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    P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

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    Cyberspec
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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:06 am

    Submarine launch of Onyx or perhaps Brahmos Question

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Mike E on Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:23 am

    The thing is too friggin' fast to tell! - Definitely Onyx/Brahmos size, and looks to be the same speed as well...

    What kind of sub?
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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Mike E on Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:45 pm

    I have a question.... Can the Bastion-P fire the Onyx or only the often mentioned Yakhont? I figure it would be the Onyx for quite obvious reasons, but all sources say otherwise.....
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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:14 am

    Cyberspec wrote:Submarine launch of Onyx or perhaps Brahmos Question


    It's definitely Brahmos, and from my understanding it wasn't from a specific submarine but from "submarine like conditions".

    Mike E wrote:I have a question.... Can the Bastion-P fire the Onyx or only the often mentioned Yakhont? I figure it would be the Onyx for quite obvious reasons, but all sources say otherwise.....

    Domestic versions will have Onyx, export versions will have Yakhont.
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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Mike E on Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:45 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:Submarine launch of Onyx or perhaps Brahmos Question


    It's definitely Brahmos, and from my understanding it wasn't from a specific submarine but from "submarine like conditions".

    Mike E wrote:I have a question.... Can the Bastion-P fire the Onyx or only the often mentioned Yakhont? I figure it would be the Onyx for quite obvious reasons, but all sources say otherwise.....

    Domestic versions will have Onyx, export versions will have Yakhont.  
    Figured, as the "cover" looks unusual.

    Thanks, so it has a range of over 500 km, meaning the units in Crimea cover almost the entire sea.
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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  navyfield on Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:46 pm

    hm launch shaft looks shallow in the water considering light conditions ,and launch rocket engine burned out by the time missle turned on its side.
    looks like yakhont is very depth limited for its launch parameters no more then 10 ,20m,  , suggesting submarine must come close to surface in order to launch so it will be more easily detectable.
    i expected more. cry
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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Mike E on Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:22 pm

    You are *actually right for the first time ever*. It does appear to be launched from shallow waters.... However, it is claimed that it will be able to be launched from 60 meters under the ocean, which is *much* deeper than what is shown in ths video. You expected, and they delivered.... It might even be possible that it could be launch from even deeper, but I'll have to wait and see...
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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:56 am

    hm launch shaft looks shallow in the water considering light conditions ,and launch rocket engine burned out by the time missle turned on its side.
    looks like yakhont is very depth limited for its launch parameters no more then 10 ,20m, , suggesting submarine must come close to surface in order to launch so it will be more easily detectable.
    i expected more.

    WOW... amazing analysis... did you also note they keep firing over and over again but only during the day time, so clearly it doesn't work at night... which is a real limitation... Twisted Evil

    I also suspect it was videoed in the northern hemisphere so it likely can't be fired south of the equator either... what a crap missile Twisted Evil


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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  navyfield on Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:04 pm

    Mike E wrote:You are *actually right for the first time ever*. It does appear to be launched from shallow waters.... However, it is claimed that it will be able to be launched from 60 meters under the ocean, which is *much* deeper than what is shown in ths video. You expected, and they delivered.... It might even be possible that it could be launch from even deeper, but I'll have to wait and see...
    i doubt it can be launched from more then 20m ,it takes time to steer the missile and clear the surface by few meters...its the weak spot for yakhont.
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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Mike E on Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:06 pm

    navyfield wrote:
    Mike E wrote:You are *actually right for the first time ever*. It does appear to be launched from shallow waters.... However, it is claimed that it will be able to be launched from 60 meters under the ocean, which is *much* deeper than what is shown in ths video. You expected, and they delivered.... It might even be possible that it could be launch from even deeper, but I'll have to wait and see...
    i doubt it can be launched from more then 20m ,it takes time to steer the missile and clear the surface by few meters...its the weak spot for yakhont.
    A) Yes, it is rated to be launched from a depth of 60 meters.

    B) It prepositions itself over the water, so that doesn't mean a thing...

    C) Not a weak-point, and the missile launched was a Brahmos...
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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:33 am

    No body has mentioned that to offset the limit of launching in shallow water and only in daytime that over the couple of days I have been watching that video literally hundreds of missiles have been launched from that one tube and they still keep coming...


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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  navyfield on Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:22 pm

    Mike E wrote:
    navyfield wrote:
    Mike E wrote:You are *actually right for the first time ever*. It does appear to be launched from shallow waters.... However, it is claimed that it will be able to be launched from 60 meters under the ocean, which is *much* deeper than what is shown in ths video. You expected, and they delivered.... It might even be possible that it could be launch from even deeper, but I'll have to wait and see...
    i doubt it can be launched from more then 20m ,it takes time to steer the missile and clear the surface by few meters...its the weak spot for yakhont.
    A) Yes, it is rated to be launched from a depth of 60 meters.

    B) It prepositions itself over the water, so that doesn't mean a thing...

    C) Not a weak-point, and the missile launched was a Brahmos...
    any proof for 60m depth capable launch claim???
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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:25 pm

    navyfield wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    navyfield wrote:
    Mike E wrote:You are *actually right for the first time ever*. It does appear to be launched from shallow waters.... However, it is claimed that it will be able to be launched from 60 meters under the ocean, which is *much* deeper than what is shown in ths video. You expected, and they delivered.... It might even be possible that it could be launch from even deeper, but I'll have to wait and see...
    i doubt it can be launched from more then 20m ,it takes time to steer the missile and clear the surface by few meters...its the weak spot for yakhont.
    A) Yes, it is rated to be launched from a depth of 60 meters.

    B) It prepositions itself over the water, so that doesn't mean a thing...

    C) Not a weak-point, and the missile launched was a Brahmos...
    any proof for 60m depth capable launch claim???

    Any proof from you that it can not?

    Who'S claim has more weight, some idiot on a forum that only bitches like a little pussy or manufactorer of submarine and SLBM?
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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  navyfield on Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:33 pm

    allot of foaming but still no link or any substantial evidence Rolling Eyes ,welcome to my ignore list....
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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Mike E on Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:39 pm

    navyfield wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    navyfield wrote:
    Mike E wrote:You are *actually right for the first time ever*. It does appear to be launched from shallow waters.... However, it is claimed that it will be able to be launched from 60 meters under the ocean, which is *much* deeper than what is shown in ths video. You expected, and they delivered.... It might even be possible that it could be launch from even deeper, but I'll have to wait and see...
    i doubt it can be launched from more then 20m ,it takes time to steer the missile and clear the surface by few meters...its the weak spot for yakhont.
    A) Yes, it is rated to be launched from a depth of 60 meters.

    B) It prepositions itself over the water, so that doesn't mean a thing...

    C) Not a weak-point, and the missile launched was a Brahmos...
    any proof for 60m depth capable launch claim???
    Yes, go to *any* source that has information on the Brahmos! They are bound to have at least a little info on the subject of launching depth, and I guarantee that you can find one (I know I can)....

    To everybody else; if you are so pissed off by this guy, just request he be banned rather than returning insults.... - As GarryB one said to me "it lowers yourself to their level".
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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:22 am

    I remember on another forum there were posters who wanted to know stuff, but didn't want to ask nicely so they turned it into an argument to try to get others to search the internet for the information for them.

    You made the claim this missile can only be fired from shallow water... you back it up with manufacturers figures to prove it.


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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Mike E on Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:15 am

    What do you guys think of this article; http://gizmodo.com/why-americas-navy-is-so-concerned-about-these-russian-m-1641323648/all ? 

    In typical Western fashion, they fail to mention that the Onyx has a greater range than the Yakhont, and that is has a lower flight altitude of 10 m... Don't even bother to mention how they call the Phalanx and SeaRAM "exotic", what a joke! - On a side note, couldn't the Onyx's speed be adjusted via its ramjet?
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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:00 am

    I suspect the writer meant to put "such weapons as Phalanx and Sea Ram or exotic weapons like EM guns:. or some such thing.

    Moskit does not have 4 ramjet engines... it has one... it has four air intakes for that one ramjet engine... don't look at the front of an aircraft to see how many engines it has... look at the rear.

    On a side note, couldn't the Onyx's speed be adjusted via its ramjet?

    A ramjet engine burns fuel subsonically, so for the ramjet it is the same situation as a turbojet engine... at high speed it has to balance air coming into the intake as subsonic speed so the engine does not choke, but having the air exit the engine at the highest speed possible to maximise thrust.

    Flying at low altitude the top speed of the Onyx is probably mach 1.8-1.9 in the thick air at low altitude.

    At high altitude it can fly rather faster in the thinner colder air, but very low altitude offers the maximum opportunity for surprise.

    Amusingly the article didn't mention the pack tactics the missiles adopt when attacking targets and how they can operate together to maximise their effect.

    they also didn't mention the Klub missile that travels long ranges at subsonic speeds till it gets close to the target area and then launches a Mach 2.9 final rocket stage to penetrate the final layer of defences... ie Phalanx and Sea RAM.... likely the fastest low flying anti ship missile available until ramjet powered missiles become available... obviously the Kh-32 will come in faster but from a high altitude dive....


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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Mike E on Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:29 pm

    GarryB wrote:I suspect the writer meant to put "such weapons as Phalanx and Sea Ram or exotic weapons like EM guns:. or some such thing.

    Moskit does not have 4 ramjet engines... it has one... it has four air intakes for that one ramjet engine... don't look at the front of an aircraft to see how many engines it has... look at the rear.

    On a side note, couldn't the Onyx's speed be adjusted via its ramjet?

    A ramjet engine burns fuel subsonically, so for the ramjet it is the same situation as a turbojet engine... at high speed it has to balance air coming into the intake as subsonic speed so the engine does not choke, but having the air exit the engine at the highest speed possible to maximise thrust.

    Flying at low altitude the top speed of the Onyx is probably mach 1.8-1.9 in the thick air at low altitude.

    At high altitude it can fly rather faster in the thinner colder air, but very low altitude offers the maximum opportunity for surprise.

    Amusingly the article didn't mention the pack tactics the missiles adopt when attacking targets and how they can operate together to maximise their effect.

    they also didn't mention the Klub missile that travels long ranges at subsonic speeds till it gets close to the target area and then launches a Mach 2.9 final rocket stage to penetrate the final layer of defences... ie Phalanx and Sea RAM.... likely the fastest low flying anti ship missile available until ramjet powered missiles become available... obviously the Kh-32 will come in faster but from a high altitude dive....
    Probably...

    That makes sense about the speed, but that is more of a "scram-jet issue* than a *ramjet one*. Not to say it doesn't have effect.

     - The article (because of the source) would never mention the "wolf-pack" tactics or longer range etc. Their sources are wiki for the most part!
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    Onyx/BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:09 pm

    With a scramjet engine things are made much easier because the air coming in does not need to be slowed down to subsonic speeds and then accelerated through the engine back up to high supersonic speeds to generate thrust.

    Air coming in at mach 3 can be further accelerated and generate rather more thrust in a scramjet engine at any height.

    It mentions Onyx has double the range of Moskit... Moskit had a range of something like 110-120km in the original version (that entered service in the early 1980s on Sovremmeny Class Destroyers).

    Onyx is known to have a range of at least 500km and often quoted in the 500-700km range.


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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Viktor on Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:56 pm

    Very Happy russia

    Brahmos-M

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  George1 on Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:03 pm

    Viktor wrote:Very Happy russia

    Brahmos-M


    is this the air-launched variant of brahmos?
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    Post  Cyberspec on Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:31 pm

    George1 wrote:

    Brahmos-M



    is this the air-launched variant of brahmos?

    Yes, I think so....it's significantly shorter than the original and if I remeber correctly it should be faster (over mach 3)
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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  George1 on Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:11 am

    The russian version of P-800 (Oniks) has a range of about 600km??


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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Austin on Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:27 am

    George1 wrote:The russian version of P-800 (Oniks) has a range of about 600km??

    500 km in Hi-Lo Profile

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