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    Anti-Putin Discussion

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    Odin of Ossetia

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Odin of Ossetia on Sun May 06, 2018 4:36 am




    Putin's "soft power" is giving Ukraine free or heavily discounted natural gas, only to later for that country to turn against Russia. Also he treated Milosevic and Qaddafi as expandable pawns. Schroeder even got a well paid job in Russia, after co-participating in the bombing of Yugoslavia back in 1999.

    Putin's "hard power" is supporting a minority supported maniac like Assad in Syria. It is a one big trap over there. Why is Russia pouring troops to that country? Also in some areas on the border with China, Russian side of the border is "protected" by actual mannequins because apparently there are no border guards available.

    Putin's "economic power" is the richest 1% in Russia own 97% of the country's wealth, or the third largest wealth inequality in the world.


    Will Russia survive Putin?


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    GarryB

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 06, 2018 6:43 am

    I just wonder if people calling Putin weak because he didnt start war are ready to die? or at least have no supermarkets open with supplies and water? doctors and drug stores? luxuries like clean clothes or electricity I wont mention

    Agreed... I am just an armchair warrior from the south pacific, thousands of kms from any real conflict, but I am not stupid enough to think war is some adventure where the good win and the bad lose and are punished... war is vastly more random than that...

    A single Tu-160 with dozen Kh-101 (conventional warhead) hitting private residences of French, UK, Israeli and US highest rank officers would make sure they newer again commit provocations like they do in Syria.

    Of course that is very true... the only problem is that the west would then respond with their own attack on the hierarchy in Russia and guess what happens then?

    Both sides realise the other is only going to escalate and a small measured response leaves you open to the threat that the next attack the enemy launch might be an all out strike to take out your ability to hit them... which logically means you must hit them with everything you have before they do the same to you and guess what genius... WWIII and most of the first and second world according to the racist western experts are obliterated... yeah... Putin must be mad to not be doing that...

    Such cruise missiles strikes doesn't even have to kill antibody, just demonstration of ability and willingness to impose direct consequences in form of personal property destruction or potential of death will dissuade those officers from perusing confrontation with Russia or it's allays.

    So what you are saying is that Russia needs to do something to shock the west into realising they actually mean what they are saying and are not just bluffing... why not unilaterally withdraw from a treaty the west thinks is important... how about the Chem and bio agreements... it seems the west is not giving up its programmes so Russia can spend a billion dollars and create a very public branch of its government dedicated to eradicating enemy forces by ethnicity... lets call it the LGBT bomb... hahahaha.

    On another hand they know Syrians and Russians are appeasing pansies and they can bomb them without repercussions, so they are doing exactly that.

    And those Iranian SAMs they supposedly attacked and destroyed the other week... do you think it they really were SAMs or do you think they might have been SSMs... but what would Iran have SSMs in Syria for?

    Israel would not have taken a huge risk to destroy Iranian SAMs, but Iranian SSMs are another story.

    Dem Jews are not crazy... they don't attack Syria for fun... they aren't the nice guys either though.

    [quoteAs if he was really the tyrant that the NATO hate
    propaganda paints him to be.   So basically you are part of another collection of Russia haters but pissing on it from a different direction.   [/quote]

    Yeah... they don't understand this tyrant who does not pardon the people they demand they pardon like Vagina Riot, or some criminal oligarch that stole millions or billions from working Russians and didn't pay their taxes.... surely the courts system in Russia is directly controlled by Putin... the puppet master... all strings in Russia lead to him...


    1) i will have reduced to zero , $0.00 the money invested in sports.. fuck sports..and privatize it all..
    to people he can trust..

    Hahaha, yeah ignore an important soft power... there is money to be made in sports, both domestically and internationally.

    Actually healthy and team building too.

    1.5)Privatize Russia Energy Industry ,sold it to Germany and France with the condition they can't sell it
    back.. that way it can't be sanctioned.. and with the money won with the sale ,invest it in space or military or both.

    Fucking fifth columnist... sell Russias energy wealth to Germany and France? What the fuck for?

    Keep selling it to the dumb fuckers for slightly below what anyone else can sell it for and they will keep buying something that gives you a regular income... selling it to Germany and France means they make all the fucking money and you just provide the raw material like some dumb fuck third world country selling coal to European countries who turn it into diamonds...

    So instead of investing in sport and the people of Russia you want to give away energy resources and piss money away on space exploration... nice.

    Putin's "soft power" is giving Ukraine free or heavily discounted natural gas, only to later for that country to turn against Russia.

    And if he had charged full price then the Ukraine would only have turned sooner and instead of 2010+ that Russia needed to look at replacing Ukrainian components in their systems they would have had to have done it in the 1990s when they had even less money and were spending it on lots of other things like reducing the size of the military.

    Shifting the cost of Russian independence from the former soviet states from recently to the 1990s would have made things much worse for Russia, more expensive when they had no money anyway... the recovery would have been slower and less effective and things would be rather worse... and Russia would now be in less of a position to oppose the west the way it is.

    Also he treated Milosevic and Qaddafi as expandable pawns.

    They misread the wind and painted themselves into corners they could not get out of... hardly Putins fault.

    Qaddafi and Saddam and Assad were all sucking up to the west when the west turned on them... Assad remained in power only by the skin of his teeth, because the west had already showed its true colours... you might argue that Putin should have anticipated that, but where is Assads responsibility too?

    Schroeder even got a well paid job in Russia, after co-participating in the bombing of Yugoslavia back in 1999.

    Did Putin give him the job personally?

    Putin's "hard power" is supporting a minority supported maniac like Assad in Syria.

    Even now America is realising that while they have spent all this time demonising Assad there really is no alternative... the opposition to Assad is in tiny pieces all over the place many of which are no better than ISIS, that could not form any sort of structure to govern the entire country or even more than the boundaries of the towns they occupy.

    Why is Russia pouring troops to that country?

    What makes you think Russians are pouring into Syria?

    Also in some areas on the border with China, Russian side of the border is "protected" by actual mannequins because apparently there are no border guards available.

    Along the US border with Mexico there is talk of a wall but mostly it is just a fence and in large areas the only defence is some local people who have armed themselves and go out mexican hunting each night... dummies could be just as effective...

    Putin's "economic power" is the richest 1% in Russia own 97% of the country's wealth, or the third largest wealth inequality in the world.

    Yes, Russia has probably become more western than many western countries... the difference is that the leader of the country has said a goal is to do something about the wealth distribution within the country... something you will never hear from the US or EU... was it under Putin that certain people raped and raided state owned companies and pinched pensions and fired lots of people and then onsold anything left to make maximum profit.... that is what the people with the money and power to do it did in the 1990s.... you know.... the communists did it... they were the only ones with the money and contacts to do it... communists and criminals of course had the power and contacts.... and people in the west don't understand why democracy is a dirty word in Russia and the Commies come second to Putin and the so called democrats come nowhere.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 06, 2018 7:11 am

    We know Putin is doing a good job for the Russian people when we see what the western media says about him compared with the way Russians vote.
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    ZoA

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  ZoA on Sun May 06, 2018 11:11 am

    kvs wrote:
    You just left the reservation of credibility.   If your smear had any validity then Russia would be exactly like Ukraine, an oligarch banana republic.  
    Yeltsin basically achieved this state of rot by 1999.  It was Putin who cleaned it up and increased real wages by over 500%.   Of course, you
    "everyone is a critic" experts use your expert gut feelings to claim that Putin did not do enough.  As if he was really the tyrant that the NATO hate
    propaganda paints him to be.   So basically you are part of another collection of Russia haters but pissing on it from a different direction.  

    Putin the "appeaser" would never have taken back Crimea and launched the campaign to restore Syria.   He would have let NATO declare a
    no fly zone over Syria and gang rape it like they did Libya.

    Problem is you people cant differentiate Putin from Russia. Putin is not Russia, Putin is just another formal leader of Russia just like Yeltsin, Gorbachev, Andropov, Brezjnev, Khrushchev, Stalin, Lenin, shit load of Romanovs and so on. If I compare him to those people he is mediocrity. Sure, he is definitely far better then Yeltsin (shit slinging chimpanzee would be better then Yeltsin), significantly better then Gorbachev, roughly on the level of Brezjnev or Nikita, worse then Andropov, Stalin or Lenin. Issue here is Putin fanboys cant bare the criticism of Putin, and conflux criticism of Putin ans criticism of Russia as if those two are the same. My advice is for you to dispense with such cults of personality and focus on the policy. Putin's policy is not all that smart. He is appeaser in international relations, and liberal on domestic economic issues, and this makes him less effective in defending Russian interest then he could be had he pursued more competent policies.
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    Hole

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Hole on Sun May 06, 2018 12:38 pm

    1. Assad is the elected president of Syria. He is supported be the celar majority of the syrian people, even the terrorist supporting scum in Salafist-Arabia or Qatar admits that.

    2. Russia has around 4.000 troops stationed in Syria, from an armed forces of 1 million man. This is not "pooring troops" in. And the war experience is more worth than thousend maneuvers.

    3. For me Ukraine is part of Russia. It always was. Like the rest of the "republics" until some bold-headed guy and hit stooge with the mustach came along, draw lines on maps and invented names. But the will for reunification must come from the people of the smaller part. If tomorrow ten millione people in Kiev and Odessa and elsewhere would act like the people in Sewastopol, than you can go ahead.

    4. Israel violates the Libanese airspace all the time. The use it as cover for their air attacks. Which are just destractions. All western airstrikes an Syria killed around 500 people. In the last two weeks in the battle for Yarmouk some 200 syrian soldiers were killed. Just for comparison.

    5. Russia wants a multipolar world, where every country abides to international law. If it starts shooting around cruise missiles, just will some politician is bored, when it would meddle in other countries affairs, without being asked for, than it would act like the western block. Russia has to keep it´s patience and lead by excample.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun May 06, 2018 1:09 pm

    ZoA wrote:Putin is not  Russia

    True, however for many Russians AFAIK he is.


    Putin is just another formal leader of Russia just like Yeltsin, Gorbachev, Andropov, Brezjnev, Khrushchev, Stalin, Lenin, shit load of Romanovs and so on. If I compare him to those people he is mediocrity.

    Can country have an informal leader? like whom?



    roughly on the level of Brezjnev or Nikita, worse then Andropov, Stalin or Lenin
    lol1 lol1 lol1  sorry had to clean keyboard as I spilled coffee reading this lol1 lol1 lol1

    Me thinks you never tried to learn history of Russia. Or learned from Ekcho of Moscow/Voice of America. But ad rem: how it is that you outside Russia know he is mediocre and 77% of Russians voted for him?



    Putin's policy is not all that smart. He is appeaser in international relations, and liberal on domestic economic issues, and this makes him less effective in defending Russian interest then he could be had he pursued more competent policies.

    OK, tell me now please what would YOU do on his place? he is mediocre how would you do to be brilliant?

    Vann7

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Vann7 on Mon May 07, 2018 1:48 am



    ZoA wrote:
    Putin is not  Russia


    Putin is not Russia ,but he is the one who choose the Economic Minister of Russia and the ones who significantly
    influence the way the Russian budget will be invested in Russia. It was Putin who Put Kudrin in charge of Russia economy. So you can't say he have nothing to do with the way Russia develops.. he is the ultimate chief of Russia
    and he can pressure the entire Government to move in any direction he wants.  That Said... It was Putin idea ,
    to turn Russia into a monopoly of Energy and develop Russia economy for the most part in the same way Third World Countries in Africa does.. that is Commodities.. Low Risk Business like OIL and Natural Gas and Agriculture and mining.
    that is easy ,low risk business... and then since he came to power in 2000 ,thats all he have been doing in developing Russia.. do the LAZY more easier path and allow Americans to steal the show and dominate and lead the world in
    innovative Technology and Entertainment and in Space too..  So Putin and Lavrov complains almost every day of
    how Unfair are the Americans with Russia ,how unfair is the west.. but he don't do anything about it... Continues to sponsor the American System ,by following it , instead of fighting it.. Just creating a new banking System is not enough..as he have been hoping to do with BRICS.. he needs a entire new system .. or at least ones that covers not only banking system. but also an alternative to American technology industry ,and an alternative to NATO too..
    and show a clear leadership in Space  , and not just say happy with taxi to the ISS.   Taking the path of least resistance doing the easier things with their nation development, is never going to help Russia to defeat US system.
    All that Russia needs to do to stop US is become a much more successful and more popular nation ,with their civilian business. Thats when more and more nations in Europe will notice Russia is much better and will start moving away from the American Financial ,Political and Business world.. but before they can do that....Russia needs to have a system already working...that is comparable if not Better than the west.. new Visa/mastercard. New United Nations ,New internet ,new IT /technology world..new banking system.. All those things can be done in an alliance with China
    and this will allow Europe to no longer fear American sanctions ,if they decide to pull the plug with US. Japan is also very friendly to Russia.. and Russia can even influence Japan away from US.  This is what Putin needs a Strategy
    to defeat the American empire.. but doing the same things over and over and allow the west to lead the world development in to the future ,is Putin's biggest mistake.  To not understand how Americans civilian Business (soft power) are used like a weapon ,to Influence the world and create alliances against Russia.

    This is why i don't understand all this hate against Russia central bank.. ignoring Putin's short vision for
    Russia future is the real big problem. Raising the interest rates ,lowering them.. giving more loans or less..
    Nationalizing the Russian bank...Building more pipelines or less. Is IRRELEVANT..!!!!!  Nothing of that will fix
    the real source of all Russia Problems.. and what is the root of Russia problems??????

    That RUssia is part of an Unfair System..created by Anglos and Jews.. and that Putin don't
    understand how to counter it... and there is a hint.. is not only about Banks domination..
    but about World Leadership instead. Nations that leads the world Into the Future
    is the ones that every other nation in the world will follow... Nations that only focus
    in SPorts medals and in Energy , and building a powerful military will not get the
    attention of the most developed countries.


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    GarryB

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Mon May 07, 2018 3:02 am

    OK, tell me now please what would YOU do on his place? he is mediocre how would you do to be brilliant?

    It is easy to rule in your mind, because things have already happened and you have seen the results so you can claim you would not have made the same mistakes.

    Of course you can say if Russia did not sign off on the no fly zones over Libya everything would be fine now, but that is assuming the west is stupid... if they couldn't get a UNSC stamp for their no fly zone they probably would have done it anyway... when was the last time international law stopped them doing what they wanted...

    So how do you tell what was a mistake without knowing what sort of escalation it might have caused if you did something else?

    Doing something different might have led to something even worse for all we know.


    Putin is not Russia ,but he is the one who choose the Economic Minister of Russia and the ones who significantly

    And why do you think that Russia is so rich and powerful it can ignore the international economy and do what it wants the way the US does?

    Do you really think the Russians can do anything they like and get away with it?

    Right now they have an alternative to SWIFT, and they are at the point where they are probably strong enough to do a lot of things they would have been crushed for doing even just 10 years ago.

    Putin is the reason they are in that position... but go on whining about it...
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    ZoA

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  ZoA on Mon May 07, 2018 4:24 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:

    Putin is just another formal leader of Russia just like Yeltsin, Gorbachev, Andropov, Brezjnev, Khrushchev, Stalin, Lenin, shit load of Romanovs and so on. If I compare him to those people he is mediocrity.

    Can country have an informal leader? like whom?

    Of course. This is why we have entire array of of terms that describe powers and influences that operate beyond formal leadership. What do you thing terms like "gray eminence", "power behind the throne, "deep politics" designate? You must be quite politicly inexperienced and naive to even ask that question. Do you really think gutless maggots like Trump, Macron or May have real power in their countries?


    Putin's policy is not all that smart. He is appeaser in international relations, and liberal on domestic economic issues, and this makes him less effective in defending Russian interest then he could be had he pursued more competent policies.

    OK, tell me now please what would YOU do on his place? he is mediocre how would you do to be brilliant?

    No need to ask me. He has plenty of very competent adwisors loyal to Russia that are begging him literally for years to stop with stupid liberal economic polices. For example recently siloviki faction that asked him to establish this government:
    http://johnhelmer.org/?p=17683

    Instead in all appearances he decided to ignore this good advice and instead consult traitor Kudrin how to form his next government.

    But ad rem: how it is that you outside Russia know he is mediocre and 77% of Russians voted for him?

    People are still traumatised form Yeltsin years, and they compare Putin to him, or utterly moronic western formal leaders. They forget there were as, or more, competent leaders before Gorbachev and Yeltsin fucked up everything.
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    Hole

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Hole on Mon May 07, 2018 10:19 pm

    And who decides if someone is capable or not? You?

    Vann7

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Vann7 on Mon May 07, 2018 11:47 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    And why do you think that Russia is so rich and powerful it can ignore the international economy and do what it wants the way the US does?

    Do you really think the Russians can do anything they like and get away with it?

    Right now they have an alternative to SWIFT, and they are at the point where they are probably strong enough to do a lot of things they would have been crushed for doing even just 10 years ago.

    Putin is the reason they are in that position... but go on whining about it...


    Is not about Money GarryB.. already told this to you.. Is not about Military power either.. Is not about Disconnecting
    Russia from the west.. i never said that..  Reason why the communist party ,makes Putin to look like a genius.. in comparison ,to what they promote.. a return of the mistakes of the things the Soviet Union did..

    I Already told you ,that Russia/Putin did the right thing in Ukraine and Syria.. when its comes to Re-action to
    the conflicts ,once they started. So im not questioning Putin capabilities to minimize damages to a broken car..
    and get a broken car to continue working.. What im questioning is Putin Ability to understand Why Russia is
    not respected in the world.... Obama even told it...and made jokes about it.. What does Russia make? told Obama..
    to a discourse aimed at the international community. Obviously Obama knew Russia produce excellent second to none military hardware ,nuclear reactors ,missiles and Space Rockets. he knew that.. But still Why Obama was asking What does Russia make?  he was speaking about Russia civilian Business.. that export NOTHING ,that the world really needs.. understand?  

    So i will trade any day , a Russia with 10% GDP economy growth by year ,selling Energy and potatoes to records levels in the world..to third world nations. For a 1% GDP growth Russia Economy exporting Modern Innovative technology to Europe that the world likes and nobody else have.. So is not about numbers , not about quantity ,but about QUALITY... Not about Numbers.. but about having the attention of the world ,specially the west in future development  ..understand?  

    Middle east if you look at Saudi Arabia ,Qatar ,UAE.. their nations ,most of it looks like is all ,
    at the level of Sochi at least.. it looks stunning their roads and buildings ,airports with gold ,superior
    that anything the west have.. but do the middle east have real influence to the west? NO.. other than
    selling something to them no.. the opinion about them ,is always the same , Third world nations with money
    with luxury but a poor quality of life and poor influence. nobody wants to be closer to Saudi Arabia or Qatar..
    or UAE.. they produce nothing too.. so nobody will like to study there..

    The quality of most of Russia economy ,is at the same level of AFrican third world nations.. Why?
    Because Russia economy , largely depends on Business that don't require brains..business than even the most primitive outdated nations can do.. like Energy business ,Agriculture,Mining , Roads and housing.. and tourism..

    Russia have an energy industry..and so NIGERIA too.. and most third world nations in the world.
    Russia have an agriculture industry.. and So NIGERIA too.. and most third world nations in the world.
    Russia have a mining industry.. and so Nigeria and most third world nations..
    Russia promotes heavily sports like religion..and so every other third world nation too..

    The difference is that Russia is a world major exporter of top military hardware and also export nuclear reactors too.

    Yet Obama told ... to the international community.. what does Russia make ? THis is because none of the things
    that Russia build are meaningful in any way ,shape or form for the average civilian Society.. Understand?

    So no , im not saying that Putin needs to start a war with NATO ,creating a no fly zone in SYria.. or that Putin need
    to be Stronger with its military.. NO..      What im saying.. is that Putin needs to be STRONG on Business that nobody else can do/ or only a couple of nations  can... for being too difficult to do ,for requiring Real Knowledge ,Intelligence and Scientific power.. with the Goal of making Russia a leader in the world.. in the things that really matter ,that people can use every day.. and will like to have.. understand?

    Said in another way.. If US  top technology giants from california.. abandoned US and moved to Russia to work for kremlin ,then US will lose in no time its world influence over the world.. and the only way they will have keep Europe on his orbit ,will be through terrorism.. with negative influence.. of economic sanctions ,CIA revolutions , invasions of US for regime change..  So US will not be able to hold its Empire.. if is not attractive anymore ,for no longer having a leadership in any business that matters for civilian society... that is US Empire ,their influence will collapse.. will have nothing to Influence the world anymore..People in Europe will see ,they no longer need to follow the American Empire system.. and will see Russia as a better nation.. UNDERSTAND?  

    So is not about being "Strong" or more intimidating ,with the military ,what Russia needs to be ...but about
    making Russia a Business Leader im the world that and export modern technology ,that can counter US business in the things they are more praised in the world .. understand??

    Oh noo.. Russia have no money for that.. yes they have.. but putin the ignorant  keep wasting money in Sports and Olympics.. and Victory parades and in charity for world war 2 veterans . and in promoting Russian past.
    They invested $52 billions dollars in Sochi Alone.. and about $12 billions in FIFA 2018.. and agree with a $250 billion super train to CHINA... Russia have a hell of a lot of money ,, that very few nations can pull from their ass..but Russia can do it..  while at the same time reducing the budget in things , that could allow Russia to truly Counter American Empire influence in the world.. like Space .  No

    So this is pure Lunacy , Putin's Vision of Russia... and if it is True ,that he will capitulate to the Americans with an even more mediocre dependent economy of the Americans.. turning Russia into a near vassal state of US for peace.. then that will not be Idiocy , but treason.. and will deserve a revolution.

    So this is all what im saying.. stop the waste of money in Bullshit sports and Olympics , and in Promoting the better times of Russia in the past , privatize its sports industry and government should sell its energy assets to Europe to friendly nations ,privatize it.. half Gazprom and Half Europe.. stop wasting money meaningless Trains to China ,and with the money saved ,invest the dam money in Business like an ambitious space program or in counter US technology giants in California.. thats is all that i want... Russia needs to counter American influence in the world.. nothing more and nothing less.. so thats when Putin will start to notice a change of tone of the west. when Russia interest will be
    respected..   Senator McAin wanted to sanction Russia space program and could not do it.. why ? Because Americans Respect and admire a lot Russia space program... So Putin already have the magic formula to counter American sanctions.. all that Putin needs to do.. is promote the development of Russia in a totally different way.. instead of commodities based economy , All Putin needs to focus is in promoting and economy that is a Fun Economy..things
    people truly respect and fascinates them.. this is Soft Power ,So Russia economic model ,should aim to hit very hard
    California Tech Giants not only compete but to Lead but also develop a very ambitious Space Program.. and not allow
    US to take the lead in space.

    i have to repeat myself so many times.. because people keep missing the whole thing . Russia in fact don't need
    to put more pressure on its economy ,to counter the US empire.. what it needs is A LEADER with Vision ,that instead
    of wasting the money in meaningless things that at best will promote Tourism.. he should invest the money in an Modern Industrial technology revolution.  And is not about inventing only ,since many inventions never are used..
    .but about developing a strong international business ,that switch Russia from a commodities exporter power to a innovative Technology exporter and the clear leader in Space.

    GarryB ...Why US and Soviet Union ,invested so many $$Trillions in their Space Program.. why so much money
    for just a ride to the stars ?  Because it was a RACE for INFLUENCE.. a race to Attract Europe and other developed
    nations to your Orbit.. thats why...


    So Putin needs to develop an Economy aimed 100% at Influencing Europe away of the American system.
    not with gas discounts ,but by drawing their attention away from TOP US tech  and space Industries business.
    By making Russia the most influential nation in the world..  and how you make a nation influential ? By doing
    things that draw the attention of the most developed nations in a major positive way.. thats how. Putin wants
    attention... he told the west don't listen us.. now they will listen right? Good.. then if Putin wants attention..
    that Russia interest in the world are Respected.. then is not with Hypersonic Missiles .that never will be used
    how he will get Respect ,but by Building equally amazing Civilian innovative Business ,that the west can match.
    If Putin invested as much energy as he does in Sport and in modernizing its military , into countering US tech Giants in California and US space program.. then long ago Russia space program will have landed with humans in the moon and mars and Russia having the only Space Tourism industry in the world ,with travels around the moon orbit and return..
    and all the world attention on Russia.. All Russia adversaries will be respecting Russia.. congratulating Russia and American companies in a fight to get closer to Russia.  Russia Not ignored anymore..  Russia interest respected..
    IF Russia was a highly influential nation to the west.. not even its nuclear weapons will be needed at all.. what a contradiction no?  Putin needs a very powerful military ,to counter its  abysmal influence with the west. But had Russia had Leadership. that is was leading the world development.. then Everyone will be seeking to become closer to Russia..
    and the US unipolar world ,disbanded.. and a multipolar world of  international law and respect for others will rule.


    Why Putin estabilization of Russia economy today to 1% or 3% or 5% of 10% , today or next month or year..
    why none of this really matter? Because all Putin achievements in Russia economy can be reversed over night
    with a new war ,Russia is forced to participate in defense of allies or with a new round of sanctions of Europe..
    If Americans manage to get Europe Fully aligned with them... lets say stop buying energy from Russia?
    then Russia will go bankrupt.. understand?  and they can do it.. look the baltics.. they so loyal to US ,that prefer
    to pay twice more for energy than abandoning US empire.

     So what really matters is What is Russia doing longterm to counter the American
    System , the American Business Influence over Europe.. this is what really matters.. Because as long Russia do nothing
    to counter US influence over Europe , then NATO will continue to exist..and the US sanctions will continue to damage
    Russia economy. and Russia security will be at major risk too..  So is not by "stabilizing" Russia economy ,how you "fix" Russia problems.. Because the root of the problem is not fixed.. that is US at war with Russia and Russia doing nothing to counter it.  neither Russia is doing anything to Influence Americans..that also can be influenced.. look at Russia space program. thats a fucking influence Russia have on Americans.. is probably the only thing Russia influence not only the US gov but also American society too.. but Putin the Great Ignorant don't take major advantage of this..
    To take this influence of Russia space program to a new level by making it far more ambitious long term than the American one...  Praising Putin for minimizing the Damages the US have done to Russia is not understanding the big problems Russia face.. Any other front line US opens on Russia as they did in ukraine and Syria ,lets say NATO attacks Serbia in same way they did to Syria.. could sink Russia economy ,and reverse all Putin gains. overnight. or US restarting the war in Ukraine forcing Russia to invade will sink Russia economy.. and Putin developed (fake) "Stability" will end . So in general Russia in reality is a very vulnerable weak nation today,(not as bad as the 90s. but still not strong enough to have a real independence) only because of its dependence on the western system that Putin did not counter for most its political life ,perhaps in the believe that Russia will be allowed to build energy pipelines to Europe in peace and make Russia a very rich nation without US opposing it . Rolling Eyes What History and life experiences is teaching Russia , is that Russia needs to be a True Independent Nation .. not only in politics,military but in Business too and that it can't allow US major influential business to continue dominating ,and Russia needs to lead
    in the world development.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Tue May 08, 2018 1:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Anti-putin discussion

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue May 08, 2018 1:00 am

    ZoA wrote:
    Do you really think gutless maggots like Trump, Macron or May have real power in their countries?


    Actually Trump does that's why so much voices agaisnt him form "international" oligarchs as he represents "american" oligarchs (check Satanovsky for details Smile
    Not sure who you cal gray eminences -there are always elites who rule. Official ruler is their representative. Was there any different thorough the history?




    No need to ask me. He has plenty of very competent adwisors loyal to Russia that are begging him literally for years to stop with stupid liberal economic polices.

    ekhm to you claim Putin is mediocre and some US blogger knows better how to rule Russia? Fairly strong statement. Even Russian internal commentators not really pro-Putin calim golikova or Medvedev are Putin's people and gosudarstvenniki (you might call them patriots)
    I have no doubt Rogozin is too but he is much better in field of propaganda then doing-things. That's why Borisov as deputy prime minister is important move. Other members of cabinet will be
    Siluannov (good accountant)
    Mutko (Putins dude) - organizer of Sochi infrastructure/ olympics


    Borisov (army, Putins dude, knows how to have things done)


    Kozak (GRU, Putins dude) - took care of Crimea and Caucasus.


    Gordeev (Putins dude, pretty good in organizing economy as you can see his curriculum as governor of Voronezh)  
    after wiki
    In 2012, the Voronezh Region in the rate of growth in industrial production took first place in the Russian Federation, in 2013, industrial production grew by 6.4% (in Russia - by 0.3%), the volume of agricultural production in the region increased by 9.1% , (in the country as a whole - by 6.2%) [11] , construction grew by 8.4% (in Russia by 1.5%).




    Akimov youngest (48 yo) - former govrnt of Kaluga

    http://archive.government.ru/eng/persons/207/
    https://www.rbth.com/articles/2009/04/29/290409_kaluga.html
    Not long ago, the Kaluga region was primarily associated with Konstantin Tsiolkovsky, a maverick scientist from the end of the last century who pioneered work on rockets. Now the Region has a reputation as one of Russia's hotspots for foreign investment thanks in part to an energetic public relations campaign and considerable tax incentives.
    The regional administration has attracted an investment portfolio of 36 agreements worth about 3bn euros ($4bn) and is in talks with new investors on projects worth an additional 2.5bn euros, said Kaluga deputy governor Maxim Akimov.

    oldish but you can see that in worst times he could organize economy.


    Dont think Medvedev's choice is not approved by Putin BEFORE its get announced. Or Putin tells Medvedyev whom to appoint. However Dvorkowichand and Sechin were not mentioned respekt respekt respekt







    They forget there were as, or more, competent leaders before Gorbachev and Yeltsin fucked up everything.

    Like whom?


    As for Russians, recently many opinion polls were done by  VISICOM, Levada and you know what: Russians want stability (socio-economical) and better salaries. Are proud form current political and military status.  Shit wasnt it exactly what Putin's break-thru program is about?

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:55 pm

    Russian space chief vows to find “full name” of technician who caused ISS leak

    Sabotage is what everyone is whispering , the reason for the leak.. it turns out ,that it was
    an illegal activity done by a technician ,what caused the leak..  and later try to hide his crime
    with glue..  Laughing



    https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/09/russian-space-chief-vows-to-find-full-name-of-technician-who-caused-iss-leak/?comments=1


    It could have caused a major accident in Space.. And when you have sabotage , this goes to poor supervision ,
    poor leadership , poor recruiting of staff, poor motivation.. Is called I N C O M P E T E N C E.. of the Russian
    Government and a major problem in quality controls .

    To fire a technician will not fix Russia space program.. you need Putin out of office ,because he is the number 1
    incompetent and reducing the Space budget in half , and wasting Russian budget in meaningless Sports Olympics
    and celebrations of Russian past glories... should be seen as treason to Russia.

    That website have the most anti Russian crowd i have ever witness ever , Russia is corrupt , Russia this or that..
    But it sucks when i have to agree with them that Putin needs to get the hell out of Presidency of Russia ,in order for Russia to take off.. albeit for the different reasons.. They believe Russia problem is "Putin Corruption" that somehow he steal the money.. but is not corruption. but incompetence instead , lack of leadership of Putin and pure ignorance ,on how crucial ,how critical is Russia to lead in space in order to stop the the propaganda of US ,that the world cannot exist without them. and make Russia a leading nation again in space.. as soviets did it.
    Is pathetic that Soviets had a more ambitions program back in the 60s ,70s and 80s ,than Russia Federation today.

    This new discovery in soyuz ,should shed some light with Pronton Problems.. British and American space agencies are in a cold war vs Russia and will have plenty of reasons to find ways to sabotage Russia space program from the inside.. Industrial sabotage.. this is an old term and a common tactic used by the west on its enemies.. as an example Iran nuclear reactor ,some time ago ,experience problems , and with Russia help they managed to find the source of the problem.. basically ,they bought mechanical parts from europe , that under closer inspection and dismantling of them ,turned to be rigged ,to sabotage the nuclear reactor of iran.. they found the malicious hardware and replaced it.

    The interesting question is.. if the Russian Government cannot control ,quality controls and sabotage properly in one of their most important Business then what makes anyone believe ,they can monitor properly their military defense industry too.. This should send some light about why Russia experience so much problems in their Planes and hellicopters that crash so frequently and also Proton rockets problems.. the quality issues, is a supervision issue ,that goes all the way to the top office in Russia ,that is the Presidency.. You recruit poor leadership managers ,then they will setup poor working environment with poor supervision. If employees of a Company are doing sabotage.. is because their supervisors and managers did not detected their criminal behavior on time and did not setup the correct security.
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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:57 pm

    Vann7 wrote:.... you need Putin out of office...

    I expected​ this part to be on paragraph 3 as usual but you moved it up to number 2.

    Question: who do you think should replace him? I mean he will be retiring at some point but who is The Chosen One worthy of accomplishing your goals?

    I am really curious about the name so don't keep us in the dark.
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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Isos on Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:14 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:.... you need Putin out of office...

    I expected​ this part to be on paragraph 3 as usual but you moved it up to number 2.

    Question: who do you think should replace him? I mean he will be retiring at some point but who is The Chosen One worthy of accomplishing your goals?

    I am really curious about the name so don't keep us in the dark.

    You seriously read more than one line of vann's posts ? lol1 lol1
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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:44 pm

    Isos wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:.... you need Putin out of office...

    I expected​ this part to be on paragraph 3 as usual but you moved it up to number 2.

    Question: who do you think should replace him? I mean he will be retiring at some point but who is The Chosen One worthy of accomplishing your goals?

    I am really curious about the name so don't keep us in the dark.

    You seriously read more than one line of vann's posts ? lol1 lol1

    Not really, I just know that word "Putin" will pop up before paragraph 3 lol1
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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Big_Gazza on Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:45 am

    Isos wrote:You seriously read more than one line of vann's posts ? lol1 lol1
    Of course, but only out of a morbid sense of curiosity...  Laughing

    Seriously though, this hole in the Soyuz module is clearly an act of deliberate sabotage. The location of the hole was apparently covered in decorative fabric (according to the RT article) which would need to be peeled back to gain access, and given that the surface isn't flat, its extremely doubtful that a hole would ever need to be drilled in this location to secure a fitting to the bulkhead.  

    I'm surprised it has taken this long for anyone to admit the obvious, as there is no way a neat circular hole (with adjacent tooling marks from a slipped drill bit) could be mistaken for a hole created by a micro-meteorite (that would leave a jagged exit hole).  I assume Roscosmos was trying to figure out how to handle it publically.  Or maybe it was Evil Putin covering his tracks by hiding his drill and ordering the Novichok poisoning of any witnesses.... Very Happy
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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:09 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Isos wrote:You seriously read more than one line of vann's posts ? lol1 lol1
    Of course, but only out of a morbid sense of curiosity...  Laughing

    Seriously though, this hole in the Soyuz module is clearly an act of deliberate sabotage. The location of the hole was apparently covered in decorative fabric (according to the RT article) which would need to be peeled back to gain access, and given that the surface isn't flat, its extremely doubtful that a hole would ever need to be drilled in this location to secure a fitting to the bulkhead.  .............

    Never blame sabotage first with Roskosmos when incompetence is always more logical explanation:

    https://ria.ru/space/20180903/1527705864.html

    http://theduran.com/leak-on-the-iss-becomes-a-matter-of-controversy/

    ....
    Right now, the leading theory comes from an unnamed source at Energia, which told the Russian news agency RIA Novosti that “[t]he hole was made on the ground” and that “[t]he person responsible for the act of negligence has been identified”.

    Another anonymous source confirmed that the hole was accidentally drilled by a worker at Energia, who decided to hide their mistake with a seal and decorative fabric instead of reporting it.

    For two months, the gamble paid off. Their patchy solution even managed to pass the spacecraft’s pressurisation tests before it was launched into space to meet up with the ISS. But then, the seal began to leak.

    “[Once in orbit], the glue dried and was squeezed out, opening the hole,” the second source told RIA Novosti.

    Repairing the hole has been neither simple nor straightforward
    , and the problem may have even caused a few cracks between Moscow and Houston.....

    In order for people to assume that sabotage was involved Roskosmos will have to develop track record of reliability first.

    As it stands now incompetence has proven to be cause of every single problem so far, from Fobos-Grunt to Angosat fiasco. I doubt this will be any different.
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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:05 am

    PapaDragon wrote:In order for people to assume that sabotage was involved Roskosmos will have to develop track record of reliability first.

    As it stands now incompetence has proven to be cause of every single problem so far, from Fobos-Grunt to Angosat fiasco. I doubt this will be any different.

    ...except that Soyuz has proved to me extremely reliable.  The only problems I can think of were issues with some pyrotechnic bolts to firing and causing delays on inter-module separations on a few Soyuz re-entries.

    Agree 100% with FG and Angosat however.  They were simply disgraceful. I'd also add the Coronas-Photon fiasco as well... less than 1 year of operation because some idiot didn't properly account for illumination cycle and didn't provide an adequate battery charging capability...
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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:25 am

    PapaDragon wrote:In order for people to assume that sabotage was involved Roskosmos will have to develop track record of reliability first.

    As it stands now incompetence has proven to be cause of every single problem so far, from Fobos-Grunt to Angosat fiasco. I doubt this will be any different.

    Energia are signalling they consider this to be deliberate sabotage...

    The internal commission of the RSC Energia, investigating the reasons for the opening of the Soyuz MS-09 spacecraft, believes that someone specially organized the air leak, a source in the rocket and space industry told RIA Novosti.

    Such a formulation is based on the fact that inside the "Union" no action is taken to drill a shell with a thickness of two millimeters and if someone used a drill, this was done intentionally.

    As explained by the source, the Soyuz ships are piece production, the assembly is carried out manually, so often the details are adjusted to each other already on the spot, for example with a file. But the drill is not used at all, since all holes are made by extruding molds.

    Earlier another source said that the commission had studied the documents from production, but did not find any mention of any work in the ship that could have caused the hole to appear. In this connection, two main versions of the incident are considered. Either the expert wanted to carry out some work in the ship that is not foreseen by the design documentation, and the master who was supposed to control it, went with him to collusion and did not record any records about it. Or it could be a single person who specifically entered the ship.

    Hmm... no assembly work requires the use of a drill... so why was one used, and why was there no record of it in the manufacturing deviations list?

    This doesn't smell like incompetence to me. Being a manned vehicle, I'd expect only fully certified technicians would be allowed anywhere near them.

    My theory is that this is an operation by an organised crime element, probably with Ukrainians as the paymaster. Stranger things have happened...

    full article

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:27 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:.... you need Putin out of office...

    I expected​ this part to be on paragraph 3 as usual but you moved it up to number 2.

    Question: who do you think should replace him? I mean he will be retiring at some point but who is The Chosen One worthy of accomplishing your goals?

    I am really curious about the name so don't keep us in the dark.

    Anyone that understand Leadership what is really about ..how Russia needs to compete with American
    most influential business and Anyone that dont cut the Russian space budget in half..and instead increase it and that stop wasting Russia Budget in temporary distractions like Sports and victory parades and celebrations of past glories. or financing veterans pensions that not even are Russian citizens and live abroad.

    In more space news...
    A new angle surface of the sabotage of the Soyuz.... now they suspecting of NASA astronauts.. Shocked

    (is on spanish RT.. could not find the English version ,but it will show up sooner or later)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4MhgedFxKQ

    Russia asked for the mental medical history of the Astronauts ,on board of the ISS..
    and NASA rejected the request.. What is clear is that it was sabotage , since meteors dont drill things with precision.. and what is not clear is who did it and whether it was the technicians of Soyus or if it was a rebellious Astronaut who did it at the orders of Dark forces in Washington DC..  Maybe it was internal sabotage inside the
    ISS ,and the goal was not to autodestroy the ISS ,but to provoke Russia instead . Perhaps some forces ,that dont want Russia and US astronauts to continue cooperating in space. Remember how Mcain ,tried to cancel the buying
    of Rockets from Russia. even if that hurts them too.. Honestly the more i think about this. Russia government needs to forbid any space walk to Russian cosmonauts again.. if they strongly Suspect a NASA astronaut did the
    sabotage.. Because it could be done to Russian space suits too . when relations are so bad ,and you have people without morals and values in control of US foreign policy , anything is possible. they are capable of killing Russian cosmonauts ,even if after it , Russia cancels cooperation..just for the sake of humiliating Russia , so they get astronauts Permanently floating in space.. after thinking more about this.. if Russia have strong suspicious NASA did it.. then should avoid sending any more Russians to the ISS after this.. and recruit Europeans instead. western dark forces.. will not dare to attack Europeans hired by Russia ,to replace their cosmonauts ..for the major rift in relations . Russia should push for an independent new space station away from NASA ,with CHina ,Japan and other Friendly European states.

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:15 pm

    Vann7 wrote:............
    In more space news...
    A new angle surface of the sabotage of the Soyuz.... now they suspecting of NASA astronauts.. Shocked

    (is on spanish RT.. could not find the English version ,but it will show up sooner or later)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4MhgedFxKQ

    Russia asked for the mental medical history of the Astronauts ,on board of the ISS..
    and NASA rejected the request.....

    I heard about this and hoped it wasn't true but it looks like there is no depths that Roscosmos is not willing to reduce itself to under management of Trampoline Man.  No

    So they are trying to say that NASA astronauts got out of their beds one night, snuck out to docked Soyuz and drilled a hole in it without anyone noticing? Suspect

    Does Trampoline Man and his gang of idiot man-babies actually think that anyone with double-digit number of brain cell would believe this fairytale?

    I am glad that NASA told them to stick this request where the sun don't shine but I hoped they would make bigger spectacle of it in order to teach those incompetent pathetic honorless Russian loses a lesson.

    Is this what Russian space program has been reduced to?
    Korolev and Gagarin are spinning in their graves at orbital velocities as we speak.

    No dignity, no responsibility, no honor. Absolutely repugnant.

    Sad pathetic clowns in a burning circus...







    Vann7 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:.... you need Putin out of office...
    I expected​ this part to be on paragraph 3 as usual but you moved it up to number 2.
    Question: who do you think should replace him? I mean he will be retiring at some point but who is The Chosen One worthy of accomplishing your goals?

    I am really curious about the name so don't keep us in the dark.

    Anyone that understand Leadership what is really about ..how Russia needs to compete with American
    most influential business and Anyone that dont cut the Russian space budget in half..and instead increase it and that stop wasting Russia Budget in temporary distractions like Sports and victory parades and celebrations of past glories. or financing veterans pensions that not even are Russian citizens and live abroad. ....

    So basically you got no one?

    Let me run down options for you: commies, ultra-nationalists or liberals. First group already screwed the pooch several times, second isn't capable of planning further than 5 minutes ahead and third would be doing fire-sale of the whole country.

    Ones left are current folks but they would be doing same thing they are doing now. Why? Because in real life you plan and perform within boundaries of reality, not other way around.

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:38 am

    PapaDragon wrote:

    So basically you got no one?

    Let me run down options for you: commies, ultra-nationalists or liberals. First group already screwed the pooch several times, second isn't capable of planning further than 5 minutes ahead and third would be doing fire-sale of the whole country.

    Ones left are current folks but they would be doing same thing they are doing now. Why? Because in real life you plan and perform within boundaries of reality, not other way around.

    Basically Russia have no hopes.. Putin is bad ,but the soviets are totally bad.. If Communist gets in power,
    will isolate Russia again from Europe.. and nationalize the bank... maybe it will be worth trying  ,because you
    know that Putin will not accomplish anything . His totally Passive policy of waiting for "better times " doesnt work.
    Lavrov told recently.. that the world will be a better place as soon Americans gets tired of trying to change Russia.
    So Putin and LAvrov are waiting for Americans to get tired of punching Russia in the face.. Suspect  but they will never get tired of doing something that always produce some results.. and humilliates Russia too.. Sanctions have damaged Russia and in Syria , Russia have lots soldiers and the war in Syria cost Russia ~$ 500 millions per year more or less. So all that the west needs to do ,is start another frontline.. lets say Serbia.. and you will see Russia on its knees.. with Putin beggin his American partners to be nice .. honestly it will be better the soviets than Putin.
    Because you know that Putin will not do anything to stop for real the western System.. So if we lucky , the soviets will finally seek to retake the leadership in space ,soviets once had ,and start an industrial revolution in Russia. and arrest for Putin for incompetent. For holding Russia progress for so long. The Navalny liberals needs to a lifetime jail with forced labor ,in a cold dungeon in Siberia.. and Zhirinovsky will be the opposite of Putin ,will try to solve all with force..  really no idea , but honestly i can't stand anymore Putin ultra passive  outdated policy with the west.. waiting and waiting for their western "partners" to change..instead of breaking the influence US have over Europe and the world ,by reinventing a new Russia with a modern innovative business economy.

    Russia needs someone like Elon Musk.. as leader.. Someone who wants to lead the world innovation.
    or like Jack MA the richest man in China , people with major business ambitions and with major
    self confidence in their capabilities. Putin have no ambitions other than a "stable Russia".. Rolling Eyes
    and becomes leaders in agriculture and sports.. Rolling Eyes

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    Anti-putin discussion

    Post  Tingsay on Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:41 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:

    So basically you got no one?

    Let me run down options for you: commies, ultra-nationalists or liberals. First group already screwed the pooch several times, second isn't capable of planning further than 5 minutes ahead and third would be doing fire-sale of the whole country.

    Ones left are current folks but they would be doing same thing they are doing now. Why? Because in real life you plan and perform within boundaries of reality, not other way around.

    Basically Russia have no hopes.. Putin is bad ,but the soviets are totally bad.. If Communist gets in power,
    will isolate Russia again from Europe.. and nationalize the bank... maybe it will be worth trying  ,because you
    know that Putin will not accomplish anything . His totally Passive policy of waiting for "better times " doesnt work.
    Lavrov told recently.. that the world will be a better place as soon Americans gets tired of trying to change Russia.
    So Putin and LAvrov are waiting for Americans to get tired of punching Russia in the face.. Suspect  but they will never get tired of doing something that always produce some results.. and humilliates Russia too.. Sanctions have damaged Russia and in Syria , Russia have lots soldiers and the war in Syria cost Russia ~$ 500 millions per year more or less. So all that the west needs to do ,is start another frontline.. lets say Serbia.. and you will see Russia on its knees.. with Putin beggin his American partners to be nice .. honestly it will be better the soviets than Putin.
    Because you know that Putin will not do anything to stop for real the western System.. So if we lucky , the soviets will finally seek to retake the leadership in space ,soviets once had ,and start an industrial revolution in Russia. and arrest for Putin for incompetent. For holding Russia progress for so long. The Navalny liberals needs to a lifetime jail with forced labor ,in a cold dungeon in Siberia.. and Zhirinovsky will be the opposite of Putin ,will try to solve all with force..  really no idea , but honestly i can't stand anymore Putin ultra passive  outdated policy with the west.. waiting and waiting for their western "partners" to change..instead of breaking the influence US have over Europe and the world ,by reinventing a new Russia with a modern innovative business economy.

    Russia needs someone like Elon Musk.. as leader.. Someone who wants to lead the world innovation.
    or like Jack MA the richest man in China , people with major business ambitions and with major
    self confidence in their capabilities. Putin have no ambitions other than a "stable Russia".. Rolling Eyes
    and becomes leaders in agriculture and sports.. Rolling Eyes

    Elon Musk or Jack Ma is your answer for better presidents Laughing Laughing Laughing
    Elon mUsk is in trouble if you cared to read up.

    Also Vann, presidents are not as powerful as you think they are. You're hoping for a benevolent dictator that can do no wrong. No state has ever produced such a person.
    Putin really is one of the best if not the best for Russia. If Russian space programs are as bad as you think they are in, leadership from the state should be the last thing on your mind. Start with Rocosmos heads all the way down to the employees, please.
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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:50 am

    If Communist gets in power,
    will isolate Russia again from Europe.. and nationalize the bank...

    Banks in the west make enormous profits every year... I think they should all be nationalised... it should not be legal to run a privately owned bank....

    And it is Europe and the US that are isolating themselves from Russia and long may they continue... it makes Russia more independent and will mean they are vastly more respected when going into markets in Africa and central and south america who all realise what bunch of colonial censored the west are.

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