) и выдачи их в цифровую вычислительную систему для стрельбы.

    В состав ОЭМ входят:

    телевизионная система,
    тепловизионный канал,
    лазерный дальномер с устройством отклонения луча,
    аппаратура лазерно-лучевого канала управления ракетой,
    тепловизионный канал пеленгатора ракеты,
    устройство климатического контроля.

    Автономное обнаружение цели осушествляется телевизионным каналом с широким полем зрения, а определение дальности до нее - лазерным дальномером, работающим в автоматическом режиме.

    Ракеты и сам зенитный комплекс защищены от помех сразу несколькими методами, внедренными на уровне конструкции. Так, расположение приемника лазерного излучения в задней части ракеты не позволяет исказить или заглушить управляющий сигнал. Помехозащищенность наземной части комплекса обеспечивается узким полем зрения теле- и тепловизионных каналов, а также применением специальных вычислительных алгоритмов, позволяющих опознавать цель по ее характерным признакам. Комплекс практически нечувствителен к радиолокационным и оптическим средствам подавления, применяемым противником.

    Сочетание высокого уровня характеристик ракеты и системы управления позволяет получить большие зоны поражения (см. схему). ЗРК «Сосна» может применяться в составе батареи, в том числе смешанного состава, получая целеуказание от батарейного пункта управления или командирской машины, а также автономно. Батарея ЗРК «Сосна», используя секторный поиск, может обходиться и без внешнего целеуказания, осуществляя круговой обзор и обнаружение цели в пассивном режиме, что делает невозможными атаки ПРР.


    Тактико-технические характеристики

    Дальность поражения целей, км 1.3-10

    Высота полета поражаемых целей, м 2-5000
    Время реакции, с 5
    Время перезарядки, мин 10

    Оптико-электронная система управления

    Диапазон углов наведения, град:
    по азимуту ±178
    по углу места от -20 до 82

    Максимальная угловая скорость, град/c 50
    Максимальное угловое ускорение, град/с2 150

    Поле зрения, град:
    телевизионная система 2.0х3.0 /6.5х9.0
    тепловизионный канал 1.67х2.5 /8.0х12.0

    Дальность взятия на автосопровождение целей при МДВ=15км, р=80%, км:
    самолеты 16-30
    вертолеты 10-14
    крылатые ракеты 8-12
    бронированные объекты 8



    Точность (СКО):
    стабилизации, мрад 0.07
    определения координат,мрад 0.2
    определения дальности,м 5.0
    наведения ЛД 0.1
    наведения информационного поля ЛЛКУ,мрад 0.08-0.12





    Ракета "Сосна-Р"
    Зона поражения, км:
    по дальности: 10
    по высоте: 5


    Cкорость полета, м/с:
    максимальная 875
    средняя с учетом наведения 565


    Суммарная масса БЧ, кг 6.9
    Масса ЗУР, м:
    стартовая 30.6
    в ТПК 42


    Калибр, мм:
    до разделения 132
    после разделения 72


    Длина ЗУР, мм:
    в полете 2317
    в ТПК 2400

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:09 am

    You means alternative to Kortik ?

    Kortik won't be put on a new Russian ship now... it will be Pantsir for capable, or Palma for cheap and simple.
    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor on Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:21 pm

    Nice thumbsup

    17/12/14 RUSSIA AGREED TO INCREASE THE SHARE OF INDIA IN THE PROGRAM FGFA UP TO 25%
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:31 am

    Russia, India may launch joint weapons development and production projects

    MOSCOW. Russian President Vladimir Putin believes that in the sphere of military and technical cooperation Russia and India may complement the traditional pattern of weapons supplies with joint development and production of advanced weapon systems.

    “The high level of bilateral cooperation and trust allows us to start a gradual transition from the traditional producer-consumer model to joint development and production of advanced weapon systems,” Putin told India’s PTI news agency in an interview, adding that the supplies of military hardware and closer technological and industrial cooperation between the two countries would be discussed in detail in New Delhi on December 11. “We already have examples of such effective cooperation, by which I mean the production of high-precision up-to-date BrahMos missiles and creation of a multifunctional fifth-generation fighter aircraft.”

    Putin pointed out that over the decades of cooperation in the military and technical sphere India earned the reputation of “a reliable and time-tested partner.” In bilateral relations, he said, “the development of military and technical cooperation is one of the main components of our strategic partnership.”.
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    Post  Kyo on Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:31 pm

    Russia, India complete draft project for FGFA.

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20150110/1016753683.html
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    Post  Viktor on Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:33 pm

    Hoping for the FGFA deal thumbsup

    Shoigu arrived on an official visit to India
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    Post  Viktor on Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:44 pm

    Shoigu got the thing going thumbsup


    01/22/15 INDIA AND RUSSIA WILL ACCELERATE THE IMPLEMENTATION OF JOINT MILITARY PROGRAMS

    "Military parity." January 21, India and Russia have agreed to accelerate the implementation of joint programs in the field of weapons, in particular, a fifth generation fighter, reports defencenews.in.

    In 2012, the two sides agreed on the joint development and production of fighter FGFA , R & D, manufacturing infrastructure, building prototypes and conducting flight tests of India and Russia will spend 5.5 billion US dollars.

    During yesterday's meeting ( photo ), the defense ministers of the two countries agreed to accelerate the progress of military programs. Speaking to reporters at the head of the Indian military establishment Manohar Parrikar (Manohar Parrikar) stated that "we have agreed on an expedited basis to resolve the accumulated problems." Fighter T-50 are undergoing flight tests in Russia, and in this regard the deployment of design work from scratch would be "a waste of time and resources." The Indian version will double (add operator arms). Parrikar also said that India wants to adopting a fifth-generation fighter is much earlier than planned, falling to 2024-2025 years. India intends to buy 127 fighter jets, the total cost could reach $ 25 billion.

    In addition, an agreement was reached that India will share with Russian flight information on accidents and disasters that will happen with the fighters, transport aircraft and helicopters Russian types, the armament of military aviation in India. This agreement is "critical" in the investigation of incidents. In October last year, illegally worked ejection seat of one of the Su-30MKI Indian Air Force, but Russia "challenged the Indian claims."

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