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    sepheronx

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    Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:57 am

    http://rt.com/politics/251949-russia-kasyanov-opposition-citizenship/

    didnt know where to put this, but another 5th coloumnist may get what is coming to him. A bill from opposition parties are pushing to strip citizenship for people such as Kasyanov for their blatant work for another country.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:00 pm

    sepheronx wrote:http://rt.com/politics/251949-russia-kasyanov-opposition-citizenship/

    didnt know where to put this, but another 5th coloumnist may get what is coming to him. A bill from opposition parties are pushing to strip citizenship for people such as Kasyanov for their blatant work for another country.

    Kasparov, Navalny, Kasyanov, Ponomarev, Kudrin are subversion specialists and should have their assets frozen and seized!
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    TR1

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  TR1 on Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:06 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:http://rt.com/politics/251949-russia-kasyanov-opposition-citizenship/

    didnt know where to put this, but another 5th coloumnist may get what is coming to him. A bill from opposition parties are pushing to strip citizenship for people such as Kasyanov for their blatant work for another country.

    Kasparov, Navalny, Kasyanov, Ponomarev, Kudrin are subversion specialists and should have their assets frozen and seized!
    YEah!

    And their families should be arrested and "relocated" just to make sure they don't spread their ideological subversion!

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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:11 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:http://rt.com/politics/251949-russia-kasyanov-opposition-citizenship/

    didnt know where to put this, but another 5th coloumnist may get what is coming to him. A bill from opposition parties are pushing to strip citizenship for people such as Kasyanov for their blatant work for another country.

    Kasparov, Navalny, Kasyanov, Ponomarev, Kudrin are subversion specialists and should have their assets frozen and seized!
    YEah!

    And their families should be arrested and "relocated" just to make sure they don't spread their ideological subversion!


    I don't know about you, but since you are in US, you would not be able to go to Russia (especially if you were a US politician) and asked Russian or Chinese politicians to have them sanction your fellow countrymen, and then expect to keep your job.
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    TR1

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  TR1 on Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:16 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:http://rt.com/politics/251949-russia-kasyanov-opposition-citizenship/

    didnt know where to put this, but another 5th coloumnist may get what is coming to him. A bill from opposition parties are pushing to strip citizenship for people such as Kasyanov for their blatant work for another country.

    Kasparov, Navalny, Kasyanov, Ponomarev, Kudrin are subversion specialists and should have their assets frozen and seized!
    YEah!

    And their families should be arrested and "relocated" just to make sure they don't spread their ideological subversion!


    I don't know about you, but since you are in US, you would not be able to go to Russia (especially if you were a US politician) and asked Russian or Chinese politicians to have them sanction your fellow countrymen, and then expect to keep your job.

    Which currently elected or appointed Russian politicians are going abroad and asking for sanctions?

    There is no rule that says a random party member can't go abroad and criticize the government. This is not the USSR.

    And yes, as a US citizen, I could go to Russia, say that US Imperialism needs to be stopped or something similar, and I would not lose my citizenship on coming back.
    Just like in any sane country.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:20 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:http://rt.com/politics/251949-russia-kasyanov-opposition-citizenship/

    didnt know where to put this, but another 5th coloumnist may get what is coming to him. A bill from opposition parties are pushing to strip citizenship for people such as Kasyanov for their blatant work for another country.

    Kasparov, Navalny, Kasyanov, Ponomarev, Kudrin are subversion specialists and should have their assets frozen and seized!
    YEah!

    And their families should be arrested and "relocated" just to make sure they don't spread their ideological subversion!


    I don't know about you, but since you are in US, you would not be able to go to Russia (especially if you were a US politician) and asked Russian or Chinese politicians to have them sanction your fellow countrymen, and then expect to keep your job.

    Which currently elected or appointed Russian politicians are going abroad and asking for sanctions?

    There is no rule that says a random party member can't go abroad and criticize the government. This is not the USSR.

    And yes, as a US citizen, I could go to Russia, say that US Imperialism needs to be stopped or something similar, and I would not lose my citizenship on coming back.
    Just like in any sane country.

    In the link I provided, states the head of an opposition party is going to USA to ask congress to put sanctions on various Russians (journalists included).  No, I doubt if you were a party official, you could do that, or at least do that and keep your job.  Current party in Russia is saying that he should lose his position/job or at least be told he cannot run as a party official.  It is Fair Russia party saying he should be stripped of his citizenship.

    Edit: Maybe not head of a party but major party member. Add to that, going and saying how bad USA is, is one thing. Asking for sanctions against your own people is a different matter.
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    TR1

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  TR1 on Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:27 pm

    People can vote to oust you from the party. This is not a active member of government.

    The state taking away citizenship is insane, .....do I really need to spell it out? Where do you think that precedent can lead to/

    Sure, my party might lose support if I did so, or I might be pushed out of party leadership.
    But taking away citizenship, nah. Doesn't work like that.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:32 pm

    TR1 wrote:People can vote to oust you from the party. This is not a active member of government.

    The state taking away citizenship is insane, .....do I really need to spell it out? Where do you think that precedent can lead to/

    Sure, my party might lose support if I did so, or I might be pushed out of party leadership.
    But taking away citizenship, nah. Doesn't work like that.

    That is were the three parties dont agree on. Communists say they should be labeled, Fair Russia says they should be exiled an current party says they should not be allowed to participate. It will be interesting on what gets passed.
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    TR1

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  TR1 on Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:42 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    TR1 wrote:People can vote to oust you from the party. This is not a active member of government.

    The state taking away citizenship is insane, .....do I really need to spell it out? Where do you think that precedent can lead to/

    Sure, my party might lose support if I did so, or I might be pushed out of party leadership.
    But taking away citizenship, nah. Doesn't work like that.

    That is were the three parties dont agree on.  Communists say they should be labeled, Fair Russia says they should be exiled an current party says they should not be allowed to participate. It will be interesting on what gets passed.

    Duma is a joke in any case.

    Calling our Deputats worthless would be a compliment.
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:57 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    TR1 wrote:People can vote to oust you from the party. This is not a active member of government.

    The state taking away citizenship is insane, .....do I really need to spell it out? Where do you think that precedent can lead to/

    Sure, my party might lose support if I did so, or I might be pushed out of party leadership.
    But taking away citizenship, nah. Doesn't work like that.

    That is were the three parties dont agree on.  Communists say they should be labeled, Fair Russia says they should be exiled an current party says they should not be allowed to participate. It will be interesting on what gets passed.

    Duma is a joke in any case.

    Calling our Deputats worthless would be a compliment.

    Rubber-stamp commitee.

    They keep looking for a way to make themselves useful, but fail miserably.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:06 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:http://rt.com/politics/251949-russia-kasyanov-opposition-citizenship/

    didnt know where to put this, but another 5th coloumnist may get what is coming to him. A bill from opposition parties are pushing to strip citizenship for people such as Kasyanov for their blatant work for another country.

    Kasparov, Navalny, Kasyanov, Ponomarev, Kudrin are subversion specialists and should have their assets frozen and seized!
    YEah!

    And their families should be arrested and "relocated" just to make sure they don't spread their ideological subversion!


    I don't know about you, but since you are in US, you would not be able to go to Russia (especially if you were a US politician) and asked Russian or Chinese politicians to have them sanction your fellow countrymen, and then expect to keep your job.

    Which currently elected or appointed Russian politicians are going abroad and asking for sanctions?

    There is no rule that says a random party member can't go abroad and criticize the government. This is not the USSR.

    And yes, as a US citizen, I could go to Russia, say that US Imperialism needs to be stopped or something similar, and I would not lose my citizenship on coming back.
    Just like in any sane country.

    Excuse me? Critizing?

    There is no critics, going to a foreign ENEMY country and suggesting to take actions against russian citizens is treason. You somehow not educated what Critics is or do you really pretend that this is critics?

    Sane country, you are surely not living in one.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:36 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:http://rt.com/politics/251949-russia-kasyanov-opposition-citizenship/

    didnt know where to put this, but another 5th coloumnist may get what is coming to him. A bill from opposition parties are pushing to strip citizenship for people such as Kasyanov for their blatant work for another country.

    Kasparov, Navalny, Kasyanov, Ponomarev, Kudrin are subversion specialists and should have their assets frozen and seized!
    YEah!

    And their families should be arrested and "relocated" just to make sure they don't spread their ideological subversion!


    People have their assets seized all time over countless offenses including tax evasion and it's quite common in most places around the world, but of course that never dawned on your kindergarten level of reasoning...Go on go cry to GarryB or some other moderator when you get your vagina shoved full of sand. Razz
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    TR1

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  TR1 on Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:44 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:http://rt.com/politics/251949-russia-kasyanov-opposition-citizenship/

    didnt know where to put this, but another 5th coloumnist may get what is coming to him. A bill from opposition parties are pushing to strip citizenship for people such as Kasyanov for their blatant work for another country.

    Kasparov, Navalny, Kasyanov, Ponomarev, Kudrin are subversion specialists and should have their assets frozen and seized!
    YEah!

    And their families should be arrested and "relocated" just to make sure they don't spread their ideological subversion!


    People have their assets seized all time over countless offenses including tax evasion and it's quite common in most places around the world, but of course that never dawned on your kindergarten level of reasoning...Go on go cry to GarryB or some other moderator when you get your vagina shoved full of sand. Razz

    Aww, someone is upset they were banned for being a child like always Very Happy .

    Tax evasion is a crime. Criticizing the government is a crime too now? Wow.

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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:28 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:http://rt.com/politics/251949-russia-kasyanov-opposition-citizenship/

    didnt know where to put this, but another 5th coloumnist may get what is coming to him. A bill from opposition parties are pushing to strip citizenship for people such as Kasyanov for their blatant work for another country.

    Kasparov, Navalny, Kasyanov, Ponomarev, Kudrin are subversion specialists and should have their assets frozen and seized!
    YEah!

    And their families should be arrested and "relocated" just to make sure they don't spread their ideological subversion!


    People have their assets seized all time over countless offenses including tax evasion and it's quite common in most places around the world, but of course that never dawned on your kindergarten level of reasoning...Go on go cry to GarryB or some other moderator when you get your vagina shoved full of sand. Razz

    Aww, someone is upset they were banned for being a child like always Very Happy .

    Tax evasion is a crime. Criticizing the government is a crime too now? Wow.


    Criticizing the government and seeking your fellow countrymen and journalists to be sanctioned, is something else. Not the same thing.
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    TR1

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  TR1 on Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:36 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:http://rt.com/politics/251949-russia-kasyanov-opposition-citizenship/

    didnt know where to put this, but another 5th coloumnist may get what is coming to him. A bill from opposition parties are pushing to strip citizenship for people such as Kasyanov for their blatant work for another country.

    Kasparov, Navalny, Kasyanov, Ponomarev, Kudrin are subversion specialists and should have their assets frozen and seized!
    YEah!

    And their families should be arrested and "relocated" just to make sure they don't spread their ideological subversion!


    People have their assets seized all time over countless offenses including tax evasion and it's quite common in most places around the world, but of course that never dawned on your kindergarten level of reasoning...Go on go cry to GarryB or some other moderator when you get your vagina shoved full of sand. Razz

    Aww, someone is upset they were banned for being a child like always Very Happy .

    Tax evasion is a crime. Criticizing the government is a crime too now? Wow.


    Criticizing the government and seeking your fellow countrymen and journalists to be sanctioned, is something else.  Not the same thing.

    Ok, so all those Americans screaming "impeach Bush!" and "try Bush at the Hague!" back in the day were traitors.
    They deserve to have their accounts frozen, and kicked out of the country, so they can go and hate on the government elsewhere.

    I've said before you guys sound like proper NKVD boots, and I'll say it again.

    I am very glad all those Russian government thieves got sanctioned. Positively giddy about it actually.


    Last edited by TR1 on Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:40 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:http://rt.com/politics/251949-russia-kasyanov-opposition-citizenship/

    didnt know where to put this, but another 5th coloumnist may get what is coming to him. A bill from opposition parties are pushing to strip citizenship for people such as Kasyanov for their blatant work for another country.

    Kasparov, Navalny, Kasyanov, Ponomarev, Kudrin are subversion specialists and should have their assets frozen and seized!
    YEah!

    And their families should be arrested and "relocated" just to make sure they don't spread their ideological subversion!


    People have their assets seized all time over countless offenses including tax evasion and it's quite common in most places around the world, but of course that never dawned on your kindergarten level of reasoning...Go on go cry to GarryB or some other moderator when you get your vagina shoved full of sand. Razz

    Aww, someone is upset they were banned for being a child like always Very Happy .

    Tax evasion is a crime. Criticizing the government is a crime too now? Wow.


    Criticizing the government and seeking your fellow countrymen and journalists to be sanctioned, is something else.  Not the same thing.

    Ok, so all those Americans screaming "impeach Bush!" and "try Bush at the Hague!" back in the day were traitors.
    They deserve to have their accounts frozen, and kicked out of the country, so they can go and hate on the government elsewhere.

    I've said before you guys sound like proper NKVD boots, and I'll say it again.

    I am very glad all those Russian government thieves got sanctioned. Positively giddy about it actually.
    That breaks no Russian laws.

    If a politician from USA went to China and or Russia to ask them to have so and so sanctioned (someone in USA), I think he should lose his job.  He can be a critic, but once again, there is a clear difference between criticizing a government and targeting individuals, whom some are not even government.  Did I say he should be killed or kicked out of the country?  I said he should lose his job.  Don't put words in my mouth.

    I don't know why you are giddy about how the USA is treating your former homeland and its people, and blatantly allowing the horrors to happen in Ukraine while blaming Russia entirely.  I think there is something wrong with you.  They are blatantly attacking your nation through sanctions and trying to bring your former country down.  How is that right?  How do you seem to like that?  Just because you hate Putin doesn't mean that the nation deserves to be sanctioned for something the US couldn't even provide evidence for, regardless what rhetorics were used.

    You are really good at complaining and throwing insults and labeling people, then complain when someone calls you out on it. Maybe you should rethink that.
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    TR1

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  TR1 on Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:48 pm

    I don't think you read a single word I wrote.

    Do you even understand the difference between say a member of Duma and a regional party leader?

    As for sanctions, play big boy games, earn big boy consequences.

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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:51 pm

    TR1 wrote:I don't think you read a single word I wrote.

    Do you even understand the difference between say a member of Duma and a regional party leader?


    Does it matter?  He is supposed to be a representative, be it regional or federal.  That does not make his stance any better or right.  He being a representative of Russian people in a region, and is calling for sanctions on Russian people, even a JOURNALIST (had to use bold and capital so you can also understand) is far FAR from the right thing.  If he wants to be a critic, fine.  If he wants to shout out about it, fine.  If he wants to provide evidence to his claims, great! but running over to uncle sam in USA and asking for individuals (politicians and journalists and civies) to be sanctioned is NOT fine, not in any country I know of. In USA, just for telling the truth and providing evidence of US spying on people (just spying), they treat Snowden as a Traiter: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/10/21/edward-snowden-murder-mike-rogers-isis-_n_6024600.html. Guess in the land of free, it isn't so free, now is it?

    TR1 wrote:
    As for sanctions, play big boy games, earn big boy consequences.


    Yes, same thing goes for being a sell out loser seeking assistance to damage people within your own country and then being threatened and or possibly losing job or being kicked out of country.  Play stupid, win stupid prizes.
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    TR1

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  TR1 on Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:57 pm

    Then the Russian people can vote him out of office.
    Or, if he is an unelected or appointed party member, they can cry about it and at best hope the rest of the party kicks him out. Thats it. A private citizen can recommend what the hell he wants publicly.

    If Kasparov wants to go abroad and ask for sanctions, that is his deal. His assets are his, not for the Russian government thieves to freeze.

    Russia caring about its journalists is particularly funny though. Foreign sanctions shouldn't be your biggest concern when it comes to Russian journalism lmao.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:59 pm

    TR1 wrote:Then the Russian people can vote him out of office.
    Or, if he is an unelected or appointed party member, they can cry about it and at best hope the rest of the party kicks him out. Thats it. A private citizen can recommend what the hell he wants publicly.

    If Kasparov wants to go abroad and ask for sanctions, that is his deal. His assets are his, not for the Russian government thieves to freeze.

    Russia caring about its journalists is particularly funny though. Foreign sanctions shouldn't be your biggest concern when it comes to Russian journalism lmao.

    Russian Journalists biggest fear right now is either Chechens or Ukrainians it seems.

    But he should be fired, plain and simple. You can try to coat it however way you want, does not mean jack.
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    TR1

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  TR1 on Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:01 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Then the Russian people can vote him out of office.
    Or, if he is an unelected or appointed party member, they can cry about it and at best hope the rest of the party kicks him out. Thats it. A private citizen can recommend what the hell he wants publicly.

    If Kasparov wants to go abroad and ask for sanctions, that is his deal. His assets are his, not for the Russian government thieves to freeze.

    Russia caring about its journalists is particularly funny though. Foreign sanctions shouldn't be your biggest concern when it comes to Russian journalism lmao.

    Russian Journalists biggest fear right now is either Chechens or Ukrainians it seems.

    But he should be fired, plain and simple.  You can try to coat it however way you want, does not mean jack.

    Fired from what?

    Who employs him?
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:12 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Then the Russian people can vote him out of office.
    Or, if he is an unelected or appointed party member, they can cry about it and at best hope the rest of the party kicks him out. Thats it. A private citizen can recommend what the hell he wants publicly.

    If Kasparov wants to go abroad and ask for sanctions, that is his deal. His assets are his, not for the Russian government thieves to freeze.

    Russia caring about its journalists is particularly funny though. Foreign sanctions shouldn't be your biggest concern when it comes to Russian journalism lmao.

    Russian Journalists biggest fear right now is either Chechens or Ukrainians it seems.

    But he should be fired, plain and simple.  You can try to coat it however way you want, does not mean jack.

    Fired from what?

    Who employs him?

    His party. And barred from participating in elections. That is MY opinion.
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    Regular

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  Regular on Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:18 pm

    So Ukrainian version of Nemtsov was killed. It's bad year for Nemtsovs through whole Eastern Europe.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:21 am

    YEah!

    And their families should be arrested and "relocated" just to make sure they don't spread their ideological subversion!

    The US has a long history of economic sanctions against foreign nationals who act against Americas interests... up to and including murder and attempts at murder... how many CIA attempts were there to kill Castro?

    In comparison the disassociation and freezing of assets of a domestic national is rather moderate action in comparison... or do rich traitors who continue to gain in wealth deserve their ill gotten gains?

    And yes, as a US citizen, I could go to Russia, say that US Imperialism needs to be stopped or something similar, and I would not lose my citizenship on coming back.
    Just like in any sane country.

    That is funny, because if you go to the Middle East and join ISIS and try to go back to the US you will be arrested most likely and almost certainly lose your US citizenship.

    And US politicians have already said Russia is a greater world threat than ISIS or Ebola.

    Rubber-stamp commitee.

    They keep looking for a way to make themselves useful, but fail miserably.

    So Duma, Congress, Parliment... call it what you like... it is pretty much the same everywhere.

    Tax evasion is a crime. Criticizing the government is a crime too now? Wow.

    Actively trying to get an enemy state to act against your own country is a crime too. Ask the Americans... they can arrest Russians in Africa and kidnap them from Thailand, refer to them as a lord of war and put them in US prison for crimes against US INTERESTS... why shouldn't Russia be allowed to do the same?

    As for sanctions, play big boy games, earn big boy consequences.

    So isn't that contradicting what you have been saying on this thread?

    A russian politician goes to the US to ask for sanctions against his rivals... he is playing big boy games... if he tries to return home... hang him and his family and the families pets... big boy consequences...

    If it is OK to sanction Russia without any evidence and in fact with open media evidence that the west is actually doing what it is accusing Russia of doing... then clearly there are no rules.

    If Kasparov wants to go abroad and ask for sanctions, that is his deal. His assets are his, not for the Russian government thieves to freeze.

    Doesn't that apply to everyone? What about all the assets frozen in the US by US imposed sanctions? Surely their assets are theirs and not for the Washington government thieves to steal?

    I agree with Werewolf here... you can't go to an enemy state and suggest they take any sort of action against fellow citizens and expect that to be ignored and to go unpunished.
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    dino00

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    Location : portugal

    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  dino00 on Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:24 am

    The Russian people, and his own party should have the last word, not the government or other partys.
    Freedom of speech is that.
    It would be dangerous if any law  in that way pass.

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

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