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    Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

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    Werewolf
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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:45 pm

    That people are still so stupid and ignorant to blame Germans lose on the "russian winter" that this is the only reason Germany lost the war...seriously Like in 1939,40,41,42,43 all this years like there was  no Winter in eastern front or what? And all russians are half bear half vodka that they never can freeze and die of cold or what?

    There is a saying that is used here in the Bundeswehr "There is no bad weather, only bad clothing."

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  etaepsilonk on Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:50 pm

    Werewolf wrote:That people are still so stupid and ignorant to blame Germans lose on the "russian winter" that this is the only reason Germany lost the war...seriously Like in 1939,40,41,42,43 all this years like there was  no Winter in eastern front or what? And all russians are half bear half vodka that they never can freeze and die of cold or what?

    There is a saying that is used here in the Bundeswehr "There is no bad weather, only bad clothing."

    Well, facts say so, isn't it?  Smile 

    Most of the time, German army was winning battles with significant or complete air superiority, and at the same time loosing battles, then not having it, right? Smile

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  Eagelx on Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:42 pm

    etaepsilonk wrote:
    Also, in terms of tanks, Russian T-90 is much better

    T-90 might be better, but hows the T-99? I'm curious. confused 

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  runaway on Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:41 am

    etaepsilonk wrote:
    Most of the time, German army was winning battles with significant or complete air superiority, and at the same time loosing battles, then not having it, right? Smile

    You should read history, shortage in trained pilots and outproduced and outnumbered in aircraft made sure Luftwaffe would loose air superiority. Just as they was outnumbered and outproduced in every way, naval, tank, infantry.

    In Russia the German army was like a Elephant attacking a horde of ants, he will kill millions of them but in the end their numbers will overcome him and he will be eaten to the bones.


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    Russia compared to

    Post  Pugnax on Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:10 am

    The issue is  in 49

    North Korea ,these were very tough soviet soldiers who did great things in the Patriotic War.They tend to be very bad versus western contacts, their t-34/85s beat the best shermans ,yes but at a loss,crack crews brewed up.Its an old war ,new ones will be quite the same,maybe artic of antarctic.

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  collegeboy16 on Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:25 am

    runaway wrote:
    You should read history, shortage in trained pilots and outproduced and outnumbered in aircraft made sure Luftwaffe would loose air superiority. Just as they was outnumbered and outproduced in every way, naval, tank, infantry.

    In Russia the German army was like a Elephant attacking a horde of ants, he will kill millions of them but in the end their numbers will overcome him and he will be eaten to the bones.

    Luftwaffe as an airforce is sh!t, the brits made damn sure of that. However they excelled as air support arm of army.

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:19 am

    Most of the time, German army was winning battles with significant or complete air superiority, and at the same time loosing battles, then not having it, right?

    Couldn't possibly be because early in the war the Germans were ready and equipped and had developed and TESTED tactics that worked in the real world, while most of their enemies were equipped with obsolete equipment and were not ready for war?

    I mean the early model German tanks were rubbish but they were designed for real combat. Early Soviet tanks were actually rather better, but there were still plenty of not so good tanks.

    I do enjoy reading about western sources talking about Soviet tanks not having proper radio equipment... most tanks produced in the late 1930s didn't have great radios anyway, and when you are building them in the huge numbers the Soviets built them in it makes it hard to equip them to such high standards.

    The Soviet air force was enormous when the Germans invaded but the vast majority of aircraft were I-16s and I-15s and were totally obsolete. they had a few Mig-3s and a few Yak-1s but the majority were Laggs with not so great performance. Obviously with a radial engine the La-5FN and La-7 were excellent aircraft, but by the time they entered service the war had already been decided...

    Luftwaffe as an airforce is sh!t, the brits made damn sure of that. However they excelled as air support arm of army.

    In many ways the Luftwaffe was the super mobile super effective artillery arm of the army.

    If they had developed four engine bombers they might not have wasted money and time and effort on the super rail guns they wasted their time with.


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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  etaepsilonk on Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:43 pm

    runaway wrote:
    etaepsilonk wrote:
    Most of the time, German army was winning battles with significant or complete air superiority, and at the same time loosing battles, then not having it, right? Smile

    You should read history, shortage in trained pilots and outproduced and outnumbered in aircraft made sure Luftwaffe would loose air superiority. Just as they was outnumbered and outproduced in every way, naval, tank, infantry.

    In Russia the German army was like a Elephant attacking a horde of ants, he will kill millions of them but in the end their numbers will overcome him and he will be eaten to the bones.


    I've read not too less about history. How about you?
    About outnumbered airforce, I remind you, that in 41, and 42, Soviet VVS was significantly outnumbering Luftwaffe, and got their asses handed to them... twice. Only in 43 , with addition of more modern fighters and better training, Soviet pilots actually began to fight back seriously.

    Oh and the famous "russian win because of numbers"  Rolling Eyes 

    There were at least 3 main battles, which broke the Germans: Moscow, Stalingrad, Kursk, NONE of them involved "Elephant killing ants in the millions", like you say.

    No offense, but I think it's not me, who should read history more...






    To collegeboy
    "Luftwaffe as an airforce is sh!t, the brits made damn sure of that. However they excelled as air support arm of army."

    Excuse me????
    Early in the war, Luftwaffe was the most powerful airforce IN THE WORLD




    To GarryB:
    "Couldn't possibly be because early in the war the Germans were ready and equipped and had developed and TESTED tactics that worked in the real world, while most of their enemies were equipped with obsolete equipment and were not ready for war?"

    If we compare militaries of Germany, and her foes, we can clearly see, that allies weren't ready ONLY in the air. On the ground, they were prepared pretty well...







    "Obviously with a radial engine the La-5FN and La-7 were excellent aircraft, but by the time they entered service the war had already been decided..."
    No, it isn't. LA-5FN was introduced in 43, then war was far from decided....












    "In many ways the Luftwaffe was the super mobile super effective artillery arm of the army."

    And not only that. In many ways, airforce was vital to Wehrmacht strategy.






    "If they had developed four engine bombers they might not have wasted money and time and effort on the super rail guns they wasted their time with."

    There were only two of them built. I doubt that would've changed much.

    As far as 4E bombers go, Germany couldn't really afford them.


    Last edited by etaepsilonk on Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:38 pm; edited 3 times in total

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:40 pm

    Werewolf wrote:

    The true spirit of British Empire lifed and died with this insane massmurder Churchill, but a spark has remained in the british


    You're calling churchill a mass murder? then what the heck was Stalin in your eyes?

    Churchill wasnt a mass murder he was an awesome and inspiring person.

    Stalin was the mass murder. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge

    Churchill:"I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat"

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:32 pm

    I think we have a troll here.

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  TR1 on Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:46 pm

    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:

    The true spirit of British Empire lifed and died with this insane massmurder Churchill, but a spark has remained in the british


    You're calling churchill a mass murder? then what the heck was Stalin in your eyes?

    Churchill wasnt a mass murder he was an awesome and inspiring person.

    Stalin was the mass murder.      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge

    Churchill:"I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat"

    Stalin was a mass murder, but Churchill (while not even close to Stalin) was no cookie himself.

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:55 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    I hear much people about russia in ww2 and let me tell you something russia sucked in ww2 one third had a rifle and two third were dead before even seeing the germans the russians didnt had advanced tactics like the US did, they sended their soldiers in hell knowing that two third would die, because the germans were better equiped and were better in fighting.

    Hahahaha... yeah strategic bombing and D day won WWII right?

    The SOVIETS were pushed back to Moscow in 1941 just like all of western Europe was defeated by much the same German force and was either defeated or ran across the English Channel and hid till 1944 when the Germans had been defeated on the ground and in the air.

    The US entered the European Front with WWI tactics like everyone else bar Germany. All the allies fought hard and learned harsh lessons rapidly.

    Case in point the standard US tank was the Sherman which was mediocre in almost every respect except numbers produced and was totally inferior to the T-34 even though the T-34 entered service years before.

    They sent their soldiers to fight the Germans because they had no English Channel to hide behind... the german policy of extermination in the East was nothing like their policy in the west and gave those on the eastern front little real choice but to fight.

    Only at very critical times was there any shortage of weapons... at Stalingrad they rushed forward  several units before they were fully equipped but even then the numbers were more like one in ten didn't have a rifle. Stalingrad was a trap... if every second man went into combat with no rifle how the hell could they arm the troops that formed the encirclement?

    Your understanding of the Eastern front is pathetic... I suggest you stop watching "Enemy at the gates" and start reading some properly researched books on the subject.

    Russia didnt won that war because of fighting skills.

    Suggest you look up and read about an operation called operation bagration... it did to the german forces what the german forces were doing to everyone before Christmas 1941.

    They won the war because of their huge numbers about 9 million russians died thats just insane and almost twice as much as the germans and remember the germans fought a war on very much fronts and the russian fought at ONE front.

    They fought a war western europe gave up on. They learned some very hard lessons and they largely fought alone against the most powerful army and airforce in europe.

    Remember the west chose not to mount the D Day Landings because they feared high casualties... the brits lost something like 3/4ths of a million and the Yanks lost 1/4 of a million... they clearly were happy to let the Soviets to the fighting and the dying for them.

    The German invasion of the Soviet union was about the acquisition of land... they didn't need the people... it was a war of extermination and that was reflected in the death toll.

    Yes for us western europeans d-day and strategic bombing won ww2 yeah.
    A war western europe gave up on????? Are you kidding me? Western europe never gave up on the war they always keeped fighting and fighting what about the war in africa the soviets didnt fought on that front at all except for the invasion of Iran!

    If d-day failed more of europe would be communism and communism is the baddest thing on earth!

    Soviets dying and fighting for the west??? NEVER!!!! Where do you base that story on?

    If the allies didnt won d day the germans would have aimed all of their arrows on the soviets and believe me then the us would've had Berlin.


    Sorry man on this topic i cant agree with you.

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:55 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:

    The true spirit of British Empire lifed and died with this insane massmurder Churchill, but a spark has remained in the british


    You're calling churchill a mass murder? then what the heck was Stalin in your eyes?

    Churchill wasnt a mass murder he was an awesome and inspiring person.

    Stalin was the mass murder.      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge

    Churchill:"I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat"

    Stalin was a mass murder, but Churchill (while not even close to Stalin) was no cookie himself.

    True

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:50 am

    Churchill no Massmurder?
    Excuse me?

    During World War 2 there was not a single Allied Force without an insane disgusting leader who killed millions.

    Not one of them made decisions based on soley of the good of the people.

    Churchill wrote in a letter to Stalin "I don't have a war with Hitler, i have a war with Germany"

    In New York Times 1938 Roosevelt used same words as Churchill "Germany has to be destroyed once and for all time"

    He was a disgusting British Empire sympatisant and also loved the methods and disgusting maxims of the British Empire.

    Dresden and Stutgart, no military value but in first hours the cities were already destroyed beyond 80% of the infrastructure and its buildings, nothing was spared.

    Americans also didn't take usually POW's. Eisenhower a jew who hated germans intentionly killed about 1.7 mln. German POW's, but still the West is keeping big secret about mass murders of the West, no majority of them gets even "Peace Nobel Prizes".

    http://www.rense.com/general46/germ.htm

    UK did also not take lot of prisoners and also more than 1.4 mln germans on british fronts are still missing and also reported to be victims of bigger war crimes.

    And since the West just loves to make the Soviet Union and Russia to big monsters who are haters of life, for the record the death rate of german POW's in russian camps was the lowest of all Allied Forces!!!

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    Russia compared to

    Post  Pugnax on Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:27 am

    Werewolf there is a book titled "Other Losses" which deals with allied war crimes against German POWS,largely blaming the post war French.Allied atrocities are conveniently swept under the table and this book receives little notice or praise.A friend of mine(Herman Grafs nephew) was captured shortly after the battle of the bulge,his RAD was about to be activated as conscript replacements,of the 50 boys(aged 15 or younger) with him the americans shot 34 outright.Malmedy aside shooting junior teens who were carrying shovels cannot be seen as good soldierly conduct.Even in victory the western allies were reluctant to show the clemency espoused by the press.

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:48 am

    About outnumbered airforce, I remind you, that in 41, and 42, Soviet VVS was significantly outnumbering Luftwaffe, and got their asses handed to them... twice.

    Really?

    Because German claims... verified by Soviet reports, of the Germans destroying thousands of Soviet aircraft... many sitting uncamouflaged at their forward air fields suggest that the numerical superiority of the Soviet Air Force didn't last the first week of the German attack on the Soviet Union.

    The only saving grace was that most were destroyed on the ground so the loss of pilots was not that heavy, and of course most of the aircraft destroyed were obsolete types.

    Only in 43 , with addition of more modern fighters and better training, Soviet pilots actually began to fight back seriously.

    Of course... in 1941 the Soviet pilots were only playing for fun and giggles, it was only in 1943 they got serious.

    I would suggest that from day one the Soviet pilots were serious and the superior experience of the German pilots fresh from wiping out the air forces of Europe bar the Royal air force is actually what caused such losses and defeats.

    Having most of your planes destroyed also makes fighting the enemy a little one sided as well.

    By 43 training and aircraft quality and tactics had improved but it is not like there were no victories in the air before 1943. Not all Soviet aces flew from 1943 onwards.

    There were at least 3 main battles, which broke the Germans: Moscow, Stalingrad, Kursk, NONE of them involved "Elephant killing ants in the millions", like you say.

    WHAT?

    How many Soviet soldiers and pilots and even sailors died in each of these battles? It wasn't millions by any chance?

    The German elephant walked away from Moscow largely uneffected... more embarrassed than anything really, but Stalingrad was a more serious blow and Kursk was the killing blow from which they didn't recover.

    Kursk was the Soviets beating the Germans in open combat... previously the Soviets succeeded by luring the Germans into a city and grinding them, Kursk was the Soviets fighting the Germans in their ideal mobile style of land warfare... and beating them at it.

    Early in the war, Luftwaffe was the most powerful airforce IN THE WORLD

    It lacked range and independence from the Army.

    No four engined bombers because it was optimised to support its army.

    When the Army was not there it failed.

    If we compare militaries of Germany, and her foes, we can clearly see, that allies weren't ready ONLY in the air. On the ground, they were prepared pretty well...

    How many weeks did it take for Germany to reach the English channel?

    the only serious threat to Germany in western europe was the UK and France and France relied on the Maginot line to give it time and allies.

    they assumed the maginot line would force Germany to either take months or years punching through the fortified line... which meant plenty of time for mobilisation, or it would attack through the low countries which meant time and lots of allies created on the way.

    We now know the Germans prepared rather better than France expected and that the Low countries capitulated rather than fight which left them very little time to prepare their forces to repel the attack.

    No, it isn't. LA-5FN was introduced in 43, then war was far from decided....

    The war was decided at Kursk, where the German forces had all the time they needed to prepare, they got their super tanks into position, and failed in the type of combat they prefer.


    There were only two of them built. I doubt that would've changed much.

    They had several different types and a fairly large program to build them. Each of the 2 heavy gustavs needed the equivalent of a crew of a large battleship to set up... and there were plenty of other siege guns they developed and built at signficant cost.

    they might have built a few thousand more fighter planes, or some long range bombers that could reach the urals...

    As far as 4E bombers go, Germany couldn't really afford them.

    The Soviets and British could both afford to develop and build 4 engine bombers... Germany could easily afford such things, but their Air Force had little political power.

    [quyote]Churchill:"I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat" [/quote]

    "History will look favourably upon me for I intend to write it myself..."

    A war western europe gave up on????? Are you kidding me?

    They surrendered... except for the UK.

    Western europe never gave up on the war they always keeped fighting and fighting what about the war in africa the soviets didnt fought on that front at all except for the invasion of Iran!

    Western Europe fought in africa?

    The UK did, with its commonwealth allies, but how many European countries sent units apart from units in exile. The US sent more forces to Africa than Europe did... unless you count the German and Italian forces.

    If d-day failed more of europe would be communism and communism is the baddest thing on earth!

    If D Day was launched in 1942 then there wouldn't have been a Warsaw Pact and the western allies could have liberated Poland... the thing is they weren't prepared to pay the cost in lives... they would much rather let the Soviets and Germans kill each other on the Eastern Front.

    Perhaps if the west had shown some stones earlier Stalin might have been rather more flexible. As it was he knew the Soviets bore the brunt of the ground fighting and therefore had rather higher expectations of the spoils and results.

    Soviets dying and fighting for the west??? NEVER!!!! Where do you base that story on?

    it was the eastern front that defeated the Germany army... not the bombing of german women and children and old men in their homes.

    If the allies didnt won d day the germans would have aimed all of their arrows on the soviets and believe me then the us would've had Berlin.

    D-day went ahead because the western powers feared Stalin taking all of Germany and perhaps parts of western europe.

    ]He was a disgusting British Empire sympatisant and also loved the methods and disgusting maxims of the British Empire.

    Just look at the Boer war... their scorched earth policy resulted in the deaths of mainly children in concentration camps (They invented that concept/tool: concentration camp BTW).


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    russia compared to

    Post  Pugnax on Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:02 am

    As per the above friend,Herman Graf openly told his junior pilots to avoid the Yak9D wherever possible.This aircraft with its supercharged engine scared the Luftwaffe.Comparable to a P-51-D,it is credited with victories over the Mustang when allied pilots"accidentally" attacked Soviet aircraft.

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:40 am

    GarryB wrote:
    He was a disgusting British Empire sympatisant and also loved the methods and disgusting maxims of the British Empire.

    Just look at the Boer war... their scorched earth policy resulted in the deaths of mainly children in concentration camps (They invented that concept/tool: concentration camp BTW).

    Which is why history books many times devolve into his-story-books. One of the greatest victories in the history of the British Empire is that they largely and successfully downplayed the countless crimes against humanity the British Empire caused through out world history, and their crimes are on par if not greater than those caused by Fascism and Communism. Everywhere the British went they committed genocide, whether it's North America, South Africa, or South Asia. They were the greatest profiteers of the transatlantic slave trade, Barclay's Bank has it's legacy in slavery. WW1 & 2 were caused by their persistence on destroying any kind of rival power in mainland Europe, that was the cause of WW1 and through that war we got WW2. David Urqhardt of the British Foreign Office was one of the earliest patrons of Karl Marx; Marx used Urquhardt's newspaper as a speaking tube, so if people don't like the spread of communism then Urquhardt is largely to blame. They became allies because both were noted to have Russophobic beliefs. What about fascism? Did the empire play a role in creating that? Apparently Mussolini was at one time an agent of MI5, so in one way or another the empire had an significant influence on the rise of Fascism:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/oct/13/benito-mussolini-recruited-mi5-italy

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:58 am

    it was the eastern front that defeated the Germany army... not the bombing of german women and children and old men in their homes.

    Without the US the soviets wouldnt won the war the US gave the soviets so mich resources to win the war, because of that they later won the war.


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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:29 am

    Yeah... that is right... D-Day, Strategic Bombing and Lend Lease won the war...  Rolling Eyes 

    Except that Lend Lease for the Soviets was only approved in August of 1941 and nothing of value actually arrived before the Soviets pushed the Germans back from Moscow in December 1941.

    The main value of Lend Lease was shown in Operation Bagration in 1944... well after a clear winner had already been decided.

    Lend Lease was useful, but to say Lend lease won the war is like saying Japan won Desert Storm because they contributed a lot of money to that campaign.

    The US sending material to the Soviets so the Soviets could fight the Germans for the west was the least they could do.


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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:30 am

    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    it was the eastern front that defeated the Germany army... not the bombing of german women and children and old men in their homes.

    Without the US the soviets wouldnt won the war the US gave the soviets so mich resources to win the war, because of that they later won the war.


    Man, stop talking out of your ass.


    It is damn clear you have an amateur, typical Western influenced history of the war in your head.

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:35 am

    And About that bombing story.
    You're Talking like the Western allies were the bad guys but the soviets were the ones that raped and killed thousands of women in Berlin and they killed very Much men.

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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:43 am

    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    it was the eastern front that defeated the Germany army... not the bombing of german women and children and old men in their homes.

    Without the US the soviets wouldnt won the war the US gave the soviets so mich resources to win the war, because of that they later won the war.


    So much bullshit in one comment.

    Without the US Soviets would have won much earlier than 1945!!!

    Soviets won the war DESPITE that USA and UK sold resources to Germany along with all Allied Forces.
    USA was very happy to getting rich from dead germans and soviets while own troops could saftley swing their balls in their own homeland.

    Through the mid 30's to the last day of the WW2 in 1945 USA supplied Germany constantly with oil,resources for military purposes.

    http://libcom.org/library/allied-multinationals-supply-nazi-germany-world-war-2


    From the "Trading With the Enemy" cover blurb; "Here is the extraordinary true story of the American businessmen and government officials who dealt with the Nazis for profit or through conviction throughout the Second World War: Ford. Standard Oil, Chase Bank and members of the State Department were among those who shared in the spoils. Meticulously documented and dispassionately told, this is an alarming story. At its centre is 'The Fraternity', an influential international group associated with the [b]Rockefeller or Morgan banks[/b] and linked by the ideology of Business as Usual. wrote:

    But that is only one of the cases detailed in this book. [b]We have Standard Oil shipping enemy fuel through Switzerland for the Nazi occupation forces in France[/b]; [b]Ford trucks transporting German troops[/b]; [b]I.T.T. helping supply the rocket bombs that marauded much of London [/b]; and [b]I.T.T. building the Focke-Wulfs[/b] that [b]dropped those bombs[/b]. Long and shocking is the list of diplomats and businessmen alike who had their own ways of profiting from the war." wrote:

    Yes, without US supplies and D-Day the poor Soviets wouldn't have won.

    The Soviets were the one who won the entire war, over 80% of all destroyed and defeated Wehrmacht soldiers died on the eastern front, the war was desided before any Allied forces opened a western front!

    But civilians are the first priority target of US and UK bombers, you won nothing but war of lies about massmurders as leaders who glorified themselfs as philanthropists.

    Flyingdutchman
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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:00 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    it was the eastern front that defeated the Germany army... not the bombing of german women and children and old men in their homes.

    Without the US the soviets wouldnt won the war the US gave the soviets so mich resources to win the war, because of that they later won the war.


    So much bullshit in one comment.

    Without the US Soviets would have won much earlier than 1945!!!

    Soviets won the war DESPITE that USA and UK sold resources to Germany along with all Allied Forces.
    USA was very happy to getting rich from dead germans and soviets while own troops could saftley swing their balls in their own homeland.

    Through the mid 30's to the last day of the WW2 in 1945 USA supplied Germany constantly with oil,resources for military purposes.

    http://libcom.org/library/allied-multinationals-supply-nazi-germany-world-war-2


    From the "Trading With the Enemy" cover blurb;  "Here is the extraordinary true story of the American businessmen and government officials who dealt with the Nazis for profit or through conviction throughout the Second World War: Ford. Standard Oil, Chase Bank and members of the State Department were among those who shared in the spoils. Meticulously documented and dispassionately told, this is an alarming story. At its centre is 'The Fraternity', an influential international group associated with the [b]Rockefeller or Morgan banks[/b] and linked by the ideology of Business as Usual. wrote:

    But that is only one of the cases detailed in this book. [b]We have Standard Oil shipping enemy fuel through Switzerland for the Nazi occupation forces in France[/b]; [b]Ford trucks transporting German troops[/b]; [b]I.T.T. helping supply the rocket bombs that marauded much of London [/b]; and [b]I.T.T. building the Focke-Wulfs[/b] that [b]dropped those bombs[/b]. Long and shocking is the list of diplomats and businessmen alike who had their own ways of profiting from the war." wrote:

    Yes, without US supplies and D-Day the poor Soviets wouldn't have won.

    The Soviets were the one who won the entire war, over 80% of all destroyed and defeated Wehrmacht soldiers died on the eastern front, the war was desided before any Allied forces opened a western front!

    But civilians are the first priority target of US and UK bombers, you won nothing but war of lies about massmurders as leaders who glorified themselfs as philanthropists.

    Without the US the soviets wouldnt won Much earlier because then the germans could have concentrade all of their troops to the eastern front and if the germans focussed everything they got on the eastern front the soviets would've been doomed

    TR1
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    Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:18 am

    Flyingdutchman wrote:And About that bombing story.
    You're Talking like the Western allies were the bad guys but the soviets were the ones that raped and killed thousands of women in Berlin and they killed very Much men.

    Yes, they should have given them candy and soda pop.


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