Project 971: Akula class

PapaDragon wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:India doesn't have the blueprints to this. Its leased, not sold.

And it's staffed by Indians who are not immune to cash.

Just having the sub doesn't mean they understand the construction, or have access to technical data.

There is a major claus in the lease agreement that if the submarine suffers a certain level of damage it must be repaired at Russian docks.

That is because the Indians do not have access to the sensitives on the ship they only know enough to do surface repairs, not deep repairs, deep repairs would require the blueprints and other information. so the secert information of the akula's are quite safe in order for India to know this they would have to take the sub apart completely. Reserving engineering is not an easy thing to do.

While I agree with alot of what you say Pap's on this one you are mistaken.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

Big_Gazza wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:There is no such thing has akula "export" model that akula was a standard one leased to India.

Nerpa/Chakra appears to have been nerfed, eg SOKS sensors have been removed from the exterior.

I have great doubts it was downgraded since that would involve swamping most of the subs inner parts and equipment with lesser ones.

Only downgraded from the point of view of classified technology like the SOKS wake detection & tracking system.  Even now, the SOKS is a tightly guarded secret as tracking enemy SSBNs by wake detection is of strategic importance, and Russia would never give this to the wobble-heads.  Other key systems such as MGK-540 sonar can be degraded by simple software configuration.  Disable and delete classified data processing algorithms to de-tune the system and reduce detection ranges and ability to filter out noise.  Remove acoustic signatures (eg US nuke subs pump noise characteristics).  That way, the US can't get a handle on system performances from general discussions with their Indian counterparts.  None of those "Yeah, we can detect an Ohio at 110kms even when she's silent running at 3 knots, we did it last year when I was onboard)...

There is no need to sanitise propulsion and marine systems, but key technologies? I certainly would.  Indians only need to be able to detect paki subs and maybe the odd Chinese.  They don't need full Russian-only capabilities, and they certainly can't be trusted to keep their gobs shut on what the boat can do.

Carefully, "Pike"

In Russia and the United States do submarines, in other countries - underwater targets

https://vpk-news.ru/articles/40139

2nd Pr.971 (NATO Akula) SSN K-263 Barnaul (a.k.a. Delfin up to 9.2.2002) shall be "rendered harmless and transferred to a storage site by the end of 2019" by Rosatom at an estimated cost of 581.7mil Rub (~10mil $)

http://rostender.info/news/8445

There is an unresolved issue with the financing of the the modernization of Pr. 971. Interview of the general director of Zvezdochka ship repair yard

https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/197903.html

Austin wrote:Carefully, "Pike"

In Russia and the United States do submarines, in other countries - underwater targets

https://vpk-news.ru/articles/40139

I disagree with this, the Brits, French, Germans, Swedes and Japanese all make pretty fine and dangerous subs.

Talk of leasing a 2nd Akula to India is back
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3442283.html
Apparently not actually 2 simultaneous but a 2nd to replace Nerpa when the existing lease expires.

Candidates are the 2 from Pacific that were transferred to North for upgrades in 2014.
But talks about a 72mth (6yr) upgrade once the deal is done?
What they been doing with them since 2014 already?

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3444299.html suggests Samara is the most likely candidate.
Still seems kinda crazy when Russia is itself severely short on actually active/modern SSNs.

hoom wrote:Talk of leasing a 2nd Akula to India is back
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3442283.html
Apparently not actually 2 simultaneous but a 2nd to replace Nerpa when the existing lease expires.

Candidates are the 2 from Pacific that were transferred to North for upgrades in 2014.
But talks about a 72mth (6yr) upgrade once the deal is done?
What they been doing with them since 2014 already?

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3444299.html suggests Samara is the most likely candidate.
Still seems kinda crazy when Russia is itself severely short on actually active/modern SSNs.

Or it showing that Russia is not short of SSNs.

We don't know the exact availability level of the US submarines, but I think they are not in a better shape than Russia.

We don't know the exact availability level of the US submarines, but I think they are not in a better shape than Russia.

Maintenance backlogs yes but they've got 15* Virginias all post 2000, mostly 2 or 3 yrs from laid down to in-commission, another 9 in build & 32 aging LA class.
Even if a lot of the LA class are in bad shape its still a lot more actually active SSNs than Russia has nominally in service.

Singular_Transform wrote:...Or it showing that Russia is not short of SSNs.

We don't know the exact availability level of the US submarines, but I think they are not in a better shape than Russia.

Russia is definitely short on SSNs and USA is in infinitely better shape, it's not even up for debate

This Akula lease is supposed to cost slightly over 3 billion bucks which is enough to buy three Yasens and if they do use that money to instantly order more of them then it could be called a good deal

Otherwise it's just a waste of perfectly good submarine, one that they are desperately short on

PapaDragon wrote:
Russia is definitely short on SSNs and USA is in infinitely better shape, it's not even up for debate

I'd say that numbers should be put in perspective. On paper they lack SSNs, because almost all of them are in some kind of overhaul, leaving only 4 operational, but they decided to make 24 Ladas and Varshavyankas instead. Wait, what?

I think that, strategically, Russia is first focusing on dominating Mediterranean with missile corvettes and SSKs. Only after taking care of domestic affairs, a need will arise to go further into Atlantic and Pacific, a need to construct US-like huge fleet of SSNs. You have to follow some evolutional steps. Like US became superpower only after setting the Western hemisphere firmly under their control in the late 19th century. So until 2030s, patrolling distant waters once a year with one of 4 active SSNs is enough. Overly ambitious and delusional plans show lack of contact with reality, making the person/country only damage, signalling that you don't have to take it seriously.

So instead of Soviet nostalgia, perhaps we should be talking about what kind of SSKs will be taken most seriously in Ankara, Athens and Rome, operating from Tartous and Benghazi.

India and Russia ink $3 billion deal for lease of third nuclear submarine

https://theprint.in/defence/india-and-russia-ink-3-billion-deal-for-lease-of-third-nuclear-submarine/202509/

Which 971 is going to be modernised for lease as Chakra III? Kashalot? the unfinished Irbis?

Yasens seem to be coming along nicely though; fast construction now with many laid down in parallel. They can always order more.

So instead of Soviet nostalgia, perhaps we should be talking about what kind of SSKs will be taken most seriously in Ankara, Athens and Rome, operating from Tartous and Benghazi.

I don't think Soviet nostalgia comes in to this.... the Soviets never had a global fleet... they had some ships they could send on a long trip abroad to show the flag, but they couldn't really send a task force to the South Atlantic and sit them off the Falklands Islands for a couple of months and support operations there.

Of course having said that... why would they... why waste resources for that ability, then or now?

Well now that the west is doing its best to push Russia and to a lessor extent China into either following their rule, which I think you will agree is not acceptable to either... unlike the spineless has beens in the EU, the Russians and Chinese have no reason to be grateful to the US for anything and don't see any reason to do as they are told... made easier by the Trump attempt at carrot and stick... but without the carrot... fucking idiot...

Russia is almost a land locked country, and while trade is increasing with China, it needs new trade partners that it can actually trust and deal with on equal terms, and those sort of partners don't exist in the west either because they have no interest in trade agreements where Russia might profit and grow and develop, or the US will see them trading with Russia and Russia benefiting from the trade and trying to put a stop to it and try to replace Russia with its own products to make a profit itself... case in point, Russian gas to europe.

Russia needs to expand its horizons past the bitter twisted America loving neighbours it has on its borders and look elsewhere for partners... the key is they don't have to be rich... trading with poor countries isn't as stupid as it sounds because as you trade you develop ties and they develop too... you can both become more wealthy with fair trade... you can become obscenely rich if you rob them blind like the west does... you don't think they have a better life style because they are smarter or morally better do you?
It is because they steal resources from the weak... offer the weak a much better deal... China has been doing it for a while and their clients in Africa appreciate the trade and want more... and there are things Russia can supply that China cannot.

Also there is a huge market south of the US of A that the US will fight tooth and nail for... which as we have seen in the last few years shows their teeth and claws and makes everyone realise the Hollywood image of America is just an image.

I don't see them building up carrier groups to invade or attack, but they will need them to defend allies from western retaliation for not going with western companies... it is playing out right now in Venezuela for goodness sake... right now Russia can only support Maduro with words... if only they had a carrier and some major ships and cargo ships with some food surplus aid they could provide that could turn up off the Venezuelan coast about now... and perhaps get some expert help on their electricity grid...

I realise having a record playing in the background... Wagner isn't it?... is a step they are taking and they like the polite approach, but sometimes the US needs to be told to pull their head in... south and central america should start calling themselves something else so the US of A doesn't keep thinking it means it belongs to them.

Yasens seem to be coming along nicely though; fast construction now with many laid down in parallel. They can always order more.

If the problem was lack of available funds right now then the lease is a good solution...

Yasens seem to be coming along nicely though; fast construction now with many laid down in parallel

Lots in construction, still only 2 launched & only the first in service.
3rd was laid down 4yrs after Kazan.
I'd like to see more of them in the water before leasing out one of the few operational Akulas.

hoom wrote:

Yasens seem to be coming along nicely though; fast construction now with many laid down in parallel

Lots in construction, still only 2 launched & only the first in service.
3rd was laid down 4yrs after Kazan.
I'd like to see more of them in the water before leasing out one of the few operational Akulas.

There will be a nice power up when they start puting them at sea if everything goes as planed. Most of those being build should come between 2020-2022. The last 5 were started btw 2013-2017. 3 in 2013-2014 and 2 in 2016 -2017.

Add to that the akulas that should come back from modernization.

They should worry about how puting all that in service in very short time btw tge delivries.

hoom wrote:

Yasens seem to be coming along nicely though; fast construction now with many laid down in parallel

Lots in construction, still only 2 launched & only the first in service.
3rd was laid down 4yrs after Kazan.
I'd like to see more of them in the water before leasing out one of the few operational Akulas.

Agreed, they have another big gap in SSN construction now

They keep talking about Huskies for years but nothing is happening on that front which would absolutely be no problem at all if they kept building Yasens but still nothing

Does anyone know if these subs have upgraded their Granat missile to the new tested version named 9M729? It is very similar to kalibr with great range although its not quite 3m54, the r-500 is closer to the rk-55. Anyone have better information on this? Range of 9m729 exceed 3000km. This makes akulas boomers

Why would they equip it with an INF-compliant short-range land-launched missile when a Submarine is not bound by INF -> can use the already developed submarine version of full-range 3M14 Kalibr?

hoom wrote:Why would they equip it with an INF-compliant short-range land-launched missile when a Submarine is not bound by INF -> can use the already developed submarine version of full-range 3M14 Kalibr?

Also, the INF is deader than dead.

Granits are anti ship and land attack cruise missiles as are Calibrs, so it would remain an SSGN rather than an SSBN.

Granits are huge and are carried by Oscars... any anti ship missile they might have carried would have been Onyx/Yakhont and soon will be Zircon.

Granat not Granit.

Granat was the basis for kalibr family. It was not accurate enough for high precision strikes so it was mostly nuclear armed.

It is nowhere near Kalibr in terms of capabilities.

MiamiMachineShop wrote:Range of 9m729 exceed 3000km.

No, that is US government agitprop churned out as part of their ploy to blame Russia for their decision to knife the INF treaty. There is no evidence to dispute the Russian contention that the 9M729 is just a modified 9M728 with a heavier warhead and improved guidance. Its the same size and overall config of the INF-compliant 9M728 yet Murican lying shitbags insist it has 6x the range.... stupid is as stupid does...

K-331 MAGADAN, AKULA class submarine is in dry dock at ZVEZDA.



Sometime at the end of the last year, K-331 entered dry dock in Far East shipyard ZVEZDA, after K-186 OMSK, OSCAR II class submarine, left it.
K 331 Magadan was waiting for possible repair at Zvezda Shipyard for the past 10 years.
Lets hope that it will return to service with Pacific fleet, even though it is very unlikely considering the fact that her name 'Magadan' was given to the new Project 636.3 Kilo class submarine being constructed for Pacific fleet.

https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/120423/