Project 971: Akula class

PapaDragon wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:India doesn't have the blueprints to this. Its leased, not sold.

And it's staffed by Indians who are not immune to cash.

Just having the sub doesn't mean they understand the construction, or have access to technical data.

There is a major claus in the lease agreement that if the submarine suffers a certain level of damage it must be repaired at Russian docks.

That is because the Indians do not have access to the sensitives on the ship they only know enough to do surface repairs, not deep repairs, deep repairs would require the blueprints and other information. so the secert information of the akula's are quite safe in order for India to know this they would have to take the sub apart completely. Reserving engineering is not an easy thing to do.

While I agree with alot of what you say Pap's on this one you are mistaken.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

Big_Gazza wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:There is no such thing has akula "export" model that akula was a standard one leased to India.

Nerpa/Chakra appears to have been nerfed, eg SOKS sensors have been removed from the exterior.

I have great doubts it was downgraded since that would involve swamping most of the subs inner parts and equipment with lesser ones.

Only downgraded from the point of view of classified technology like the SOKS wake detection & tracking system.  Even now, the SOKS is a tightly guarded secret as tracking enemy SSBNs by wake detection is of strategic importance, and Russia would never give this to the wobble-heads.  Other key systems such as MGK-540 sonar can be degraded by simple software configuration.  Disable and delete classified data processing algorithms to de-tune the system and reduce detection ranges and ability to filter out noise.  Remove acoustic signatures (eg US nuke subs pump noise characteristics).  That way, the US can't get a handle on system performances from general discussions with their Indian counterparts.  None of those "Yeah, we can detect an Ohio at 110kms even when she's silent running at 3 knots, we did it last year when I was onboard)...

There is no need to sanitise propulsion and marine systems, but key technologies? I certainly would.  Indians only need to be able to detect paki subs and maybe the odd Chinese.  They don't need full Russian-only capabilities, and they certainly can't be trusted to keep their gobs shut on what the boat can do.

Carefully, "Pike"

In Russia and the United States do submarines, in other countries - underwater targets

https://vpk-news.ru/articles/40139

2nd Pr.971 (NATO Akula) SSN K-263 Barnaul (a.k.a. Delfin up to 9.2.2002) shall be "rendered harmless and transferred to a storage site by the end of 2019" by Rosatom at an estimated cost of 581.7mil Rub (~10mil $)

http://rostender.info/news/8445

There is an unresolved issue with the financing of the the modernization of Pr. 971. Interview of the general director of Zvezdochka ship repair yard

https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/197903.html

Austin wrote:Carefully, "Pike"

In Russia and the United States do submarines, in other countries - underwater targets

https://vpk-news.ru/articles/40139

I disagree with this, the Brits, French, Germans, Swedes and Japanese all make pretty fine and dangerous subs.

Talk of leasing a 2nd Akula to India is back
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3442283.html
Apparently not actually 2 simultaneous but a 2nd to replace Nerpa when the existing lease expires.

Candidates are the 2 from Pacific that were transferred to North for upgrades in 2014.
But talks about a 72mth (6yr) upgrade once the deal is done?
What they been doing with them since 2014 already?

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3444299.html suggests Samara is the most likely candidate.
Still seems kinda crazy when Russia is itself severely short on actually active/modern SSNs.

hoom wrote:Talk of leasing a 2nd Akula to India is back
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3442283.html
Apparently not actually 2 simultaneous but a 2nd to replace Nerpa when the existing lease expires.

Candidates are the 2 from Pacific that were transferred to North for upgrades in 2014.
But talks about a 72mth (6yr) upgrade once the deal is done?
What they been doing with them since 2014 already?

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3444299.html suggests Samara is the most likely candidate.
Still seems kinda crazy when Russia is itself severely short on actually active/modern SSNs.

Or it showing that Russia is not short of SSNs.

We don't know the exact availability level of the US submarines, but I think they are not in a better shape than Russia.

We don't know the exact availability level of the US submarines, but I think they are not in a better shape than Russia.

Maintenance backlogs yes but they've got 15* Virginias all post 2000, mostly 2 or 3 yrs from laid down to in-commission, another 9 in build & 32 aging LA class.
Even if a lot of the LA class are in bad shape its still a lot more actually active SSNs than Russia has nominally in service.

Singular_Transform wrote:...Or it showing that Russia is not short of SSNs.

We don't know the exact availability level of the US submarines, but I think they are not in a better shape than Russia.

Russia is definitely short on SSNs and USA is in infinitely better shape, it's not even up for debate

This Akula lease is supposed to cost slightly over 3 billion bucks which is enough to buy three Yasens and if they do use that money to instantly order more of them then it could be called a good deal

Otherwise it's just a waste of perfectly good submarine, one that they are desperately short on

PapaDragon wrote:
Russia is definitely short on SSNs and USA is in infinitely better shape, it's not even up for debate

I'd say that numbers should be put in perspective. On paper they lack SSNs, because almost all of them are in some kind of overhaul, leaving only 4 operational, but they decided to make 24 Ladas and Varshavyankas instead. Wait, what?

I think that, strategically, Russia is first focusing on dominating Mediterranean with missile corvettes and SSKs. Only after taking care of domestic affairs, a need will arise to go further into Atlantic and Pacific, a need to construct US-like huge fleet of SSNs. You have to follow some evolutional steps. Like US became superpower only after setting the Western hemisphere firmly under their control in the late 19th century. So until 2030s, patrolling distant waters once a year with one of 4 active SSNs is enough. Overly ambitious and delusional plans show lack of contact with reality, making the person/country only damage, signalling that you don't have to take it seriously.

So instead of Soviet nostalgia, perhaps we should be talking about what kind of SSKs will be taken most seriously in Ankara, Athens and Rome, operating from Tartous and Benghazi.