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    P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

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    GarryB
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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:12 am

    So i would think Russian Onisk has similar range atleast 500 km that is good to replace the Shipwreck , with the advantage it can be use for land attack if it uses Brahmos software stuff.

    I have been told that the Oniks is actually larger and heavier than Yakhont and actually has a range of 700km or more and is replacing Granit.

    The Brahmos has the advantage of land attack capabilities over the Oniks and Yakhont, but I believe the Russian Navy will only use it as an anti ship missile and will use Klub for land attack.

    if a AESA/PESA could track it well then i think systems like Aster-15/30.Barak-8,Shtil-1/9M96 or even Sea Sparrow will tackle it effectively , specially if its not a mass attack.

    Engaging very low flying targets is problematic, and very fast low flying targets become even more difficult.

    You would need early warning and time to prepare systems and even then you make one mistake and it will get through.

    On paper Exocet should have been no problem at all for British ships in the early 1980s, but in practise it was a real threat.

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  IronsightSniper on Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:10 am

    In theory the USN could shoot down an Onyx, but like Garry says, it'd require early warning first. Which, actually wouldn't be that hard since a missile flying at high speeds at that low altitude will generate plenty of friction which will make it a flying potato to FLIRs (Visual Horizon isn't that far off), though, that would mean a very, very short period to launch say, an ESSM at it.

    Overall, if you want to protect a ship against sea-skimming high-speed death machines:

    1. Get bigger radars
    2. Get faster reacting missiles

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:28 pm

    When designing weapons you generally create a requirements list based on what you have and what potential enemies have and what you want done.

    The Yakhont is an export missile, so its range cannot exceed 300km and its payload cannot exceed 500kgs.

    The missile it is based on had no such limits and its design requirements were directed at the USN.

    The assumption was that with its air cover it would detect incoming missiles at very long range so from the outset the weapon needs speed to compress the time window for successful interception.

    The intent was to overwhelm the defences and the combination of speed and numbers were to be used to achieve that goal.

    They didn't design a vessel and then put missiles on it they designed missiles and decided how many weapons they would need for a viable attack.

    The Kirov has 20 Granits and the Oscar class SSGNs have 24 because they will use salvos of missiles in an attack on a real fight with a carrier group.

    Against a single vessel one missile has a good chance and is a real threat.

    Against a full carrier group one missile has a chance but it is a small one just because hitting targets very close to the water is hard, but a modern carrier group is well protected and if it detects the threat it has a good chance of stopping it.

    The whole purpose of a carrier group is airborne early warning of threats, plus aircraft that can intercept hostile vessels before they get close, plus AEGIS cruisers with plenty of long range missiles.

    In the real world, like the Falklands and in the Vincennes incident however problems can occur. (note in the Vincennes incident there was a malfunction with the SAM so the final attack was delayed about a minute and a half before a missile could be fired... in the event it didn't matter to the USN ship because the threat was an Iranian Airbus, but had it been a missile that problem would obviously have been more serious.)

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Guest on Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:31 pm

    IronsightSniper wrote:In theory the USN could shoot down an Onyx, but like Garry says, it'd require early warning first. Which, actually wouldn't be that hard since a missile flying at high speeds at that low altitude will generate plenty of friction which will make it a flying potato to FLIRs (Visual Horizon isn't that far off), though, that would mean a very, very short period to launch say, an ESSM at it.

    Overall, if you want to protect a ship against sea-skimming high-speed death machines:

    1. Get bigger radars
    2. Get faster reacting missiles

    Very Happy

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Austin on Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:08 pm

    Hypersonic missile to be ready in 5 years

    Coimbatore With the air-version of BrahMos missile likely to be inducted in IAF within a year, works have already been started to develop BrahMos 2, the fastest Hypersonic missile in the world, which would take final shape in five years, a top scientist said.

    While the BrahMos missile has the speed of Mach 3 (speed of sound) moving at one km per second, the Hypersonic missile would achieve a speed of Mach 6 to Mach 7, double than that of the present missile, A Sivathanu Pillai, CEO and Managing Director, BrahMos Aerospace, said.

    “We have the guidelines and technology to make Hypersonic missile. Tests, however, have to be conducted for configuring with the propulsion and the engine and flight tested, which would take at least five years,” Pillai said.

    Once operational, BrahMos 2 would be the fastest missile in the world, he said.

    Having achieved the land and sea versions of BrahMos missile, the air version was in the final stage and after carrying out the critical test,it would be inducted into the Indian Air Force to use in Sukhoi-30,the main striking aircraft. The missile would be a versatile system in the Defence Force, he said.

    Asked about inquiries from foreign Countries, Pillai said since there was no equivalent to the BrahMos, many countries were queuing up for the missile for use in multiple platforms in their force.

    There was , however, huge requirement of this missile in India and only after fulfilling the demand, the company can think of supplying to foreign countries, he said.

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:50 am

    Once operational, BrahMos 2 would be the fastest missile in the world, he said.

    It would be the fastest air breathing anti ship missile...

    There are plenty of missiles that travel at more than 2km/s.

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    Order bye 800 BrahMos II to Lavina

    Post  Guest on Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:14 pm

    Pyytäisin Venäjää modifioimaan tai kehittämään BrahMos II risteilyohjusta n 130 km kantomatkalle (onnistuuko 30 km torjuntakorkeus?) niin, että sen etupäähän laitetaan pienet ohjaussiivekkeet ja muut siivekkeet jätetään pois. Siivekkeiden ohjaus toteutetaan yhdistettynä ohjuksen IR -alueen stealth -ominaisuuden kuntoon laittoon niin, että siivekkeiden etureunassa kiertää niiden ohjaushydrauliikkaan käytettävä vesivirtaus niin, että se kiertää nokkakartion kärjen kautta valumaan sen pintaa pitkin tai sen ympärillä olevan kehän reunaan niin, että ohjuksen räjähdysainetta voidaan ehkä hieman vähentää kuten myös polttoainetta nuo tilat vedellä täyttäen. Kun ohjus on lasketulla 15 viimeisellä lähestymisvaiheen sekunnilla, niin vesikierto voimistetaan ja pumpun paine aukaisee nokkakartion jäähdytyksen n. 10 litraa sekunnissa määrään, joka boostaa pikkuisen myös tehoja. Ohjuksen hakupäähän haluan nykyaikaisten ja lähitulevaisuuden prosessoreiden ja inertiahyrrien mahdollistamaan kaikkien maalityyppien ja lentoprofiilien joka korkeuden torjunta ja hakeutumisominaisuuden sekä päivittyvän moduulirakenteen. Very Happy

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:43 pm

    Sorry, but this is an English language forum... could you please translate that to English.

    The main advantage of this missile is that it is a missile and is able to perform manouvers in flight like an aircraft.

    Interception of very high speed ballistic missiles is made easier because the trajectory is largely predictible... much like a bullet... once fired it follows a predictible path that can be rather accurately calculated.

    In fact the iron sights of a rifle are calibrated to the trajectory of the standard ammo it fires, so even WWI rifles had ballistic trajectory calculators attached to them to allow the user to hit targets at different ranges.

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Guest on Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:37 am

    So people, who do things and thiks, have surely been capaple translate things on areas, which are interesting like "Metsastajatyyppi". My presume and interests on thinking and on this forum area have been on levels (such like from here away taken past writing and) in above mentioned thing just "ignites cooling stuff (if it is put there to missiles nose) or not" or on that "bullet" quality, in which maybe is difficult turn missile up to heigts so, that it can use agains certain future anti missile trend figures. And thik, how nice it will be, if can use missiles fuel as coolant instead of water and if could just take step over so many DIFFERENT missile types and generations, which made are not needed on this function area. Very Happy

    GarryB
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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:54 am

    Slush hydrogen fuel is already pumped through rocket motor nozzles to cool the nozzles and to preheat the fuel to enable it to get much hotter during the ignition process which makes it more energetic as a propellent for launching space craft.

    It is not a huge step to have membranes in the nose of a hypersonic aircraft through which slush hydrogen is pumped to cool the nosecone and also prep the fuel for use.

    The obvious problem is if there is a fuel blockage or you run out, but then they are problems in themselves anyway.

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    Who does not do work to Human...

    Post  Guest on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:04 am

    So, if I already have become common also here and so introduced, lets me repeat on protect high values and people important threat, what I think, we military are doing on this world. Protecting people doing efforts in our service or protecting as cowards our own advances by putting that away taken past writing here again.

    Only if you do from that missile so simple and cheap product, like it is possible to do trough mass product and modern really cheap electronics, you can get from it effective under certain circumstances. Otherwise other side just use lasers to destroy them or simply guided projectiles, which burst gets targets distance from gun direction and the rest calculation happens inside projectile cheap computer getting direction from radar beam reflex radiation from target so, that on its way to one target flying maybe10 projectile burst can explode on front of missiles so, that even one such about 60 mm calibre gun have time destroy 3-4 missiles. How long you think, that such guns putting to its places takes… No long. One night, when they are already on stock, not to mention, that you need only use such projectiles. So you must have better ideas.. Such like “Defence System” and building your wholly such system inside to defence advance natural laws, which can easy find, but can you? This strategy CHANGE is better now on, than aggressive systems, with which you die, because they doesn’t work and you cannot even use them. Process goes on small steps collapse way keeping you on civil war process and taking one after one other from there to nice life side so, that system brains vanish and the rest will be so easy. Those brains can do them (who ever, but not first to patriotism and protect HIGH values reasons.. do you have.. should have something valuable so, that people have reason to protect something) them work and blend to big inclined surface becoming part of Women Moloch OWN VONSUMER etc. NEEDS layering chain and in it man will.. be just ant competing against other near being enemies (past nation system keep SUCH enemies under and inside organics structure, but now they are free to do own advances against common good) without rest them wholly life and women have so fun, as they can understand fun is, because like in politics, what order being not so funny or does not please you, loses. So this world goes to chaos and who wins in such jungle. Animals and predators. So what you need… Ideals and common good moral. Did you have God. So study, if it is not just matter of believe, but true. Who can do such inspection better on this telepathic incoming time, than past Sovjet Union specialists, whose surely know, what USA is doing wrong on that front..
    Lets define yet, that nations existing basis is on words “Worth of protect and do efforts”. So if people are not understanding abstract values and reasons, you must do such estate basis, where everyone have them own need build everything so, that it is effective from them own will and understanding on and above it crows it selves such best logistics infrastructure, which can product all nation needed functions. You need to do only 2 day work/year/person to get everything, which then are even best, what can do to (do own food, care children, eat, do own clothes etc. on that 363 rest day are not “work”). Bound people to such infrastructure vanish them competition and makes from them friends again. You doesn’t have any problems after by such doings and you can get so 6000 million peoples leadership against competition system processes and mechanisms. Do you still have some problems there? No problems, but happy doings TOGETHER.

    GarryB
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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:23 am

    I respect your attempts to communicate in English and am not going to ban you for not posting in English.

    You seem very keen to take part in discussions, but it is difficult to understand you sometimes.

    Perhaps if you break your ideas and comments up a bit more instead of posting in one big block of text.

    It makes it easier to read and if you separate each idea into a separate paragraph it becomes easier to read too.

    BTW it is always easier to attack than defend. All sorts of super defence systems with missiles and lasers and guided shells... they can be distracted or fooled or gotten around.

    A good example is the Klub system... at the moment it is based around four missiles. A subsonic land attack missile. A subsonic all the way anti ship missile. A subsonic missile that delivers a supersonic missile to the radar horizon of a target and a ballistic rocket that delivers a torpedo 40km to attack enemy subs.
    It wouldn't take very much effort to change that subsonic/supersonic model by replacing the rocket powered missile with a torpedo with a small tactical nuclear warhead.

    Launch the missile 600km away from an enemy vessel and fly the torpedo payload at medium height till it gets close to the radar horizon of the target for efficient long range flight... then drop down to near the wave tops and fly till you reach the targets radar horizon again... even a laser needs a direct line of sight to hit... and then release the torpedo into the water and accelerate to perhaps 20knts in low noise mode towards the target area. When operating propellers are detected accelerate to 60knts or more and sink the ships.

    Of course in reality it is much easier just to wait till the target is vulnerable... like when it is taking on fuel or supplies... in fact a high flying very fast object would be a very good distraction for low flying stealthy threats.

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:01 am

    Come on man, you Fins are supposed to speak English.

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    Care about frustrating people is my order..

    Post  Guest on Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:39 am

    Okay. I respect your opinion on these “fields” of war, and agree some kind of reality exist, but war is not on what we should be in. I hope, that Russia can keep balance in this world and your systems have now been obstacle to worst, but war is problem it selves, which solve is area, in which we should not do “it” wrong making “it” become trough on going other processes permanent basis cybernetics until “worst win” happens. This is the key of my discussion like “worth to defend” is way to get people to do efforts. I.e. Not defend others political advances by MUST, because those political people specie society form and methods are that enemy, who forces, exploits and kills, “if not..”. Do you agree the way out from The Problem… So world must not also live on fear mixed with such enemies, who do wrong. Exploit. If are honest can only agree also in this. So why cannot be honest… If not, we can do simple rules and “Organisation Village” -society world, in where exploitation is not (system is not on face to face make do to stronger one, but on infrastructure, which is common and optimized best) and lies are not needed, because rule is known something like in 10 fundamentals, which law is put in Bible and IF LOVE exist. The KEY is love and reason is relatively high form of love, like we adults, fathers and mothers, know. So we need ONLY fairy rules and noble people to be authors (how easy SUCH “war” is to strong people like military’s and police, both just something such, like father, which is keep justice instead to keep wrong), whose keep order. Such Political substance, whose like serve IDEALS can find so like nobles, whose need and like about Good Worlds rules with which can go to “higher worlds”. In Holocaust that Noble part of HUMANKIND have vanish, because always that rare, who stays against badness are in worst situation, usually looses in such environment, about which you just tell, and vanish from earth. Bad wins. If You HONEST can still find such specie, which have been winner species obstacle on its all winnings and selfishness highest mad forms, you have found telepathic 6 specie with his myriad other skills who have for example nose about winners aims, when it is winning You, who ever winner on your strip and who have such reason, which winner cannot loose, because then it does not have any nose about its own specie doings. It needs right 6 sense against badness (not false just materialist Id) Patriot. Absolutely different “new” specie. Really fields of war are on area: understanding, which is like extension from our childhood, but now it must go on between wholly humankinds and its fathers love in fathers teaching. I don’t teathse. Very Happy

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:03 am

    I am certainly no idiot and my interest in the military is really more an interest in progress and adaptation.

    I find weapons and equipment fascinating, but don't enjoy seeing it used for real.
    My interest in weapons is not an interest in violence and death, and my hope that Russia can rebuild their military is not so they can intimidate or invade or punnish like the west does on a daily basis.
    I hope the improvements in technology and conditions in the Russian military is reflected in the Russian civilian sector too.

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:21 pm

    Russia and India are in talks to jointly develop a hypersonic cruise missile and will soon agree on a general outline of the design, the head of the BrahMos Indian-Russian cruise missile program, Praveen Pathak, said on Friday at the Defexpo defense show in Delhi.

    "In the near future, we will set up a joint working group which will work out the parameters of the missile in cooperation with developers, and also decide how much each side will contribue to the project," Pathak said.

    The weapon will be capable of flying at Mach 5-Mach 7 speeds, he said.

    "We want to create a weapon which would not differ much from the existing BrahMos missile in weight and dimensions, so that it could be used in existing launchers on ships or mobile launchers. In this case it would not take too much work to convert such systems to hypersonic," he said.

    "Russia has a longstanding interest in high-speed weaponry and scramjet propulsion, which an Indo-Russian programme could draw on," said Douglas Barrie, air warfare analyst at the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies. "The design of a genuine hypersonic missile, given the performance requirements, would likely be 'new' rather than using the present 3M55 Onyx/Brahmos design which uses a ramjet for sustained supersonic flight," he added.

    India's Defence Research and Development Organization has previously displayed a demonstrator model of Hypersonic Technology Demonstrator at airshows. NPO Mashinostroeniye, India's partner in the BrahMos program, developed a hypersonic missile known as 3M25 Meteorit, but it was never deployed.

    India will also carry out the first test-firing of the air-launched variant of the BrahMos Russian-Indian supersonic cruise missile by the end of this year, Pathak said.

    "We hope by the end of the year we'll carry out the first launch from an aircraft. It will be an air-launch," he said.

    Work on adapting the air-launched variant of BrahMos to arm India's Su-30MKI aircraft is being undertaken for the Indian air force, he said. Several aircraft have already been modified to carry the weapon, he added.

    Su-30MKI (Flanker-H) multirole fighter

    The Indian air force has already taken delivery of enough of the ground-launched variant to equip two battalions. The missiles will be based near India's borders to strike at enemy airfields, air defense sites and radar stations, said Pathak.

    India tested a ground-launched BrahMos earlier this month. "The missile flew its maximum range, 290 km. The terminal phase of the flight was a steep diving trajectory. This is one of the requirements for the ground forces," he said, adding that a steep diving attack profile was necessary for hitting targets in mountainous terrain.

    BrahMos, a derivative of the Russian NPO Mashinostroeniye 3M55 Yakhont naval cruise missile, is one of the most capable weapons of its class, combining long-range (up to 290 km), high speed (up to Mach 2.Cool a heavy warhead of up to 250 kg, a low radar profile and a variable attack profile, including low level flight down to 10 meters and up to 14,000 meters. The weapon operates on a fire-and-forget principle.

    The ground-launched variant weighs around three tons at launch.

    http://www.en.ria.ru/world/20120330/172478672.html

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:02 am

    "Russia has a longstanding interest in high-speed weaponry and scramjet propulsion, which an Indo-Russian programme could draw on," said Douglas Barrie, air warfare analyst at the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies. "The design of a genuine hypersonic missile, given the performance requirements, would likely be 'new' rather than using the present 3M55 Onyx/Brahmos design which uses a ramjet for sustained supersonic flight," he added.

    I disagree with the last bit, the only 'new' part that is needed is a change from ramjet propulsion to scramjet propulsion and improved surface protection from heat... either surface cooling by pumping fuel through the skin or the use of ablative material.

    Otherwise the missiles are already designed for high speed flight it was an engine limitation that limited their top speed, so replacing that with an engine able to operate at much higher flight speeds is really the only solution needed.

    They might change the design a little as square cheek inlets would be easier to control their shape/internal geometry than the original circular Mig-21 like air intake, but otherwise keeping as much of the rest the same will allow compatibility with existing standard launchers like the UKSK bins to be fitted to all new and upgraded ships in the Russian Navy and also fitted to submarines as well...

    This means that when the new missile becomes available it can be immediately deployed in numbers and of course an enemy force will just have to guess what they are carrying...

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Russian Patriot on Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:49 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    "Russia has a longstanding interest in high-speed weaponry and scramjet propulsion, which an Indo-Russian programme could draw on," said Douglas Barrie, air warfare analyst at the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies. "The design of a genuine hypersonic missile, given the performance requirements, would likely be 'new' rather than using the present 3M55 Onyx/Brahmos design which uses a ramjet for sustained supersonic flight," he added.

    I disagree with the last bit, the only 'new' part that is needed is a change from ramjet propulsion to scramjet propulsion and improved surface protection from heat... either surface cooling by pumping fuel through the skin or the use of ablative material.

    Otherwise the missiles are already designed for high speed flight it was an engine limitation that limited their top speed, so replacing that with an engine able to operate at much higher flight speeds is really the only solution needed.

    They might change the design a little as square cheek inlets would be easier to control their shape/internal geometry than the original circular Mig-21 like air intake, but otherwise keeping as much of the rest the same will allow compatibility with existing standard launchers like the UKSK bins to be fitted to all new and upgraded ships in the Russian Navy and also fitted to submarines as well...

    This means that when the new missile becomes available it can be immediately deployed in numbers and of course an enemy force will just have to guess what they are carrying...







    Well it gets more interesting:

    BrahMos develops anti-aircraft variant of the missile

    IRNA - Islamic Republic News Agency

    New Delhi, April 1, IRNA -- Indo-Russian joint venture BrahMos has developed an anti-aircraft carrier variant of the 290-km supersonic cruise missile.

    'We have achieved the capability to attack aircraft carriers using the supersonic vertical diving variant of the missile and after demonstrating the capability recently with high precision, we will now offer this to the Indian Navy,' BrahMos chief A Sivathanu Pillai said here Saturday, pti reported. He was asked to comment on the recent two successful test firings of the missile.

    Pillai said the test firing for the steep dive variant was done for the Army and after its success, the path is clear for the induction of the fourth regiment of the missile for mountain warfare.

    The army has plans of deploying this missile regiment in the Northeast along the borders with China and the proposal was accorded sanction in a Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) meeting last year.

    The development comes in the backdrop of China's first aircraft carrier undergoing scientific testing and training exercises ahead of its commissioning in August.

    The BrahMos chief said the tests were also to evaluate certain new systems of the missile, which are produced by the Indian industries so that bulk production clearance can be given for integration.

    'This will facilitate faster induction in the Indian armed forces,' he said.

    Pillai said with the Indian forces planning to induct a number of new aircraft such as the 126 multirole combat fighter jets and the MiG 29K naval fighters, BrahMos was considering developing a smaller version of the BrahMos missile for them.

    At present, the company is developing an air-launched version of the Su-30MKI, which falls in the heavy weight category among fighter jets.

    2160**1771
    Islamic Republic News Agency/IRNA NewsCode: 80057140

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/india/2012/india-120401-irna03.htm?_m=3n.002a.469.dd0ao031i6.f99

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:31 am

    Interesting.

    A mach 3 target that performs manouvers would be a tricky target even at medium or high altitude so a steep dive at the target could be a viable option for use against ships.

    The problem there is that the incoming threat will be detected at long range so it needs to use its speed to evade and SAMs directed at it.

    For a land attack weapon the vertical dive is for targets in cities with targets between tall buildings that are normally difficult targets for air power, and also targets in mountains where some targets would be hard to hit due to terrain.

    For a hypersonic scramjet powered Brahmos II a vertical dive would be even more useful because its speed will make interception even more difficult.

    To make it clear to intercept a target it is not sufficient to know where the target is, because by the time the interceptor reaches that location the target will have moved on. The faster the target the further it will have moved on.

    Increase speed of the target means increased lead of aim for the interceptor.

    If the target is a boring artillery shell that has been fired and follows a very predictible path then interception is fairly straight forward. With a target moving at mach 7, or 320m/s x 7 or 2.24km/s that means if the target is T minus 3 seconds from interception you interceptor needs to be well on its way to being at a point about 6.5km in front of where the target is right now... it needs to get there in 3 seconds time... and if it is just half a second late or early then it will miss by a kilometre or more.

    If you think of the interception point as being a big long stick... the end of which is where the target will be when the interceptor intercepts the further away the interceptor is the longer the stick is because the more time the interceptor will need to get to the intercept point.

    Now imagine a 20 degree turn swinging that stick to the left for just 0.5 of a second... the defence will detect the deviation in trajectory and recalculate in real time the change in interception point and immediately command the interceptor to change direction for the new interception point, but what happens if the incoming target then turns back on course and then turns 20 degrees to the right... a 40 degree sweep of that stick that is several kilometres long means a shift in interception point of several kilometres, should the defence now send the interceptor immediately to this new interception point or should it risk waiting to see if it changes direction again... it could also climb or descend or perform a combination of manoeuvres that could shift the interception box dozens of kilometres at a time with the interceptor manoeuvring hard to get to the exact precise place at the right time.

    All this manoeuvring will change the speed performance of both the interceptor and the target which will also effect the interception position.

    It would be a challenge.

    The idea of a smaller Brahmos for lighter aircraft would be interesting too.

    I rather suspect the Oniks, which the Yakhont is based on, was designed for a flight range of 400km or perhaps even up to 600km range so there should probably be room for a significant reduction in size and weight with a range limit of 300km. I would suspect the size of the Yakhont was kept the same to ensure compatibility of launchers and systems.


    Of course with the late model Kh-31s with 250km range and 90kg warheads you could certainly argue that mini Brahmos has been available for a while. Obviously with a 90kg warhead if you want to use it as a dedicated anti carrier weapon that a nuclear warhead would be mandatory, but then if you are firing on carriers then that means there is something very serious happening.

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Austin on Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:39 pm

    Good Details on Brahmos and what ex US Navy officer think about Russian Brahmos and Sunburn

    http://thediplomat.com/the-naval-diplomat/2012/07/27/indias-military-comes-of-age-the-brahmos-missile/

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Austin on Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:24 am

    Indo-Russian Supersonic Cruise Missile, BrahMos - From Concept To Product

    Dr. Sivathanu Pillai, speaking at the Aero India 2013 Airshow Seminar



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    Aster-30 against P-800 'Oniks'

    Post  Deep Throat on Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:44 am

    Is MBDA's Aster 30 capable of intercepting P 800 Oniks and Brahmos ?


    In the Dubai Air Show , MBDA is showcasing the Aster 30 as an interceptor which in their words can intercept sea skimming cruise missiles like P 800 and Brahmos . ( They are actually showing a model of the Type 45 Destroyer with the Aster 30 on it ) .

    Are their any credibility in such assessments ? Is the P 800 or Brahmos actually vulnerable to the Aster 30 ?

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  TR1 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:08 pm

    Yes.

    Now can it intercept a salvo with certainty? That is the real question....

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Viktor on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:43 pm

    BQM-74 just recently struck US AEGIS ship which did not managed to shoot the subsonic target flying up to 50 meters above water line. Patetic. 

    Ship hit by errant drone returns to San Diego

    (two solders where injured)



    Not a good advertisement for AEGIS.

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Deep Throat on Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:06 pm

    Viktor wrote:Not a good advertisement for AEGIS.
    Viktor , good information . My vote .

    That being said the USS Chancellorsville cruiser was not tasked to use the Aegis when this incident happened . It was a freak accident.


    TR1 wrote:Now can it intercept a salvo with certainty? That is the real question....
    Very True . But then unless you have  a stockpile of cruise missiles like US ,Russia or China you cannot fire a salvo  .

    Ergo , the question is ( or rather remains) will ships  fitted with the Aster 30  be able to negate 3 or 4  P 800 / Brahmos that' fired towards the ship ?

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