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    Russian Ground Forces: News #2

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    Hole
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  Hole on Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:33 pm

    The wars in Syria/Iraq/Yemen have shown that russian ATGM´s are at least a generation ahead of western ones. Also their vehicles are good protected, even old T-62M tanks withstood the impact of western ATGM´s.
    0nillie0
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  0nillie0 on Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:09 pm

    Hole wrote:The wars in Syria/Iraq/Yemen have shown that russian ATGM´s are at least a generation ahead of western ones. Also their vehicles are good protected, even old T-62M tanks withstood the impact of western ATGM´s.

    You are taking some huge liberties with such statements IMHO...

    To say that any/every Russian ATGM system is more advanced than any/every Western ATGM in all aspects inlcuding ease of operation, guidance method, guidance versatility, armor penetration, minimum/maximum range and terminal attack mode is simply..... Suspect

    Also : define "Western"...

    Sorry for the off-topic, i dont want to start a discussion about this. But a i have a more humble stance when it comes to matters like that, and this somewhat hurts my eyes, unless you can be more specific.
    miketheterrible
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:22 am

    Well, let's see.

    Javalin works great in perfect condition but less than ideal in majority of other enviornments.

    Tow and Tow 2 proven to be ineffective in Syria against older tanks.

    Kornet and Metis M proved otherwise to be great at destroying armor from afar, and being a fraction of the price.

    Melan I don't think fared much better than Tow 2.
    Hole
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  Hole on Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:30 am

    As some Leo2´s were literaly destroyed in northern Syria some western "experts" claimed that these were just an old version (from the late 80´s), but the missile (Konkurs) that destroyed them were from the 70´s.
    flamming_python
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  flamming_python on Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:11 am

    miketheterrible wrote:Well, let's see.

    Javalin works great in perfect condition but less than ideal in majority of other enviornments.

    Tow and Tow 2 proven to be ineffective in Syria against older tanks.

    Kornet and Metis M proved otherwise to be great at destroying armor from afar, and being a fraction of the price.

    Melan I don't think fared much better than Tow 2.

    I thought the TOW 2 fared quite well

    What did it fail against other than T-90s head-on?
    miketheterrible
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:24 pm

    T-72 upgrade it failed against as well.

    Only fared well against thin armored BMP-1's and 2's. Maybe done well against T-62's.
    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:39 pm

    Yep - it failed against anything with ERA from the front at least.

    Pretty much every ATGM would perform like this - HEAT jetstream is the size of a pencil, if the projectile does not hit anything important (ammo rack, crew member, gun breech) then the tank may even continue fighting as if nothing happened. It isn't APFSDS.
    miketheterrible
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:51 pm

    except for Challenger 2 when it got hit by a RPG-29 which isn't exactly the same as a Kornet.
    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:59 pm

    You mean the RPG-29 that hit Challys LFP which is 90 mm LOS?
    kvs
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  kvs on Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:10 pm

    The problem with the notion of intrinsic superiority of western wunderwaffen is that it does not conform to reality. How
    can countries like the USA where science and math are seen as nerd pathology and actively repressed by peer pressure
    in schools produce cadres needed for innovation in products where physics and mathematical rigour are paramount?
    MIT is composed of post-docs imported from around the world. Americans are a minority in their own premier Technical
    Institute. Americans do not go into physics careers, they worship money and try to make it big in business.

    The oft repeated claim that America's dollar wealth somehow gives it magical innovation ability is simply not credible.
    All it gives is grossly overpriced products and does not determine their quality. America still has not implemented
    reactive armour on its tanks? Why? Are they only prepared to attack 3rd world countries while beating their
    chests how they can take out Russia and China together? How about supersonic and hypersonic missiles? For
    a country that depends on WWII era dinosaurs called air craft carriers, it sure is cocky about them not being
    sunk in the middle of the Pacific or the Atlantic.

    I am not saying that American weapons are totally useless. But there is no way that they are automatically the
    best in the world.
    GarryB
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:24 am

    Most development requires money and where they do excel is travelling around the world looking for good ideas and smart people and offering to fund their research... of course once they start funding it they then own it and move it all to the US where it becomes American technology for China or whomever to steal.

    It is funny the US complaining about other countries stealing their technology when half of it they stole themselves... the worlds biggest spy network is run by the US for the US, so it is amusing when they complain.
    miketheterrible
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:28 am

    Well, that's the other thing. Like their tanks, M1, they use British Armor and German gun. Nothing American about it other than the gas hog engine. But oh man talk bad against it and Americans goes mad. Even though it's an overpriced, gas consuming hog with 4 man crew (no autoloader) with spotty reliability and shown to have lack of protection against atgm's.

    Leopard 2 same thing.

    Not saying Russian tanks are all the better either but at least they admit T-72B in basic form won't survive such hits and hence why they were heavily upgraded to be able to survive a hit or two.

    Hole
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  Hole on Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:53 am

    Good old T-62M used in Syria has no reactice armour, only so called horse-shoe add-on armour at the front of the turret but even this version  survived hits by western ATGM´s.

    The M1 TUSK has reactive armour. Really interesting, for 20+ years the muricans were saying that it is shit, that it is dangerous for the infantry… BUMM! A few tanks lost in Iraq and all ill feelings towards it are gone. Very Happy

    Main point is that it is no good to just compare virtual data put out by the manufacturer or some PR department of an army, but to see actually what a weapon can do in a real war. And Syria/Iraq/Yemen have shown that russian weapons are working, that they do their job, compared to some western stuff that is completely overrated.
    George1
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  George1 on Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:56 am

    New elite tank unit

    As reported by the press service of the Western Military District on March 16, 2019, among the servicemen of the [1st] Guards Tank Army of the Western Military District launched a competitive selection to serve in positions in the crews of the legendary T-34 tanks as part of the newly formed battalion of vintage equipment that arrived from Laos.

    Only servicemen, both on conscription and under contract, who serve in positions in tank units on T-72B-3, T-80U and T-90S tanks, can participate in the competition. Selection includes theoretical and practical steps. Soldiers and sergeants need to answer questions about the history of the creation of the T-34 tank, its structure and design, as well as pass no less than “excellent” passage of the route on a regular tank at the tankdrome with obstacles. Additional assignment for officers - professional vocational training.

    Currently, the competition among military personnel for the right to join the crews of the legendary T-34 tanks exceeded 13 people per seat. Applications were filed by soldiers, sergeants and officers serving in Moscow, Moscow and Nizhny Novgorod regions.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3572492.html
    flamming_python
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:00 am

    George1 wrote:New elite tank unit

    As reported by the press service of the Western Military District on March 16, 2019, among the servicemen of the [1st] Guards Tank Army of the Western Military District launched a competitive selection to serve in positions in the crews of the legendary T-34 tanks as part of the newly formed battalion of vintage equipment that arrived from Laos.

    Only servicemen, both on conscription and under contract, who serve in positions in tank units on T-72B-3, T-80U and T-90S tanks, can participate in the competition. Selection includes theoretical and practical steps. Soldiers and sergeants need to answer questions about the history of the creation of the T-34 tank, its structure and design, as well as pass no less than “excellent” passage of the route on a regular tank at the tankdrome with obstacles. Additional assignment for officers - professional vocational training.

    Currently, the competition among military personnel for the right to join the crews of the legendary T-34 tanks exceeded 13 people per seat. Applications were filed by soldiers, sergeants and officers serving in Moscow, Moscow and Nizhny Novgorod regions.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3572492.html

    Instead of this propaganda battalion they could have fielded another battalion of T-72B3s or perhaps T-80BVMs with all these tankists.

    Or is it just a part-time duty for servicemen assigned permanently to proper tank units?
    franco
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  franco on Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:02 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    George1 wrote:New elite tank unit

    As reported by the press service of the Western Military District on March 16, 2019, among the servicemen of the [1st] Guards Tank Army of the Western Military District launched a competitive selection to serve in positions in the crews of the legendary T-34 tanks as part of the newly formed battalion of vintage equipment that arrived from Laos.

    Only servicemen, both on conscription and under contract, who serve in positions in tank units on T-72B-3, T-80U and T-90S tanks, can participate in the competition. Selection includes theoretical and practical steps. Soldiers and sergeants need to answer questions about the history of the creation of the T-34 tank, its structure and design, as well as pass no less than “excellent” passage of the route on a regular tank at the tankdrome with obstacles. Additional assignment for officers - professional vocational training.

    Currently, the competition among military personnel for the right to join the crews of the legendary T-34 tanks exceeded 13 people per seat. Applications were filed by soldiers, sergeants and officers serving in Moscow, Moscow and Nizhny Novgorod regions.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3572492.html

    Instead of this propaganda battalion they could have fielded another battalion of T-72B3s or perhaps T-80BVMs with all these tankists.

    Or is it just a part-time duty for servicemen assigned permanently to proper tank units?

    Suspect very much that is part time... Russian Army doesn't have the spare bodies to play Heritage War games.

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