Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Share
    avatar
    Russian Patriot
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1169
    Points : 2063
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 26
    Location : USA- although I am Russian

    P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Russian Patriot on Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:12 pm

    Since Syria wanted Yakhont , I thought i will go over it:

    3M55 Oniks / P-800 Yakhont / P-800 Bolid / SSN-X-26


    The supersonic P-800 Yakhont (Gem) is a ramjet version of P-80 Zubr [SS-N-7 Starbright]. The ship, submarine and coastal-launched Yakhont is launched from the unified ampoule-shaped transport-launching container (TLC). The container is 9 m long, is 0.71 m in diameter. The firing range reaches 300 km (162 nmi.) when flying along a combined trajectory and 120 kg (265 lb.) when following only a low-altitude trajectory. Flight speed varying over the range from M=2.0 to M=2.5 is provided by the kerosene-fueled multi-mode liquid-fuel ramjet. The P-800 Bolid is the encapsulated, submarine launched version of Yakhont. An air-launched version of the missile with the take-off weight of 2,500 kg (5,507 lb.) is also being developed. The closest American counterparts, the Tomahawk and Harpoon missiles, are subsonic; the best French antiship missile, the Exocet, has a range of only 45 miles.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/ss-n-26.htm

    3M55 Oniks / P-800 Yakhont / P-800 Bolid / SSN-X-26 Specifications :
    Country of Origin Russia  
    Builder Beriev  
    Role Amphibious anti-submarine patrol aircraft  
    Range 300 km mixed trajectory
    120 km low trajectory
    Speed Mach 2 to 2.5
    Flight altitude 5 to 15 meters, final phase
    Weight of warhead 200 kg [about]
    Guidance active-passive, radar seeker head
    Minimum target detection range 50 km in active mode
    Maximum seeker head search angle 45 degrees
    Propulsion solid propellant booster stage

    liquid-propellant ramjet sustainre motor

    Launcher type underwater, surface ship, land
    Launch method from closed bottom launch-container
    Launch angle range 15 to 90 degrees
    Weight 3,000 kg launch
    3,900 kg in launch-container  
    Launch-container dimensions 8.9 meters length
    0.7 meters diameter

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/ss-n-26-specs.htm


    Last edited by Russian Patriot on Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16040
    Points : 16671
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Onyx vs Yakhont

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:31 pm

    I was under the impression that Onyx was the Russian model of the weapon and that the Yakhont was the downgraded model for export as required by the Missile Technology Control Regime which limits the export of missiles with a payload of 500kgs or more or a range of more than 300km.
    There is no reason why the Onyx should be limited to 300km range or restricted in warhead size.
    It is the same with the Iskander-E which is an exportable weapon, while the Russian Army actually use a weapon called Tender-M which has a different heavier payload and longer range according to some sources.
    avatar
    Viktor
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5669
    Points : 6318
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Viktor on Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:50 pm

    Im wondering if Russia intends to replace Granit with 300km Yakhont/Onix or what?
    I mean 700km trade with 300km is does not sound good and I dont think its so mutch trouble once the missile is being developt (like increasing Onix range etc)
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16040
    Points : 16671
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:05 am

    Increasing the range of Oniks shouldn't be too hard, I would expect increasing its speed might also be a goal.

    For a while without a space based system operational having 300km range missiles instead of 700km range weapons is not actually much of a handicap simply because detecting carrier groups at 700km would be rather problematic for a vessel carrying these weapons.
    avatar
    nightcrawler
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 536
    Points : 652
    Join date : 2010-08-20
    Age : 27
    Location : Pakistan

    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  nightcrawler on Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:24 pm

    @ airframe of Yakhont

    Tell me people (by the looks of it) Yakhont I assume (may be wrong) has a movable nosecone. What is the significance of this design which I believe must be phased out in favour of 'Gas dynamics' maneuvering technology
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16040
    Points : 16671
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:48 am

    Should also point out that Yakhont is the export version of the Onyx... the Yakhont is limited by international treaties to have a range limit of 300km, but Onyx has no such limits and is probably longer ranged and with a heavier warhead.

    The land based ballistic missile that replaces the Scud in the Russian inventory is the Iskander-M, though it is sometimes called Tender. The Russian missile is reported to have a range of about 480 kms while the export model has a range limited at 280km because of range restrictions on exported weapons.

    Regarding the movable nosecone on Yakhont, most jet engines burn fuel subsonically and will choke on supersonic airflow so most supersonic aircraft with a jet engine will have adjustable intakes to change the airflow so the air enters the engine subsonically. A moveable nosecone on the Yakhont would be used the same way the radar is moved on a Mig-21 to control airflow to the engine at different air speeds.

    Of course the Yakhont is a ramjet powered missile so air goes in the front and is compressed by the tube getting narrow, fuel is added and burnt and it exits faster than it went in generating thrust. A ramjet still needs subsonic airflow to operate.
    A Scramjet, or supersonic combustion ramjet can burn fuel at supersonic speeds and ironically needs an adjustable intake even more to control the airflow so that the supersonic air and fuel mix properly and are ignited properly to generate thrust.
    avatar
    nightcrawler
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 536
    Points : 652
    Join date : 2010-08-20
    Age : 27
    Location : Pakistan

    Im wondering if Russia intends to replace Granit with 300km Yakhont/Onix or what?

    Post  nightcrawler on Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:40 am

    @GarryB

    Thnx 4 your explanation.

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 6086
    Points : 6492
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Austin on Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:33 pm

    The Brahmos seems to be getting better , we now have a Block 3 variant which can be used in mountain warfare.

    Groshkov Class ships will be armed with Brahmos.

    BrahMos Block-III+ Test-fired



    DRDO Statement: The BRAHMOS Block III+ version was successfully test fired this morning at 1055 hours from a test range in Orissa. This landmark test once again established the mountain warfare capability of the supersonic cruise missile with new guidance scheme incorporating large scale manoeuvre and steep dive with precision strike capability. A naval ship placed with telemetry stations confirmed the accuracy of the mission and marked it as a text book launch. In this launch campaign the missile was put though extreme conditions and it successfully went through all complicated manoeuvres as envisaged in the battlefield in mountain terrains following the exact flight path given to it, said Dr. A. Sivathanu Pillai, CEO & Managing Director of BrahMos Aerospace.
    avatar
    Vladimir79
    Grand Marshal
    Grand Marshal

    Posts : 2167
    Points : 3059
    Join date : 2009-07-10

    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:26 pm

    Gorshkov will be armed with Yakhont.

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 6086
    Points : 6492
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Austin on Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:36 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:Gorshkov will be armed with Yakhont.

    No the russians have explicitly mentioned that Groshkov will be the first ship to have Brahmos ,its a joint development where both India and Russia will adopt it.

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 6086
    Points : 6492
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Austin on Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:09 pm

    Video of Brahmos Block 3 launch that took today ( via livefist )

    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16040
    Points : 16671
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:19 am

    No the russians have explicitly mentioned that Groshkov will be the first ship to have Brahmos ,its a joint development where both India and Russia will adopt it.

    First of all Yakhont is the downgraded export model of the Onyx, but the Onyx is not for export and is technically secret so they will call it by its export name, Yakhont.

    Second the Brahmos is based on the Yakhont but the modifications made to Yakhont to create Brahmos could very easily be applied to the Onyx which is a longer ranged missile with a larger warhead.

    Third I think the Russians might apply the improvements of the Brahmos to the Onyx and simply publicly call it Brahmos because the Brahmos upgrade was a significant upgrade over Yakhont.

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 6086
    Points : 6492
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Austin on Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:38 am

    Brahmos has a decent range of ~ 290 km for arm frigate and corvette , More ever they have publicly stated that Groshkov class frigate will be armed with Brahmos http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080620/111481295.html

    Brahmos Now comes in 3 blocks

    Brahmos block 1 --> Antiship missile plus Land Attack for large Radio Contrast target

    Brahmos block 2 --> Land Attack with new SCAN seeker plus Steep Diving Complex Trajectory which can attack a small target among multiple targets

    Brahmos block 3 ---> Land Attack with improvement in sensors to attack targets in mountainous terrain.

    Most of the seeker and electronic improvement is Indian contribution to Brahmos

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 6086
    Points : 6492
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Austin on Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:05 am

    Ok this is what Dr Pillai said on Brahmos

    http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/article928444.ece

    While BrahMos Block-I version is an anti-ship missile, Block-II is an Army version meant for attacking targets on land. The latest Block-III is meant for operations in mountain warfare where the missile has to hit the target with a steep dive, Dr. Pillai said.

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 6086
    Points : 6492
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Austin on Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:59 am

    Russia spat delays BrahMos air version
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16040
    Points : 16671
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:15 am

    While BrahMos Block-I version is an anti-ship missile, Block-II
    is an Army version meant for attacking targets on land. The latest
    Block-III is meant for operations in mountain warfare where the missile
    has to hit the target with a steep dive, Dr. Pillai said.

    So the Russians would really only use the Block I model as the Russian Army seems happy with Iskander/Tender-M.

    Russia spat delays BrahMos air version

    The Su-30MKI is Indias plane. AFAIK the Yakhont/Onyx has already been tested on the Su-34... I have seen a video of a launch. I would expect they also have or are testing Yakhont/Onyx on the Su-35 as well... but who should pay for it to be integrated to the Su-30MKI? The Su-30MKI is Indias plane.

    BTW the USUK vertical launcher fitted to the Gorshkov should be compatible with Brahmos, Onyx, and Yakhont, because they are all very similar. This will also make Russian exported naval vessels more attractive because if India doesn't approve of export of Brahmos they can have Yakhont, while Russia can choose Onyx (for range) or Brahmos (for flexibility).

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 6086
    Points : 6492
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Austin on Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:47 am

    ^^^ Yes I agree , Brahmos is a 49:51 JV between NPO Mash and DRDO , so cant expect NPO to alone foot the bill , its Brahmos Corp who should.

    For MKI reconversion the IAF should foot the bill since IAF will use it.
    avatar
    SerbNationalist
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 37
    Points : 39
    Join date : 2010-09-03
    Age : 29
    Location : Београд

    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  SerbNationalist on Fri May 06, 2011 1:47 am

    One question, can P-800 be used as a surface attack cruise missile or just as an anti-ship cruise missile?
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16040
    Points : 16671
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Fri May 06, 2011 3:14 am

    The glonass guidance means it can attack land and sea targets.

    Its long relatively slim design means it can be fitted into the USUK universal vertical naval launch system... a very neat idea.
    avatar
    Russian Patriot
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1169
    Points : 2063
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 26
    Location : USA- although I am Russian

    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:35 pm



    Russian missile contract with Syria remains valid – official



    © RIA Novosti. Vladimir Fedorenko
    18:56 02/11/2011
    MOSCOW, November 2 (RIA Novosti) –
    Tags: arms sales, Syria, Russia


    A contract on the supply of advanced Russian anti-ship missiles to Syria is being implemented, head of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation Mikhail Dmitriyev said on Wednesday.

    Russia has repeatedly said it would honor a 2007 contract on the delivery of several Bastion anti-ship missile systems armed with SS-N-26 Yakhont supersonic cruise missiles to Syria, despite efforts by Israel and the United States to stop the deal.

    “This contract is under implementation,” Dmitriyev told reporters in Moscow but declined to elaborate.

    The Yakhont missile has a range of 300 kilometers, the capacity to carry a 200-kilogram warhead and the unique ability of being able to cruise several meters above the water surface, making it difficult to detect and intercept.

    Dmitriyev also said Russia will meet its goal to export $11.7 billion worth of weaponry in 2011.

    Russian arms exports topped $10 billion last year.

    http://www.en.ria.ru/world/20111102/168361677.html
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16040
    Points : 16671
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:31 am

    Bet you Gaddafi wished he had bought such things 5 years ago instead of sucking up to the Europeans.
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16040
    Points : 16671
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:02 am

    I should add that the range of the export Yakhont is 300km and my comment about protecting 600km around your border meant that in addition to your land territory it would protect 300km in each direction beyond the beach.

    Its low flight altitude and high speed make it a very serious threat to any vessel.

    On paper several systems might be able to intercept it, but then on paper the British should not have lost any ships to Exocets in the Falklands as they had that same weapon in service themselves and the Sea Wolf should have been able to deal with it.

    In the event their SAMs were not as useful as their decoy countermeasures systems, and they were very lucky that most of the Exocets seem to have not exploded properly.

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 6086
    Points : 6492
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Austin on Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:18 am

    GarryB wrote:I should add that the range of the export Yakhont is 300km and my comment about protecting 600km around your border meant that in addition to your land territory it would protect 300km in each direction beyond the beach.

    I have been told recently by reliable people that the true range of Brahmos is 600 km ( please dont quote me for it ) , I am assuming this is an all high altitude flight with dive to attack trajectory.

    So i would think Russian Onisk has similar range atleast 500 km that is good to replace the Shipwreck , with the advantage it can be use for land attack if it uses Brahmos software stuff.

    As far as interception of Yakhont/Brahmos/Onisk goes it will be tough ball , all will depend on how well they are tracked in flight and how good the sensor capability is , if a AESA/PESA could track it well then i think systems like Aster-15/30.Barak-8,Shtil-1/9M96 or even Sea Sparrow will tackle it effectively , specially if its not a mass attack.
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16040
    Points : 16671
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  GarryB on Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:12 am

    So i would think Russian Onisk has similar range atleast 500 km that is good to replace the Shipwreck , with the advantage it can be use for land attack if it uses Brahmos software stuff.

    I have been told that the Oniks is actually larger and heavier than Yakhont and actually has a range of 700km or more and is replacing Granit.

    The Brahmos has the advantage of land attack capabilities over the Oniks and Yakhont, but I believe the Russian Navy will only use it as an anti ship missile and will use Klub for land attack.

    if a AESA/PESA could track it well then i think systems like Aster-15/30.Barak-8,Shtil-1/9M96 or even Sea Sparrow will tackle it effectively , specially if its not a mass attack.

    Engaging very low flying targets is problematic, and very fast low flying targets become even more difficult.

    You would need early warning and time to prepare systems and even then you make one mistake and it will get through.

    On paper Exocet should have been no problem at all for British ships in the early 1980s, but in practise it was a real threat.
    avatar
    IronsightSniper
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 454
    Points : 468
    Join date : 2010-09-25
    Location : California, USA

    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  IronsightSniper on Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:10 am

    In theory the USN could shoot down an Onyx, but like Garry says, it'd require early warning first. Which, actually wouldn't be that hard since a missile flying at high speeds at that low altitude will generate plenty of friction which will make it a flying potato to FLIRs (Visual Horizon isn't that far off), though, that would mean a very, very short period to launch say, an ESSM at it.

    Overall, if you want to protect a ship against sea-skimming high-speed death machines:

    1. Get bigger radars
    2. Get faster reacting missiles

    Sponsored content

    Re: P-800 Oniks and BrahMos

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:52 am