Russian Liberal Opposition

Tsavo Lion wrote:America can afford more costly mistakes & wasteful spending than Russia. She can also afford to print a lot more $ than Russia.
Lastly, she recently evicted a moronic woud-be dictator from the White House & the new immigrants will be admitted to help "make her great again" for sure.

kvs wrote:

Tsavo Lion wrote:A bill on sanctions against the Russian Federation due to Navalny submitted to the US Congress

Certain oligarchs close to Putin will have their assets seized abroad. It's about time!

Fuck off troll.  This "close oligarchs to Putin will suffer" joke has been going on since 2014.   Name me all those Putin oligarchs that
are "suffering".    

kvs wrote:

Tsavo Lion wrote:A bill on sanctions against the Russian Federation due to Navalny submitted to the US Congress
Certain oligarchs close to Putin will have their assets seized abroad. It's about time!

Fuck off troll.  This "close oligarchs to Putin will suffer" joke has been going on since 2014.   Name me all those Putin oligarchs that
are "suffering".

miketheterrible wrote:

Tsavo Lion wrote:America can afford more costly mistakes & wasteful spending than Russia. She can also afford to print a lot more $ than Russia.
Lastly, she recently evicted a moronic woud-be dictator from the White House & the new immigrants will be admitted to help "make her great again" for sure.

You didn't answer his questions dumbass.
So, explain the math.  Show actual numbers and how they are tied to the state.

Nomad5891 wrote:My two cents- somehow Russians were outplayed in this round.
Of course Navalny and the forces behind him knew he was going to be arrested and eventually put in jail as soon as he lands in Russia.
It was either that ot Putin´s adminsitration showing the whole country that Navalny is above the law.

So, the plan has been from the begining to get Navalny in jail and then show the world how Russia is oppressing this poor, beloved opposition leader. And they got what they wanted. Even more, now it seems to the ordinary american or european that Navalny is in jail because he showed some secret Putin´s palace...

It is beyond my comprehension why Russia didn´t just revoke Navalny´s passport and forbid him from enetering the country from the start.
He would have been forgoten by now. Now, they just dont have a useful move.

.-I didn't vote in years, & but Trump, that disgusting scum, deserved to be voted out.

then read this

-and Putin grew from small to big criminal once he got power.

.- the Hebrews in Egypt had a good life too before, & compared to spending 40 years in the desert, but it was worth it to be free & be able to lead their own lives.

Just because Putin does things ona  different scale, it doesn't mean that he should be kept in power to continue his reign of corruption, intimidation & terror.

Give a small man a lot of power & he looses his head flaunting it while developing a mania of greatness.

.-right, Navalny also made $ in legit. business & his FBK reports all of its income & spending; only now he got accused of embezzling.

.- he's in a damage control mode after his FSB failed to kill him & got caught with its pants down.

.-no, from FBK investigations that u refuse to accept!

-the house I live in belongs to my landlord, but if I or some1 else pay rent, it's mine,

Others paid & still pay for that palace building, furnishings, repairs, maintenance, & security.

If u can't see the truth staring in ur face & comprehend it, perhaps it's better that u stop repeating the same shallow mantra above like a stuck recording.

-how do u know that? all the facts says the opposite; he thinks he must persecute him-see the above clip. who else would benefit from keeping him behind bars? certainly not those ordinary Russians that Putin rules on behalf of & with help by his propagandists tries to look like is concerned about their well being above all else.

-he does, & tries to cover his ass to look 100% clean.

- u have a very idealistic view of the RF realities. keep ur rosy glasses on, but stop lecturing me.

-w/o the local opposition, they won't make any difference.

Navalny is a lot smarter than Putin & his kill teams; the elites will soon make their own pivot towards him before turning their backs on a fresh political corpse.

.- either way, the writing is on the wall; he has many enemies all over the Globe & good luck to him with his judo skills.

- wrong, the German colonists in Russia all got Russified & many of their descendants who left the USSR came back. the Germans have no stomach to swallow Russia.

-Nemtsov was a big threat to his throne & had to be eliminated, regardless of consequences.

- PR!

In the old days, folks would go to the capital to present their grievances in person. talk is cheap, esp. when the lower officials ignore his decrees; if the system was efficient, there would be no need for that kind of troubleshooting. r u calling it normal?

- like the kind & benevolent Tsar that "didn't know" what his boyars were doing to the people. I remember the same thing when Andropov policies failed & were scaled back/stopped, many blamed the local party bosses, not him.

- if u think that Navalny doesn't know all that, it's ur other deep mistake.

-Navalny could give lectures in W. Europe/US/Canada Aus/NZ & earn more $ than in Russia

even as its president,

but still came back as he's a liberal politician now.

- FYI, that sentence since elapsed.

-thanks to being poisoned by FSB who then illegally tempered with evidence they got from cops twice.

-I can say u r giving more credit to Putin than he deserves!

-why not staying as an independent candidate? a party may still form around him or his successor.

-if was brain dead, he wouldn't be in power.

-& Putin got burned on it; hence the need for new constitution with old presidential terms annuled.

-wrong: they wanted to save Ms of german lives by making peace with UK & US to better negotiate with, & defend against the USSR.

the association is Putin=Hitler & Kaput in German is "finished, worn out, dead". A Russian in Vladivostok was holding it. These attitudes r not new there.

-for it to really work, Putin must go!

-he tried it & that train is gone; good riddance!

- if given a chance, he would kill Ms to stay in power.

- I never implied that. Oh, I forgot, u r from down under & can't be blamed for having different logical in/abilities!

-Putin's rule will add more stagnation & degradation.

- the US $ has an amazing ability to recover, unlike other currencies. if there's a political will, there is a way. there r professional stimulators of the economy here that earn their keep.

- no, it's up to them what to do, I'm just presenting my take & commenting on the situation.

.-no, Trump would make it a Nazi state. As I said, I'm not going to discuss internal US issues here.

-only so far, recall those in Belarus!

This is a good time to ban social media that is not good for Russia(like they are doing it in Murica.)

46 trillion rubles, or 609 billion dollars - this is exactly how much Putin's geopolitical failures cost the Russians, which brought nothing but the illusion of opposition to the West for Russia itself.

America can afford more costly mistakes & wasteful spending than Russia.

She can also afford to print a lot more $ than Russia.

Lastly, she recently evicted a moronic woud-be dictator from the White House & the new immigrants will be admitted to help "make her great again" for sure.

The Levada Centre, an independent pollster labelled as a foreign agent by Russia’s Ministry of Justice for its receipt of funding from overseas, conducted the research. In another survey late last year, the same group also found that only one in five Russians said they “approve” of the anti-corruption campaigner’s actions across all of activism and journalism. A full 50 percent said they disapproved, and 18 percent claimed they’d never even heard of him.

Better compare how many people emigrated to the US vs. to the RF

Certain oligarchs close to Putin will have their assets seized abroad. It's about time!

My two cents- somehow Russians were outplayed in this round.

It was either that ot Putin´s adminsitration showing the whole country that Navalny is above the law.

So, the plan has been from the begining to get Navalny in jail and then show the world how Russia is oppressing this poor, beloved opposition leader.

It is beyond my comprehension why Russia didn´t just revoke Navalny´s passport and forbid him from enetering the country from the start.
He would have been forgoten by now. Now, they just dont have a useful move.

it proves the federal gov actually doesn't give a shit about him.

I dont want to even think what will happen if this Navalny dude gets a natural heart arrest next 2.5 years...it will be game over for Putin, that is for sure.

And I think having Navalny arrested and in prison, was just following your oponents's plan for Russia.

Kiko wrote:As the Biden government is softening the US stance on NS-2 related sanctions on both Russia and Germany, expect toughening posture on Russia's liberal opposition focused alone with the united support of NATzO and related countries.

Nomad5891 wrote:C'mon for sure Putin or at least his team considered very carefully this whole Navalny thing. Yeah now they have it in prison, but it is like having a hot potatoe in your hands. I dont want to even think what will happen if this Navalny dude gets a natural heart arrest next 2.5 years...it will be game over for Putin, that is for sure.

It doesnt matter who Navalny really is, what matters is what mass media paints him as.

And it matters what avarage the Joe or Hans think to an extent that their governments need nation's support if they are to confront Russia.  
First thing one does before engaging in a conflict is painting the opponent as bad as possible, even dehumanize it.

And it is a steady process for the last...decade? I saw a guy on youtube that paid several interns to find ONE positive newspiece about Russia in USA mass media in 2020. And there was none. So yeah, there is a big confrontation going on beneath all the smiles and handshakes shown on TV.

And I think having Navalny arrested and in prison, was just following your oponents's plan for Russia.

PhSt wrote:You are spouting typical NATzO style coercion. line always goes like "Let our 5th column agents roam free and do whatever they want, if you arrest them you are doing want we want" BULLSHIT. Navalny needs to rot in prison for 10,000 years. Russia needs to prepare for war in its western borders, actually, maybe even bait NATzO to launch the first attack to justify a military response. This is will a golden opportunity to liberate Russian territories that are under illegal occupation by artificial countries like Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania  

GarryB wrote:

The title is ridiculous... Putin has nothing to do with what is happening to Navalny... - I'll let this article to be my reply:
For the Kremlin, Aleksei Navalny Is a Threat It Cannot Speak Of

-and Putin grew from small to big criminal once he got power.

You say that without any evidence of criminality...-it's described here:
https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2012-04-19/putin-and-the-100-million-deal-that-disappeared

https://www.journalofdemocracy.org/articles/stealing-russia-blind/

https://qz.com/1330955/russias-missing-wealth/

Just because Putin does things on a different scale, it doesn't mean that he should be kept in power to continue his reign of corruption, intimidation & terror.

Every election the people of Russia have the opportunity to vote him out. - not if they his opponents r barred from challenging him, as was the case up to now.
yet you seem to hate Putin.. why is that exactly?- a former KGB (NKVD/OGPU/MGB successor that cost her Ms of lives) under colonel shouldn't rule Russia, period. I remember living under Andropov police state, & it was no fun nor normal.
Putin said the building is not his and I have no reason not to believe him.- not formaly his, but under his control, & the FSO with restricted zones around it r there to welcome him while keeping others that have no business there away. Calling it by its proper name, it's a $1B bribe. 

Others paid & still pay for that palace building, furnishings, repairs, maintenance, & security.

But you live in your rented place... Putin has not been living in this so called palace. -after renovation, it wasn't going to stay empty. If some1 is given a bribe but doesn't use it for a long time, it doesn't mean that he wasn't bribed.

If u can't see the truth staring in ur face & comprehend it, perhaps it's better that u stop repeating the same shallow mantra above like a stuck recording.

The truth is pretty clear to me. -1 day u'll have a rude awakening.
Navalny violated the terms of his parole of course he had to go to jail to serve out his remaining jail term. If it was Putin interfering then why not give him an additional 10 years for making a fool of the courts..-he may add more years to his term, depending on the situation. Putin isn't very smart, but very cunning, like Stalin was.
..by ignoring their decisions and trying to discredit the entire country by going abroad and pretending to be sick -no, the FSB, Putin, & the RF gov. r now discredited; his plane made an emerg. landing & he was brought sick into Omsk hospital which under pressure didn't say he got poisoned; Putin didn't have a choice but to let him go to Germany to stay clean from attempted murder accusations. Then he was in rehab; the court pretends it didn't know his whereabouts, while Putin himself did. Indeed, this "independent court", whose judge had to be replaced before hearing this artificial politically motivated Navalny's case, must be included in the Guiness Record Book.

-he does, & tries to cover his ass to look 100% clean.

His ass is likely the cleanest of any who has previously held his position...-not even "likely" anymore, & it'll get dirtier with each week.

- u have a very idealistic view of the RF realities. keep ur rosy glasses on, but stop lecturing me.

But you don't even understand the basics of a suspended sentence... and the ramifications of violating your parole conditions... pretty standard around the world... but you seem to think they don't apply.- I do understand them, but they r being imposed by pocket judges, & vigorously prosecuted on orders from above, in violation of all procedural norms, they have no legal standing.

-w/o the local opposition, they won't make any difference.

And they didn't.- wait, its only the start. The Russians will resist injustice, & I feel it in my own bones.

Navalny is a lot smarter than Putin & his kill teams; the elites will soon make their own pivot towards him before turning their backs on a fresh political corpse.

You mean in 3 years when he is out of prison?-maybe even before that. N. Mandela spent 27 years in prison but become SA president. Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Valeca, Havel, NEHRU, BACHELET, &Moon_Jae-in also were imprisoned/exiled but still made it to the top.

.- either way, the writing is on the wall; he has many enemies all over the Globe & good luck to him with his judo skills.

- wrong, the German colonists in Russia all got Russified & many of their descendants who left the USSR came back. the Germans have no stomach to swallow Russia.

Stolypin was a monarchist... if he had lived and stopped Lenin then in WWII the Germans might have made an alliance with Tsarist Russia and crushed the British and the French and the US would have stayed out of it. -even if so, the Russians who r not Ethnic Germans wouldn't be speaking German at home. Even Yiddish (a German dialect of E. European Jews) is a dying language.

-Nemtsov was a big threat to his throne & had to be eliminated, regardless of consequences.

He was already practically forgotten when he was shot. A brutal public execution makes no sense for Putin...-Kadyrov could also use it to show that he can do anything even on Putin's doorstep. It's mafia's internal squabbles, or Putin knew that he could claim "I didn't know anything" & blame it on him. His FSB was watching his every move 24/7.

- PR!

But Putin does it.-to let off steam of discontent, with very little substance. A leader shouldn't be involved in cleaning up a mess created by technocrats & corrupt/disrespectful officials in far off regions. Chinese Emperors had more efficient reporting by runners from the provinces by 6 in the morning every day. In the Taoist view, the best ruler is the 1 whose name isn't even known to the people he rules.

In the old days, folks would go to the capital to present their grievances in person. talk is cheap, esp. when the lower officials ignore his decrees; if the system was efficient, there would be no need for that kind of troubleshooting. r u calling it normal?

I am calling it open and transparent... the only other leader who did anything like that is Trump on Twitter, but I never looked at that so I can't say whether he just spoke or if he answered questions and talked to people.- he was just posting his rants & boasts, not answering to any1. it was all about him & his self-righteous.

- like the kind & benevolent Tsar that "didn't know" what his boyars were doing to the people. I remember the same thing when Andropov policies failed & were scaled back/stopped, many blamed the local party bosses, not him.

He does not have to do this... he could remain locked up in his ivory tower like all previous Russian leaders have, and all western leaders do too.-Putin has bunkers & tunnels to hide/escape; "when the going gets tough, the tough get going". But in the end, he may be caught as a rat in a sewer like Khaddaffi was.

- if u think that Navalny doesn't know all that, it's ur other deep mistake.

Which makes him an opportunist traitor.- no, he would stand up for Russia's interests, & he won't give Crimea back, "as a half eaten sandwich."
Being a convicted criminal he would not be allowed entry to New Zealand or Australia...- I doubt Putin would be welcome there even now, as long as Navalny isn't free.

-I can say u r giving more credit to Putin than he deserves!

The place Russia is in today is because of him and his choices and decisions.-Nemtsov's investigations showed that it's not his sole achievement, but even if true, he's not indispensable, esp. after usurping power for so long. Again, the best ruler is the 1 whose name isn't even known/easily recalled to the people he rules.

-why not staying as an independent candidate? a party may still form around him or his successor.

Because as an independent candidate he can only be voted into one seat and you can't be president with one seat.-did Yeltsin have a party that made him a president?

-if was brain dead, he wouldn't be in power.

He is not in power... he is in prison.-that fact will empower the opposition more.

-& Putin got burned on it; hence the need for new constitution with old presidential terms annuled.

Even if Luka said that was a brilliant idea lets join countries such things can't happen in a few weeks or months... that sort of shit would take years to iron out...-by then, it was in the works for years; if it was ratified & legalized, on the bottom things could be as before. Crimea isn't much smaller than Belarus.

-wrong: they wanted to save Ms of german lives by making peace with UK & US to better negotiate with, & defend against the USSR.

And they were assuming that after they killed Hitler that Hitler supporters wouldn't just kill them and ruin their attempts to surrender to the western allies.- by then, there was a lot of rumbling in the army as it was clear that the war was being lost.
Moot point anyway, they couldn't even kill adolph- it was a lost chance, with oak table saving him, but they almost succeded.

the association is Putin=Hitler & Kaput in German is "finished, worn out, dead". A Russian in Vladivostok was holding it. These attitudes r not new there.

Obviously a Russian patriot in sync with the feelings of the Russian people... equating an Austrian who essentially murdered 30 million soviet citizens with a Russian who led Russia from economic collapse and poverty,...- to make $, 1 must have $. Russia got better off to an extent, enriching Putin & his circle, at the expense of ordinary citizens. As the Comanche chief said: don't tell us to give up buffalo for sheep!

-for it to really work, Putin must go!

But it is already working.-wait till nationwide strikes r called.

- if given a chance, he would kill Ms to stay in power.

So you say...-I know it better than u.

- I never implied that. Oh, I forgot, u r from down under & can't be blamed for having different logical in/abilities!

So why mention the USSR imploding and killing people if it has nothing at all to do with Putin?- he was the part of that system & himself blamed Lenin for creating republics, "a time bomb under Russia", while in the same breath lamenting the USSR implosion as the biggest catastrophe of the XX century. Some countries have back to back tragedies w/o any breaks in between, & I'm glad I'm not there!

-Putin's rule will add more stagnation & degradation.

But the economic situation is no worse than in the EU so he is doing as well as civilised and educated Europe is...-the EU protesters can deal with its riot police; the Russians will deal with Putin's praetorians until they replace him, like what happened in Pax Romana.

- the US $ has an amazing ability to recover, unlike other currencies. if there's a political will, there is a way. there r professional stimulators of the economy here that earn their keep.

You mean America is going to invade someone...-there rn't worthy places left to invade w/o loosing politically, so not anytime soon, u can sleep well!

- no, it's up to them what to do, I'm just presenting my take & commenting on the situation.

But no one else can give their opinion?- where did I try to shut any1 up?

.-no, Trump would make it a Nazi state. As I said, I'm not going to discuss internal US issues here.

He got elected because it is a Nazi state...-if it was, we wouldn't have any elections.

-only so far, recall those in Belarus!

None so far compared with hundreds in Spain and France and the US... but only Putin needs to go?- it will get worse before it gets better; if the Russians decide so & succeed in kicking him out, yes.
Sounds like you just want Putin to go and you are grasping at straws.-Ms of Russians want him to go; it's him now grasping at straws, as he can only rely on his media, security services, courts & police. Until last week, downtown Moscow subway stations weren't closed since 1941 with Germans only 20 km away.

46 trillion rubles, or 609 billion dollars - this is exactly how much Putin's geopolitical failures cost the Russians, which brought nothing but the illusion of opposition to the West for Russia itself.

Without reading that bullshit I suspect this figure is a roundup of all the western sanctions imposed on Russia over Putins decisions taken in the interests of the Russian people.-no, there r many other categories listed 1 by 1.

America can afford more costly mistakes & wasteful spending than Russia.

As more and more get off the US dollar will lose value and countries might even stop accepting it... then where will America be?- I know where Russia is with her Ruble, at 1 RUB = 0.01322 USD.

She can also afford to print a lot more $ than Russia.

Actually she can't because that is her problem not her solution... continuing to just print money will lead to some countries and companies to wonder if it is worth anything... what is backing it up?- new domestic & foreign policies to fix what Trump has done.

Lastly, she recently evicted a moronic woud-be dictator from the White House & the new immigrants will be admitted to help "make her great again" for sure.

Yeah, rich people not having cheap illegal labour they can underpay because they are illegal is what was stopping America being great again...-wrong: there'll be be more legal immigration & naturalization of those here, damn the local racists & bigots with their statues of Columbus & slave owners; they will renew & remake the USA to be better for all.

The Levada Centre, an independent pollster labelled as a foreign agent by Russia’s Ministry of Justice for its receipt of funding from overseas, conducted the research. In another survey late last year, the same group also found that only one in five Russians said they “approve” of the anti-corruption campaigner’s actions across all of activism and journalism. A full 50 percent said they disapproved, and 18 percent claimed they’d never even heard of him.

Ahhh that is gold... the Levada Centre that is funded by foreign countries and in a poll 18 percent of Russians had never heard of Navalny....-wait till the next poll; only a toddlers & retards don't know who he is now.

Better compare how many people emigrated to the US vs. to the RF

The people going to America are economic migrants mainly coming from third world poor countries to the south of the US....-not true: most recent immigrants since 2000 came from Asia.

The obvious countries involved. Switzerland being the more surprising one.

- they r within their rights to show concern & support.  

..Navalny and his rent-a-crowds.

$ were paid to several teenagers bloggers to post anti-Navalny & anti-protests videos. 1 refused & posted a written script offered to read from. After it was noticed that they all sounded almost the same, it was changed.
Folks have nothing to lose except their fear & will come out for free. Building prisons & camps to house them all will bankrupt Russia- even Iran didn't have enough oil $ & allies to prevent Khomeini from unseating the pompous but worthless Shah.
Police at rallies

miketheterrible wrote:....Tsavo and Vann fight for biggest retard of Russia defence forums title.

They not only have zero idea about economics, they don't even know Russian history nor geopolitics.

But they sure are quick to post nonsense, drivel and overall their stupidity.

Easily debunked too.

Nomad5891 wrote:....It is beyond my comprehension why Russia didn´t just revoke Navalny´s passport and forbid him from enetering the country from the start.
He would have been forgoten by now. Now, they just dont have a useful move.

...As per this Navalny (known in Russia as Analny and Sissyan, he DOES have tits) fellow, who is at the center of new West's Russo-phobic hysteria, today this jerk will be delivered to the court again to listen to another--more are coming--indictment on slandering the veteran of Great Patriotic War. And then, some time later, he will also be charged with being an intelligence asset of foreign state and that, folks, is a treason issue. So, all in all, he will spend a rather hefty time behind bars, which will allow him to learn a real trade, such as sowing, and, finally, will consummate his handle of Analny within penitentiary environment. ...

Tsavo is simple to figure out: He is 404 fanboy who likes to play dumb and post stuff about how the Ukraine is low key awesome and irreplaceable
He also loves to shill for China because he subscribes to age old ''wisdom'' about how China will invade Russia for reasons (last mental refuge of ass-whooped East Euros) and thinks that folks here will start shitting their pants over Chincom ''power''