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    P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

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    GarryB
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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:20 am

    According to Wiki Harpoon Block 2 missiles cost $1.2 million.

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Viktor on Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:59 pm

    GarryB wrote:According to Wiki Harpoon Block 2 missiles cost $1.2 million.

    I think it costs more than 1.2min its like USA selling F-35 to Kanadians and the price is without engines... lol

    besides price Yakhont is much potent weapon and more fearful for those that needs to be intimidated by it.

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  nightcrawler on Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:31 pm

    Because the Indians are acquiring this super cruise missile our general request for the its defence is being carefully studied in the US. have seen some interviews of Congress members & they are arguing for US export of ESSM system to Pakistan. This system specifically is designed against hypersonic cruise threats...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-162_ESSM

    Plus some mockups have been shown by Chinese for an equivalent Sea Ram system by the name FL-3000
    http://61.129.89.199:8088/img/200811/05/94/9267126601966160490.jpg

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Austin on Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:38 am

    To defend against brahmos PN may have to acquire something like Euro Aster or Chinese S-300 Naval Clones and a layerd defence compromising of long range Aster ,ESSM and Sea Ram

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  nightcrawler on Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:50 pm

    Austin I can't come across ant S-300 Chines clone for anti-ship purposes??

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:49 am

    Austin was talking about things that Pakistan can do to try to counter Brahmos.

    A Chinese clone of S-300 is one of the tools he suggests.

    He suggests layers of defence... speed is not the only thing Brahmos uses to get to its target.

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Austin on Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:31 am

    GarryB wrote:He suggests layers of defence... speed is not the only thing Brahmos uses to get to its target.

    Thats right Brahmos is not just a high speed missile but also a very smart missile , so PN will need a combination of Layered Hard Kill and Advanced Soft Kill capability like decoys/jammers/ECM capability to have a fair chance to defend against it.

    If I have to independently look and make an assesment at PN and IN capability the numbers and capability are wide apart , hence PN needs to selectively add certain capability to have a resonable chance to keeep IN at bay.

    for eg keeping a big fleet of conventional/AIP equipped submarine will keep large IN fleet at bay and tie a huge amount of asset to hunt it down , thats asymetric capability and a potent one.

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  nightcrawler on Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:57 pm

    Austin wrote:
    GarryB wrote:He suggests layers of defence... speed is not the only thing Brahmos uses to get to its target.

    Thats right Brahmos is not just a high speed missile but also a very smart missile , so PN will need a combination of Layered Hard Kill and Advanced Soft Kill capability like decoys/jammers/ECM capability to have a fair chance to defend against it.

    If I have to independently look and make an assesment at PN and IN capability the numbers and capability are wide apart , hence PN needs to selectively add certain capability to have a resonable chance to keeep IN at bay.

    for eg keeping a big fleet of conventional/AIP equipped submarine will keep large IN fleet at bay and tie a huge amount of asset to hunt it down , thats asymetric capability and a potent one.
    Yes we know their numerical superiority....
    Though it may be derailing but for countries like us (whose history culture as well as religion extremely overlaps) I also don't think that nuclear fall out too is an option (especially I am talking to Garry)...thats why the cold doctrine.
    However, what we do know that if Brahmos is inducted in great numbers by IN; we will get the countermeasure from Uncle Sam...& thats for sure

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sun May 01, 2011 1:37 pm

    our Van Speijk class Frigate "Oswald Siahaan" launching Yakhont Very Happy



    Loading the Yakhont in the VLS.. well the missile is really long but small in diameter






    [img]http:

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  SerbNationalist on Fri May 06, 2011 1:47 am

    One question, can P-800 be used as a surface attack cruise missile or just as an anti-ship cruise missile?

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Fri May 06, 2011 3:14 am

    The glonass guidance means it can attack land and sea targets.

    Its long relatively slim design means it can be fitted into the USUK universal vertical naval launch system... a very neat idea.

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  nightcrawler on Fri May 06, 2011 6:11 am

    for eg keeping a big fleet of conventional/AIP equipped submarine will keep large IN fleet at bay and tie a huge amount of asset to hunt it down , thats asymetric capability and a potent one.

    Referring to the same strategy Soviets adobted [in their Black fleet] against US aircraft carriers...term is known as 'SEA DENIAL'

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Viktor on Fri May 06, 2011 4:43 pm

    Im astonished by its price witch means for 1bin you could by little less than 850 of thiese missiles.

    Meaning for small amount of money you can cripple entire country enemy.

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  SerbNationalist on Fri May 06, 2011 7:30 pm

    Viktor wrote:Im astonished by its price witch means for 1bin you could by little less than 850 of thiese missiles.

    Meaning for small amount of money you can cripple entire country enemy.
    For one billion you could buy 850??? That means that they are less than 2 million a piece! Wow, is that good info?

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Stealthflanker on Fri May 06, 2011 11:31 pm

    SerbNationalist wrote:
    Viktor wrote:Im astonished by its price witch means for 1bin you could by little less than 850 of thiese missiles.

    Meaning for small amount of money you can cripple entire country enemy.
    For one billion you could buy 850??? That means that they are less than 2 million a piece! Wow, is that good info?

    very good i think.. Yakhont cost U$ 1,2 millions each .

    while warships it's intended to sink may cost some 400-500 millions .. expending 20 would still a good and efficient return for kills i think .

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  SerbNationalist on Sat May 07, 2011 2:14 pm

    Stealthflanker wrote:
    SerbNationalist wrote:
    Viktor wrote:Im astonished by its price witch means for 1bin you could by little less than 850 of thiese missiles.

    Meaning for small amount of money you can cripple entire country enemy.
    For one billion you could buy 850??? That means that they are less than 2 million a piece! Wow, is that good info?

    very good i think.. Yakhont cost U$ 1,2 millions each .

    while warships it's intended to sink may cost some 400-500 millions .. expending 20 would still a good and efficient return for kills i think .

    Actually expending a hundred would be ok too...that would be 120 million while it would be destroying 400-500 million, sometimes more, worth of a ship! Damn...didn't know it was so cheap!

    And like victor said, for a billion you can destroy a small to medium country (firing 850 at them)!

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  IronsightSniper on Sat May 14, 2011 9:06 am

    Chances are, one Yakhont won't sink a ship.

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 15, 2011 4:25 am

    Chances are, one Yakhont won't sink a ship.

    Depends on what size ship we are talking about.

    Argentine Exocets that are much smaller and lighter managed to sink quite a few British ships in the Falklands campaign and they are believed to have not even exploded.

    I suspect if a Yakhont had hit such vessels and its warhead explodes as designed that many ships would have trouble staying afloat let along continuing with what they were doing.

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  SerbNationalist on Sun May 15, 2011 2:48 pm

    IronsightSniper wrote:Chances are, one Yakhont won't sink a ship.

    It doesn't have to, that is the beauty of it! One costs 1,2 million, if you fire 10 of them on a medium ship, that costs 100 million, they will sink it, 12 million compared to 100 million, very nice! Not to mention that 10 of them would probably sink a more serious ship, like a cruiser, missile cruiser...which costs at least 300-500 million, depends! Again beauty! It is a very cheap missile for its performance, For a billion you get 850 of them...that much can sink two carrier battle groups...which is off the hook efficiency and cost-wise!

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  IronsightSniper on Mon May 16, 2011 12:15 am

    Well, of course it depends on the size of the ship, but generally speaking, most ships that a Yakhont might face will probably take 2-3 Yakhonts before sinking.

    The problem is not about Cost it's about Ammunition capacity. IIRC, the something Corvette or Frigate only carries about 8 Yakhonts, and despite only costing about $12m for the missiles only, you still have to think about two things, getting the ship in range without getting shot at and not wasting your entire magazine for one ship.

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Mon May 16, 2011 4:36 am

    A shore based battery like the Bastion-P would be a very effective way of keeping enemy ships at bay, and deterring naval landings over 600kms of your territory.

    In combination with Bal-E it would be a fairly efficient defence for many countries.

    One Bal-E battery carries 64 missiles with up to 32 missiles ready to fire at any one time.

    Regarding costs the real equation is that there are very few navies on the planet today that could ignore such a capable system and for many navies it would be too dangerous to even try.

    For Indonesia it means that navies like the Japanese navy and the Chinese navy will have to think twice before they mess with them now that they have Yakhont in service... and they can use existing vessels... they don't need to spend trillions of dollars on carriers and support vessels to be a respected threat.

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:35 pm



    Russian missile contract with Syria remains valid – official



    © RIA Novosti. Vladimir Fedorenko
    18:56 02/11/2011
    MOSCOW, November 2 (RIA Novosti) –
    Tags: arms sales, Syria, Russia


    A contract on the supply of advanced Russian anti-ship missiles to Syria is being implemented, head of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation Mikhail Dmitriyev said on Wednesday.

    Russia has repeatedly said it would honor a 2007 contract on the delivery of several Bastion anti-ship missile systems armed with SS-N-26 Yakhont supersonic cruise missiles to Syria, despite efforts by Israel and the United States to stop the deal.

    “This contract is under implementation,” Dmitriyev told reporters in Moscow but declined to elaborate.

    The Yakhont missile has a range of 300 kilometers, the capacity to carry a 200-kilogram warhead and the unique ability of being able to cruise several meters above the water surface, making it difficult to detect and intercept.

    Dmitriyev also said Russia will meet its goal to export $11.7 billion worth of weaponry in 2011.

    Russian arms exports topped $10 billion last year.

    http://www.en.ria.ru/world/20111102/168361677.html

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:31 am

    Bet you Gaddafi wished he had bought such things 5 years ago instead of sucking up to the Europeans.

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:02 am

    I should add that the range of the export Yakhont is 300km and my comment about protecting 600km around your border meant that in addition to your land territory it would protect 300km in each direction beyond the beach.

    Its low flight altitude and high speed make it a very serious threat to any vessel.

    On paper several systems might be able to intercept it, but then on paper the British should not have lost any ships to Exocets in the Falklands as they had that same weapon in service themselves and the Sea Wolf should have been able to deal with it.

    In the event their SAMs were not as useful as their decoy countermeasures systems, and they were very lucky that most of the Exocets seem to have not exploded properly.

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    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Austin on Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:18 am

    GarryB wrote:I should add that the range of the export Yakhont is 300km and my comment about protecting 600km around your border meant that in addition to your land territory it would protect 300km in each direction beyond the beach.

    I have been told recently by reliable people that the true range of Brahmos is 600 km ( please dont quote me for it ) , I am assuming this is an all high altitude flight with dive to attack trajectory.

    So i would think Russian Onisk has similar range atleast 500 km that is good to replace the Shipwreck , with the advantage it can be use for land attack if it uses Brahmos software stuff.

    As far as interception of Yakhont/Brahmos/Onisk goes it will be tough ball , all will depend on how well they are tracked in flight and how good the sensor capability is , if a AESA/PESA could track it well then i think systems like Aster-15/30.Barak-8,Shtil-1/9M96 or even Sea Sparrow will tackle it effectively , specially if its not a mass attack.

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