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    Anti-Putin Discussion

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    Kimppis

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Kimppis on Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:09 pm

    Russia will never become a consumer electronics and technology exporting powerhouse, ffs. Very few countries have managed to do that. Even Western Europe is kind of lacking in that in many ways.

    Look at your BS list... What do you see? Mostly countries from East Asian and the US. So by your logic, it must mean all other countries are banana republics, including most countries in Western Europe?

    That shit is not Russia's comparative advantage. It's not going to happen, no matter how much they'll throw money at it. Do you think "Putin" is that dumb? Russia is like Canada or Australia, not a banana republic. Sounds terrible, huh? Australia is such a terrible place to live. Rolling Eyes

    Also, China is not "communist" or "dictatorship", stop with the outdated stereotypes. The Chinese "creativity" or "freedom of expression" is not limited by its system, if anything it seem to be superior in many ways.

    And lol at the "needs democracy" bit. Nice "end of history" BS. China is already the number 1 player in smartphones and similar products (if you combine all their major brands). Its internet companies are technologies are very innovative...

    The only reason China is not "dominating" yet, is because its average living standards are still quite modest. It has nothing to do with China's political system. The country is not totalitarian, not anymore, not even close. And the trends are very obvious.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:39 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Mods, can we ban this dipshit called Vann? Not only the guy has been proven to be retarded beyond recognition, but wrong on everything. Yet he somehow thinks we give a shit about his two bit uneducated opinion in threads like this, that is downright trolling.

    I am just flabbergasted at sheer amount of horseshit he is able to type at such short notice. And judging by formatting style odds are he is doing it from portable device... The horror.... affraid



    As for you Vann and this litle gem of yours:
    Vann7 wrote:..................
    This is what Putin's Vision of Russia is..
    Russia to boost wheat exports on expectations of record harvest
    https://www.rt.com/business/402450-russia-wheat-imports-increase/

    a banana power in influence in the world.. ........

    I will reply with following quote:

    “Control oil and you control nations; control food and you control the people.” - Henry Kissinger
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Singular_Transform on Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:43 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    kvs wrote:https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/95609/

    RosElektronika has moved production of navigation chips (for GLONASS, GPS) to 55 nm and will move to 40 nm soon.
    Up to now production has been on the 130 nm process.     It looks to me that there has been a rather substantial
    leap in semiconductor fabrication in Russia in the last few years.   But I see no direct reporting on this.

    Looks like sanctions are not stopping this innovation.   McShitStain should go and jump in a lake.

    What "innovation" you talking about ?  Russia is at least 20 years behind Americans semiconductor industry. and like ~30 years in advance discrete graphics . Verite 1000
    was American discrete graphics innovation released for market in 1996 ,but they were working on it since many years earlier ,when is Russia innovation in 3d graphics going to start?  Rolling Eyes




    Stop your blind nonsense praise for Russia in the things they should not be praised at all .
    Even SIngapore a tiny island with just 5 million citizens ,and with 1/1000 the budget of Russia , have far ahead knowledge than Russia in electronics ,semiconductors and computers. Putin should feel ashamed of himself for ignoring Russia innovation for so long in modern electronics and semiconductor industry.   Taiwan, South Korea, Japan ,singapore ,FInland you name it..



    Have you checked the numbers?
    60 billion $ sound like a lot, but it is pretty much the whole planet semiconductor spending . It needs 2-3 million worker to make, including the whole supply chain .

    The IT industry is 3500 billion $, means the actual ICs represent only 2% from the whole IT technology !!!

    The Facebook ( yandex) require more resources than the manufacturing of the ICs to run the software.

    The graphics card business is a fraction of the whole IC business. So it is quite irrelevant.

    Maybe it is important for you, but it doesn't means that it is important for an economy.


    And why Russia needs same export industry?
    At the moment the country is in the top ten trade surplus country list, so if say the trade deficit will increase to twice as beg then what because big part of the workers will make thing that no Russian ,only American wants then what?Why is it good for the Russians?

    The trade surplus good only for the rich.

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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Singular_Transform on Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:06 pm

    Vann7 wrote:

    Information and graphics technology is the way to the future. And not for military purposes
    no.. but for civilians instead. for the entire society enjoyment. This is what American top
    business doing. and Putin the moron is destroying Russia by promoting third world nation
    business.

    DR Michio Kaku: warned Latin America in that conference to not commit the mistake
    to stay in commodities and other obsolete business as energy will be since will become
    incredibly cheap and instead move to modern business.  Nothing is more modern
    than Space exploration and Information and graphics technology..exactly the things
    that RUssia is either not investing ,not taking it seriously or reducing significantly its investment.  No

    This is why Russia is doomed to Failure. Because it will never disband the American System and Russia under Putin will only move backwards at a fast speed with his totally obsolete vision of RUssia. Europe will never abandon the American Business for Russian ones..why will they do that? confused   If AMericans tells their allies , either Russia or US.. you can't have both..
    then why will Europeans will choose Russian business world that doesn't exist for civilians ,versus a system already "working" not fair but working, with Internet with banking system, with lots of very modern and very innovative business development?

    If Putin had a clue what he is doing ,and the west doing.. he will either resign and or completely reverse Russia direction. its economy. Make Private all Russia energy business ,stay away of it.sell it to Germany and France to keep them bound to RUssia. Cancel the bullshit sports and olympics , and focus 100% in modern innovative business based on Computers /information technology ,graphics and entertainment. Russia needs another space race done with intelligence on the way of spending and a technology race aimed to compete with American top business.  But is unlikely that the caveman President in Russia will do anything of that.
    he will continue promoting "patriotism" with victory parades and Russia past ,and sports with healthy food.  No

    So Russia have no chance ,to ever lead on anything. it will likely disappear like soviet union did. China have a small chance because at least they pay attention to western business and try to imitate /reverse engineer what the west does right. Laughing   China only problem is its communism /dictatorship like system. it needs a full democracy to grow,with full freedom of expression ,so society can become very creative with their business. Putin will never have friendly Americans to Russia ,NEVER.. he either fight them or Influence them and he does none of them. So it means Americans will continue punching the face of Russia as they did in Ukraine and Syria with more conflicts until Russia collapse. will face many wars in many countries that will have to come in their defense. destroying totally Russia economy. Americans economy will not collapse ever ,as long its allies support their system. a system that also Russia promotes by following
    it. Laughing




    Mate, this videos are advertisement for the new trend to sell pile of augmented reality gadgets to companies, and claim that it will increase the productivity.

    Like in the Airbus where the workers use augmented reality gadgets to see the work instruction for the parts Very Happy


    All of them made by persons who has no clue how to organise production ,and what are the critical characteristics for that. You know like actual skill levels, training, problem solving culture .

    These are the same guys who doesn't realise that the best part of the design still in 2D, and the majority of the industries doesn't use 20-30 years old tools , because of the too high cost of implementation.

    I tell to you a secret : the semiconductor industry dead, it is hitting the the dismissing returns period now. To invest into consumer semiconductor technology is like invest into whale ships in 1900. Good if you have al of of money to waste : D

    http://www.eetimes.com/author.asp?doc_id=1329887

    Maybe the semi industry it will make sense if we will have labs in the space.

    This chart is the reason why the Russian military bought 90nm machines.

    The 90 nm can be upgraded to 45nm, and beyond that there is no benefit to scale down the things.

    The chip can be smaller, that is good for a phone or for a watch, but not cheaper,and not faster.


    Vann7

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Vann7 on Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:23 am

    PapaDragon wrote:

    I will reply with following quote:

    “Control oil and you control nations; control food and you control the people.” - Henry Kissinger

    And he was wrong..
    IF you develop solar energy or hydrogen driven cars ,then where will your Oil strategy will go?
    THe only reason Oil is still strong in the world is because americans Petrodollar system. But if Russia really wanted to destroy Americans , it will create a Green Energy Revolution. Putin
    have everything to compete with United States. it have the talent and the skills in Russia scientific community ,but he does nothing. He develops Russia like third world nations do. Depending on energy and commodities sales. and the add Olympics non sense to promote artificial patriotism..  that is to promote
    "Russian greatness" based on completely irrelevant epenis contest jumping and running ,activities that in no way makes Russia better nation vs United States .  Is amazing how
    no one can see Russia mistakes. i see them from a mile away.  Putin complains of the
    Americans unfair system ,but he offers NOTHING , in change.. so why he complains then?
    If you are not going to lead the world.. or at least compete with the west ,then he should better shut up.. because he is only embarrassing  Russians with his begging to his american "partners".   Americans fully understand Russian weakness.. but Putin don't. He don't see
    a direct connection of Russia backward BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT and lack of innovative business leadership in civilian sector with Russia lack of allies in the world in the west.  This is why Russia could not get anyone to help them in Syria.. while Americans who were aiding Alqaeda and ISIS get 30 nations.

    And no im not anti Russia. I defend RUssia all the time everywhere. but only anti mediocre leaders.. like Putin is. Because i know he is the main problem of Russia being so disrespected
    and humiliated in the world and without Allies in the west that will stand side by side with RUssia.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:35 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:

    I will reply with following quote:

    “Control oil and you control nations; control food and you control the people.” - Henry Kissinger

    And he was wrong..
    IF you develop solar energy or hydrogen driven cars ,then where will your Oil strategy will go?
    THe only reason Oil is still strong in the world is because americans Petrodollar system. ......

    You are not just stupid are you? You are borderline illiterate as well.

    That quote refers to insignificance of controlling oil in comparison to controlling food.

    But you simply lack intellectual acumen to notice it.

    Vann7

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Vann7 on Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:23 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    You are not just stupid are you? You are borderline illiterate as well.

    That quote refers to insignificance of controlling oil in comparison to controlling food.

    But you simply lack intellectual acumen to notice it.

    He was wrong either way. US can't control food in Russia , and if they do it one day, then
    its because Russia ceased to exist and no longer have a Government and borders. You can control people by controlling the things their addictions too..  Drugs for example is one way to control society. another is through fear , or through debt ,there are many ways.. and American
    use all of them. but Control of society is a negative influence.. There is positive ways to influence society without the need of controlling them, but by inspiring them. like entertainment ,arts ,technology and music..  Russia inspire no one with its Gas discounts..Americans in the other hand inspire everyone in the world with their modern innovative business.  This is is why Americans could get easily Ukraine away of Russia and why Europe side with American sanctions even when the conflict in Ukraine and Syria was started by them. Europe will not abandon the American system vs nothing that Russia offer. is as simple as that.

    The only people that likes Putin are the ones are perfectly fine with Russia being a punching bag of the west ,with Russia humiliated all the time ,with Russian soldiers killed by american provided weapons to ISIS, and are perfectly fine with Russia being a joke of the world ,unable to defend anyone properly like their own soldiers or its friends as in Ukraine or Syria.

    Putin's presidential plane chased by NATO ,their Embassies over run by its enemies and Russia bullied all the time on its on face , without Russia doing anything to fight back..
     How is that brilliant ? Neutral

    How can Putin be praised when he allow the west to humilliate Russia so much ..
    and dominate in everything ,and impose its will on Russia? Russia can't defend anyone properly in Americans picks a fight with them,and Ukraine And Syria proof that. All this comes from Putin weakness and the lack of influence of Russia business in the world . to counter US domination of it.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:12 am

    '

    Vann you are nothing more than a dumb ranting bumbling braindead moron.

    I'm done wasting time with you.

    Only reason you are not on ignore list is because it fucks up shortcut links on this forum. But I mentioned this before.
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    Airman

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Airman on Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:51 pm

    Russia could be the most successful state in the last 17-18 years. I can clearly say that from my perspective. Crimea is under control of Russia, some part of Ukraine is under control of Russian ally state ''Novorossiya'' and Russia set up air base in Syria called ''Khmeimim''.

    I think the reason why Russia's space program is not as good as America is not Putin's fault. Russia isn't economically excellent. Russia also has to spend money on the Russian Army. It must be difficult for Russia to balance all expenses and investments.

    Svyatoslavich

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:51 am

    Airman wrote:
    I think the reason why Russia's space program is not as good as America is not Putin's fault. Russia isn't economically excellent. Russia also has to spend money on the Russian Army. It must be difficult for Russia to balance all expenses and investments.
    True. Having less than 150 million people, there just isn't enough engineers and technicians for both the military and civilian industries, and the space program. The first is needed to defend a country a surrounded country from almost all sides, the second in order to have a thriving economy and avoid the fate of the USSR which didn't care much for its consuming industry, so there isn't much of a choice, space program won't disappear but has the least priority and will have to wait for better times...
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:54 am

    On the contrary. Many small nations progressed in their scientific development with much smaller population. Issue Russia faces is that many institutions just don't want to pay money for the engineers.
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    Airman

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Airman on Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:23 pm

    If Sergei Korolev didn't died too early, I'm sure that he would build successful N1 Rocket. After Sergei Korolev died, all N1 Rocket tests failed.
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:19 pm

    Airman wrote:If Sergei Korolev didn't died too early, I'm sure that he would build successful N1 Rocket. After Sergei Korolev died, all N1 Rocket tests failed.

    Come on, from what i know, the N1 was Korolev's design, and a very strange choice to use instead of an up-sized R7 design, which would have the advantage of simplifying the fuel plumping, the main problem with the N1.

    Perhaps there was a weight issue, still an odd choice.

    There was also talk of replacing the R-7 series with the N1 series.

    Svyatoslavich

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:02 am

    miketheterrible wrote:On the contrary. Many small nations progressed in their scientific development with much smaller population.  Issue Russia faces is that many institutions just don't want to pay money for the engineers.
    Large scale space exploration (meaning manned and interplanetary missions, not just launching low Earth orbit satellites) is available only to very rich and populated countries - US, Russia, China, India, Japan, the European countries joined in ESA (which is bigger than the EU, even Switzerland is a member of ESA). The smallest of all these is Japan, with 100 million odd people. You need a surplus of very skilled and educated people to have a real space program.

    Arrow

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Arrow on Fri May 04, 2018 6:39 pm

    Putin is currently a very weak politician.

    Vann7

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Vann7 on Fri May 04, 2018 10:04 pm

    Arrow wrote:Putin is currently a very weak politician.

    Is not weakness and insecurity his real big problem...
    Because in Ukraine Putin did exactly what i would have done.. had my nation influence with the west
    was so mediocre ..  Also in Syria Putin did quite well too , so he deserve
    that credit... he can't be strong in Syria ,when there are not one ,not two ,not three but like near a dozen of powerful nations including most its neighbors in an Undeclared war with Syria.. So Russia government understood that if it start
    a war with NATO ,or ISrael and or Turkey.. when Syria only controlled 30% of its territory and was about to be over run by ISIS in Palmyra. Then is clear that Russia will not be able to properly help Syria ..if started a war with Syrian enemies.  SO Putin had to play a policy that could allow them to earn time..at the expense of looking weak..

    But none of this weak strategy will be needed ,had Russia was a Strong influential nation... if Russia was
    influential nation ,NATO WILL NOT EXIST.. and everyone in Europe will want to be closer to Russia..to the winners.
    not the losers.. Is not about money people. .Saudi Arabia have a lot of money.. and nobody cares about them..
    is about LEADERSHIP.  Leadership in civilian business and in military too..


    The real Problem of Putin.. is that He have no clue of how to influence its enemies ,
    how to Influence Europe away from the American orbit.. or how to influence Americans
    to stop its cold/hot war against Russia...


    Leadership is the ability to INFLUENCE others to do the things you want..to make others wants to follow you
    to any place or future..the ability to Inspire people to be better . and in this context Putin is not really a Political leader.. Instead what Putin is ,more like a Spiritual mentor of Russia.. but not a real Leader.

    I have see many videos ,interviews about why people support Putin in Russia.. and all of them...
    is not about how strong or not he is...but the TRUST... Putin inspire on them.. People Trust in Putin..even though they don't like his outdated policies. SO Russians vote for Putin..only because he is patriotic and the only one they Trust .
    But not because he is a strong leader with a strong and inspiring personality. that he is not.

    So if Great world Leaders are people who have Great Influence in people in the world.. then Great Business are business are the ones that produce things everyone likes(like=influence) in the world.. and Putin and Russia have none of them.. with the exception of Russia space program.. There is no other thing Russia does.. that can influence the average (civilian) society in the west to move away from the American very influential business system.
    Russia produce second to none Military technology... but can people buy tanks? can people buy Stealth planes?
    So Russia military industry is important yes.. but only to counter Russia mediocre influence with the west.
    but Russia military Russian nukes ,hypersonic missiles and tanks as cool they are and needed for Russia..will not Convince anyone in Euope to abandon the American unfair system.. No

    and to make things worse..Putin is moving backwards By reducing the budget in the few things
    that have helped Russia to capture some attention from the west.. Putin reduced the budget in Space..  No
    while increased charity and social aid ,victory parades and sports.... Laughing
    Now Putin is in full retard mode and also reducing the budget of its military in times he will need
    to invest more for the tensions,this is insanity mode now... No

    My only Hope is that all this official numbers ,Russia give to the public about its budget how is invested,
    in space and military are just a tactic to confuse Russia enemies ,so they don't know in which direction Russia is moving really.. But so far.. im not holding my breath for it. I think he really is really disconnected from reality.
    and really think Americans will give up their plans to destroy Russia..just because Putin shows a polite face.

    Putin major criminal mistake.. is to not Understand how Anglos and Europeans think.. to not understand
    how to influence their enemy in a way that Respect Russia ,not a fearful base respect.. that a powerful army
    only can do.. but a friendly respect.. because of support.  Is not Agriculture records , Sports records where Putin
    needs to compete with Americans.. is with Modern innovative business that Nobody else can do ,for being too difficult..
    but that everyone love.. this is where Russia needs to compete..  if Russia defeated American Entertainment industry ,specially Technology (Apple,Intel,Internet)  and Space industry in pushing farther .then Americans will not been able
    to hold Europe under control at all for more.. Why would Europe follow American system.. if Russia can replace US most wanted business?

    This is why  United States fear China more than Russia.. Because US knows Russia will never use nukes against them..
    as long they don't nuclear hit Russia.. So Russia threat for Americans is only in sabotage of Americans military wars..
    But China is the real threat for Americans... and what things Americans fear most of China...

    This is What Americans are really scared most.. is not hypersonic missiles..
    that will only be used in an imaginary nuclear war ,that they have the last word if it will happen or not.
    But what Americans fear most is not Russia nukes.. but China challenging American technology industry.


    Trump administration wants to invoke the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA) to prohibit the Chinese from purchasing US high-tech companies.

    On May 3, the US delegation led by Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin arrived in China to discuss the ongoing trade frictions. However, according to Bloomberg,[u] the Chinese made it clear that their technological development plan is not on the table. [/i]

    https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201805041064157765-china-chip-us/


    This is what really don't make the US government police makers sleep at nights.. and what that is?
    The major advances of China in the  HI TECH , technology Industry. US fears that China business
    could outmatch Americans Silicon Valley companies.. Because Hi Tech companies are the MOST INFLUENTIAL
    Business of all.. Everyone loves hi tech technology.. Muslim ,Christians ,jews ,no matter who you are..everyone
    love the latest Smart phones ,everyone (but Putin) love the internet. Imagine your life without internet??
    everyone love Space.. who doesn't ?  Everyone love movies and music.. anyone following?  

    So is Russian being an agriculture super power ,what Putin needs to brag about. No body cares a shit ,that Russia can
    produce more potatoes than  Africa.or America. No body cares a shit or will remember the olympics after weeks later .the events ends..What people care are the things they can use every day ,on a daily basis ,and that can make their lives better and more fun.


    US BIGGEST FEAR is losing the influence of their high tech innovative technology business..and the more unique and innovative they are ,that have no competition ,the more scared they are..they scared to lose the LEAD.. their leadership ,their influence of their business ,to invite  the world to become part of the American unipolar world. And CHina is the only country that is fighting for real at the American empire..  They are becoming a real Super Power...
    not only in military but in technology business too.. HUAWEI as an example is becoming a very respected brand
    in smart phones.. and laptops and IT routers.. (using one)

    China moving too in banking industry... and have its own AMAZON..  lol1    
    Chinese companies are even producing a competition for Nintendo.. in China..  Laughing
    So what the fuck is Putin is doing?  No   Putin and Lavrov complains and complains
    and complains all the fucking time about American unfair world.. but they do nothing
    to offer an alternative to it..  I don't like your system... Says Putin and Lavrov to Americans..
    well then why the fuck they don't build their own ? a better one?


    Putin biggest mistake is to follow the American leadership ,
    follow the american System , depends on American technology , American internet.
    Allow American entertainment industry to totally dominate Russia . And later don't understand
    why NOBODY LISTEN PUTIN.   anyone remembers the Hypersonic Missiles videos?
    Putin told , you did not listened..now you will...???   this shows how idiotic Putin is..
    His policy advisors needs to be shot in the head.. He wants to influence Americans with nukes...
    but this will not make a single difference at all.. if the goal was to force americans to retreat
    from their cold war.. then they will be for a major dissapointment .US will continue targeting Russia
    economy ,and provoking conflicts like Ukraine ,Syria ,to continue bleeding Russia economy
    until its explodes..  Because there are NO NEGATIVE consequences for American Business or economy..
    and neither Russia influence the west.. then they have no reasons why to stop slapping the face of Putin
    and the humiliation of Russia.and Putin and lavrov complaining endlessly.   No

    Why i don't understand why no one tells Putin any of this.. there are 140 millions of Russian citizens..
    in Russia and about 350 millions in Europe? there had to be someone there , a politician to warn Putin
    about his mistakes. Russia needs real INDEPENDENCE , and become an alternative to US.. it had no choice
    but to offer an alternative. since Americans will never disband their system ,no matter how much Putin
    and lavrov complains.

    China is becoming a world real super power.. and a world leader too...and China was seen as a nation of farmers
    just 20 to  30 years ago.. Russia is only projecting weakness and being a sorry nation.. that needs to invest
    heavily in nukes in order to get just a little bit of attention..   No

    In summary Russia needs to looks at Japan, at South korea,and  taiwan, but also at China the things their civilian business are doing right.. Big part if not most of the world top technology comes from there. No idea why a small Island like Taiwan could do infinitely better than Russia in Semiconductor industry..  and as you see none of those countries are popular for being good at sports.. but they are clear leaders in innovation and technology in the world and ALL NATIONS in the world love to follow their business.  Developing a Lazy economy.. based only in Mining and Agriculture and Energy is not going to help Russia ever to take down the dependence of Europe on the American Business and their system.. Europe we like it or not.. their policies and liberal culture.. is very important player for the existence of the American System.. without Europe , the US empire can't exist.. and Russia no longer can be threatened on its borders..or its economy sanctioned.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Fri May 04, 2018 10:51 pm; edited 3 times in total
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    Hole

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Hole on Fri May 04, 2018 10:31 pm

    ZoA wrote:Putin has a record doing disastrous and patently stupid actions. Best example is appointment of Kudrin's protege Nabiullina  as a head of CBR. Doing something as colossally retarded as handing power to shitstain traitor Kudrin is not something entirely impossible.

    If that transpires Russia is pretty much fucked. We are talking about early 90s stile collapse and mass looting of national wealth, another massive drop in living standard and life expectancy, hiperausterity ending of all state development programs, science programs, social development program, defence industry programs, and violent prosecution and liquidation of opponents of US imperialism and advocates of Russia's sovereignty like Yeltsin did in 1993 when he sent army to murder his political opponents.

    As american Mr. Roberts should work to replace the current Regime (deep state) in his own country.

    Why do you attack the messenger? Roberts is 100% right in his assessment, and your response sounds as self delusional deflection of partisan fan boy.

    Roberts laments the whole time Russia should do this or that against Amiland. He lives there. He should be the first to do something against the deep state, not a russian politican.
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    kvs

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  kvs on Sat May 05, 2018 12:46 am

    All this Kudrin speculation is Putin trolling the liberast fringe and its NATO masters.   Kudrin is a complete comprador loon who hangs
    out with the Navalny crowd.   Does anyone seriously believe that Putin would sell out to Navalny?



    Last edited by kvs on Sat May 05, 2018 2:06 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Value added)

    andalusia

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  andalusia on Sat May 05, 2018 1:09 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    Arrow wrote:Putin is currently a very weak politician.

    Is not weakness and insecurity his real big problem...
    Because in Ukraine Putin did exactly what i would have done.. had my nation influence with the west
    was so mediocre ..  Also in Syria Putin did quite well too , so he deserve
    that credit... he can't be strong in Syria ,when there are not one ,not two ,not three but like near a dozen of powerful nations including most its neighbors in an Undeclared war with Syria.. So Russia government understood that if it start
    a war with NATO ,or ISrael and or Turkey.. when Syria only controlled 30% of its territory and was about to be over run by ISIS in Palmyra. Then is clear that Russia will not be able to properly help Syria ..if started a war with Syrian enemies.  SO Putin had to play a policy that could allow them to earn time..at the expense of looking weak..

    But none of this weak strategy will be needed ,had Russia was a Strong influential nation... if Russia was
    influential nation ,NATO WILL NOT EXIST.. and everyone in Europe will want to be closer to Russia..to the winners.
    not the losers.. Is not about money people. .Saudi Arabia have a lot of money.. and nobody cares about them..
    is about LEADERSHIP.  Leadership in civilian business and in military too..


    The real Problem of Putin.. is that He have no clue of how to influence its enemies ,
    how to Influence Europe away from the American orbit.. or how to influence Americans
    to stop its cold/hot war against Russia...


    Leadership is the ability to INFLUENCE others to do the things you want..to make others wants to follow you
    to any place or future..the ability to Inspire people to be better . and in this context Putin is not really a Political leader.. Instead what Putin is ,more like a Spiritual mentor of Russia.. but not a real Leader.

    I have see many videos ,interviews about why people support Putin in Russia.. and all of them...
    is not about how strong or not he is...but the TRUST... Putin inspire on them.. People Trust in Putin..even though they don't like his outdated policies. SO Russians vote for Putin..only because he is patriotic and the only one they Trust .
    But not because he is a strong leader with a strong and inspiring personality. that he is not.

    So if Great world Leaders are people who have Great Influence in people in the world.. then Great Business are business are the ones that produce things everyone likes(like=influence) in the world.. and Putin and Russia have none of them.. with the exception of Russia space program.. There is no other thing Russia does.. that can influence the average (civilian) society in the west to move away from the American very influential business system.
    Russia produce second to none Military technology... but can people buy tanks? can people buy Stealth planes?
    So Russia military industry is important yes.. but only to counter Russia mediocre influence with the west.
    but Russia military Russian nukes ,hypersonic missiles and tanks as cool they are and needed for Russia..will not Convince anyone in Euope to abandon the American unfair system..  No

    and to make things worse..Putin is moving backwards By reducing the budget in the few things
    that have helped Russia to capture some attention from the west.. Putin reduced the budget in Space..  No
    while increased charity and social aid ,victory parades and sports.... Laughing
    Now Putin is in full retard mode and also reducing the budget of its military in times he will need
    to invest more for the tensions,this is insanity mode now... No

    My only Hope is that all this official numbers ,Russia give to the public about its budget how is invested,
    in space and military are just a tactic to confuse Russia enemies ,so they don't know in which direction Russia is moving really.. But so far.. im not holding my breath for it. I think he really is really disconnected from reality.
    and really think Americans will give up their plans to destroy Russia..just because Putin shows a polite face.

    Putin major criminal mistake.. is to not Understand how Anglos and Europeans think.. to not understand
    how to influence their enemy in a way that Respect Russia ,not a fearful base respect.. that a powerful army
    only can do.. but a friendly respect.. because of support.  Is not Agriculture records , Sports records where Putin
    needs to compete with Americans.. is with Modern innovative business that Nobody else can do ,for being too difficult..
    but that everyone love.. this is where Russia needs to compete..  if Russia defeated American Entertainment industry ,specially Technology (Apple,Intel,Internet)  and Space industry in pushing farther .then Americans will not been able
    to hold Europe under control at all for more.. Why would Europe follow American system.. if Russia can replace US most wanted business?

    This is why  United States fear China more than Russia.. Because US knows Russia will never use nukes against them..
    as long they don't nuclear hit Russia.. So Russia threat for Americans is only in sabotage of Americans military wars..
    But China is the real threat for Americans... and what things Americans fear most of China...

    This is What Americans are really scared most.. is not hypersonic missiles..
    that will only be used in an imaginary nuclear war ,that they have the last word if it will happen or not.
    But what Americans fear most is not Russia nukes.. but China challenging American technology industry.


    Trump administration wants to invoke the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA) to prohibit the Chinese from purchasing US high-tech companies.

    On May 3, the US delegation led by Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin arrived in China to discuss the ongoing trade frictions. However, according to Bloomberg,[u] the Chinese made it clear that their technological development plan is not on the table. [/i]

    https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201805041064157765-china-chip-us/


    This is what really don't make the US government police makers sleep at nights.. and what that is?
    The major advances of China in the  HI TECH , technology Industry. US fears that China business
    could outmatch Americans Silicon Valley companies.. Because Hi Tech companies are the MOST INFLUENTIAL
    Business of all.. Everyone loves hi tech technology.. Muslim ,Christians ,jews ,no matter who you are..everyone
    love the latest Smart phones ,everyone (but Putin) love the internet. Imagine your life without internet??
    everyone love Space.. who doesn't ?  Everyone love movies and music.. anyone following?  

    So is Russian being an agriculture super power ,what Putin needs to brag about. No body cares a shit ,that Russia can
    produce more potatoes than  Africa.or America. No body cares a shit or will remember the olympics after weeks later .the events ends..What people care are the things they can use every day ,on a daily basis ,and that can make their lives better and more fun.


    US BIGGEST FEAR is losing the influence of their high tech innovative technology business..and the more unique and innovative they are ,that have no competition ,the more scared they are..they scared to lose the LEAD.. their leadership ,their influence of their business ,to invite  the world to become part of the American unipolar world. And CHina is the only country that is fighting for real at the American empire..  They are becoming a real Super Power...
    not only in military but in technology business too.. HUAWEI as an example is becoming a very respected brand
    in smart phones.. and laptops and IT routers.. (using one)

    China moving too in banking industry... and have its own AMAZON..  lol1    
    Chinese companies are even producing a competition for Nintendo.. in China..  Laughing
    So what the fuck is Putin is doing?  No   Putin and Lavrov complains and complains
    and complains all the fucking time about American unfair world.. but they do nothing
    to offer an alternative to it..  I don't like your system... Says Putin and Lavrov to Americans..
    well then why the fuck they don't build their own ? a better one?


    Putin biggest mistake is to follow the American leadership ,
    follow the american System , depends on American technology , American internet.
    Allow American entertainment industry to totally dominate Russia . And later don't understand
    why NOBODY LISTEN PUTIN.   anyone remembers the Hypersonic Missiles videos?
    Putin told , you did not listened..now you will...???   this shows how idiotic Putin is..
    His policy advisors needs to be shot in the head.. He wants to influence Americans with nukes...
    but this will not make a single difference at all.. if the goal was to force americans to retreat
    from their cold war.. then they will be for a major dissapointment .US will continue targeting Russia
    economy ,and provoking conflicts like Ukraine ,Syria ,to continue bleeding Russia economy
    until its explodes..  Because there are NO NEGATIVE consequences for American Business or economy..
    and neither Russia influence the west.. then they have no reasons why to stop slapping the face of Putin
    and the humiliation of Russia.and Putin and lavrov complaining endlessly.   No

    Why i don't understand why no one tells Putin any of this.. there are 140 millions of Russian citizens..
    in Russia and about 350 millions in Europe? there had to be someone there , a politician to warn Putin
    about his mistakes. Russia needs real INDEPENDENCE , and become an alternative to US.. it had no choice
    but to offer an alternative. since Americans will never disband their system ,no matter how much Putin
    and lavrov complains.

    China is becoming a world real super power.. and a world leader too...and China was seen as a nation of farmers
    just 20 to  30 years ago.. Russia is only projecting weakness and being a sorry nation.. that needs to invest
    heavily in nukes in order to get just a little bit of attention..   No

    In summary Russia needs to looks at Japan, at South korea,and  taiwan, but also at China the things their civilian business are doing right.. Big part if not most of the world top technology comes from there. No idea why a small Island like Taiwan could do infinitely better than Russia in Semiconductor industry..  and as you see none of those countries are popular for being good at sports.. but they are clear leaders in innovation and technology in the world and ALL NATIONS in the world love to follow their business.  Developing a Lazy economy.. based only in Mining and Agriculture and Energy is not going to help Russia ever to take down the dependence of Europe on the American Business and their system.. Europe we like it or not.. their policies and liberal culture.. is very important player for the existence of the American System.. without Europe , the US empire can't exist.. and Russia no longer can be threatened on its borders..or its economy sanctioned.

    Vann I strongly agree with everything you said.  I believe if Russia had the fourth or fifth largest economy in the world with its current military power to back it up, the United States would have more respect an fear Russia.  You should try to write what you just posted to a politician or somebody influential in Russia or to a newspaper or magazine that has wide circulation in Russia to influence public opinion.  

    Russia has better technological know how and a better educated population than China to pull if off.  I also don't know why Russia doesn't issue it's own currency the Ruble interest free.  They should do what Nazi Germany did with respect to not being dependent on international bankers. http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/bankrupt-germany.php

    America is an evil empire and the only country that can defeat it is Russia along with China.  If Russia was stronger economically America even think threatening Russia with NATO expansion.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 05, 2018 9:46 am

    Yeah, Putin is weak... that is why he is always on the news in the west.... behind this conspirasy or that... taking on the entire western world... picking and choosing governments left and right...

    And now China is dropping the US dollar in oil sales/purchases... another leg falls off.

    Russia is starting from a position of weakness because the west, in general and the US in particular control everything... especially in terms of international finance... and Putin using military strength is not going to change that... any more than it would help the US to try to use military strength against Russia to make them behave the way the US wants... as a resource rich colony they can rape.

    Putin has done a brilliant job of things and those people whining about what he has or has not achieved... show me one Russian who could have done better... the chess player? The communist?


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    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat May 05, 2018 10:42 am

    GarryB wrote:

    Putin has done a brilliant job of things and those people whining about what he has or has not achieved... show me one Russian who could have done better... the chess player? The communist?

    I just wonder if people calling Putin weak because he didnt start war are ready to die? or at least have no supermarkets open with supplies and water? doctors and drug stores? luxuries like clean clothes or electricity I wont mention
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    Hole

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Hole on Sat May 05, 2018 11:42 am

    Yup. All this guys that scream "he showed weakness in syria because he didn´t start WWIII after the three western stooges pissed on the garden hut" should take up a gun and go to eastern syria to fight against the ami. Let the rest of us live.
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    ZoA

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  ZoA on Sat May 05, 2018 5:59 pm

    Putin fanboys generally have poor understanding of economy or international relations. If WW3 starts it will be because of policy of appeasement when US  imperialist will expect they can get away with anything without personal consequences. A single Tu-160 with dozen Kh-101 (conventional warhead) hitting private residences of French, UK, Israeli and US highest rank officers would make sure they newer again commit provocations like they do in Syria. Such cruise missiles strikes doesn't even have to kill antibody, just demonstration of ability and willingness to impose direct consequences in form of personal property destruction or potential of death will dissuade those officers from perusing confrontation with Russia or it's allays.

    You wonder why Israel does not dare to bomb Lebanon, jet it regularity gets to bombs Syria with impunity. Because in 2006 they got few weeks of constant bombardment at the hand of Hesbolah, and they dont' dare to suffer through it again. On another hand they know Syrians and Russians are appeasing pansies and they can bomb them without repercussions, so they are doing exactly that.

    In addition of incompetent craven appeasement Putin is also guilty of incompetent domestic liberal economic polices that are hampering domestic growth and allowing exploration by foreign banking and corporate interest. He newer prosecuted Yeltsin and his gang of traitors, he pardoned or allowed to get of with only minimal punishment number of corrupt oligarchs and politicians, he allows traitors like Kudrin to tell him how to run his government, he appointed Kudrin poppet protege to head CBR, and it keeps going on and on. Only reason peple think he's something good beuse they are putting him in contrast with Yeltsin or utterly degenerate politicians in North America and Europe west of Belarus. But that does not make him good. It makes him only marginally less incompetent when compared to boiling cauldron of diarrhoea that is western liberal politics nowadays.
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    kvs

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  kvs on Sat May 05, 2018 7:42 pm

    ZoA wrote:Putin fanboys generally have poor understanding of economy or international relations. If WW3 starts it will be because of policy of appeasement when US  imperialist will expect they can get away with anything without personal consequences. A single Tu-160 with dozen Kh-101 (conventional warhead) hitting private residences of French, UK, Israeli and US highest rank officers would make sure they newer again commit provocations like they do in Syria. Such cruise missiles strikes doesn't even have to kill antibody, just demonstration of ability and willingness to impose direct consequences in form of personal property destruction or potential of death will dissuade those officers from perusing confrontation with Russia or it's allays.

    You wonder why Israel does not dare to bomb Lebanon, jet it regularity gets to bombs Syria with impunity. Because in 2006 they got few weeks of constant bombardment at the hand of Hesbolah, and they dont' dare to suffer through it again. On another hand they know Syrians and Russians are appeasing pansies and they can bomb them without repercussions, so they are doing exactly that.

    In addition of incompetent craven appeasement Putin is also guilty of incompetent domestic liberal economic polices that are hampering domestic growth and allowing exploration by foreign banking and corporate interest. He newer prosecuted Yeltsin and his gang of traitors, he pardoned or allowed to get of with only minimal punishment number of corrupt oligarchs and politicians, he allows traitors like Kudrin to tell him how to run his government, he appointed Kudrin poppet protege to head CBR, and it keeps going on and on. Only reason peple think he's something good beuse they are putting him in contrast with Yeltsin or utterly degenerate politicians in North America and Europe west of Belarus. But that does not make him good. It makes him only marginally less incompetent when compared to boiling cauldron of diarrhoea that is western liberal politics nowadays.

    You just left the reservation of credibility.   If your smear had any validity then Russia would be exactly like Ukraine, an oligarch banana republic.  
    Yeltsin basically achieved this state of rot by 1999.  It was Putin who cleaned it up and increased real wages by over 500%.   Of course, you
    "everyone is a critic" experts use your expert gut feelings to claim that Putin did not do enough.  As if he was really the tyrant that the NATO hate
    propaganda paints him to be.   So basically you are part of another collection of Russia haters but pissing on it from a different direction.  

    Putin the "appeaser" would never have taken back Crimea and launched the campaign to restore Syria.   He would have let NATO declare a
    no fly zone over Syria and gang rape it like they did Libya.

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    Re: Anti-Putin Discussion

    Post  Vann7 on Sun May 06, 2018 3:27 am

    Check this report...
    While i don't agree with many things he says... it confirms many of the things
    i have been saying for a very very long time..

    Putin don't understand Soft Power
    That is don't know how to influence the west..

    https://russia-insider.com/en/putin-has-shown-weakness-armenia-and-syria-his-credibility-collapsing/ri23361


    While Russia invested in Ukraine for more than a decade up to $200 billions in cheap gas discounts and economical aid..
    to get Ukraine close to Russian orbit..  Americans with only $5 billions investment managed to get a revolution
    against Russia in Kiev..

    Soft Power = Influence =

    Is not Putin weakness what makes Russia to experience the problems it have today... with US and Europe.
    While being strong character can help Putin image.. and get even more support inside Russia.. in the end
    is not a personality issue..Russia problems. but a BUSINESS issue.. a lack of vision issue.. a lack of ambitions
    the lack of competition to the west.. lack of leadership instead.. with western civlian business.

    Putin personality being strong or weak ,will actually don't do much difference at all..
    Being a Strong personality helps to convince.. people with words... and nice speeches.. but in the
    end , is real physical things.. real development what will matter. real innovative business ,real quality of life
    ,what will have the last word.

    I don't think i have called Putin weak , but Insecure instead..
    Putin taking Crimea that was not weak... and Putin going to Syria in a very hard
    mission was a real act of courage. of Putin. that nobody can question..

    So is not weakness the issue..but a lack of leadership instead,
    Putin problem.
    on how his policies ,ends creating the problems Russia face not only with Americans
    but with the 5th column in Russia.

    So it will not be so bad is Putin problem was weakness only... .
    There are strong leaders.. like Chavez for example.. or Castro that their revolutions failed..
    It is the lack of Business competition they offered to the AMerican empire .. you see CUba and venezuela offered social aid..But their business and quality of life could not counter what US could offer.  neither Russian business could..
    So food and social aid is not enough.. those nations lacked of any kind of soft power or influence to influence
    young generations to love their country and prefer it over US... this is what makes all latin American pro Independence countries ,to fail  ,Words alone ,speeches alone and winning medals in the olympics is not going
    to counter American influence - soft power in the world.. Having a developed and modern nation with all the business you like IS what will make the difference between a revolution to win or to fail.


    If i was Putin..
    1) i will have reduced to zero , $0.00 the money invested in sports.. fuck sports..and privatize it all..
    to people he can trust..
    1.5)Privatize Russia Energy Industry ,sold it to Germany and France with the condition they can't sell it
    back.. that way it can't be sanctioned.. and with the money won with the sale ,invest it in space or military or both.

    2)Restart the soviet ambitious space program.. space shuttles ,with Moon,mars and Venus projects ,with a manned landing in the moon and mars moon probes ,with aims to be first country with space tourism ,around the moon..with several projects at same time..
    3)military of space very important..
    4)Completely stop the victory parades...or at least celebrate it every 10 years.. to save money.
    5)completely end the financing of Veterans of world war 2 ,abroad..
    6)Stop the worship of the past..and reinvent Russia culture into a new modern one.. leave the past for museums
    and tourism and only that..
    7)Invest heavily in defeating American top IT bussines.. Intel,Apple,Nvidia,Entertainment Industry ,Movie Industry..
    gaming industry and Music industry.. and offer Japan an alliance ,to produce the next Console Playstation 5 between both nations..
    8)Free energy ,green energy revolution.. intelligent houses ,that are self independent and produce their own energy.
    9)New Internet..
    10)new banking system..
    11)Create futuristic Cities.. that are self sufficient in free energy and clean transportation. sun illumination,
    free internet..and with controlled weather and temperature.

    From all those measures.. Only the last one,... #10  is what Putin is doing... but this is far from Enough.
    RUssia needs to totally breaks US business domination in the world and provide an alternative or outmatch them.
    break the image of US as world leader in Development and promote a new technology/Space/banking alliance with Russia and China as the new world leaders in development.

    This is how you destroy American Empire in a safe way ,by defeating their influence their business in the world..
    Once Russia and China create such a system.. many nations will join and US leadership will shrink and realize that
    their own existence is at risk...and that it can benefit enormously..from having good relations with Russia.
    American elites biggest nightmares are not Russia hypersonic nukes that they know Russia will never use..
    as long they play in the same attacking Russia through proxies or throught sabotage on Russia economy.
    What will give nightmares that their  IT and Entertainment technology innovative industry ,Lose its dominance to Russia and China.  Somewhere it was said..that about 30% of US economy comes from US entertainment and IT industry. alone. Russia could also try a Sino-Japanesse-South Korean ,Russian alliance. such kind of alliance could truly more easily destroy US business System and leadership in the world.

    Only when Russia is no longer seen in the world as an Outdated Nation ,that depends on Nukes to get some
    attention , and stop being a gas station as Obama told.. then its competition will start to listen to Russia..
    when Russia start leading the world (instead of following the american system) , with innovative Business that outmatch the things the west is developing ..and doing.. Russia engineers can produce very advanced things
    but all that is lost.. if Russia government (just like Americans did with spaceX) does not create an environment
    for advanced technology business to grow.. inventing something in a laboratory like Russia do all the time and having a successful business with their new technology is not the same thing.. Russia allowed Yotaphone to be sold to China..   Laughing  something that could have boosted Russia image in the world.  No  So is lack of vision of Putin and lack of Leadership of Russia what is really creating the problems of lack of Russia influence in the world.. that is not taken seriously by the west..  Putin told.. You did not listen... and they will continue ignoring Russia.. because those Hypersonic Missiles will not change any plans of Americans.. will not stop US sanctions and US interference in Russia interest in the world. for the simply reason that Russia nuclear program pose no NEGATIVE consequences for Americans as long they don't use nukes . But if Russia had companies ,out pacing American Silicon Valley Giants..
    then you will see them in horror ,in SHock and very worried about their economy ,and changing their tone..
    being more polite with Russia and respectful and even speaking about partnership with Russia.  lol1 .

    Americans only understand 2 things ,that is Leadership and Force.
    Putin understand how Force can influence Americans.. but he don't understand how Russia Leadership
    of its business (soft power) is more deadly than force..and can truly knock out the American empire.
    You throw a hypersonic missile armed with a nuclear bomb in New York..and kill a million people and will have 349 millions Americans angry with Russia ,aligned behind Washington DC.  But if Russia was landing in the moon with Cosmonauts now.. showing how the APollo program was fake.. you will have 100% of the american people praising
    Russia ,celebrating their victory and demanding their Government to stop its hostilities towards Russia and make peace. Very simple things to understand ,but Putin don't see any of this.. if he saw it.. He will never be reducing
    the budget of space.. the west only praise Leaders.. nothing more and nothing else.. and respect force.
    So Russia needs to be a leader again..as Soviet union at one time was.. on its best times ,and not allow US to
    outmatch Russia in space and /or other important Innovative technology Business to compete with the west .


    Last edited by Vann7 on Sun May 06, 2018 5:18 am; edited 3 times in total

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