Anti-Putin Discussion

Putin's "soft power" is giving Ukraine free or heavily discounted natural gas, only to later for that country to turn against Russia. Also he treated Milosevic and Qaddafi as expandable pawns. Schroeder even got a well paid job in Russia, after co-participating in the bombing of Yugoslavia back in 1999.

Putin's "hard power" is supporting a minority supported maniac like Assad in Syria. It is a one big trap over there. Why is Russia pouring troops to that country? Also in some areas on the border with China, Russian side of the border is "protected" by actual mannequins because apparently there are no border guards available.

Putin's "economic power" is the richest 1% in Russia own 97% of the country's wealth, or the third largest wealth inequality in the world.


Will Russia survive Putin?

kvs wrote:
You just left the reservation of credibility.   If your smear had any validity then Russia would be exactly like Ukraine, an oligarch banana republic.  
Yeltsin basically achieved this state of rot by 1999.  It was Putin who cleaned it up and increased real wages by over 500%.   Of course, you
"everyone is a critic" experts use your expert gut feelings to claim that Putin did not do enough.  As if he was really the tyrant that the NATO hate
propaganda paints him to be.   So basically you are part of another collection of Russia haters but pissing on it from a different direction.  

Putin the "appeaser" would never have taken back Crimea and launched the campaign to restore Syria.   He would have let NATO declare a
no fly zone over Syria and gang rape it like they did Libya.

Problem is you people cant differentiate Putin from Russia. Putin is not Russia, Putin is just another formal leader of Russia just like Yeltsin, Gorbachev, Andropov, Brezjnev, Khrushchev, Stalin, Lenin, shit load of Romanovs and so on. If I compare him to those people he is mediocrity. Sure, he is definitely far better then Yeltsin (shit slinging chimpanzee would be better then Yeltsin), significantly better then Gorbachev, roughly on the level of Brezjnev or Nikita, worse then Andropov, Stalin or Lenin. Issue here is Putin fanboys cant bare the criticism of Putin, and conflux criticism of Putin ans criticism of Russia as if those two are the same. My advice is for you to dispense with such cults of personality and focus on the policy. Putin's policy is not all that smart. He is appeaser in international relations, and liberal on domestic economic issues, and this makes him less effective in defending Russian interest then he could be had he pursued more competent policies.

ZoA wrote:Putin is not  Russia

True, however for many Russians AFAIK he is.

Putin is just another formal leader of Russia just like Yeltsin, Gorbachev, Andropov, Brezjnev, Khrushchev, Stalin, Lenin, shit load of Romanovs and so on. If I compare him to those people he is mediocrity.

Can country have an informal leader? like whom?

roughly on the level of Brezjnev or Nikita, worse then Andropov, Stalin or Lenin

 sorry had to clean keyboard as I spilled coffee reading this

Me thinks you never tried to learn history of Russia. Or learned from Ekcho of Moscow/Voice of America. But ad rem: how it is that you outside Russia know he is mediocre and 77% of Russians voted for him?

Putin's policy is not all that smart. He is appeaser in international relations, and liberal on domestic economic issues, and this makes him less effective in defending Russian interest then he could be had he pursued more competent policies.

OK, tell me now please what would YOU do on his place? he is mediocre how would you do to be brilliant?

ZoA wrote:
Putin is not  Russia

Putin is not Russia ,but he is the one who choose the Economic Minister of Russia and the ones who significantly
influence the way the Russian budget will be invested in Russia. It was Putin who Put Kudrin in charge of Russia economy. So you can't say he have nothing to do with the way Russia develops.. he is the ultimate chief of Russia
and he can pressure the entire Government to move in any direction he wants.  That Said... It was Putin idea ,
to turn Russia into a monopoly of Energy and develop Russia economy for the most part in the same way Third World Countries in Africa does.. that is Commodities.. Low Risk Business like OIL and Natural Gas and Agriculture and mining.
that is easy ,low risk business... and then since he came to power in 2000 ,thats all he have been doing in developing Russia.. do the LAZY more easier path and allow Americans to steal the show and dominate and lead the world in
innovative Technology and Entertainment and in Space too..  So Putin and Lavrov complains almost every day of
how Unfair are the Americans with Russia ,how unfair is the west.. but he don't do anything about it... Continues to sponsor the American System ,by following it , instead of fighting it.. Just creating a new banking System is not enough..as he have been hoping to do with BRICS.. he needs a entire new system .. or at least ones that covers not only banking system. but also an alternative to American technology industry ,and an alternative to NATO too..
and show a clear leadership in Space  , and not just say happy with taxi to the ISS.   Taking the path of least resistance doing the easier things with their nation development, is never going to help Russia to defeat US system.
All that Russia needs to do to stop US is become a much more successful and more popular nation ,with their civilian business. Thats when more and more nations in Europe will notice Russia is much better and will start moving away from the American Financial ,Political and Business world.. but before they can do that....Russia needs to have a system already working...that is comparable if not Better than the west.. new Visa/mastercard. New United Nations ,New internet ,new IT /technology world..new banking system.. All those things can be done in an alliance with China
and this will allow Europe to no longer fear American sanctions ,if they decide to pull the plug with US. Japan is also very friendly to Russia.. and Russia can even influence Japan away from US.  This is what Putin needs a Strategy
to defeat the American empire.. but doing the same things over and over and allow the west to lead the world development in to the future ,is Putin's biggest mistake.  To not understand how Americans civilian Business (soft power) are used like a weapon ,to Influence the world and create alliances against Russia.

This is why i don't understand all this hate against Russia central bank.. ignoring Putin's short vision for
Russia future is the real big problem. Raising the interest rates ,lowering them.. giving more loans or less..
Nationalizing the Russian bank...Building more pipelines or less. Is IRRELEVANT..!!!!!  Nothing of that will fix
the real source of all Russia Problems.. and what is the root of Russia problems??????

That RUssia is part of an Unfair System..created by Anglos and Jews.. and that Putin don't
understand how to counter it... and there is a hint.. is not only about Banks domination..
but about World Leadership instead. Nations that leads the world Into the Future
is the ones that every other nation in the world will follow... Nations that only focus
in SPorts medals and in Energy , and building a powerful military will not get the
attention of the most developed countries.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

Putin is just another formal leader of Russia just like Yeltsin, Gorbachev, Andropov, Brezjnev, Khrushchev, Stalin, Lenin, shit load of Romanovs and so on. If I compare him to those people he is mediocrity.

Can country have an informal leader? like whom?

Of course. This is why we have entire array of of terms that describe powers and influences that operate beyond formal leadership. What do you thing terms like "gray eminence", "power behind the throne, "deep politics" designate? You must be quite politicly inexperienced and naive to even ask that question. Do you really think gutless maggots like Trump, Macron or May have real power in their countries?

Putin's policy is not all that smart. He is appeaser in international relations, and liberal on domestic economic issues, and this makes him less effective in defending Russian interest then he could be had he pursued more competent policies.

OK, tell me now please what would YOU do on his place? he is mediocre how would you do to be brilliant?

No need to ask me. He has plenty of very competent adwisors loyal to Russia that are begging him literally for years to stop with stupid liberal economic polices. For example recently siloviki faction that asked him to establish this government:
http://johnhelmer.org/?p=17683

Instead in all appearances he decided to ignore this good advice and instead consult traitor Kudrin how to form his next government.

But ad rem: how it is that you outside Russia know he is mediocre and 77% of Russians voted for him?

People are still traumatised form Yeltsin years, and they compare Putin to him, or utterly moronic western formal leaders. They forget there were as, or more, competent leaders before Gorbachev and Yeltsin fucked up everything.

GarryB wrote:
And why do you think that Russia is so rich and powerful it can ignore the international economy and do what it wants the way the US does?

Do you really think the Russians can do anything they like and get away with it?

Right now they have an alternative to SWIFT, and they are at the point where they are probably strong enough to do a lot of things they would have been crushed for doing even just 10 years ago.

Putin is the reason they are in that position... but go on whining about it...

Is not about Money GarryB.. already told this to you.. Is not about Military power either.. Is not about Disconnecting
Russia from the west.. i never said that..  Reason why the communist party ,makes Putin to look like a genius.. in comparison ,to what they promote.. a return of the mistakes of the things the Soviet Union did..

I Already told you ,that Russia/Putin did the right thing in Ukraine and Syria.. when its comes to Re-action to
the conflicts ,once they started. So im not questioning Putin capabilities to minimize damages to a broken car..
and get a broken car to continue working.. What im questioning is Putin Ability to understand Why Russia is
not respected in the world.... Obama even told it...and made jokes about it.. What does Russia make? told Obama..
to a discourse aimed at the international community. Obviously Obama knew Russia produce excellent second to none military hardware ,nuclear reactors ,missiles and Space Rockets. he knew that.. But still Why Obama was asking What does Russia make?  he was speaking about Russia civilian Business.. that export NOTHING ,that the world really needs.. understand?  

So i will trade any day , a Russia with 10% GDP economy growth by year ,selling Energy and potatoes to records levels in the world..to third world nations. For a 1% GDP growth Russia Economy exporting Modern Innovative technology to Europe that the world likes and nobody else have.. So is not about numbers , not about quantity ,but about QUALITY... Not about Numbers.. but about having the attention of the world ,specially the west in future development  ..understand?  

Middle east if you look at Saudi Arabia ,Qatar ,UAE.. their nations ,most of it looks like is all ,
at the level of Sochi at least.. it looks stunning their roads and buildings ,airports with gold ,superior
that anything the west have.. but do the middle east have real influence to the west? NO.. other than
selling something to them no.. the opinion about them ,is always the same , Third world nations with money
with luxury but a poor quality of life and poor influence. nobody wants to be closer to Saudi Arabia or Qatar..
or UAE.. they produce nothing too.. so nobody will like to study there..

The quality of most of Russia economy ,is at the same level of AFrican third world nations.. Why?
Because Russia economy , largely depends on Business that don't require brains..business than even the most primitive outdated nations can do.. like Energy business ,Agriculture,Mining , Roads and housing.. and tourism..

Russia have an energy industry..and so NIGERIA too.. and most third world nations in the world.
Russia have an agriculture industry.. and So NIGERIA too.. and most third world nations in the world.
Russia have a mining industry.. and so Nigeria and most third world nations..
Russia promotes heavily sports like religion..and so every other third world nation too..

The difference is that Russia is a world major exporter of top military hardware and also export nuclear reactors too.

Yet Obama told ... to the international community.. what does Russia make ? THis is because none of the things
that Russia build are meaningful in any way ,shape or form for the average civilian Society.. Understand?

So no , im not saying that Putin needs to start a war with NATO ,creating a no fly zone in SYria.. or that Putin need
to be Stronger with its military.. NO..      What im saying.. is that Putin needs to be STRONG on Business that nobody else can do/ or only a couple of nations  can... for being too difficult to do ,for requiring Real Knowledge ,Intelligence and Scientific power.. with the Goal of making Russia a leader in the world.. in the things that really matter ,that people can use every day.. and will like to have.. understand?

Said in another way.. If US  top technology giants from california.. abandoned US and moved to Russia to work for kremlin ,then US will lose in no time its world influence over the world.. and the only way they will have keep Europe on his orbit ,will be through terrorism.. with negative influence.. of economic sanctions ,CIA revolutions , invasions of US for regime change..  So US will not be able to hold its Empire.. if is not attractive anymore ,for no longer having a leadership in any business that matters for civilian society... that is US Empire ,their influence will collapse.. will have nothing to Influence the world anymore..People in Europe will see ,they no longer need to follow the American Empire system.. and will see Russia as a better nation.. UNDERSTAND?  

So is not about being "Strong" or more intimidating ,with the military ,what Russia needs to be ...but about
making Russia a Business Leader im the world that and export modern technology ,that can counter US business in the things they are more praised in the world .. understand??

Oh noo.. Russia have no money for that.. yes they have.. but putin the ignorant  keep wasting money in Sports and Olympics.. and Victory parades and in charity for world war 2 veterans . and in promoting Russian past.
They invested $52 billions dollars in Sochi Alone.. and about $12 billions in FIFA 2018.. and agree with a $250 billion super train to CHINA... Russia have a hell of a lot of money ,, that very few nations can pull from their ass..but Russia can do it..  while at the same time reducing the budget in things , that could allow Russia to truly Counter American Empire influence in the world.. like Space .  

So this is pure Lunacy , Putin's Vision of Russia... and if it is True ,that he will capitulate to the Americans with an even more mediocre dependent economy of the Americans.. turning Russia into a near vassal state of US for peace.. then that will not be Idiocy , but treason.. and will deserve a revolution.

So this is all what im saying.. stop the waste of money in Bullshit sports and Olympics , and in Promoting the better times of Russia in the past , privatize its sports industry and government should sell its energy assets to Europe to friendly nations ,privatize it.. half Gazprom and Half Europe.. stop wasting money meaningless Trains to China ,and with the money saved ,invest the dam money in Business like an ambitious space program or in counter US technology giants in California.. thats is all that i want... Russia needs to counter American influence in the world.. nothing more and nothing less.. so thats when Putin will start to notice a change of tone of the west. when Russia interest will be
respected..   Senator McAin wanted to sanction Russia space program and could not do it.. why ? Because Americans Respect and admire a lot Russia space program... So Putin already have the magic formula to counter American sanctions.. all that Putin needs to do.. is promote the development of Russia in a totally different way.. instead of commodities based economy , All Putin needs to focus is in promoting and economy that is a Fun Economy..things
people truly respect and fascinates them.. this is Soft Power ,So Russia economic model ,should aim to hit very hard
California Tech Giants not only compete but to Lead but also develop a very ambitious Space Program.. and not allow
US to take the lead in space.

i have to repeat myself so many times.. because people keep missing the whole thing . Russia in fact don't need
to put more pressure on its economy ,to counter the US empire.. what it needs is A LEADER with Vision ,that instead
of wasting the money in meaningless things that at best will promote Tourism.. he should invest the money in an Modern Industrial technology revolution.  And is not about inventing only ,since many inventions never are used..
.but about developing a strong international business ,that switch Russia from a commodities exporter power to a innovative Technology exporter and the clear leader in Space.

GarryB ...Why US and Soviet Union ,invested so many $$Trillions in their Space Program.. why so much money
for just a ride to the stars ?  Because it was a RACE for INFLUENCE.. a race to Attract Europe and other developed
nations to your Orbit.. thats why...


So Putin needs to develop an Economy aimed 100% at Influencing Europe away of the American system.
not with gas discounts ,but by drawing their attention away from TOP US tech  and space Industries business.
By making Russia the most influential nation in the world..  and how you make a nation influential ? By doing
things that draw the attention of the most developed nations in a major positive way.. thats how. Putin wants
attention... he told the west don't listen us.. now they will listen right? Good.. then if Putin wants attention..
that Russia interest in the world are Respected.. then is not with Hypersonic Missiles .that never will be used
how he will get Respect ,but by Building equally amazing Civilian innovative Business ,that the west can match.
If Putin invested as much energy as he does in Sport and in modernizing its military , into countering US tech Giants in California and US space program.. then long ago Russia space program will have landed with humans in the moon and mars and Russia having the only Space Tourism industry in the world ,with travels around the moon orbit and return..
and all the world attention on Russia.. All Russia adversaries will be respecting Russia.. congratulating Russia and American companies in a fight to get closer to Russia.  Russia Not ignored anymore..  Russia interest respected..
IF Russia was a highly influential nation to the west.. not even its nuclear weapons will be needed at all.. what a contradiction no?  Putin needs a very powerful military ,to counter its  abysmal influence with the west. But had Russia had Leadership. that is was leading the world development.. then Everyone will be seeking to become closer to Russia..
and the US unipolar world ,disbanded.. and a multipolar world of  international law and respect for others will rule.

Why Putin estabilization of Russia economy today to 1% or 3% or 5% of 10% , today or next month or year..
why none of this really matter? Because all Putin achievements in Russia economy can be reversed over night
with a new war ,Russia is forced to participate in defense of allies or with a new round of sanctions of Europe..
If Americans manage to get Europe Fully aligned with them... lets say stop buying energy from Russia?
then Russia will go bankrupt.. understand?  and they can do it.. look the baltics.. they so loyal to US ,that prefer
to pay twice more for energy than abandoning US empire.

 So what really matters is What is Russia doing longterm to counter the American
System , the American Business Influence over Europe.. this is what really matters.. Because as long Russia do nothing
to counter US influence over Europe , then NATO will continue to exist..and the US sanctions will continue to damage
Russia economy. and Russia security will be at major risk too..  So is not by "stabilizing" Russia economy ,how you "fix" Russia problems.. Because the root of the problem is not fixed.. that is US at war with Russia and Russia doing nothing to counter it.  neither Russia is doing anything to Influence Americans..that also can be influenced.. look at Russia space program. thats a fucking influence Russia have on Americans.. is probably the only thing Russia influence not only the US gov but also American society too.. but Putin the Great Ignorant don't take major advantage of this..
To take this influence of Russia space program to a new level by making it far more ambitious long term than the American one...  Praising Putin for minimizing the Damages the US have done to Russia is not understanding the big problems Russia face.. Any other front line US opens on Russia as they did in ukraine and Syria ,lets say NATO attacks Serbia in same way they did to Syria.. could sink Russia economy ,and reverse all Putin gains. overnight. or US restarting the war in Ukraine forcing Russia to invade will sink Russia economy.. and Putin developed (fake) "Stability" will end . So in general Russia in reality is a very vulnerable weak nation today,(not as bad as the 90s. but still not strong enough to have a real independence) only because of its dependence on the western system that Putin did not counter for most its political life ,perhaps in the believe that Russia will be allowed to build energy pipelines to Europe in peace and make Russia a very rich nation without US opposing it . What History and life experiences is teaching Russia , is that Russia needs to be a True Independent Nation .. not only in politics,military but in Business too and that it can't allow US major influential business to continue dominating ,and Russia needs to lead
in the world development.

ZoA wrote:
Do you really think gutless maggots like Trump, Macron or May have real power in their countries?

Actually Trump does that's why so much voices agaisnt him form "international" oligarchs as he represents "american" oligarchs (check Satanovsky for details
Not sure who you cal gray eminences -there are always elites who rule. Official ruler is their representative. Was there any different thorough the history?

No need to ask me. He has plenty of very competent adwisors loyal to Russia that are begging him literally for years to stop with stupid liberal economic polices.

ekhm to you claim Putin is mediocre and some US blogger knows better how to rule Russia? Fairly strong statement. Even Russian internal commentators not really pro-Putin calim golikova or Medvedev are Putin's people and gosudarstvenniki (you might call them patriots)
I have no doubt Rogozin is too but he is much better in field of propaganda then doing-things. That's why Borisov as deputy prime minister is important move. Other members of cabinet will be
Siluannov (good accountant)
Mutko (Putins dude) - organizer of Sochi infrastructure/ olympics


Borisov (army, Putins dude, knows how to have things done)


Kozak (GRU, Putins dude) - took care of Crimea and Caucasus.


Gordeev (Putins dude, pretty good in organizing economy as you can see his curriculum as governor of Voronezh)  
after wiki

In 2012, the Voronezh Region in the rate of growth in industrial production took first place in the Russian Federation, in 2013, industrial production grew by 6.4% (in Russia - by 0.3%), the volume of agricultural production in the region increased by 9.1% , (in the country as a whole - by 6.2%) [11] , construction grew by 8.4% (in Russia by 1.5%).

Akimov youngest (48 yo) - former govrnt of Kaluga

http://archive.government.ru/eng/persons/207/
https://www.rbth.com/articles/2009/04/29/290409_kaluga.html

Not long ago, the Kaluga region was primarily associated with Konstantin Tsiolkovsky, a maverick scientist from the end of the last century who pioneered work on rockets. Now the Region has a reputation as one of Russia's hotspots for foreign investment thanks in part to an energetic public relations campaign and considerable tax incentives.
The regional administration has attracted an investment portfolio of 36 agreements worth about 3bn euros ($4bn) and is in talks with new investors on projects worth an additional 2.5bn euros, said Kaluga deputy governor Maxim Akimov.

oldish but you can see that in worst times he could organize economy.


Dont think Medvedev's choice is not approved by Putin BEFORE its get announced. Or Putin tells Medvedyev whom to appoint. However Dvorkowichand and Sechin were not mentioned

They forget there were as, or more, competent leaders before Gorbachev and Yeltsin fucked up everything.

Like whom?


As for Russians, recently many opinion polls were done by  VISICOM, Levada and you know what: Russians want stability (socio-economical) and better salaries. Are proud form current political and military status.  Shit wasnt it exactly what Putin's break-thru program is about?

Russian space chief vows to find “full name” of technician who caused ISS leak

Sabotage is what everyone is whispering , the reason for the leak.. it turns out ,that it was
an illegal activity done by a technician ,what caused the leak..  and later try to hide his crime
with glue..  



https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/09/russian-space-chief-vows-to-find-full-name-of-technician-who-caused-iss-leak/?comments=1


It could have caused a major accident in Space.. And when you have sabotage , this goes to poor supervision ,
poor leadership , poor recruiting of staff, poor motivation.. Is called I N C O M P E T E N C E.. of the Russian
Government and a major problem in quality controls .

To fire a technician will not fix Russia space program.. you need Putin out of office ,because he is the number 1
incompetent and reducing the Space budget in half , and wasting Russian budget in meaningless Sports Olympics
and celebrations of Russian past glories... should be seen as treason to Russia.

That website have the most anti Russian crowd i have ever witness ever , Russia is corrupt , Russia this or that..
But it sucks when i have to agree with them that Putin needs to get the hell out of Presidency of Russia ,in order for Russia to take off.. albeit for the different reasons.. They believe Russia problem is "Putin Corruption" that somehow he steal the money.. but is not corruption. but incompetence instead , lack of leadership of Putin and pure ignorance ,on how crucial ,how critical is Russia to lead in space in order to stop the the propaganda of US ,that the world cannot exist without them. and make Russia a leading nation again in space.. as soviets did it.
Is pathetic that Soviets had a more ambitions program back in the 60s ,70s and 80s ,than Russia Federation today.

This new discovery in soyuz ,should shed some light with Pronton Problems.. British and American space agencies are in a cold war vs Russia and will have plenty of reasons to find ways to sabotage Russia space program from the inside.. Industrial sabotage.. this is an old term and a common tactic used by the west on its enemies.. as an example Iran nuclear reactor ,some time ago ,experience problems , and with Russia help they managed to find the source of the problem.. basically ,they bought mechanical parts from europe , that under closer inspection and dismantling of them ,turned to be rigged ,to sabotage the nuclear reactor of iran.. they found the malicious hardware and replaced it.

The interesting question is.. if the Russian Government cannot control ,quality controls and sabotage properly in one of their most important Business then what makes anyone believe ,they can monitor properly their military defense industry too.. This should send some light about why Russia experience so much problems in their Planes and hellicopters that crash so frequently and also Proton rockets problems.. the quality issues, is a supervision issue ,that goes all the way to the top office in Russia ,that is the Presidency.. You recruit poor leadership managers ,then they will setup poor working environment with poor supervision. If employees of a Company are doing sabotage.. is because their supervisors and managers did not detected their criminal behavior on time and did not setup the correct security.

Vann7 wrote:.... you need Putin out of office...

I expected​ this part to be on paragraph 3 as usual but you moved it up to number 2.

Question: who do you think should replace him? I mean he will be retiring at some point but who is The Chosen One worthy of accomplishing your goals?

I am really curious about the name so don't keep us in the dark.

PapaDragon wrote:

Vann7 wrote:.... you need Putin out of office...

I expected​ this part to be on paragraph 3 as usual but you moved it up to number 2.

Question: who do you think should replace him? I mean he will be retiring at some point but who is The Chosen One worthy of accomplishing your goals?

I am really curious about the name so don't keep us in the dark.

You seriously read more than one line of vann's posts ?

Isos wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

Vann7 wrote:.... you need Putin out of office...

I expected​ this part to be on paragraph 3 as usual but you moved it up to number 2.

Question: who do you think should replace him? I mean he will be retiring at some point but who is The Chosen One worthy of accomplishing your goals?

I am really curious about the name so don't keep us in the dark.

You seriously read more than one line of vann's posts ?

Not really, I just know that word "Putin" will pop up before paragraph 3

Isos wrote:You seriously read more than one line of vann's posts ?

Of course, but only out of a morbid sense of curiosity...  

Seriously though, this hole in the Soyuz module is clearly an act of deliberate sabotage. The location of the hole was apparently covered in decorative fabric (according to the RT article) which would need to be peeled back to gain access, and given that the surface isn't flat, its extremely doubtful that a hole would ever need to be drilled in this location to secure a fitting to the bulkhead.  

I'm surprised it has taken this long for anyone to admit the obvious, as there is no way a neat circular hole (with adjacent tooling marks from a slipped drill bit) could be mistaken for a hole created by a micro-meteorite (that would leave a jagged exit hole).  I assume Roscosmos was trying to figure out how to handle it publically.  Or maybe it was Evil Putin covering his tracks by hiding his drill and ordering the Novichok poisoning of any witnesses....

Big_Gazza wrote:

Isos wrote:You seriously read more than one line of vann's posts ?

Of course, but only out of a morbid sense of curiosity...  

Seriously though, this hole in the Soyuz module is clearly an act of deliberate sabotage. The location of the hole was apparently covered in decorative fabric (according to the RT article) which would need to be peeled back to gain access, and given that the surface isn't flat, its extremely doubtful that a hole would ever need to be drilled in this location to secure a fitting to the bulkhead.  .............

Never blame sabotage first with Roskosmos when incompetence is always more logical explanation:

https://ria.ru/space/20180903/1527705864.html

http://theduran.com/leak-on-the-iss-becomes-a-matter-of-controversy/

....
Right now, the leading theory comes from an unnamed source at Energia, which told the Russian news agency RIA Novosti that “[t]he hole was made on the ground” and that “[t]he person responsible for the act of negligence has been identified”.

Another anonymous source confirmed that the hole was accidentally drilled by a worker at Energia, who decided to hide their mistake with a seal and decorative fabric instead of reporting it.

For two months, the gamble paid off. Their patchy solution even managed to pass the spacecraft’s pressurisation tests before it was launched into space to meet up with the ISS. But then, the seal began to leak.

“[Once in orbit], the glue dried and was squeezed out, opening the hole,” the second source told RIA Novosti.

Repairing the hole has been neither simple nor straightforward, and the problem may have even caused a few cracks between Moscow and Houston.....

In order for people to assume that sabotage was involved Roskosmos will have to develop track record of reliability first.

As it stands now incompetence has proven to be cause of every single problem so far, from Fobos-Grunt to Angosat fiasco. I doubt this will be any different.

PapaDragon wrote:In order for people to assume that sabotage was involved Roskosmos will have to develop track record of reliability first.

As it stands now incompetence has proven to be cause of every single problem so far, from Fobos-Grunt to Angosat fiasco. I doubt this will be any different.

...except that Soyuz has proved to me extremely reliable.  The only problems I can think of were issues with some pyrotechnic bolts to firing and causing delays on inter-module separations on a few Soyuz re-entries.

Agree 100% with FG and Angosat however.  They were simply disgraceful. I'd also add the Coronas-Photon fiasco as well... less than 1 year of operation because some idiot didn't properly account for illumination cycle and didn't provide an adequate battery charging capability...

PapaDragon wrote:In order for people to assume that sabotage was involved Roskosmos will have to develop track record of reliability first.

As it stands now incompetence has proven to be cause of every single problem so far, from Fobos-Grunt to Angosat fiasco. I doubt this will be any different.

Energia are signalling they consider this to be deliberate sabotage...

The internal commission of the RSC Energia, investigating the reasons for the opening of the Soyuz MS-09 spacecraft, believes that someone specially organized the air leak, a source in the rocket and space industry told RIA Novosti.

Such a formulation is based on the fact that inside the "Union" no action is taken to drill a shell with a thickness of two millimeters and if someone used a drill, this was done intentionally.

As explained by the source, the Soyuz ships are piece production, the assembly is carried out manually, so often the details are adjusted to each other already on the spot, for example with a file. But the drill is not used at all, since all holes are made by extruding molds.

Earlier another source said that the commission had studied the documents from production, but did not find any mention of any work in the ship that could have caused the hole to appear. In this connection, two main versions of the incident are considered. Either the expert wanted to carry out some work in the ship that is not foreseen by the design documentation, and the master who was supposed to control it, went with him to collusion and did not record any records about it. Or it could be a single person who specifically entered the ship.

Hmm... no assembly work requires the use of a drill... so why was one used, and why was there no record of it in the manufacturing deviations list?

This doesn't smell like incompetence to me. Being a manned vehicle, I'd expect only fully certified technicians would be allowed anywhere near them.

My theory is that this is an operation by an organised crime element, probably with Ukrainians as the paymaster. Stranger things have happened...

full article

PapaDragon wrote:

Vann7 wrote:.... you need Putin out of office...

I expected​ this part to be on paragraph 3 as usual but you moved it up to number 2.

Question: who do you think should replace him? I mean he will be retiring at some point but who is The Chosen One worthy of accomplishing your goals?

I am really curious about the name so don't keep us in the dark.

Anyone that understand Leadership what is really about ..how Russia needs to compete with American
most influential business and Anyone that dont cut the Russian space budget in half..and instead increase it and that stop wasting Russia Budget in temporary distractions like Sports and victory parades and celebrations of past glories. or financing veterans pensions that not even are Russian citizens and live abroad.

In more space news...
A new angle surface of the sabotage of the Soyuz.... now they suspecting of NASA astronauts..

(is on spanish RT.. could not find the English version ,but it will show up sooner or later)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4MhgedFxKQ

Russia asked for the mental medical history of the Astronauts ,on board of the ISS..
and NASA rejected the request.. What is clear is that it was sabotage , since meteors dont drill things with precision.. and what is not clear is who did it and whether it was the technicians of Soyus or if it was a rebellious Astronaut who did it at the orders of Dark forces in Washington DC..  Maybe it was internal sabotage inside the
ISS ,and the goal was not to autodestroy the ISS ,but to provoke Russia instead . Perhaps some forces ,that dont want Russia and US astronauts to continue cooperating in space. Remember how Mcain ,tried to cancel the buying
of Rockets from Russia. even if that hurts them too.. Honestly the more i think about this. Russia government needs to forbid any space walk to Russian cosmonauts again.. if they strongly Suspect a NASA astronaut did the
sabotage.. Because it could be done to Russian space suits too . when relations are so bad ,and you have people without morals and values in control of US foreign policy , anything is possible. they are capable of killing Russian cosmonauts ,even if after it , Russia cancels cooperation..just for the sake of humiliating Russia , so they get astronauts Permanently floating in space.. after thinking more about this.. if Russia have strong suspicious NASA did it.. then should avoid sending any more Russians to the ISS after this.. and recruit Europeans instead. western dark forces.. will not dare to attack Europeans hired by Russia ,to replace their cosmonauts ..for the major rift in relations . Russia should push for an independent new space station away from NASA ,with CHina ,Japan and other Friendly European states.

Vann7 wrote:............
In more space news...
A new angle surface of the sabotage of the Soyuz.... now they suspecting of NASA astronauts..

(is on spanish RT.. could not find the English version ,but it will show up sooner or later)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4MhgedFxKQ

Russia asked for the mental medical history of the Astronauts ,on board of the ISS..
and NASA rejected the request.....

I heard about this and hoped it wasn't true but it looks like there is no depths that Roscosmos is not willing to reduce itself to under management of Trampoline Man.  

So they are trying to say that NASA astronauts got out of their beds one night, snuck out to docked Soyuz and drilled a hole in it without anyone noticing?

Does Trampoline Man and his gang of idiot man-babies actually think that anyone with double-digit number of brain cell would believe this fairytale?

I am glad that NASA told them to stick this request where the sun don't shine but I hoped they would make bigger spectacle of it in order to teach those incompetent pathetic honorless Russian loses a lesson.

Is this what Russian space program has been reduced to? Korolev and Gagarin are spinning in their graves at orbital velocities as we speak.

No dignity, no responsibility, no honor. Absolutely repugnant.

Sad pathetic clowns in a burning circus...

Vann7 wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

Vann7 wrote:.... you need Putin out of office...

I expected​ this part to be on paragraph 3 as usual but you moved it up to number 2.
Question: who do you think should replace him? I mean he will be retiring at some point but who is The Chosen One worthy of accomplishing your goals?

I am really curious about the name so don't keep us in the dark.

Anyone that understand Leadership what is really about ..how Russia needs to compete with American
most influential business and Anyone that dont cut the Russian space budget in half..and instead increase it and that stop wasting Russia Budget in temporary distractions like Sports and victory parades and celebrations of past glories. or financing veterans pensions that not even are Russian citizens and live abroad. ....

So basically you got no one?

Let me run down options for you: commies, ultra-nationalists or liberals. First group already screwed the pooch several times, second isn't capable of planning further than 5 minutes ahead and third would be doing fire-sale of the whole country.

Ones left are current folks but they would be doing same thing they are doing now. Why? Because in real life you plan and perform within boundaries of reality, not other way around.

PapaDragon wrote:

So basically you got no one?

Let me run down options for you: commies, ultra-nationalists or liberals. First group already screwed the pooch several times, second isn't capable of planning further than 5 minutes ahead and third would be doing fire-sale of the whole country.

Ones left are current folks but they would be doing same thing they are doing now. Why? Because in real life you plan and perform within boundaries of reality, not other way around.

Basically Russia have no hopes.. Putin is bad ,but the soviets are totally bad.. If Communist gets in power,
will isolate Russia again from Europe.. and nationalize the bank... maybe it will be worth trying  ,because you
know that Putin will not accomplish anything . His totally Passive policy of waiting for "better times " doesnt work.
Lavrov told recently.. that the world will be a better place as soon Americans gets tired of trying to change Russia.
So Putin and LAvrov are waiting for Americans to get tired of punching Russia in the face..  but they will never get tired of doing something that always produce some results.. and humilliates Russia too.. Sanctions have damaged Russia and in Syria , Russia have lots soldiers and the war in Syria cost Russia ~$ 500 millions per year more or less. So all that the west needs to do ,is start another frontline.. lets say Serbia.. and you will see Russia on its knees.. with Putin beggin his American partners to be nice .. honestly it will be better the soviets than Putin.
Because you know that Putin will not do anything to stop for real the western System.. So if we lucky , the soviets will finally seek to retake the leadership in space ,soviets once had ,and start an industrial revolution in Russia. and arrest for Putin for incompetent. For holding Russia progress for so long. The Navalny liberals needs to a lifetime jail with forced labor ,in a cold dungeon in Siberia.. and Zhirinovsky will be the opposite of Putin ,will try to solve all with force..  really no idea , but honestly i can't stand anymore Putin ultra passive  outdated policy with the west.. waiting and waiting for their western "partners" to change..instead of breaking the influence US have over Europe and the world ,by reinventing a new Russia with a modern innovative business economy.

Russia needs someone like Elon Musk.. as leader.. Someone who wants to lead the world innovation.
or like Jack MA the richest man in China , people with major business ambitions and with major
self confidence in their capabilities. Putin have no ambitions other than a "stable Russia"..
and becomes leaders in agriculture and sports..

Vann7 wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

So basically you got no one?

Let me run down options for you: commies, ultra-nationalists or liberals. First group already screwed the pooch several times, second isn't capable of planning further than 5 minutes ahead and third would be doing fire-sale of the whole country.

Ones left are current folks but they would be doing same thing they are doing now. Why? Because in real life you plan and perform within boundaries of reality, not other way around.

Basically Russia have no hopes.. Putin is bad ,but the soviets are totally bad.. If Communist gets in power,
will isolate Russia again from Europe.. and nationalize the bank... maybe it will be worth trying  ,because you
know that Putin will not accomplish anything . His totally Passive policy of waiting for "better times " doesnt work.
Lavrov told recently.. that the world will be a better place as soon Americans gets tired of trying to change Russia.
So Putin and LAvrov are waiting for Americans to get tired of punching Russia in the face..  but they will never get tired of doing something that always produce some results.. and humilliates Russia too.. Sanctions have damaged Russia and in Syria , Russia have lots soldiers and the war in Syria cost Russia ~$ 500 millions per year more or less. So all that the west needs to do ,is start another frontline.. lets say Serbia.. and you will see Russia on its knees.. with Putin beggin his American partners to be nice .. honestly it will be better the soviets than Putin.
Because you know that Putin will not do anything to stop for real the western System.. So if we lucky , the soviets will finally seek to retake the leadership in space ,soviets once had ,and start an industrial revolution in Russia. and arrest for Putin for incompetent. For holding Russia progress for so long. The Navalny liberals needs to a lifetime jail with forced labor ,in a cold dungeon in Siberia.. and Zhirinovsky will be the opposite of Putin ,will try to solve all with force..  really no idea , but honestly i can't stand anymore Putin ultra passive  outdated policy with the west.. waiting and waiting for their western "partners" to change..instead of breaking the influence US have over Europe and the world ,by reinventing a new Russia with a modern innovative business economy.

Russia needs someone like Elon Musk.. as leader.. Someone who wants to lead the world innovation.
or like Jack MA the richest man in China , people with major business ambitions and with major
self confidence in their capabilities. Putin have no ambitions other than a "stable Russia"..
and becomes leaders in agriculture and sports..

Elon Musk or Jack Ma is your answer for better presidents
Elon mUsk is in trouble if you cared to read up.

Also Vann, presidents are not as powerful as you think they are. You're hoping for a benevolent dictator that can do no wrong. No state has ever produced such a person.
Putin really is one of the best if not the best for Russia. If Russian space programs are as bad as you think they are in, leadership from the state should be the last thing on your mind. Start with Rocosmos heads all the way down to the employees, please.