Domestic production of marine engines for Russian Navy

mnztr wrote:they really need to electrify and switch to the power plants from the Ice Breakers. This way all they will be building is generators, diesel, turbine, nuclear, who cares. Since they can build the motors domestically they should just ramp this up. Come up with a standard modular gearbox that is scalable and be done with it. Min 2 screws, medium 3 screws and really large 4 screws.

Electric propulsion in ships has been around for like a century. It is not used more because it is more expensive. You need generator, electric engine combination instead of just adding a shaft. Guess what is cheaper.

lancelot wrote:

mnztr wrote:they really need to electrify and switch to the power plants from the Ice Breakers. This way all they will be building is generators, diesel, turbine, nuclear, who cares. Since they can build the motors domestically they should just ramp this up. Come up with a standard modular gearbox that is scalable and be done with it. Min 2 screws, medium 3 screws and really large 4 screws.

Electric propulsion in ships has been around for like a century. It is not used more because it is more expensive. You need generator, electric engine combination instead of just adding a shaft. Guess what is cheaper.

You already have generators on a ship. With electric propulsion you can also use a simpler gearbox as well as get much greater efficiency and redundancy. Very few things are done with Naval tech because they are the cheapest. The fuel savings do provide cost offset and improve range and flexiblity. Also the flexibility allows you to used standarized parts.

mnztr wrote:You already have generators on a ship. With electric propulsion you can also use a simpler gearbox as well as get much greater efficiency and redundancy. Very few things are done with Naval tech because they are the cheapest. The fuel savings do provide cost offset and improve range and flexiblity. Also the flexibility allows you to used standarized parts.

The generators don't need to be as large. Just enough to power electric systems on a ship like electronics and radar. Electric generators and engines use loads of copper. Which is not cheap. The reduction gear and shaft will likely be made of just steel.

lancelot wrote:
The generators don't need to be as large. Just enough to power electric systems on a ship like electronics and radar. Electric generators and engines use loads of copper. Which is not cheap. The reduction gear and shaft will likely be made of just steel.

The cost of a few tons of copper is just a rounding error in the price of building a warship. Even at Russian dockyard prices. We are talking about a country that built entire submarines out of titanium

mnztr wrote:

lancelot wrote:
The generators don't need to be as large. Just enough to power electric systems on a ship like electronics and radar. Electric generators and engines use loads of copper. Which is not cheap. The reduction gear and shaft will likely be made of just steel.

The cost of a few tons of copper is just a rounding error in the price of building a warship. Even at Russian dockyard prices. We are talking about a country that built entire submarines out of titanium

The weight of the electric equipment goes up with the power, so it is not neglectable weight if we go to a full electric power generation and distribution. And in some cases gearboxes can be still used even with an electric propulsion.

With electrics, no need for reverse gear, no need for as much reduction as max torque is at zero RPM, able to just upsize gensets to provide super efficient cruise power, much shorter shaftlines, able to locate gensets in multiple locations to provide redundancy. even if its 100 tons of copper its a milliion bucks, still a rounding error in warship economics.

Electric power is the way forward... an electric motor is an electric generator when attached to any sort of motor... as technology improves and the performance of electric motors improves they start to make more and more sense.

Going for electric drive does not mean giving up gas turbines or diesel engines or even nuclear power, it means a shift from linking all the propulsion systems together with expensive and complex gearboxes and generators and getting rid of drive shafts and freeing up lots of space on a ship and being able to mount things where they are more useful.

If you look at a motor car traditionally you had the engine front and centre with a gearbox and drive shaft delivering power to two or four wheels depending on the model. You needed complex mechanisms like the differential because when turning a corner the wheels on the outside of the corner move a greater distance than the wheels on the inside of the same corner so without a differential the inner wheels will skid and spin and you will lose grip, so you add a differential to reduce the rate the inner wheels spin so they both keep their tread on the road and retain grip.

With an electric car you simply put an electric motor inside each wheel hub. They can be individually controlled for corners and precise acceleration so no skids or wheel spins like the acceleration of anti skid brakes. When moving you can generate power with your wheels... rolling down a hill with no brakes can be used to top up the batteries... driving to work you can have the front or rear wheels driving the vehicle and the other wheels gathering electrical charge... it wont be anywhere near 100% efficiency but it will be some power.

To generate the power or your power source, you need either a battery or a motor... traditionally a battery uses stored chemicals to create a reaction to generate electricity, while a motor uses a fuel to generate electricity... motors can include internal combustion engines and gas turbines and hydrogen fuel cells, while batteries can be wet or dry cells... batteries are coming on in leaps and bounds but having a motor that can boost power and charge the battery while on the move is very common these days... but then a gas turbine can be tiny and generate a decent level of electrical power to both directly drive the electric motors in the wheels and at the same time charge the batteries.

The point is that you don't need drive shafts, you don't need reversing gear, you don't need a gear box... electrical cables can carry electricity to where it is needed in the car so you could put a small gas turbine almost anywhere and the batteries could all be under the floor for a low centre of gravity for the vehicle... Lithium Ion batteries are much lighter than old lead acid batteries anyway and have rather more storage capacity.

Prospects for the development of marine engine building in Russia

June 25th, 17:22

The TASS news agency published the material "The heart of warships. What are the prospects for the development of Russia's naval engine building", which states that on the eve of the International Maritime Defense Show (IMDS-2021) in St. Petersburg, specialists of the United Engine Corporation (UEC, part of the state corporation Rostec ") told TASS about the creation of power plants for the newest Russian ships. Project 22350 lead frigate" Admiral of the Soviet Union Fleet Gorshkov ".

The construction of engines for warships in the ocean and sea zone is one of the key technologies - any modern navy (Navy) is unthinkable without reliable, powerful and efficient propulsion systems. Serial production of engines for corvettes and frigates largely determines the future prospects and directions of modernization of the Navy.

During the Cold War, the Soviet Union focused on the development of marine propulsion engineering - the country produced its own power plants for all types of warships. Particular attention is paid to this area of ​​mechanical engineering in Russia - after the collapse of the USSR, it was decided to create a Russian naval base for gas turbine construction. Already in 2006 and 2008, by order of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, development work (R&D) was successfully completed on the creation of domestic marine gas turbine engines: in particular, two marine gas turbine engines were developed - M75RU with a capacity of 7000 hp. and M70FRU with a capacity of 14,000 hp.

In 2014, the second stage of the program was launched to develop and master the manufacture of marine gas turbine engines (GTE) and gas turbine units. In particular, at the end of 2017, three R&D

projects were carried out at UEC: • to develop a technology for serial production of an engine with a capacity of 27,500 hp. for use as part of gas turbine units (GTU) of displacement ships;

• on the development of a GTA based on the M70FRU-2 engine for hovercraft;

• on the development of a reversible GTE M70FRU-R for displacement ships.

"Within the framework of the existing scientific and technical groundwork and the results of the development work on the basic M70FRU gas turbine engine, over three years, new modifications of engines and units have been created, which make it possible to completely replace the Ukrainian power plants for air cushion ships and reversible engines in operation," TASS told TASS Deputy General Director - General Designer of the UEC Yuri Shmotin. "The development of a 27,500 hp gas turbine engine in serial production allows for the completion of the customer's main power plants and makes it possible to create units for promising ships," he added.

For three years, not only three most complicated works were completed, but also technical re-equipment of the enterprise, technological preparation of production, construction of a bench base for testing marine engines and assemblies were carried out. At the end of 2017, design work and construction of the assembly and test complex were successfully completed.

"As of today, UEC has created a line of marine gas turbine engines with a capacity of 7,000 to 27,500 hp, which in the short and medium term covers the fleet's needs for gas turbine engines for all under construction and prospective ships of various classes," said UEC Deputy General Director Viktor Polyakov. Thus, UEC has competencies in design (development), serial production, warranty, after-sales service and repair of marine-grade GTEs and units based on them.

At present, UEC has mastered the production of marine engines for all surface ships of the Russian Navy with gas turbine power plants. "In particular, the corporation is ready to provide the Navy with engines for use in air-cushion landing ships of projects 12061 and 12322, corvettes of project 20386, frigates of projects 22350 / 22350M and 11356, as well as ships in operation during their modernization," UEC.

Engines for frigates

For the newest frigates of Project 22350, the corporation has mastered the production of the M90FR gas turbine engine, which is used as part of the M55R diesel-gas turbine unit. "In 2020, UEC delivered the first two M55R units for the frigate Admiral Golovko to Severnaya Verf. At the moment, the third unit for the frigate Admiral Isakov has been successfully tested and the fourth unit is being tested to complete this ship," UEC, noting that the fourth diesel-gas turbine unit is planned for delivery after the completion of bench tests in July-August 2021. Project 22350 frigates "Admiral Golovko" and "Admiral Isakov" are the third and fourth ships of the series.

It is assumed that the M90FR will become the basis for advanced marine engines. In particular, the UEC is considering options for creating a 25 MW engine based on the M90FR. Shmotin said that the results will also be a scientific and technical groundwork for the development of engines in the power range of 25-35 MW.

The corporation stressed that the corporation can fully supply the state customer with GTE and GTA in the required volumes. "For today, the planned volume of supplies is about 20 M90FR gas turbine engines," the UEC reported.

It is worth noting that ships with foreign-made engines can also be equipped with M90FR during re-engining. “However, taking into account the“ age ”of the ships and the need to attract serious funds for the modernization of the main power plants and control systems of the ship, such a decision was not made, - the corporation says.

The corporation also prepared for the after-sales service of M90FR engines - for this purpose, a separate subsidiary was created. According to experts, the M90FR engine is not inferior to foreign analogues and corresponds to the world trends in the development of 4th generation marine GTEs.

Work is underway to create the latest power plants. In particular, a project is underway to develop a gas turbine unit for a promising frigate. The M70FRU will be used as the main engine, and the M90FR, developed by the UEC, will be used as the afterburner.

New engines

for new corvettes For use in the power plant of promising project 20386 corvettes, UEC has developed a modification of the M90FR engine. "Two engines have been manufactured, successfully tested and ready for handover to the customer," the press service added.

In addition, the corporation has created a number of unified M70FRU engines with a capacity of 8000–10000 MW for ships of various purposes - corvettes, small rocket ships, small artillery ships, as well as ships with dynamic support (amphibious assault ships on an air cushion).

The basic modification M70FRU was developed in 2008 (according to the results of the MVI, the product documentation was assigned the letter "O1"). Initially, this engine was intended for project 20380 corvettes, however, these ships were then equipped with diesel power plants (including those of foreign production), so there were no orders for the supply of serial M70FRU engines.

Within the framework of the state import substitution program, in the period from 2014 to 2017, UEC created two modifications of this engine - the M70FRU-R GTE with a reversible power turbine (for surface ships) and the M70FRU-2 GTE with a forward power outlet (for air-cushion landing craft). As part of this work, new, more modern engine systems were introduced on the engine - a local automated control system, a vibration diagnostics system, fuel system units, etc. During the development of the M70FRU and its modifications, technologies were applied that correspond to current global trends - according to experts, this power plant belongs to the fourth generation and is at the level of foreign analogues.

Based on the results of the work performed, the readiness of serial production of new modifications of the M70FRU GTE was confirmed, and several experimental delivery engines M70FRU-2 have already been manufactured for subsequent use as part of the Project 12061 Murena and 12322 Zubr air-cushion landing craft. In addition, the basic modification of the M70FRU GTE, taking into account the above modernization, is planned for use as part of the main gas turbine unit of a promising frigate.

Marine engines and diversification of production

At the moment, UEC has created a dual-fuel modification of the M90FR engine, which may be in demand in the gas industry, for example, as part of drilling platforms.

On the basis of M70FRU, a civil marine engine - E70 / 8RD was also developed. "On the basis of E70 / 8RD, the SGTG-8 gas turbine electric generator has been created," Shmotin said. Both E70 / 8RD and SGTG-8 have passed all the necessary tests and are ready for serial production.

UEC is ready to supply all of the aforementioned civilian engines, the corporation added.

"Rostec is consistently implementing programs for the development of modern engines of all types. The creation of offshore gas turbine power plants and units is a high-tech high-tech process. Only a few manufacturers in the world have such competencies. We are ready to meet the needs of Russian shipbuilders in new power plants," said Vladimir Artyakov, the first Deputy General Director of Rostec State Corporation.

Prospects for the development of the

UEC is already forming a scientific and technical groundwork for the creation of a 5th generation marine engine. "As a groundwork, we mean the results of the implementation of a preliminary project for the development of a 25 MW marine engine with a low-emission combustion chamber of marine design and the development of new high-temperature corrosion-resistant alloys," Shmotin informed, adding that the corporation is also creating a marine power plant of increased power - in particular, within the framework of an agreement with the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation, a preliminary project is being implemented to develop an engine with a capacity of 34,000 hp. (25 MW). As priority directions for further development of ship engines, UEC singles out the creation of engines with a capacity of 25–35 and 13 MW.

Along with the creation of new marine engines, the modernization of their development and production processes is being carried out. Since December 2020, within the framework of an agreement with the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation, research work has been carried out to create a digital twin of a marine gas turbine engine and a gearbox. "The deadline for the completion of work is October 2023. In the process of implementing this project, UEC must obtain an operating technology / platform for creating digital twins, which will be used in all subsequent developments of new products," Shmotin said.

Additive technologies are increasingly used in the design of engines - the first positive experience of their application in the field of marine engines was obtained during the creation of the M70FRU-R engine.

At present, UEC is already using domestic materials created using additive technologies and not inferior in their characteristics to foreign counterparts.

In addition, the development and application of new materials for the creation of thermal barrier coatings for the blades of the hot part of the engine, which make it possible to increase the gas temperature in front of the turbine and thereby increase the power of the power plant. "Within the framework of the agreement with the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation, research work is being carried out aimed at developing new high-temperature corrosion-resistant alloys," Shmotin summed up.

Dmitry Fedyushko

TASS thanks the press service of the UEC for the help in preparing the material . The M90FR ship gas turbine engine United Engine Corporation JSC

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4337134.html

So these engines and their developments will be for frigates and air cushion vehicles and corvettes in various combinations.

For Destroyer and Cruiser and indeed CVN and perhaps even helicopter carrier they will need nuclear propulsion systems, but could still use some of these engines as generators for backup and emergency use on these larger ships.

Now they have mastered them things should progress a bit faster hopefully.

GarryB wrote:So these engines and their developments will be for frigates and air cushion vehicles and corvettes in various combinations.
For Destroyer and Cruiser and indeed CVN and perhaps even helicopter carrier they will need nuclear propulsion systems, but could still use some of these engines as generators for backup and emergency use on these larger ships.
Now they have mastered them things should progress a bit faster hopefully.

The engines they already have are enough for a cruiser of displacement similar to the Udaloy. This will be the Project 22350M "frigate".
US Arleigh Burke class destroyer uses four 20MW gas turbine engines similar to M90FR.

That 25MW-35MW engine they are talking about making would be enough for a cruiser of similar displacement to Chinese one.
Chinese cruiser uses four 28MW gas turbine engines.

The first MGT for the 4th Pr.22350 Adm Isakov has arrived at Severnay Verf  

Can't see much under the tarpaulin but its good to see it nonetheless!



Edit: seems like this is the Kolomna 10D49 diesel unit that is part of the "Russifed" M55R powertrain. The M90FRs and the reduction gearboxes to replace the Ukro-orc junk would be seperate shipments.

The engines they already have are enough for a cruiser of displacement similar to the Udaloy. This will be the Project 22350M "frigate".
US Arleigh Burke class destroyer uses four 20MW gas turbine engines similar to M90FR.

Udaloy is less than 8K tons and in its current form is being designated a frigate by the Russian Navy.

I rather suspect their new Destroyers will have nuclear/Electric propulsion and so will their Cruisers to improve their endurance, but the Improved Gorshkov will probably benefit from these more powerful upgrades of these engines.

The United Engine Corporation (UEC, part of the state tech corporation Rostec) delivered a domestically-made M55R seaborne diesel/gas turbine power unit to the Severnaya Verf Shipyard for the Project 22350 frigate Admiral Isakov, the Rostec press office reported on Wednesday.

https://tass.com/defense/1322575

George1 wrote:

The United Engine Corporation (UEC, part of the state tech corporation Rostec) delivered a domestically-made M55R seaborne diesel/gas turbine power unit to the Severnaya Verf Shipyard for the Project 22350 frigate Admiral Isakov, the Rostec press office reported on Wednesday.

https://tass.com/defense/1322575

The article states it was the 4th unit delivered to Severnaya, so it means they have delivered 2 complete powertrains, one for the Golovko and now Isakov.    

Eat shit Zorya Mashproekt        

GarryB wrote:

The engines they already have are enough for a cruiser of displacement similar to the Udaloy. This will be the Project 22350M "frigate".
US Arleigh Burke class destroyer uses four 20MW gas turbine engines similar to M90FR.

Udaloy is less than 8K tons and in its current form is being designated a frigate by the Russian Navy.

I rather suspect their new Destroyers will have nuclear/Electric propulsion and so will their Cruisers to improve their endurance, but the Improved Gorshkov will probably benefit from these more powerful upgrades of these engines.

Actually Frigate designation is an upgrade in Russian nomenclature, as it indicate them as a full multirole vessel.

Confusion arise from the fact thet we in the "West" called them destroyer but Soviet designation was "large Antisubmarine Ship".

sounds good

why they chose such a complicated gearbox design .... I don't understand
CODOG is much simpler than CODAG

but then they were just cloning the Ukrainian gearbox setup
from a decision was made a long time ago

https://en.topwar.ru/196463-glava-rosteha-chemezov-soobschil-o-nachale-serijnogo-proizvodstva-gazoturbinnyh-dvigatelej-dlja-fregatov-proekta-22350.html

in any case Russia's larger surface fleet is coming back to life
without Ukraine .... US will hate that

I love this stuff ...

"Small missile ships of the project 22800 - Russian series of multi-purpose missile and artillery ships of the near sea zone (small corvettes). The main purpose of the MRK is to conduct combat operations in the near sea zone and perform tasks independently and as part of ship groups."

translation .... mobile missile launch platforms that operate underneath the air defence umbrella of shore based missiles and aircraft ....
mostly inside bays .... etc

https://topwar.ru/196541-pervyj-mrk-karakurt-proekta-22800-strojaschijsja-na-amurskom-ssz-dlja-tof-poluchil-glavnyj-dvigatel.html

the delay they talk about is I believe .. related to an anti-sub version
to replace older Grisha boats
why not if you are waiting for diesel engines .... makes perfect sense

as is the normal strategy of Soviet navy
most of the navy defends the bases of long range nuke subs in their most vulnerable zone
close to base

sounds like a good hull ....
apparently the Pantsir is deleted aft .... and more vertical launch tubes for anti-sub missiles
and towed array and a couple of 30mm R2D2s instead ....

standardisation is a good thing .... at any time

Rostec starts mass production of M-55R gas turbine engines

Rostec has started mass production of new M-55R gas turbine engines for Russian frigates, the head of the state corporation reported.

"We have created a new marine diesel-gas turbine unit M-55R, this is a new engine that is installed on our frigates. This is our first Russian such engine. We are already mass-producing it, " Chemezov said.

The new unit is designed to equip a series of frigates of Project 22350 under construction as part of the import substitution program to replace power plants previously supplied by Ukraine.

The first frigate equipped with the new engine was the third in the series frigate "Admiral Golovko".

Source: https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/146835/

sepheronx wrote:Rostec starts mass production of M-55R gas turbine engines

Another strategic victory over the West and their Ukropisstainian satraps!!    

"Russia lacks the technology to develop MGTs"....  

Once production rates are up, it would be good to start selling them to every other customer of Zorya Maskproekt, starting with India. Assuming of course that this particular Ukropi MIC entity doesn't end up being controlled by Russia/Free Ukraine

It would be nice to see ZM back up and running at 5% throughput producing spares for Russian ships that use their turbines. No new sets, just support for Russian navy.

It should also mean they can lay down a few more frigates and once they get the improved heavier gorshkov in the water and tested they can decide if bigger is better or worse and whether they go with an all heavy fleet or all standard size or a mix of both.

Perhaps heavy frigates for Northern and Pacific Fleets and standard frigates in the Baltic and Black Sea, or maybe the heavier boats just turn out to be all round better so only heavy frigates built moving forwards for all four open sea fleets.

With the arctic ice melting more and more each year perhaps another arctic fleet port could be set up that is further away from the prying eyes of HATO in Norway and soon Finland?

The Baltic and Northern Fleets are a bit close to HATO territory, perhaps an extra port along Russias northern coast could be used for military ships and subs.

FLOT.COM
January 25, 2023 at 14:37 Subject: Industry

UEC-Saturn spoke about savings due to new technologies for the production of engine parts


The Rybinsk enterprise "UEC-Saturn" (part of the United Engine Corporation) has introduced new technologies for processing engine parts. According to Interfax with reference to the press service of the UEC, due to innovations, the cost of their manufacture has been reduced.
"The Rybinsk enterprise UEC-Saturn, thanks to the introduction of the technology of complex processing of parts, reduced the cost of their manufacture by 35% in 2022," the press service of the corporation said.


Marine gas turbine engine M70FRU
Military.RF, Andrey Sergeev

According to the UEC, in 2023 the number of power plant elements processed in this way will increase by 10%.
“A significant economic effect is associated with a reduction in the cost of cutting tools and a reduction in machine processing time. The new method, in comparison with traditional blade and erosion methods, also provides high accuracy and productivity,” said Igor Ilyin, chief engineer of UEC-Saturn.

"UEC-Saturn" specializes in the development and production of gas turbine aircraft engines, as well as power generating and gas pumping units for ships and ships.

In May 2022, it was reported that the United Engine Corporation had mastered mass production of new M55R gas turbine engines for Russian frigates.

https://flot.com/2023/%D0%9E%D0%B4%D0%BA1/

lancelot wrote:

mnztr wrote:You already have generators on a ship. With electric propulsion you can also use a simpler gearbox as well as get much greater efficiency and redundancy. Very few things are done with Naval tech because they are the cheapest. The fuel savings do provide cost offset and improve range and flexiblity. Also the flexibility allows you to used standarized parts.

The generators don't need to be as large. Just enough to power electric systems on a ship like electronics and radar. Electric generators and engines use loads of copper. Which is not cheap. The reduction gear and shaft will likely be made of just steel.

Sufficient electric generation is crucial for a naval vessel. There should be at least 50% redundancy margin. In the German navy there is, traditionally even full 100% margin. So, electric power should make possible to obtain full supply functionality even in case of combat damage.

Electric propulsion requires a huge increase in the size of a ships electrical generation and distribution grid.  You not only need motors of multiple MW capacity to drive the props (or podded thrusters) but you also need huge VF electrical drive systems to control them.