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    New Contest for IAF Single Engine Fighter Aircraft

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    Pinto
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    New Contest for IAF Single Engine Fighter Aircraft

    Post  Pinto on Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:52 am

    IAF kicks off contest to make single-engine fighters in India

    A global contest has restarted for supplying India a medium, multi-role fighter, with the Indian Air Force (IAF) inviting top international fighter jet manufacturers to set up a production facility in India.

    Business Standard has learned that Indian embassies in Washington, Moscow and Stockholm wrote on Friday tofighter jet manufacturers in these countries to confirm whether they would partner an Indian company in building a medium, single-engine fighter, with significant transfer of technology to the Indian entity.


    The confidential document sent by the embassies is not technically a “Request for Information” (RFI), which is a precursor to a “Request for Proposals” (also known as a tender). However, it serves the same purpose, which is to determine which vendors are interested and what they are willing to offer.

    By specifying that the IAF requires a single-engine fighter, the latest letter differs from an earlier tender, issued in 2007, for 126 medium, multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA). The MMRCA tender, which had no such stipulation, saw six vendors fielding four twin-engine and two single-engine fighters. The twin-engine offerings included Dassault’s Rafale, Eurofighter GmbH’s Typhoon, Boeing’s F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and RAC MiG’s MiG-35. The single-engine fighters offered were Lockheed Martin’s F-16IN Super Viper and Saab’s Gripen D.

    The much-hyped MMRCA tender eventually collapsed, with the IAF last month buying a token 36 Rafale fighters. Now, the IAF has kicked off a more focused contest that will feature only single-engine fighters.

    Numerous airpower experts have pointed out that the IAF needs single-engine fighters to replace the single-engine MiG-21 and MiG-27 fighters that must be retired in the near future. The Rafale, a medium-heavy, twin-engine fighter, is too expensive for operational tasks that asingle-engine fighter can easily manage.

    While Boeing, Eurofighter, RAC MiG, Sukhoi and Dassault would technically be able to respond to the latest RFI, none of them can offer a state-of-the-art, medium, single-engine fighter. Therefore, it seems likely that New Delhi would have to choose between Saab’s Gripen E, and Lockheed Martin’s latest F-16 Block 70.

    As Business Standard reported earlier, both Saab and Lockheed Martin have kicked off high-stakes, high-voltage campaigns to meet the IAF’s needs. Both have already submitted what theIAF chief described on Thursday as “unsolicited bids” for building their fighters in India.

    Saab has linked its offer with assistance to the indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) development programme, which is being spearheaded by Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), a unit of Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

    Saab has offered to help ADA in quickly developing the Tejas Mark IA, which the IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha, said required four improvements — a better combat radar, more lethal weapons, dedicated electronic warfare capability and better maintainability. He said the upgraded Tejas should fly within three-four years.

    Saab has also offered to help ADA develop the planned next-generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

    Meanwhile, Lockheed Martin is pushing an offer, made through the Indo-US Defence Trade and Technology Initiative (DTTI), to shift its F-16 production line from Fort Worth, Texas to India. A new, more advanced version of the F-16, designated the Block 70, has been offered to entice India.

    Air Headquarters insiders say there is little chance of India buying the F-16, a significantly advanced version of the Block 50/52 that the Pakistan Air Force operates. Since Washington is aware of this important bias, it remains to be seen whether the US seizes this opportunity to offer India the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, a state-of-the-art fifth-generation fighter.

    The IAF is keeping an open mind. On Thursday, Raha stated: “I’m sure whoever gives the best deal [will win]. All the aircraft are very capable, so it will depend upon who provides the best transfer of technology; and, of course, the price tag. It’s on the table; nothing is decided as yet.”

    http://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/iaf-kicks-off-contest-to-make-single-engine-fighters-116100800638_1.html

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    Finally, search begins for a fighter to replace MiG-21s

    Post  Pinto on Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:52 am

    The aircraft, to be manufactured in India, will replace the large number of ageing Mig-21s

    Within days of signing the deal to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets from France, the Defence Ministry has issued a Request For Information (RFI) to global aircraft manufacturers, formally starting the process to select yet another fighter to be built in India under technology transfer.

    Sources told The Hindu that an RFI for a single-engine fighter to be manufactured in India with extensive technology transfer was issued this week to countries involved in fighter aircraft manufacture. Based on the responses, a detailed RFP (Request for Proposal) would be issued later.

    Last month, India and France concluded a government-to-government deal worth €7.87-billion deal for 36 Rafale multi-role jets in flyaway condition.

    The selected aircraft is expected to replace the large number of MiG-21s in service, which will be phased out over the next few years.

    Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar has stated in the past that the Rafale, a medium-weight jet, is not a replacement for MiG-21s and another aircraft would be selected to replace the latter. He has also said these would be built in partnership with the private sector.

    Addressing the Indian Air Force on the 84th raising day, Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Arup Raha observed that an “early decision on indigenous ‘Make in India’ fighter aircraft project would greatly enhance our operational capability in the near term.”

    Boeing and Lockheed Martin of the U.S. and SAAB of Sweden have already submitted detailed proposals to manufacture their F-18, F-16 and Gripen jets respectively in India under the ‘Make in India’ initiative.


    http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/finally-search-begins-for-a-fighter-to-replace-mig21s/article9202548.ece

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    Re: New Contest for IAF Single Engine Fighter Aircraft

    Post  George1 on Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:51 am

    I had the impression that HAL Tejas was the single engine fighter that would replace old MiG-21s scratch


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    Re: New Contest for IAF Single Engine Fighter Aircraft

    Post  Pinto on Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:56 am

    George1 wrote:I had the impression that HAL Tejas was the single engine fighter that would replace old MiG-21s scratch

    you are absolutely right, Now it looks like the so called wise brains in MOD have decided to rope in Grippen. Its getting more n more tough to even wildy guess which way IAF is going after this govt came to power. F-16 is ruled out because of variety reason, 40 yrs old design and cant be re-engines

    Looks like someone is surely trying to kill surely but slowly only time will reveal the truth

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    Buying India's new light fighter. Not another MMRCA fiasco, please

    Post  Pinto on Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:41 pm

    By Ajai Shukla
    Business Standard, 11th Oct 16

    After the sorry compromise that was the Rafale fighter acquisition, the Indian Air Force (IAF) last week went back to the start line, initiating the purchase of a light fighter to replace the MiG-21s, MiG-23s and MiG-27s that once formed the bulk of its fleet, and still constitute one-third of it. Since Indian defence planners (assuming the breed actually exists) seldom learn from others’ mistakes, they must at least learn from their failed project to acquire 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA). Ironically, that too had started out 15 years ago as a programme to buy lots of light-to-medium fighters to replace the MiGs. The effort --- which would-be vendors obsequiously lauded as “the world’s most professionally run fighter acquisition programme” --- crashed in flames last year, with the decision to buy 36 Rafales. Inexplicably, the IAF has ended up with a small number of exorbitantly expensive fighters that would be criminally wasted on the combat roles the MiG fleet has played.

    Even so, fleet shortages in the IAF are so dire --- 33-34 operational fighter squadrons, against the 45 needed to handle a collusive threat from China and Pakistan --- that we must welcome the Rafale buy, even though it has cost Euro 7.87 billion. True, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) Nashik delivers 12-13 Sukhoi-30MKIs each year; and its Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) production line in Bengaluru is slowly ramping up production. Yet, with the remaining 11 MiG-21 and MiG-27 squadrons retiring soon, the shortfall will remain. And since the Rafales will only start being delivered after three years, there is no room for delay or misjudgement.

    It would be remembered that the air force began the MMRCA process on the right note, before the defence ministry put it into a downward dive from which it never recovered. In 2000-01, the IAF --- pleased with the Mirage 2000 after its accurate bombing of Pakistani mountain-top positions during the 1999 Kargil conflict --- proposed buying the Mirage 2000 production line from Dassault, which was closing it down to build the new Rafale. The plan was to transfer the line to HAL, which would build the well-regarded Mirage 2000-9, an export version of the French Air Force’s Mirage 2000-5 Mark 2. That was clearly the sensible thing to do. The IAF was familiar with the Mirage 2000; and had the training, maintenance and repair infrastructure, and had already developed Indian vendors for several sub-systems. Had the Mirage 2000 been chosen, the IAF would have had a highly capable, light, cheap fighter without complicating fleet logistics.

    But that was not to be. Defence Minister George Fernandes, rattled by the Tehelka sting, decided (backed by the National Democratic Alliance cabinet) that single-vendor procurement from Dassault might invite further charges of corruption. So Fernandes played it safe by sending out a global tender to multiple vendors. The IAF, its pragmatism replaced by the starry-eyed prospect of flying the world’s best (and most expensive!) fighters, framed expansive requirements that brought six fighters into contention. The rest is depressing history.

    The lessons from the MMRCA are clear. First, forswear bureaucratic and political caution in the national interest and quietly identify the best choice for India based on a matrix of performance, life-cycle cost, technology transfer and the strategic relationship with the vendor country --- rather than trying to identify, like in the past, the cheapest fighter that meets the IAF’s performance requirements. Politically motivated charges of corruption are inevitable, regardless of the integrity of the process; but larger political rewards lie in pushing through, in full public view, a badly needed acquisition that fills a gaping capability void. Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar, who has the confidence of a personally honest man, has already signalled that he can think boldly. Speaking on Doordarshan on April 13, 2015, soon after Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced in Paris that India would buy 36 Rafales, Mr Parrikar stated: “It is wrong to do an MMRCA type deal using an RfP (competitive tender) model. You cannot compare different types of aircraft like the F/A-18, Eurofighter and Rafale. All three have different strengths and capabilities. All three are probably good enough planes… These important decisions need to be taken at government-to-government levels.”

    Sadly, Mr Parrikar has disregarded his own advice while launching the light fighter acquisition. Like with the MMRCA, the letter of inquiry has been sent to numerous aerospace manufacturers, even those who do not have a single-engine, medium fighter to offer. When asked why, officials explained off-the-record that it was so that no vendor could later complain it was left out. This play-it-safe attitude is hardly suggestive of a purposive, focused, unapologetic procurement process to come.

    In fact, only two firms need be approached: American behemoth, Lockheed Martin, and Swedish defence firm, Saab; both of whom have quality single-engine fighters to “Make in India”. The former has already pitched with the defence ministry to build a new Block 70 variant of its F-16 Super Viper. Saab, too, has offered to build the new Gripen E, which is scheduled to make its first flight this year.

    While not much separates the two offers, Lockheed Martin clearly scores on one count, while Saab wins on other counts. Building the F-16 in India would strengthen the burgeoning US-India defence partnership, which is already creating skilled jobs in India. Choosing the Gripen, on the other hand, would bring in Swedish technologies in areas like the “airborne electronically scanned array” radar, which US export control regulations safeguard jealously. The Swedish dependency on any Indian partnership would allow New Delhi far greater leverage in bargaining for high technology than India could ever wield in Washington. Further, the Gripen E can be modified into an aircraft carrier borne fighter --- an option the F-16 does not have.

    The final determinant must be: which relationship would impart greater impetus to indigenous fighter programmes like the Tejas and the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft; and co-development programmes like the Indo-Russian Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft. In making his choice, Mr Parrikar should bear in mind that a quick, decisive verdict would save three years of ministry file-pushing and fill in operational gaps that are unacceptable, given the tensions in South Asia.

    http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2016/10/buying-indias-new-light-fighter-not_11.html

    medo
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    Re: New Contest for IAF Single Engine Fighter Aircraft

    Post  medo on Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:19 pm

    Does this mean, that Tejas project failed?

    Pinto
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    Re: New Contest for IAF Single Engine Fighter Aircraft

    Post  Pinto on Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:40 pm

    medo wrote:Does this mean, that Tejas project failed?

    Don't know bro what the thinking in govt is they are trying to kill Tejas it looks slowly but surely

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    Re: New Contest for IAF Single Engine Fighter Aircraft

    Post  TheArmenian on Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:40 am

    Here are my predictions:

    Year 2026: A winner will be announced
    Year 2031: The tender will be cancelled
    Year 2036: India will buy a small quantity of Tejas
    Year 2041: A new tender will be announced

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    Re: New Contest for IAF Single Engine Fighter Aircraft

    Post  Pinto on Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:15 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:Here are my predictions:

    Year 2026: A winner will be announced
    Year 2031: The tender will be cancelled
    Year 2036: India will buy a small quantity of Tejas
    Year 2041: A new tender will be announced

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    hahahahah True Smile

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    India Kicks Off New Search for MiG-21 Replacement

    Post  Pinto on Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:20 pm

    The Indian Ministry of Defense has issued a Request for Information (RFI) to global aircraft manufacturers.

    The Indian Ministry of Defense (MOD) has recently issued a Request for Information (RFI) to global aircraft manufacturers alerting international suppliers that there will be a new competition for the building of a new single-engine fighter aircraft under Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s “Make in India” initiative.

    The RFI will be followed by a detailed Request for Proposal (RFP) inviting aircraft makers to submit proposals including detailed technology transfer plans, historically one of the most difficult aspects of any defense deal in India.

    The Indian Air Force is in need of approximately 300 new light combat aircraft.

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    According to Indian Air Force (IAF) chief Arup Raha, India has already received “unsolicited offers” from Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and Saab to build the Lockheed Martin F-16 Block 70, Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet, and Saab Gripen E fighter jet in India.

    “This is very much on the table and I’m sure whoever gives the best deal [will win]. All the aircraft are very capable, so it will depend upon who provides the best transfer of technology; and, of course, the price tag. It’s on the table; nothing is decided as yet,” Raha told the Business Standard.

    “This will not be just licensed manufacture. It will be proper transfer of technology. Also, India will become a hub for manufacturing, as well as maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) for other air forces in the region,” he added.

    As I explained previously:

    U.S. defense contractors Boeing and Lockheed Martin[next to other aircraft makers], along with their F-16 and F-18 aircraft, were outbid in 2011 under the now-scrapped $20 billion MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project by French aircraft maker Dassault Aviation, with India opting for Dassault Aviation’s Rafale fighter instead in January 2012. However, the MMRCA project was cancelled after years of difficult negotiations in July 2015.

    Instead, India and French aircraft manufacturer Dassault Aviation signed an agreement valued at 7.87 billion euros for the sale of 36 off-the-shelf Dassault Rafale twin-engine aircraft in September.

    Saab has been involved in talks with Indian state-run aircraft maker Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) to collaborate on the upgraded version of the indigenously developed Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), dubbed the Tejas Mark-IA.

    “We should be able to start production of this aircraft by 2020-21; and in another five-seven years [i.e. by 2025-28], we’ll have 80 Tejas Mark 1A fighters,” according to Raha.

    The IAF plans to induct a total of 20 Tejas Mark-I aircraft by early 2018, but the program has been hampered by repeated delays and the MoD’s recent RFI makes it clear that the IAF will not solely rely on the Tejas LCA to replace its aging fleet of MIG-21 fighter jets.

    The first Tejas squadron will consist of the aircraft’s less advanced Mark-I variant with “initial operational certification (IOC),” according to Raha. “So in another year and a half’s time, we will have a full squadron of LCA’s – the IOC version,” he said.

    Raha also said that the “final operational certification” (FOC) of the Tejas was looming. “I’m sure in another five-six months FOC would be cleared and production will start as soon as [HAL] finishes producing the IOC version. So we expect that the FOC version [of the Tejas] will be operationalized in an IAF fighter squadron in another three years time.”

    http://thediplomat.com/2016/10/india-kicks-off-new-search-for-mig-21-replacement/

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    Re: New Contest for IAF Single Engine Fighter Aircraft

    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:15 pm

    I wonder if MiG might take this opportunity to submit a new single engine design perhaps based on their work for the LFI or LFS programme...


    A small affordable 5th gen light fighter would be a profitable investment as the only real competition will be the much heavier PAK FA and derivatives and anything the Chinese come up with and of course the expensive F-35.


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    Sweden’s SAAB sweetens deal for Gripen jet

    Post  Pinto on Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:31 pm

    To load the aircraft with latest radar technology and provide design consultancy for developing LCA Mk-1A.

    In an aggressive push to capture a share in India’s fighter aircraft market, Swedish aerospace major SAAB has offered its latest radar technology as part of the Gripen fighter package along with significant technology transfer in addition to design consultancy for developing the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Mk-1A which the Indian Air Force (IAF) plans to induct in large numbers.

    The move comes even as India is looking to select a single engine fighter aircraft to be built in India in large numbers under the ‘Make in India’ initiative.

    Explaining the developments in Advanced Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, Lars Tossman, vice-president & Head of Communications of SAAB said that they were the first company to develop an AESA radar with Gallium Nitride which, he said, significantly enhances its efficiency and performance over the current AESA radars.

    “We will be willing to share this and transfer the technology to India,” he told a group of visiting Indian journalists. India is looking to select a single engine fighter aircraft to be built in large numbers in India with extensive technology transfer for which the SAAB had offered its latest Gripen E fighter. “Our Transfer of Technology [ToT] is more than just transfer of assembly work aiming for an indigenous system of systems integration capability to create indigenous capabilities,” said Mats Palmberg, heading the SAAB Gripen program for India. Mr. Palmberg said that with AESA radar, stealth was not as important as it was earlier.

    Strategic partnership
    The company officials said that SAAB was looking for a strategic partner for the Gripen program in the long-term and India and Sweden have good relations without political compulsions.

    Officials said Gripen was the first fighter to be integrated with the Meteor, Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missile. India is procuring the Meteor, considered a game changer with its range of 150 km, as part of the Rafale package concluded with France recently.

    Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd., which is manufacturing the LCA, is looking for foreign design assistance on the LCA Mk-1A to make specific improvements sought by the IAF which include an AESA radar, mid-air refuelling and improved electronic warfare suite which need design change in addition to other minor improvements.

    The SAAB officials said that both the LCA and the Gripen are of similar class and also share the same General Electric engine citing commonality in maintenance and operation. “We have submitted proposals to India on LCA,” Mr. Tossman said.

    In addition the SAAB officials offered help in the development of the next-generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) being designed by Aeronautical Design Agency (ADA).

    http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/swedens-saab-sweetens-deal-for-gripen-jet/article9212340.ece

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    Re: New Contest for IAF Single Engine Fighter Aircraft

    Post  Militarov on Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:36 pm

    GarryB wrote:I wonder if MiG might take this opportunity to submit a new single engine design perhaps based on their work for the LFI or LFS programme...


    A small affordable 5th gen light fighter would be a profitable investment as the only real competition will be the much heavier PAK FA and derivatives and anything the Chinese come up with and of course the expensive F-35.

    India seems to have required already existing single engined platform that is already in production. Which leaves F-16 Block 60/70.... Gripen-NG and possibly F-35.

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    Re: New Contest for IAF Single Engine Fighter Aircraft

    Post  Pinto on Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:01 am

    Militarov wrote:
    GarryB wrote:I wonder if MiG might take this opportunity to submit a new single engine design perhaps based on their work for the LFI or LFS programme...


    A small affordable 5th gen light fighter would be a profitable investment as the only real competition will be the much heavier PAK FA and derivatives and anything the Chinese come up with and of course the expensive F-35.

    India seems to have required already existing single engined platform that is already in production. Which leaves F-16 Block 60/70.... Gripen-NG and possibly F-35.

    F-35 wont come at all but this Pro US govt in India might go for F-16 which is going to be most stupid of decision. if they want infrastructure in India then Gripen NG or joint venture with Russia would have been more wise. Tejas i fear is going to be victim and might become technological demonstrator

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    Re: New Contest for IAF Single Engine Fighter Aircraft

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:49 am

    Pinto wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    GarryB wrote:I wonder if MiG might take this opportunity to submit a new single engine design perhaps based on their work for the LFI or LFS programme...


    A small affordable 5th gen light fighter would be a profitable investment as the only real competition will be the much heavier PAK FA and derivatives and anything the Chinese come up with and of course the expensive F-35.

    India seems to have required already existing single engined platform that is already in production. Which leaves F-16 Block 60/70.... Gripen-NG and possibly F-35.

    F-35 wont come at all but this Pro US govt in India might go for F-16 which is going to be most stupid of decision. if they want infrastructure in India then Gripen NG or joint venture with Russia would have been more wise. Tejas i fear is going to be victim and might become technological demonstrator

    All 3 are terrible choices:

    1.) F-35 = Grossly expensive, gold-plated white elephant, glorified bomb truck.

    2.) Gripen = Depends on a dozen countries for spares and parts. The encyclopedia example of a logistics nightmare!

    3.) F-16 = The safest bet, but it's also going to be one of the biggest propaganda victories for the Pakistani's in decades. Expect countless South Asian forums, where Pakistani's mock Indians for only recently getting aircraft that they had in use for decades, with extra salt in the wound over the fact that the Paki's got there F-16's via military aid, while India will buy their's out-of-pocket.

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    Re: New Contest for IAF Single Engine Fighter Aircraft

    Post  Militarov on Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:53 pm

    Pinto wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    GarryB wrote:I wonder if MiG might take this opportunity to submit a new single engine design perhaps based on their work for the LFI or LFS programme...


    A small affordable 5th gen light fighter would be a profitable investment as the only real competition will be the much heavier PAK FA and derivatives and anything the Chinese come up with and of course the expensive F-35.

    India seems to have required already existing single engined platform that is already in production. Which leaves F-16 Block 60/70.... Gripen-NG and possibly F-35.

    F-35 wont come at all but this Pro US govt in India might go for F-16 which is going to be most stupid of decision. if they want infrastructure in India then Gripen NG or joint venture with Russia would have been more wise. Tejas i fear is going to be victim and might become technological demonstrator

    I actually have the feeling Gripen-NG will be eventually picked, not sure why but it feels that way. Its not American, yet it uses 30% of the components + engine from the US so it will please them. And its not American so it wont count in already ordered US built platforms like Apache, C-17, Chinnok and they can say they are not "putting too much eggs in the same basket" as they like to say when they refuse to buy more equipment from Russia. And on top of everything its not F-16 which Pakistan so proudly uses.

    But even if they do buy F-16 it will be F-16IN-Block 70/V whatever they like to call these days.

    Single engined fighter market is quite poor today, but i can remember one project that would perfectly fit in Indian requirements that was sadly stopped looong ago. Yugoslavian "Novi Avion" which was to use Dassault Rafale components and domestic components from Yugoslavia. It would so perfectly fit as Yugoslavia was in great relations with India and components would match already fielded Rafale.


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    Re: New Contest for IAF Single Engine Fighter Aircraft

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:19 am

    Well if they are so short sighted as to look at in production single engine fighters then why not just keep the MiG-21s... with a few minor modifications.. MiG-21-98.

    Get MiG to make some new builds for them...

    Problem is the whole idea behind a single engined aircraft is low cost... so it is pretty stupid even mentioning the F-35 in that context.

    The F-16 is not that much better... it would make rather more sense to just buy some MiG-29M2 aircraft... but why let common sense get in the way.

    In 20 years time when they have decided to make Gripens the MiG-LFS will be just entering production no doubt...


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    Re: New Contest for IAF Single Engine Fighter Aircraft

    Post  Militarov on Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:44 pm

    GarryB wrote:Well if they are so short sighted as to look at in production single engine fighters then why not just keep the MiG-21s... with a few minor modifications.. MiG-21-98.

    Get MiG to make some new builds for them...

    Problem is the whole idea behind a single engined aircraft is low cost... so it is pretty stupid even mentioning the F-35 in that context.

    The F-16 is not that much better... it would make rather more sense to just buy some MiG-29M2 aircraft... but why let common sense get in the way.

    In 20 years time when they have decided to make Gripens the MiG-LFS will be just entering production no doubt...

    MiG-21 is extremly old concept and design in general, it just doesnt fit majority of basic requirements for modern fighter. And modifying it enough to does fit, you would basically end up with something like JF-17, which is itself one big fat flying compromise.

    Well they will have Tejas for "low cost" part of the wing, so i am somewhat failint to see the poing of whole this procurement, as they will end up with 3 single engine fighters Tejas, Mirage and "the unknown one". Its just probably one of those "squadron number" chants they like to do last 10 years. As much as the new platform could be low cost it will just be added on the pile of already existing platforms and its savings will be eaten by requirements to pile up totally different spares and equipment.

    Imagine having 3 different cars, and having to pile up spares for each one and pay mechancis for each one. Now imagine having 3 same cars, where you pile up spares for basically just 1 car and paying just 1 mechanic. Instead of lowering the cost, they will most likely grow.

    Also i dont think MiG-29M is best "low cost option", while it is somewhat cheaper to procure its flight hour is almost double compared to F-16 Block 60, and that is projected price. Polish air force seens to be spending alot more than projected operating costs for their MiG-29s where originally. Sure there would be some savings due to fact MiG-29 is flying already in India but i am not sure it would be enough.

    Well they said nothing is going to stop Sukhoi, Dassault or MiG to apply on this tender... thing is... they would have to apply with concept.


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    Re: New Contest for IAF Single Engine Fighter Aircraft

    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:35 am

    The SMT upgrade reduced the operating costs by more than 40%... I rather suspect the same improvements were also applied to the MiG-29M2 type aircraft... things like diagnostic systems and training modes etc.

    I don't think a MiG the Indians buy would be comparable to anything operated in Europe as they really don't give a shit about those aircraft... Germany could easily have spend a little to upgrade their MiGs to SMT standard and gotten much cheaper to operate and also more capable aircraft... but they prefer the F-4 and Typhoon... upgrade the MiGs and someone might ask the obvious question... why waste money on expensive Typhoons when a cheap MiG can fire missiles too.

    Much safer to keep the MiGs basic and then withdraw them and keep the F-4s...

    What India always wanted was to be allowed to make Mirage 2000s but the Frogs said no... you have to buy the over priced Rafales instead... MMRCA competition and a decade and the Indians still want their M2ks and the frogs still say no.

    If they produce Gripens or F-16s it will cost billions... billions they could have spent to make the Tegas much better... what a waste.


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    medo
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    Re: New Contest for IAF Single Engine Fighter Aircraft

    Post  medo on Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:07 am

    The quickest way for Russia to make a single engine light fighter is to modify Yak-130 trainer. They could take its two AI-222 engines out and replace them with new RD-33MK or RD-93 engine and make it single seater to get enough space to install proper radar in its nose. Yak-130 is already very agile jet with g limitation at -3/+9 g, what is better than Tejas. Yak-130 number of hardpoints and combat load is already big enough.

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    Re: New Contest for IAF Single Engine Fighter Aircraft

    Post  Pinto on Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:39 pm

    medo wrote:The quickest way for Russia to make a single engine light fighter is to modify Yak-130 trainer. They could take its two AI-222 engines out and replace them with new RD-33MK or RD-93 engine and make it single seater to get enough space to install proper radar in its nose. Yak-130 is already very agile jet with g limitation at -3/+9 g, what is better than Tejas. Yak-130 number of hardpoints and combat load is already big enough.

    If aesa radar can be installed in such fighter and has reliable engine then it must be fielded by Russia

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    Re: New Contest for IAF Single Engine Fighter Aircraft

    Post  medo on Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:38 pm

    Pinto wrote:
    medo wrote:The quickest way for Russia to make a single engine light fighter is to modify Yak-130 trainer. They could take its two AI-222 engines out and replace them with new RD-33MK or RD-93 engine and make it single seater to get enough space to install proper radar in its nose. Yak-130 is already very agile jet with g limitation at -3/+9 g, what is better than Tejas. Yak-130 number of hardpoints and combat load is already big enough.

    If aesa radar can be installed in such fighter and has reliable engine then it must be fielded by Russia

    RuAF decided more than 20 years ago to have only twin engined fighters and retire all single engine jets. They will not field such fighter, but could made it for export.

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    Re: New Contest for IAF Single Engine Fighter Aircraft

    Post  Militarov on Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:31 pm

    medo wrote:
    Pinto wrote:
    medo wrote:The quickest way for Russia to make a single engine light fighter is to modify Yak-130 trainer. They could take its two AI-222 engines out and replace them with new RD-33MK or RD-93 engine and make it single seater to get enough space to install proper radar in its nose. Yak-130 is already very agile jet with g limitation at -3/+9 g, what is better than Tejas. Yak-130 number of hardpoints and combat load is already big enough.

    If aesa radar can be installed in such fighter and has reliable engine then it must be fielded by Russia

    RuAF decided more than 20 years ago to have only twin engined fighters and retire all single engine jets. They will not field such fighter, but could made it for export.

    They decided that due to post USSR collapse situation, not because they have no use for single engine fighters. After all Mikoyan LMFS was supposed to be single engined.

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    Re: New Contest for IAF Single Engine Fighter Aircraft

    Post  Pinto on Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:40 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    medo wrote:
    Pinto wrote:
    medo wrote:The quickest way for Russia to make a single engine light fighter is to modify Yak-130 trainer. They could take its two AI-222 engines out and replace them with new RD-33MK or RD-93 engine and make it single seater to get enough space to install proper radar in its nose. Yak-130 is already very agile jet with g limitation at -3/+9 g, what is better than Tejas. Yak-130 number of hardpoints and combat load is already big enough.

    If aesa radar can be installed in such fighter and has reliable engine then it must be fielded by Russia

    RuAF decided more than 20 years ago to have only twin engined fighters and retire all single engine jets. They will not field such fighter, but could made it for export.

    They decided that due to post USSR collapse situation, not because they have no use for single engine fighters. After all Mikoyan LMFS was supposed to be single engined.

    Russia, US and Sweden have been asked to submit there bids so Russia must participate in this bid to be made in India. since US wont share critical technology it leaves Sweden and Russia

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    Re: New Contest for IAF Single Engine Fighter Aircraft

    Post  Militarov on Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:46 pm

    Pinto wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    medo wrote:
    Pinto wrote:
    medo wrote:The quickest way for Russia to make a single engine light fighter is to modify Yak-130 trainer. They could take its two AI-222 engines out and replace them with new RD-33MK or RD-93 engine and make it single seater to get enough space to install proper radar in its nose. Yak-130 is already very agile jet with g limitation at -3/+9 g, what is better than Tejas. Yak-130 number of hardpoints and combat load is already big enough.

    If aesa radar can be installed in such fighter and has reliable engine then it must be fielded by Russia

    RuAF decided more than 20 years ago to have only twin engined fighters and retire all single engine jets. They will not field such fighter, but could made it for export.

    They decided that due to post USSR collapse situation, not because they have no use for single engine fighters. After all Mikoyan LMFS was supposed to be single engined.

    Russia, US and Sweden have been asked to submit there bids so Russia must participate in this bid to be made in India. since US wont share critical technology it leaves Sweden and Russia

    Well, US did not want to share F-35 technology, however they seemed quite keen on transfering Super Hornet technology a year back. Id put F-16 in same bag, as that is the technology they are slowly discarting.

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