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    Talking bollocks thread #2

    jhelb
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    Post  jhelb Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:20 am

    GarryB wrote:Trump said they were pulling out of Syria... now they are not... they are likely to attack Venezuela any day now... what is this bullshit about withdrawing from world conflicts... they created most of them and are not withdrawing from any.

    Trump can't. There are far more powerful forces operating in the US than Trump. Clintons, Bush on any given day backed by the Rothschild and UK, can start conflicts anywhere in the world. Re call how a MI 5 whistleblower had stated way back in 1997 that UK plans to eliminate Gadaffi.

    Third world countries are the most susceptible to such conflicts because they are completely corrupt so it's easy for the US, UK to penetrate the government, bureaucracy, judiciary of these countries. That's what they did in Africa, India, Syria & now Venezuela.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:30 am

    But Venezuela is not supporting the US, only a weak half assed opposition is on their side, which clearly has neither the support of the military or the majority of the local population...

    If all these big conspiracies regarding these big powerful families were true, US foreign policy would be much more consistent... but the fact is that for a bribe to work you don't need to be a Rockafella or rothschild... sometimes just a few hundred bucks can get the job done, but if it was all so easy... why did Castro last longer than most US presidents, and for that matter Saddam and Osama were on the run for decades after they were declared persona non grata...

    I think you over estimate the ability of the west to get the job done, and underestimate their ability to screw things up and make a bad situation worse.
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    Post  jhelb Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:42 am

    GarryB wrote:But Venezuela is not supporting the US, only a weak half assed opposition is on their side, which clearly has neither the support of the military or the majority of the local population...

    If all these big conspiracies regarding these big powerful families were true, US foreign policy would be much more consistent... but the fact is that for a bribe to work you don't need to be a Rockafella or rothschild... sometimes just a few hundred bucks can get the job done, but if it was all so easy... why did Castro last longer than most US presidents, and for that matter Saddam and Osama were on the run for decades after they were declared persona non grata...

    I think you over estimate the ability of the west to get the job done, and underestimate their ability to screw things up and make a bad situation worse.

    U.S policy is remarkably consistent. Remove honest politicians in Africa, Asia, Latin America & install your own puppets. These puppets are completely corrupt who will ensure that Us companies that loot the wealth of these countries.

    Clintons, Bush apart from many US politicians are in the payroll of Saudi Arabia & UAE. No wonder the US can never take action against these Arab countries despite the fact that they sponsor Islamic terrorism worldwide.
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    Post  verkhoturye51 Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:51 pm

    But not that big a market

    The important thing is the overall Russian yearly arms exports have been continuously rising since the 1990s, from some 2 bn to almost 10 bn. This steady growth is a result of pursuing "technical cooperation" partnerships, rather than one-time deals. If a country buys a product, it will need to train personnel, maintain it, get ammo and spare parts and eventually get a replacement. Russians offer full service and thus are their arms sales more resistant against shocks like purchase cancellations.

    As mentioned above Russia is going to be part of the trade route between europe and asia, so it would make sense for them to try to replace some of that traffic with their own products in both directions and take advantage of their geographic location in the middle.

    Another problem are tariffs. In a country leaning westwards, there will be little interest to reduce them in the middle of the sanctions hysteria.

    For Russian companies it is important to diversify in areas that make sense.

    The choice of areas will determine how successful the diversification is. It should be exactly oppositely correlated with primary activity. So if a company is in agriculture, its revenues drop when there's no rain. On the other side, when the weather is hot and dry more tourists come on vacation, so the firm could buy a vessel and offer tours.

    Does the job, but not over engineered and not too expensive or too complicated.

    Generally speaking, the simpler the product, the more competition you have. Developed countries like Russia have too expensive labour force to compete in the cheap products markets with developing countries. Vietnam used to be world's textil factory, now it's making cars. Mid priced clothes come from the least developed Asian countries - Cambodia and Bangladesh. Russians are fortunate enough to have developed heavy industry in the Soviet era and now don't have to worry about survival on export markets, because there's little to no competition when it comes to e.g. cheap SSKs, NPPs, aircraft, space rockets etc.

    it is expensive to make so when they sell it for billions of dollars, that is not all profit

    On the macro level, the GDP of a country can increase either with investment of with consumption. If S-400 producer payed low salaries and made a big profit, the profit would go to stakeholders, who would keep it in a bank for some interest rate. If 5 bn are salaries alone and the company has no profit, workers spend more money in the shops, then business owners maybe use the extra cash to renovate the place, which means business for construction workers. It goes on and on, increasing the GDP. State companies in Russia or China usually don't focus so much on profitability. They care more about the long-term stable growth and not firing the workers when there's less demand and they aren't profitable. Because more unemployment means more uncertainty about future and less purchases of durable goods, which in turn hurts companies and like a virus spreads from one sector to the other until the whole economy is in a recession. Russian economy proved to be much more resilient against the 2008 recession than the west.

    EU at the moment is a sanction imposing, inflexible mess that wont negotiate and wont bend

    The fact that the US and EU are dreaming about keeping world dominance, rather than getting real and talking with Russia and China, shows that western liberalism offers little answers for the 21st century challenges. Most the EU is now after a populist and anti-establishment alternative, whether it's Orban in Hungary or Conte in Italy. Further EU integration will be possible only with fresh ideas that will be able to deal with problems like Syria more independently from the US and taking into account Russia and China.

    trump doesn't know what trump wants

    His anti-interventionalism surely represents the exhaustion from blood and costly wars of the majority of the US people. The interests of the military and industry are also proving to be difficult to ignore. The point is however, without clear vision and 100 % determination, you can't win a smallest battle. They can send few thousand advisors to a hundred conflicts, so the companies continue manufacturing ammo, but they won't get anything done their way.

    Still, even in afghanistan, Russian negotiations seem the most effective and practical in finding a solution there.... no thanks to the Americans.

    If the US actually gets out, Russia will have to get more engaged. Neighbouring Tajikistan is in the CSTO, so if they have a problem, Russia has a problem. But hand on heart, no matter how serious that conflict is, it's not as complicated as Syria.

    Sorry... Jamestown.org?

    Russian bilateral diplomacy allows them to visit a country and focus on various aspects of cooperation. In African countries they get economic rights to extract the resources and diplomatic support, while on the other hand provide them military support.

    Improved international relations might be a benefit, but how do you sell that to the mothers of dead Russian soldiers.

    Syrian experience proved that you can effectively employ PMCs, local militias and allied foreign soldiers, while having very few own personnel on a ground.

    I suspect what Donetsk wants is an elected Kiev that does not shell them.

    All the sides agreed and signed Minsk II and it shouldn't be a problem to implement it, provided that there will be a serious intention in Kiev.

    Russia has plenty of shipyards that could do with projects to make ships,

    The capacities seem to be a bottleneck. All the shipyards and engine producers are filled with orders many years in advance and there are limits to where they can expand. If a company grows too much it gets very hard to manage efficiently. Current submarine, corvette and frigate classes will probably continue production till the end 2020s, while over the same time they'll start producing new projects like Gorshkov M, Husky and UDK. If they decide to make a ship in Ukraine, they know the country and the market and all of its risks better than anybody. Sometimes restoring once good ties can be easier than starting new. I suspect this is on Moscow's long-term agenda.

    the US and the EU wont let the Ukraine be friends with Russia or Asia or anyone else

    Looking objectively, if Ukraine had to choose, Russia is its perfect integration partner. Besides once large trade turnover, Russians share the same burden of modernizing old Soviet industry. They can connect Nikolayev with their shipbuilders like they've done in Kerch and Feodosiya. The same goes for Antonov. They need orders and Russians capacities.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:08 pm

    That's why the hybrid war is waged against them now.
    Exports won't pay for all of the new ships & UDKs, much less CVNs; they better focus on strengthening the economy 1st before those r even considered to be built.
    ..the Russian economy continues to be dependent on the export of weapons and energy resources, while there are no farsighted plans for real and efficient diversification, but the budget of the world's largest state can not continue to depend only on two revenues.
    See more at http://www.pravdareport.com/opinion/142317-usa_russia_containment/


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:12 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:..the Russian economy continues to be dependent on the export of weapons and energy resources, while there are no farsighted plans for real and efficient diversification, but the budget of the world's largest state can not continue to depend only on two revenues.

    This is a joke, right?....  Wonder why the author doesn't use some other time-worn condescending canards?  Upper Volta with rockets? A gas station masquerading as a country? Russia doesn't make anything?

    re Crimea - "And in the United States, strategists know very well what to ask in exchange: China, ie they will try to push Russia out from Chinese orbit in order to avoid the birth of an alliance extremely dangerous for the creaky American-centric unipolar order."

    ROFL!!  Russia is going to throw its burgeoning strategic partnership with China under the bus in exchange for worthless words from an agreement-incapable Washington?   The ignorance of this writer is simply staggering...


    Try this out... "exploiting the creeping and existing fears in the Kremlin about a Chinese-run Eurasia which would doom Moscow to play a peripheral role."

    Oh dear...  even if the worst possible outcome were to transpire, it's infinitely better than the fate that Imperial Buttfuckistan has planned for the lowly Moskals.

    and this gem...  "Chancellor Merkel has satisfied every US directive, even freezing profitable energetic projects such as the Nord Stream 2."

    NS2 frozen?  /facepalm...  Not exactly up on current affairs is he?   Very Happy   I 'spose he thinks German pushback on Murican fracked LNG is an example of satisfying Murican diktat, or refusing to increase military spending, or talking about a EU army and having more foreign policy independence?  


    Yep, fuktard idiots like this writer are little more than sock puppets endlessly repeating the same shit...  Robots endlessly locked in a goto loop.  I guess this is either Pravda branching out into comedy, or just another example of showing people how truly mind-numbingly fucked-up Westerners and their intransigent mindset can be.


    Last edited by Big_Gazza on Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:22 am; edited 2 times in total
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:18 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:That's why the hybrid war is waged against them now.
    Exports won't pay for all of the new ships & UDKs, much less CVNs; they better focus on strengthening the economy 1st before those r even considered to be built.
    ..the Russian economy continues to be dependent on the export of weapons and energy resources, while there are no farsighted plans for real and efficient diversification, but the budget of the world's largest state can not continue to depend only on two revenues.
    See more at http://www.pravdareport.com/opinion/142317-usa_russia_containment/

    This has been factually disproven.

    You as a user has proven your inability to read facts. Facts pointed out in the Russian economics thread.

    You instead rely on garbage news.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:40 am

    Yep, fuktard idiots like this writer are little more than sock puppets endlessly repeating the same shit...
    He's pro-Russian & just described Western strategy on Pravda's site.
    This has been factually disproven.
    You as a user has proven your inability to read facts. ..
    You instead rely on garbage news.
    I also watch & listen prominent Russian experts & politicians on YouTube- there's big anti-Putin discontent thanks to the widespread poverty & the economy that could be a lot better. Low oil prices, sanctions, corruption, economic crimes, & capital flight all add up to make live for average Russians miserable.
    There's even talk of a palace coup, made more veritable after Nazarbaev's sudden resignation to bring Kazakhstan, a close ally, closer to China's orbit.
    There, everything looks civil & orderly, but China's fingerprints r all over it.

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:44 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    I also watch & listen prominent Russian experts & politicians on YouTube- there's big anti-Putin discontent thanks to the widespread poverty & the economy that could be a lot better. Low oil prices, sanctions, corruption, economic crimes, & capital flight all add up to make live for average Russians miserable.
    There's even talk of a palace coup, made more veritable after Nazarbaev's sudden resignation to bring Kazakhstan, a close ally, closer to China's orbit.
    There, everything looks civil & orderly, but China's fingerprints r all over it.
       

    I disapprove attacking you for message you bring. This is not forum about. But let me remain skeptical about energy + weapons statement. Weapons export is ~ 15bln /year. Do you really believe this is main income for Russia?
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:47 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    Yep, fuktard idiots like this writer are little more than sock puppets endlessly repeating the same shit...
    He's pro-Russian & just described Western strategy on Pravda's site.
    This has been factually disproven.
    You as a user has proven your inability to read facts. ..
    You instead rely on garbage news.
    I also watch & listen prominent Russian experts & politicians on YouTube- there's big anti-Putin discontent thanks to the widespread poverty & the economy that could be a lot better. Low oil prices, sanctions, corruption, economic crimes, & capital flight all add up to make live for average Russians miserable.
    There's even talk of a palace coup, made more veritable after Nazarbaev's sudden resignation to bring Kazakhstan, a close ally, closer to China's orbit.
    There, everything looks civil & orderly, but China's fingerprints r all over it.
       

    Why not do us all a favor so you can really show us your awesome mathematical skills.

    Please share with us, with actual hard numbers and sites with facts, on how much the contribution of oil and gas sales are to Russian economy.

    Now KVS will have a field day with you

    And please spare me. You know nothing of what is happening. There is no talk of palace coup or anything. Otherwise, prove it with numbers to back up the people wanting it. Otherwise, delete your account for spreading fake news.
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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:50 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    I also watch & listen prominent Russian experts & politicians on YouTube- there's big anti-Putin discontent thanks to the widespread poverty & the economy that could be a lot better. Low oil prices, sanctions, corruption, economic crimes, & capital flight all add up to make live for average Russians miserable.
    There's even talk of a palace coup, made more veritable after Nazarbaev's sudden resignation to bring Kazakhstan, a close ally, closer to China's orbit.
    There, everything looks civil & orderly, but China's fingerprints r all over it.
       

    I disapprove attacking you for message you bring. This is not forum about. But let me remain skeptical about energy + weapons statement. Weapons export  is ~ 15bln /year. Do you really believe this is main income for Russia?

    Yes he does. If he didn't he would not have posted something so stupid.  And Tsavo lion has a history of believing and posting stupidity.

    Hopefully he reads this and then gets back to us.

    https://www.awaragroup.com/blog/share-of-oil-and-gas-in-russias-tax-revenue-dropped-to-21/
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:29 am

    miketheterrible wrote:
    Yes he does. If he didn't he would not have posted something so stupid.  And Tsavo lion has a history of believing and posting stupidity.

    Hopefully he reads this and then gets back to us.

    https://www.awaragroup.com/blog/share-of-oil-and-gas-in-russias-tax-revenue-dropped-to-21/

    ok you attack message. forum is to exchange different views. But why to use vulgar vocabulary or names calling? dunno dunno dunno
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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:36 am

    Because, I don't consider such people to be human so they have no feelings to hurt anyway.
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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:50 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Low oil prices, sanctions, corruption, economic crimes, & capital flight all add up to make live for average Russians miserable.

    You loose credibility when you regurgitate BS rhetoric. Reality is what it is - accept it and move on.
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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:57 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:ok you attack message. forum is to exchange different views.  But why to use vulgar vocabulary or names calling? dunno dunno dunno

    Maybe its because we are fed up to the back teeth with this fecking nonsense? Seriously, people shouldn't bother posting here if they don't have the sense of an inbred goat to realise that Western MSM and elite-funded think-tanks (aka propaganda factories) routinely and habitually LIE about Russia in every possible way. Its about flooding the debate with misinfo and fakery in order to influence the perceptions of the low-brow mouth-breathers of the common herd, and to enhance the smugness of the Elites who are hopelessly addicted to Exceptionalism and can't process anything that doesn't titillate their pleasure centers.

    bah... Trolls provoke and then people complain when others smack them down?
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    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 25 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:56 am

    I posted this before:
    The top exports of Russia are Crude Petroleum ($96.6B), Refined Petroleum ($58.4B), Petroleum Gas ($19.8B), Coal Briquettes ($16.1B) and Wheat ($7.93B), using the 1992 revision of the HS (Harmonized System) classification. ..
    The top export destinations of Russia are China ($39.1B), the Netherlands ($27.7B), Germany ($19.9B), Belarus ($18.5B) and the United States ($15.4B). The top import origins are China ($43.8B), Germany ($27.2B), Belarus ($12.5B), the United States ($10.9B) and Italy ($9.2B).

    https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/rus/

    Russian main exports are energy (oil and petroleum products, gas, coal), rolled steel, ferrous and nonferrous metals and minerals. The greater part of Russian exports belongs to oil and petroleum products. Other leading exports are natural gas, timber, fertilizers, machinery and equipment, armaments. The foreign countries receive from Russia over 300 million tons of oil and approximately 250 billion cubic meters of gas.
    https://www.advantour.com/russia/economy/trade.htm

    From 2006 to 2009, Russia’s GDP more than doubled from £538billion ($767billion) to £1,166billion ($1,660billion) thanks to increased state control over the economy and rising oil prices, the country’s main export.
    But in recent years, the economy has slumped along with oil prices, plunging Russia into a recession that saw growth hit a low of -2.5% in 2015.
    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/679102/vladimir-putin-coup-ousted-russia-president-kremlin-elite-weakness-news

    Russia’s trade surplus declined to USD 13.37 billion in January of 2019 from USD 16.92 billion in the corresponding month of the previous year. Exports fell 11.2 percent to USD 29.82 billion, dragged down by shipments to both non-CIS countries (-11.5 percent to USD 26.27 billion) and CIS countries (-9.2 percent to USD 3,56 billion). Meanwhile, imports decreased for the third straight month by 1.3 percent to USD 16,46 billion, as purchases from non-CIS countries edged down 0.9 percent to USD 14,62 billion and those from CIS countries went down 3.8 percent to USD 1,84 billion.
    https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/balance-of-trade

    The current exports situation hasn't changed much. Perhaps they export less oil/gas/timber/minerals & more crops & arms, but that leaves the same result.
    They have $4.7B trade deficit with China, their main partner.
    Russia hugely depends on others for it's foreign currency revenue, & she doesn't produce everything & must import the things the people became accustomed to consume. When they have to tighten their belts while the oligarchs grow fat, internal trouble starts.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/russia-is-a-mess-the-poverty-rate-is-soaring-and-only-10-of-85-regions-are-financially-stable-2017-01-31

    https://www.ceicdata.com/en/russia/foreign-trade-summary-federal-customs-service/foreign-trade-turnover

    https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/government-revenues

    https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/putin-s-hold-russian-public-loosening#


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:07 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add a quote)
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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:22 am

    And, how much of that accounts for Russia's GDP? 20% at best.

    Your last statement is stupid too.

    I see you didn't read my link.

    Surplus budget, average income higher, poverty rate down, all goes against your narrative.
    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 25 Ow9kh28

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/118107/

    Budget surplus in Jan amounted to 2% of GDP

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/?search=%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0

    Whole shlew of statistics that destroys you and your narrative.

    May I also suggest you look up what trade surplus even means? You hurt yourself when you post evidence against your narrative as a surplus means they made more money in trade of import vs export Laughing

    Plus, as pointed out in the economics thread, Russia's GDP drop in 2015 is less than 2.5% and it had nothing to do with oil and gas, had everything to do with the incoming sanctions and overall attack on Russia's economic structure by attacking their banks.

    And here you go for what they export:

    http://www.worldstopexports.com/russias-top-10-exports/

    The following export product groups represent the highest dollar value in Russian global shipments during 2018. Also shown is the percentage share each export category represents in terms of overall exports from Russia.

    Mineral fuels including oil: US$237.6 billion (52.9% of total exports)
    Iron, steel: $23.4 billion (5.2%)
    Cereals: $10.5 billion (2.3%)
    Gems, precious metals: $10.1 billion (2.2%)
    Machinery including computers: $9.2 billion (2%)
    Wood: $9 billion (2%)
    Fertilizers: $8.2 billion (1.8%)
    Aluminum: $6.6 billion (1.5%)
    Copper: $5.4 billion (1.2%)
    Electrical machinery, equipment: $4.9 billion (1.1%)


    Last edited by miketheterrible on Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:47 am; edited 5 times in total
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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:30 am

    So, now that we know you have zero idea about Russian economics cause you won't actually provide what I asked (export to GDP) and actual oil and gas revenue to GDP, now share with us your conspiracy of growing discontent?

    Laughing
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    Post  kvs Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:17 am

    When it comes to Russia every good fact is open to debate and every BS malicious opinion is credible. This is what you get from decades
    of anti-Russian propaganda (note that the USSR and Russia were used interchangeably during the Cold War).

    According the World Bank, Russian resource rents (oil, gas, minerals, wood) accounted for 11.5% of GDP in 2016:

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/ny.gdp.totl.rt.zs

    As noted by the Awara Group and others the oil and gas sector is only part of the resource extraction sector. Oil and gas
    account for less than 8% of GDP in Russia. And from the World Bank data and other sources the share of this sector in
    the GDP is shrinking from year to year.

    As for the taxes that the Russian federal government collects from the oil and gas sector we have some points:

    1) Who says that the tax fraction of the total budget has to reflect the fraction of the GDP? That is rather ad hoc and
    stupid. As anyone with a clue knows, there is something called comparative advantage in trade. For Russia, oil and gas
    are plentiful and give it a trading advantage compared to others without these resources. So the Russian government
    can optimize its tax revenue by weighting it in favour of the export sector. This offloads the average private taxpayer
    and allows them to only pay 13% in taxes.

    2) The share of the oil and gas derived taxes is as of 2018 under 20% of the total budget. Why is this an issue?
    Would it look more pretty if it was 8% and regular taxpayers paid more income taxes? How would that stimulate
    the economy. All you saps and whiners need to pay attention. In the precious NATO west it is considered good
    policy to cut taxes for regular taxpayers.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:32 am

    Anyone who thinks Russia has a banana republic commodity export dependent GDP is fully detached from reality. Banana republics
    have the highest import rates on of all economies since they produce basically nothing domestically aside from the export commodity.
    Russia has one of the lowest import rates of all countries on Earth:

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 25 Imports-and-gdp-2014

    For obvious reasons China does not need to import the full spectrum of goods it exports. China is the world's manufacturing
    center. The USA has the biggest economy which has been mature and diversified. It is slowly sliding into poverty due to
    excessive offshoring. Brazil is by no means a banana republic even though it has a high poverty rate. Banana republics
    don't have companies like Embraer.

    The above chart also indicates that smaller economies have a hard time of being self-sufficient even if they are developed.
    And this chart also raises the question about the relative size of Russia's GDP to that of Germany, UK and France. I do
    not think that is credible to compare Russia's PPP GDP to Germany. Germany imports almost twice as much as Russia which
    indicates it does not have the critical mass to produce those products itself. That follows from its much smaller population
    compared to Russia and the USA.

    In other posts I raised the point that PPP GDP does not properly normalize the GDP since the PPP correction factor is biased
    to consumer goods and services. Russia has large parts of its industrial sector operating with a PPP factor much higher than
    1.8. It also has services delivered in modes not seen the west (e.g. by companies to their workers). So there is a non
    monetized activity that cannot be scaled with PPP. It would not be unreasonable to estimate Russia's PPP GPD at $6 trillion
    instead of $4 trillion.

    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:34 am

    miketheterrible wrote:So, now that we know you have zero idea about Russian economics cause you won't actually provide what I asked (export to GDP) and actual oil and gas revenue to GDP, now share with us your conspiracy of growing discontent?

    Laughing

    It is sad how people lap up MSM excrement with relish. Never give any journalist or pundit the benefit of the doubt.

    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:48 am

    kvs wrote:Anyone who thinks Russia has a banana republic commodity export dependent GDP is fully detached from reality.    Banana republics
    have the highest import rates on of all economies since they produce basically nothing domestically aside from the export commodity.
    Russia has one of the lowest import rates of all countries on Earth:

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 25 Imports-and-gdp-2014

    For obvious reasons China does not need to import the full spectrum of goods it exports.   China is the world's manufacturing
    center.   The USA has the biggest economy which has been mature and diversified.   It is slowly sliding into poverty due to
    excessive offshoring.   Brazil is by no means a banana republic even though it has a high poverty rate.   Banana republics
    don't have companies like Embraer.  

    The above chart also indicates that smaller economies have a hard time of being self-sufficient even if they are developed.
    And this chart also raises the question about the relative size of Russia's GDP to that of Germany, UK and France.   I do
    not think that is credible to compare Russia's PPP GDP to Germany.   Germany imports almost twice as much as Russia which
    indicates it does not have the critical mass to produce those products itself.   That follows from its much smaller population
    compared to Russia and the USA.  

    In other posts I raised the point that PPP GDP does not properly normalize the GDP since the PPP correction factor is biased
    to consumer goods and services.   Russia has large parts of its industrial sector operating with a PPP factor much higher than
    1.8.   It also has services delivered in modes not seen the west (e.g. by companies to their workers).   So there is a non
    monetized activity that cannot be scaled with PPP.   It would not be unreasonable to estimate Russia's PPP GPD at $6 trillion
    instead of $4 trillion.


    The thing about that graph you posted, its circa 2014, in 2019 Russia probably imports less than Brazil.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:24 pm

    That is likely true. The fact that Russia can import substitute demonstrates that it is an advanced and diversified economy.
    If it was so easy to import-substitute, every banana republic would have become developed and economically independent
    a long time ago.

    Like I said, positive facts about Russia are to be questioned, while bile-filled BS hate projection is to be taken seriously. The
    British and US MSM are rabid in their smear and belittling of Russia. They have no credibility.

    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:42 pm

    Lot of the imports back then were food items.

    Back in 2014 Russia was negotiating with China to import pork meat from there, now it is starting exporting it to China.


    A few years ago there was a documentary on TV, some finnish guy traveling Russia. Quite good. No propaganda BS. He was talking to some business men in Murmansk who made a good statement. He said it is fine for countries like Canada or Australia to get rich exporting raw materials but according to the west and its minions Russia should be ashamed for doing it.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:13 am

    Wasn't that long ago lots of european countries went around Africa looking to stir up business deals and were offering a few billion dollars in loans so they could afford european products, but most of these countries already had dealings with China and Russia and they weren't really interested in getting into debt.

    I seem to remember May saying that those African countries should fear Chinese projects like building power stations and improving infrastructure because they are trying to get them into a debt trap they could never pay their way out of... you know... what europe has been doing for the last 300 years.

    It was funny because they interviewed an African guy and he said the Chinese and Russians are much better to deal with because they don't demand law changes to get exclusive rights to resources and also don't demand other law changes to suit their operations in the country like the westerners do.

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