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    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

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    Zivo

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Zivo on Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:29 am

    KiloGolf wrote:ahrar al derka derka claims to have shelled Hmeimim air base...
    I wonder if it's true..


    Reports are from several hours ago, I haven't hear news of any hits.

    The airbase is covered with dirt berms and concrete barriers, artillery wont do much even if they manage to hit the field.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  KiloGolf on Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:30 am

    Zivo wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:ahrar al derka derka claims to have shelled Hmeimim air base...
    I wonder if it's true..


    Reports are from several hours ago, I haven't hear news of any hits.


    Ι doubt they could even reach the base with such a cannon and given the insurgent positions in Latakia.
    Could they? Is that a 130mm cannon? I'm quite weak on arty tech
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  KiloGolf on Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:33 am



    Laughing
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    Kadmos45

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Kadmos45 on Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:35 am

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:

    And if Russia is allegedly fighting against the "Islamic State" then why was it attacking with these jets the ethnic Turkomans who actually fight against the "Islamic State" on the ground?

    Infantryman < navigator, cruel but that is how military looks at it. When its about helicopter, its just a helicopter, US lost 8 last 2 months in regular flights out of combat zones.

    Coz they also fight aganist regular Syrian Army? Maybe...


    The naval infantry in Russia are considered as elite troops, perhaps not totally as elite as GRU Spietsnaz but still elite.

    If Russia is only there to fight the "Islamic State" then that is what it should do, but no fight against others who are fighting against the IS.

    There are now some allegations being made in the Western mass media that it is only the Western air forces that really fight agains the IS, while the Russians attack only the Free Syrian Army and its ethnic Turkoman allies.

    It is Russia that looks dishonest here.

    Are you for real ? USSR under Gorbachov always listened to western MSM and we all know how it ended.
    If you care about their lies and you try doing anything to please them , then you have already lost.
    They're just western weapons, they were,are and always be used against Russia., geeze.

    And those Turkomans are just Turkey terrorists who NEVER fight against ISIS , maybe you confused them with Kurds - totally different minority in Syria.

    And Russia actually said that will strike IS and "other terrorist groups" which she did.

    Regarding Poland i can assure you that virtually nobody watches RT here .
    So why should they even bother ? And RT was created specifically for an american/anglosaxon consumer audience not polish, czech, romanian,albanian,macedonian,slovakian etc.
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    Odin of Ossetia

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Odin of Ossetia on Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:36 am

    KiloGolf wrote:

    Laughing

    In Chechnya's case with tributary payments.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:45 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Zivo wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:ahrar al derka derka claims to have shelled Hmeimim air base...
    I wonder if it's true..


    Reports are from several hours ago, I haven't hear news of any hits.


    Ι doubt they could even reach the base with such a cannon and given the insurgent positions in Latakia.
    Could they? Is that a 130mm cannon? I'm quite weak on arty tech
    Helpful English lesson. It is a gun in general language, never a cannon and it fires shells not loaded from the front. A cannon is a type of gun that fires balls or grapeshot and is muzzle loaded.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Militarov on Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:49 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Zivo wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:ahrar al derka derka claims to have shelled Hmeimim air base...
    I wonder if it's true..


    Reports are from several hours ago, I haven't hear news of any hits.


    Ι doubt they could even reach the base with such a cannon and given the insurgent positions in Latakia.
    Could they? Is that a 130mm cannon? I'm quite weak on arty tech

    Yes M46 field gun 130mm. Around 28km would be range with the most common OF43 shells, HE-FRAG. There is assisted ammunition for it but its not very widespread.
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    Zivo

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Zivo on Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:02 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Zivo wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:ahrar al derka derka claims to have shelled Hmeimim air base...
    I wonder if it's true..


    Reports are from several hours ago, I haven't hear news of any hits.


    Ι doubt they could even reach the base with such a cannon and given the insurgent positions in Latakia.
    Could they? Is that a 130mm cannon? I'm quite weak on arty tech

    I did some quick measurements, the closest rebel position I can find, just SW of Salma, is 33km away. About 5km beyond the max range of 130mm guns. With rocket assisted round it could reach, but the ordinance in the video appears to be a standard load.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:04 am

    Turkey pulling back its rhetoric, if it is believable.

    http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151127/1030833059/turkey-russia-cooperation.html
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  KiloGolf on Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:11 am

    JohninMK wrote:Helpful English lesson. It is a gun in general language, never a cannon and it fires shells not loaded from the front. A cannon is a type of gun that fires balls or grapeshot and is muzzle loaded.

    No need, I used a quick word from my language (wrong in english).

    Not cannon sure, gun is too general but OK.
    Howitzer is better.

    welcome


    Last edited by KiloGolf on Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Zivo

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Zivo on Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:15 am

    JohninMK wrote:Turkey pulling back its rhetoric, if it is believable.

    http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151127/1030833059/turkey-russia-cooperation.html

    Cowardly response, following their cowardly attack. Damn those S-400's work good, you don't even have to fire a shot to get your enemy to back down.
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  flamming_python on Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:27 am

    Zivo wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:Turkey pulling back its rhetoric, if it is believable.

    http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151127/1030833059/turkey-russia-cooperation.html

    Cowardly response, following their cowardly attack. Damn those S-400's work good, you don't even have to fire a shot to get your enemy to back down.

    Job is not done yet and there is everything to play for

    Russia should eradicate Turkey's proxy Islamists in Lakatia, and help the SAA re-establish full control.

    If there are some secular Turkmens or whoever else who just don't trust Assad - fine, let them contact the Russian leadership like the Kurds and some other minor opposition groups did; in order to co-ordinate joint actions against the Islamists. And a ceasefire could probably be brokered between them and the SAA too.

    But I don't think that's the case; 'Turkmen' is just what the Turkish government uses to justify their full-on funding of head-cutters and terrorists in Western Syria.

    Anyway, Russia should cleanse the area, be careful to avoid Turkish airspace although if there is another altercation; because of some self-declared 'no-fly zone', then gloves off chaps. The S-300F, S-400 and Su-30 escorts should significantly tip the odds into the Russian favour.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  KiloGolf on Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:30 am

    flamming_python wrote:The S-300F, S-400 and Su-30 escorts should significantly tip the odds into the Russian favour.

    Is the Kuznetsov carrier armed with offensive missiles still? I remember it used to have a VLS but that also that a recent refit may have removed it.
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    Kadmos45

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Kadmos45 on Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:31 am

    flamming_python wrote:

    Anyway, Russia should cleanse the area, be careful to avoid Turkish airspace although if there is another altercation; because of some self-declared 'no-fly zone', then gloves off chaps. The S-300F, S-400 and Su-30 escorts should significantly tip the odds into the Russian favour.

    There actually should be no-fly zone at least 50 miles ... inside turkish border.

    ult

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  ult on Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:32 am

    So, the Gorshkov has successfully launched the cruise missiles, which mean that it will complete the trials pretty soon, Kuznetsov is out of dock. There was no reason to have Su-33 in Syria before due to their limited air to ground capabilities, but now...

    Which means that Russia could put an actual carrier strike group - Kuznetsov, Petr Velikiy, Gorshkov, Grigorovich, Severodvinsk. Maybe someone else. That's quite the force. How likely do you think it is?

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Rodinazombie on Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:39 am

    JohninMK wrote:Turkey pulling back its rhetoric, if it is believable.

    http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151127/1030833059/turkey-russia-cooperation.html

    Backing down like this is just as cowardly as shooting down the plane in the first place.


    Though I think russia will tone down the military moves in the next few days, turkey has had its warning and understands clearly what will happen, and that may be enough to prevent an escalation but the economic and political pressure will only increase from russia.

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    max steel

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  max steel on Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:45 am

    Odin of Ossetia sorry for your poor knowledge but those Turkmen are not fighting against Syrian terrorists they are fighting alongside them against Syrian Army. They are a small minority, but there are different Turkmen clans fighting on all sides of the conflict - FSA, Nusra, SAA, ISIS, even w Kurds supposedly


    You still believe in West rhetoric that there are 3-4 separate factions in Syria but in reality they all are one against Syrian Army and its civilians.


    Here are your Turkmen going against their rhetoric . Claiming they didn't fire at pilot chuting down, but evidence say different story.

    https://www.facebook.com/inthenowrt/videos/547999868683720/?pnref=story


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    Odin of Ossetia

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Odin of Ossetia on Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:06 am

    max steel wrote:Odin of Ossetia sorry for your poor knowledge but those Turkmen are not fighting against Syrian terrorists they are fighting alongside them against Syrian Army. They are a small minority, but there are different Turkmen clans fighting on all sides of the conflict - FSA, Nusra, SAA, ISIS, even w Kurds supposedly


    You still believe in West rhetoric that there are 3-4 separate factions in Syria but in reality they all are one against Syrian Army and its civilians.


    Here are your Turkmen going against their rhetoric . Claiming they didn't fire at pilot chuting down, but evidence say different story.

    https://www.facebook.com/inthenowrt/videos/547999868683720/?pnref=story




    The Turkman Brigades are aligned with the moderate and anti-IS Free Syrian Army:


    http://en.etilaf.org/coalition-components/national-blocks/turkman-component-of-the-syrian-national-coalition.html


    http://en.etilaf.org/all-news/political-news/erdogan-we-support-the-fsa-who-fight-an-oppressive-regime.html
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    Akula971

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Akula971 on Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:14 am

    ult wrote:So, the Gorshkov has successfully launched the cruise missiles, which mean that it will complete the trials pretty soon, Kuznetsov is out of dock. There was no reason to have Su-33 in Syria before due to their limited air to ground capabilities, but now...

    Which means that Russia could put an actual carrier strike group - Kuznetsov, Petr Velikiy, Gorshkov, Grigorovich, Severodvinsk. Maybe someone else. That's quite the force. How likely do you think it is?

    russia russia russia
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Militarov on Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:22 am

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    max steel wrote:Odin of Ossetia sorry for your poor knowledge but those Turkmen are not fighting against Syrian terrorists they are fighting alongside them against Syrian Army. They are a small minority, but there are different Turkmen clans fighting on all sides of the conflict - FSA, Nusra, SAA, ISIS, even w Kurds supposedly


    You still believe in West rhetoric that there are 3-4 separate factions in Syria but in reality they all are one against Syrian Army and its civilians.


    Here are your Turkmen going against their rhetoric . Claiming they didn't fire at pilot chuting down, but evidence say different story.

    https://www.facebook.com/inthenowrt/videos/547999868683720/?pnref=story




    The Turkman Brigades are aligned with the moderate and anti-IS Free Syrian Army:


    http://en.etilaf.org/coalition-components/national-blocks/turkman-component-of-the-syrian-national-coalition.html


    http://en.etilaf.org/all-news/political-news/erdogan-we-support-the-fsa-who-fight-an-oppressive-regime.html

    Every time you people use word "moderate" one baby panda dies.
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    zg18

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  zg18 on Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:27 am

    View from MK Bhadrakummar

    http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2015/11/26/turkeys-terror-network-in-russian-crosshairs/

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    Acheron

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Acheron on Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:53 am

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    Zivo wrote:Shoigu confirmed, the second pilot is back at their base.  cheers

    “The [rescue] operation is successfully over. The pilot has been delivered to our base. Safe and sound,” Shoigu said during a meeting of the Defense Committee, adding that the operation was performed by Russian and Syrian special forces.

    https://www.rt.com/news/323377-russian-pilot-saved-syria/



    A Russian military helicopter was destroyed, and a Russian naval infantryman killed - according to the Russian government - all that to rescue a single airman, and they call it as successful?


    And if Russia is allegedly fighting against the "Islamic State" then why was it attacking with these jets the ethnic Turkomans who actually fight against the "Islamic State" on the ground?

    Infantryman < navigator, cruel but that is how military looks at it. When its about helicopter, its just a helicopter, US lost 8 last 2 months in regular flights out of combat zones.

    Coz they also fight aganist regular Syrian Army? Maybe...


    The naval infantry in Russia are considered as elite troops, perhaps not totally as elite as GRU Spietsnaz but still elite.

    If Russia is only there to fight the "Islamic State" then that is what it should do, but no fight against others who are fighting against the IS.

    There are now some allegations being made in the Western mass media that it is only the Western air forces that really fight agains the IS, while the Russians attack only the Free Syrian Army and its ethnic Turkoman allies.

    It is Russia that looks dishonest here.

    Don't buy into the propaganda. They think that if they repeat a line long enough, people will start believing it. Russia is fighting IS, JaN, Army of Islam, Army of Conquest, and the rest of those jihadi islamist groups. There are very few groups in Syria that appear to not be hardcore islamists. These are not under attack by Russia. The reason for all that whining in Western mass media is because some of NATOs (or their allies) valuable investments are getting express tickets to their promised virgins.



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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Militarov on Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:03 am

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    Zivo wrote:Shoigu confirmed, the second pilot is back at their base.  cheers

    “The [rescue] operation is successfully over. The pilot has been delivered to our base. Safe and sound,” Shoigu said during a meeting of the Defense Committee, adding that the operation was performed by Russian and Syrian special forces.

    https://www.rt.com/news/323377-russian-pilot-saved-syria/



    A Russian military helicopter was destroyed, and a Russian naval infantryman killed - according to the Russian government - all that to rescue a single airman, and they call it as successful?


    And if Russia is allegedly fighting against the "Islamic State" then why was it attacking with these jets the ethnic Turkomans who actually fight against the "Islamic State" on the ground?

    Infantryman < navigator, cruel but that is how military looks at it. When its about helicopter, its just a helicopter, US lost 8 last 2 months in regular flights out of combat zones.

    Coz they also fight aganist regular Syrian Army? Maybe...


    The naval infantry in Russia are considered as elite troops, perhaps not totally as elite as GRU Spietsnaz but still elite.

    If Russia is only there to fight the "Islamic State" then that is what it should do, but no fight against others who are fighting against the IS.

    There are now some allegations being made in the Western mass media that it is only the Western air forces that really fight agains the IS, while the Russians attack only the Free Syrian Army and its ethnic Turkoman allies.

    It is Russia that looks dishonest here.

    Specnaz GRU is military intelligence directorate substructure they are not comparable to naval infantry whatsoever, not even remotely. Naval infantry is still partially being manned by conscripts so...no. Training of one pilot costs far more than any other member of armed forces except few rare examples, one would trade pilot with 500 flying hours for squad of infantry no questions asked.

    Russia NEVER said they are there to fight "only Islamic State", they are there to aid SAA, whoever is the enemy since SAA is the one and only legitimate armed force in Syria along with NDF. Also all those "rebels", "moderates", "Al Nusra", "Turkmens" and other fractions that you find along the way can be nicely placed in one bag.
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    max steel

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  max steel on Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:29 am

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    max steel wrote:



    The Turkman Brigades are aligned with the moderate and anti-IS Free Syrian Army:


    http://en.etilaf.org/coalition-components/national-blocks/turkman-component-of-the-syrian-national-coalition.html


    http://en.etilaf.org/all-news/political-news/erdogan-we-support-the-fsa-who-fight-an-oppressive-regime.html

    Are you kidding us all ?

    Have you ever thought how come these terrorists who masquerade as opposition got skills to form a website to spread their drivel ?

    SORRY You're falling for their propaganda which i feel is not even operated from Syria , just like SOHR operated from london . This website will have its root somewhere in West.

    AH! they are fighting for different factions not just one . Do you know these Free Syrian Army you talk were caught using Chemical Weapons in Ghouta,syria on civilians which US planned to blame it on Syrian government ?

    ( UN agreed that it was Rebels/Terrorists who used Chemical Weapons not syrian govt )


    There is no genuine opposition in Syria Period. These FSA guys are paid mercenaries and they shifted their sides for more money and weapons. (Go listen to Putin's video , he clearly described who these people are.)


    Probably you should read this , it will clear your misinformation ( with evidences ) : Deconstructing the NATO Narrative on Syria


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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Guest on Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:33 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    Zivo wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:Turkey pulling back its rhetoric, if it is believable.

    http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151127/1030833059/turkey-russia-cooperation.html

    Cowardly response, following their cowardly attack. Damn those S-400's work good, you don't even have to fire a shot to get your enemy to back down.

    Job is not done yet and there is everything to play for

    Russia should eradicate Turkey's proxy Islamists in Lakatia, and help the SAA re-establish full control.

    If there are some secular Turkmens or whoever else who just don't trust Assad - fine, let them contact the Russian leadership like the Kurds and some other minor opposition groups did; in order to co-ordinate joint actions against the Islamists. And a ceasefire could probably be brokered between them and the SAA too.

    But I don't think that's the case; 'Turkmen' is just what the Turkish government uses to justify their full-on funding of head-cutters and terrorists in Western Syria.

    Anyway, Russia should cleanse the area, be careful to avoid Turkish airspace although if there is another altercation; because of some self-declared 'no-fly zone', then gloves off chaps. The S-300F, S-400 and Su-30 escorts should significantly tip the odds into the Russian favour.
    Checked up on this. In the Latakia region, the moderates are in full retreat as the battle is said to be in its final stages. Heavy bombing has been occurring ever since the shoot down. Border has been blocked off ever since Turkey had their arms humanitarian trucks mysteriously blown up. Turkish media apparently very buttblasted and blabbing about 'peaceful' villages being bombed and lots of displaced Turkmens. If it ever was an ethnic Turkmen area they lost it forever. Those Turkmens lost the chance to negotiate as soon as they fired upon the catapulted pilots. Other than that, the VVS is doing a great job of hitting Turkish assets in ISIS held territory near Raqqa and Deir ez-Zor.


    Last edited by Ivan the Colorado on Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:37 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Selplnig)

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